Ulster Rugby 2022/2023

First topic message reminder :

Thought it was time for an update on the thread so this is the new all things Ulster thread.

Shanahan I understand.

With both Doak and MacDonald away we will need him and he needs game time.

Also the Emerging Ireland team was selected in negotiations with the Provinces to make sure they would not be short.

On that basis I would suggest Cooney is in cotton wall to make sure he can play the games during the Emerging Ireland tour - 2 games.

Also most of the Ulster boys will join up with the team after the tour for the two SA fixtures

Rough opening 20 minutes but once Ulster settled they played some good stuff.

Big credit to Stewart who came back from a wobbly start with the darts to put in a MOTM performance

Stockdale was good, came looking for work, looks really up for this season

Stu McCloskey showing a touch of class to get us going setting up Marshall for the first try.

5 points secured, a good first night

Ulster: Michael Lowry; Aaron Sexton, Luke Marshall, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, John Cooney; Andy Warwick, Rob Herring, Marty Moore, Alan O'Connor (capt), Kieran Treadwell, Matty Rea, Marcus Rea, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: Declan Moore, Eric O'Sullivan, Tom O'Toole, Sam Carter, Sean Reffell, Dave Shanahan, Angus Curtis, Craig Gilroy.

Aaron Sexton starts

Seeing a 94 point rugby match you might think the defences were crap but I think a lot of it was down to some very good handling; it looked like a nice dry day. Highlight for me after two matches is the return of Luke Marshall, great in both attack and defence and seems to have a good understanding of what Stu is doing and knows how to support. If he doesn't get injured (I know that's a big "if") Hume could have his work cut out to get his place back. Lowry's spark of course is no discovery but was great fun to watch. Not sure what we'll do next weekend if Leinster want their shirts back.

Yea, agreed - Marshall has been great. Less flashy than McCloskey but partners with him really well. Hume probably still has the edge, but it's great to see the competition. Even if Ireland do see sense, they can't take Hume , McCloskey AND Marshall. If they continue to ignore Stu's talent, it will be great to have Marshall and McCloskey while internationals are away.

Stewart Moore is a great talent too, but I do think he will be looked at more at 15 going forward.

Addison returning from injury is no longer that important for us. If he does, great, if he doesn't... meh.

Everything looks great for us in the backline - apart from 10 which continues to be a concern in terms of depth and future options. Who did we sign at 10 again, an Irish fella? Having a mind blank here.

And yet, in the first two games we didn't have an out and out 10 option on the bench.

Actually - some interesting info - Ulster have updated their squad list on their website and the allocated positions are very curious.

Jake Flannery - Fly-half
Angus Curtis - Fly-half/Centre
Ian Madigan - Fly-half
Mike Lowry - Fly-half ( )

Only players who are down as full-back are McIlroy, Sexton and Shea O'Brien.
And yet I'm pretty sure 3/4 other players would be played at full-back ahead of those guys. A bit odd.

I wonder if it's partly to do with IRFU and what positions we claim to have covered, or not covered etc.

When does Vermeulen's contract run till? Is it this year? If so will Ulster look overseas for a No8 to join after the World Cup?

2023 Duane's contract runs to, I suppose it will depend on what other overseas players they go for, there had been rumours of Kitschoff joining after RWC. Carter contract is up this year so you would assume he would go which would leave them NIQ free and with the options to go after NIQ players. I'd imagine with recovery from Covid that salary would have to be the right fit too.

Rumours linkimg Ulster to Rory Sutherland, may make sense for both parties, as premiership teams have done their salary cap for this seasoneither one year and see what Premiership team what him and Ulster get in Kitschoff, or maybe just sign him and the SRU pay part of his wages and have player release like they did Danalli?

neilthom7 wrote:2023 Duane's contract runs to, I suppose it will depend on what other overseas players they go for, there had been rumours of Kitschoff joining after RWC.  Carter contract is up this year so you would assume he would go which would leave them NIQ free and with the options to go after NIQ players.  I'd imagine with recovery from Covid that salary would have to be the right fit too.

