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Le Winner Tales It All - England vs France

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 30 Nov 2020, 6:58 am

First topic message reminder :

The Guardian throws up some interesting points of discussion that have been touched upon already elsewhere. The positives first are that there will be 2000 fans in the stadium at the weekend:plenty of room to spread out but an important step back to normality. It also allows england the chance on some revenge for the 6 nations defeat and to lift some silverware. Despite overall feeling we've missed the chance to create depth in some key areas I think Jones has used these games pretty well. Genge has had some good performances, itoje and Launchbury have to me shown they can work effectively together, Willis and Earl have mins on the pitch, Lawrence looks set for a good career. Hell even if I dont think it's worked Joseph has proved he can cover wing (played there previously for england I know) though hopefully only for emergencies and we know conclusively Furbank isnt good enough.

That leads onto the negative. The balance between club and country has led France to agree to only play players 3 times over the course of these matches. It leave the final now a bit of an imbalance as France for some reason prioritised games over england meaning guys like Dupont and Vakatawa are unavailable. Perhaps they figured may as well let the media hype of 'France are back' reign on rather than risk a massacre at Twickenham. Its shame for the fans (and Amazon the poor multi billion company) but I'm looking forward to it anyway. There will still be fireworks from them I'm sure and in guys like Woki they certainly have quality. That guy could be box office, loads of potential with a slight question on his fitness to perform for 80 mins for me.

I suspect that Jones will go for a very strong team again but while his favourite phrase will be we've picked the strongest 23 it clearly leaves room for tinkering. I have a slight feeling that this may be the match he throws Malins a start.

Expecting a great game tbh. England have stuttered so far but easily been on top throughout their matches. Surely this is the game targeted from the off? Allez les rosbifs.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:48 pm

Do people like Englands current tactics?

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Post by Scottrf Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:49 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Brilliant. Deserved to win overall but great come back. Well done. Go on and win it.

Really? England have been average enough too.

England have blown a lot of chances but pretty sure they have dominated territory and chances.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:49 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Brilliant. Deserved to win overall but great come back. Well done. Go on and win it.

Really? England have been average enough too.

Did you see France in the 2and half?

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:51 pm

Drop goal time?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:51 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Do people like Englands current tactics?

No

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:52 pm

Shh, respect the kicker boys

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Post by Collapse2005 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:52 pm

Reffed out of it, that should have been a penalty for France.

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Post by tigertattie Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:53 pm

No one wants to win this
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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:53 pm

Dear me.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:54 pm

England dont deserve to win this at all, very poor performance.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:55 pm

England have played abysmally. Those two errors from Farrell and Vunipola sum it up perfectly. Basics.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:55 pm

Well place kicking has clearly cost us. Should have easily won and you've got to question the captain being the kicker as well.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:55 pm

England moved Billy to blindside and Curry to 8, to counter the France backs. Never seen that before from them with Billy and Curry on the pitch.

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Post by tigertattie Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:58 pm

This isn’t a game where a team wins. It’s a game where someone is going to lose
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Post by king_carlos Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:59 pm

Macalou is some player.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:59 pm

Awful by the ref. Taken in the air surely.

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Post by tigertattie Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:59 pm

Anyone else want to fight over this comb with me?
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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:02 pm

Eddie looks nice today.

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Post by Yoda Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:02 pm

Why didnt Ford kick that last pen?

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Post by lostinwales Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:02 pm

Ref never shouts 'use it' at the French

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:02 pm

Mindless play.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:03 pm

Penalty-shootout? Good grief.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:05 pm

Needs a flash of brilliance. France have the advantage surely in the kick off. Not sure this goes with experience give none have them will have done this before.


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Post by tigertattie Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:05 pm

Big gift for England there
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Post by king_carlos Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:06 pm

tigertattie wrote:Big gift for England there
The missed knock ons from Faz and Billy in the build up to the final try as well as that from Macalou. If boot were on the other foot I'd be pretty miffed.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:09 pm

Has Tom Curry got the Ireland shirt on ..

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Post by Collapse2005 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:10 pm

king_carlos wrote:
tigertattie wrote:Big gift for England there
The missed knock ons from Faz and Billy in the build up to the final try as well as that from Macalou. If boot were on the other foot I'd be pretty miffed.

Agreed, France reffed out of it today.

Well done to England but not that impressive really especially as they played their big games at home.


Last edited by Collapse2005 on Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Cyril Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:10 pm

Never in doubt! Woo-hoo!