What about Toomaga-Allen - how long is his contract?

Sorry forgot about him, thats a 1 year deal so he will also be gone in Summer, presuming they don't renew any of those ones of course, although I doubt they would.

Team for Leinster

(15-9): Michael Lowry, Aaron Sexton, Luke Marshall, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, John Cooney;

(1-8): Andy Warwick, Rob Herring, Tom O’Toole, Alan O’Connor (Captain), Kieran Treadwell, Matty Rea, Marcus Rea, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: John Andrew, Eric O’Sullivan, Marty Moore, Sam Carter, Greg Jones, David Shanahan, Angus Curtis, Ben Moxham.

neilthom7 wrote:Team for Leinster

(15-9): Michael Lowry, Aaron Sexton, Luke Marshall, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, John Cooney;

(1-8): Andy Warwick, Rob Herring, Tom O’Toole, Alan O’Connor (Captain), Kieran Treadwell, Matty Rea, Marcus Rea, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: John Andrew, Eric O’Sullivan, Marty Moore, Sam Carter, Greg Jones, David Shanahan, Angus Curtis, Ben Moxham.

Leinster are out for revenge but it's Ravers so not a chance

Leinster Rugby (caps in brackets):

15. Jimmy O’Brien (54)
14. Jordan Larmour (75)
13. Garry Ringrose (103) CAPTAIN
12. Robbie Henshaw (69)
11. Dave Kearney (175)
10. Ross Byrne (130)
9. Luke McGrath (177)
1. Andrew Porter (92)
2. Dan Sheehan (30)
3. Michael Ala’alatoa (27)
4. Ross Molony (141)
5. Jason Jenkins (2)
6. Ryan Baird (39)
7. Josh van der Flier (115)
8. Jack Conan (117)

16. Rónan Kelleher (38)
17. Ed Byrne (87)
18. Vakhtang Abdaladze (18)
19. James Ryan (58)
20. Will Connors (27)
21. Nick McCarthy (47)
22. Johnny Sexton (184)
23. Charlie Ngatai (2)

Not too unhappy with that team. Warwick, O'Toole, O'Sullivan and Moore should be ok in the front row. If Treadwell can avoid getting carded, he and O'Connor can do a decent job. In the back row Marcus will be looking for turnovers, Timoney will get through a lot of work and Matty will probably drop the ball and lose us posession. If we can get a fair share of the ball I'm looking forward to seeing our backline. I think they could really cause Leinster some problems. In defence our wingers worry me. We might find out if Sexton knows how to defend this weekend. Unfortunately we already know about Stockdale's shortcomings in that department.
Still, should be a good match although I fear Leinster will be looking to set the record straight after their defeats last season.

Sorry Ulster fans, that has to be one of the worst backrows in club rugby. Do you have guys away with emerging Ireland or something?

Marcus Rea and Nick Timoney are fine in there but Matty Rea has shown me very little as to why he is there.

David McCann is away with emerging Ireland, Vermuelen is with South Africa, Jordi Murphy is either injured or they have decided he is not good enough to make the team anymore. Reffell, I don't know about, he looked good in pre-season but hasn't really featured yet for whatever reason.

Matty Rae, 6th overall in the league for carries, 4th for successful carries and 15 tackles made none missed. Maybe we are being to harsh on him and he is a good carrier?

neilthom7 wrote:Marcus Rea and Nick Timoney are fine in there but Matty Rea has shown me very little as to why he is there.

David McCann is away with emerging Ireland, Vermuelen is with South Africa, Jordi Murphy is either injured or they have decided he is not good enough to make the team anymore.  Reffell, I don't know about, he looked good in pre-season but hasn't really featured yet for whatever reason.