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:10 pm

Well that was hard work but well done England.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:10 pm

So England scrape a win thanks to some beneficial refereeing decisions. Against the French third team, at home, with a near-full strength line-up.

Play like that against the real France at the Six Nations and England will be demolished.

Jones needs to sort it out with a tactical adjustment that allows quality backs like May and Watson chances to influence the game.


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Post by lostinwales Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:11 pm

Right MoM. Him or Jailbert

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:11 pm

Well done. Well deserved. Surely lessons learned.

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Post by Cyril Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:11 pm

Bad luck Germs Smile

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:11 pm

England win...

But the future of French rugby is extremely healthy...

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Post by Yoda Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:12 pm

We showed some minerals there but we always make it difficult for ourselves. Don't feel like celebrating too much.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:12 pm

lostinwales wrote:Right MoM. Him or Jailbert
Dulin for me. I thought he was excellent.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:13 pm

Cyril wrote:Never in doubt! Woo-hoo!

I wouldnt celebrate a draw and a loss v France if I was you. They got the better of England in 2020.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:13 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
tigertattie wrote:Big gift for England there
The missed knock ons from Faz and Billy in the build up to the final try as well as that from Macalou. If boot were on the other foot I'd be pretty miffed.

Agreed, France reffed out of it today.

Well done to England but not that impressive really especially as they played their big games at home.

Lol

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Post by lostinwales Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:13 pm

Duty281 wrote:So England scrape a win thanks to some beneficial refereeing decisions. Against the French third team, at home, with a near-full strength line-up.

Play like that against the real France at the Six Nations and England will be demolished.

Jones needs to sort it out. Tactics that allow quality backs like May and Watson chances to influence the game.

Nope. France played with more freedom but did run out of energy. Very bright future. England attack still feels blunt but they are immensly strong everywhere else.

Had Farrell made his kicks this would not have been as close.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:13 pm

What a game to win. Well played England. clap clap clap

Very very hard luck France. You really turned the pressure on and played a cracking game.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:14 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Cyril wrote:Never in doubt! Woo-hoo!

I wouldnt celebrate a draw and a loss v France if I was you. They got the better of England in 2020.

Lol again.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:14 pm

If you seal off all game the referee will start to go against you.

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Post by Scottrf Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:15 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:England win...

But the future of French rugby is extremely healthy...

They’ve always had the ability to find good rugby from nowhere. Let’s not forget that they are always extremely competent at blowing it too.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:15 pm

Huge difference when Robson was brought on and that for once isnt purely a slightly on youngs who was average again but a return to 2016 when the bench made a real impact.

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Post by Scottrf Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:16 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Cyril wrote:Never in doubt! Woo-hoo!

I wouldnt celebrate a draw and a loss v France if I was you. They got the better of England in 2020.
England won the two tournaments they were both involved in. That’s what counts.

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:17 pm

That France team should be fairly happy. England not so much (!)

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:18 pm

doctor_grey wrote:That France team should be fairly happy. England not so much (!)

France will take heart. England will take the trophy.


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Post by GeordieFalcon Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:19 pm

Scottrf wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:England win...

But the future of French rugby is extremely healthy...

They’ve always had the ability to find good rugby from nowhere. Let’s not forget that they are always extremely competent at blowing it too.
Under Edwards they will not be so up and diwn..they'll be drilled in defence.

Add in the talent...they'll be a,big one for the world cup

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Post by Duty281 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:21 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Duty281 wrote:So England scrape a win thanks to some beneficial refereeing decisions. Against the French third team, at home, with a near-full strength line-up.

Play like that against the real France at the Six Nations and England will be demolished.

Jones needs to sort it out. Tactics that allow quality backs like May and Watson chances to influence the game.

Nope. France played with more freedom but did run out of energy. Very bright future. England attack still feels blunt but they are immensly strong everywhere else.

Had Farrell made his kicks this would not have been as close.

England's attack is blunt because they choose to kick the majority of the time. Retro rugby. They have some fantastic attacking talents in the backs, but would prefer to play a safety-first game, even at home against the French thirds.

If Farrell had made his kicks, England would have still only won by a few points. Point is, Farrell shouldn't have been attempting so many 3-pointers, as England should have been imposing themselves on the opposition, given the experience and quality gap, with a more attacking game and going for the corner.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:23 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Cyril wrote:Never in doubt! Woo-hoo!

I wouldnt celebrate a draw and a loss v France if I was you. They got the better of England in 2020.
England won the two tournaments they were both involved in. That’s what counts.

Could they have been any more boring though? They kicked the ball and fished for penalties and KOs all game long. Snore...

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