Ah yes David McCann, I knew I was forgetting someone. I was a big fan of his at u20 level. This Emerging Ireland tour is a bit of a disgrace to be honest, given how it's affecting the provinces. Still these are the strongest squads for an Ulster v Leinster match that I can recall. Really looking forward to this one.

I love a good stat Kingshu but I just don't see it with Matty Rea, would be very happy to be wrong and witness his greatness come forth tomorrow night though.

I kind of get the point of that tour in that it gives guys time with Ireland coaches who have never been on a tour with them before but that's really about it. I'm not super mad about it but no doubt it hurts our squad depth a bit and I don't really think they needed the like of Baloucoune there tbh.

As for the game, we have an exciting backline in attack which I'm looking forward to. I do wonder if that backrow is going to be able to get anywhere near the Leinster back row and secure quick ball.

Also have to worry about the wide backs in defence, Sexton is a fantastic athlete, his speed really is something to see but he doesn't seem to have developed his positional sense yet and that's going to be really tested v Leinster

Lucked into a ticket for this match - looking forward to it. Ulster's to lose, I reckon. Don't think Leinster have enough in them this season to compete for silverware. Ulster look the best of the pick from the Irish provinces.

Pot Hale wrote:Lucked into a ticket for this match - looking forward to it.  Ulster's to lose, I reckon.  Don't think Leinster have enough in them this season to compete for silverware. Ulster look the best of the pick from the Irish provinces.

Ulster's to lose ?
I don't think so, I wouldn't even have us as favourites, Leinster being out for revenge and blood etc.

I do hope you're right though but we're missing Big Duane and Bobby, that could make all the difference when the margins are so tight. Fingers crossed though.

P.S. Bring your brolly, blowy and wet, the great levelers of mother nature.

Rumours that John Cooney may join up with the Scotland squad before the RWC

Think the Cooney rumour just started as someone working out that its possible given his Scottish granddad, and time since last Ireland Cap. Nothing more.

For this game i think when the benchs are emptied Leinster will take it. Just have better depth. If Ulster had Stewart, Izzy, McCann, Doak, Moore and McIlroy (Balacoune starting) to come of the bench instead of Andrew Sam Carter, Greg Jones, David Shanahan, Angus Curtis, Ben Moxham, then I think Ulster would have enough at home to win.

I've seen enough of the Aaron Sexton experiment to know it's not going anywhere. He cost us 14 points out there. Leinsters second try came from him taking a really stupid lineout in his own 22, getting turned over then try. Then on the disallowed Ulster try he had the simple finish and lost it, every 15 year old knows that you carry the ball on the outside arm in that situation.

Just generally his positioning is poor, hes running about like a headless chicken, also struggled under the high ball but given the conditions I can't be too harsh on him there. With Baloucoune we may very well win that game.

Which isn't to say we deserved to, Leinster played the conditions much better than Ulster and had a dominant scrum, they deserved the win.

On another note met some lovely Leinster fans at the game and had a good laugh, they travelled in great numbers for it, there was also one absolute plum a few rows in front but can't all be good lol

Yea, not a fan of Aaron Sexton. And if I hear about his 100m sprint time once more I’ll break something. A straight up foot race does not come up very often in top level rugby. It’s certainly not enough of an accolade to make up for other weaknesses.

Losing Stockdale didn’t help, nor did the conditions.

What’s happened MacDonald since the pre-season games? I despair when I see Shanahan come on. Perhaps I’m being unfair, but he’s the one player I just can’t see how he’s on a pro level contract never mind getting game time.

He’s away with emerging Ireland team as well as Doak.

McDonald is with emerging Ireland, Shanahan was poor but in McFs second season he actually became a very decent player, where you didnt cringe when he came on, had a bit of a dip again, but I'll give him credit that hes improved enough to be a solid player.

On Sexton that was his 2nd start, (1st only lasted 32mins) 6th overall for about 120mins total, to early to write him off, but I've never seen what the hype was about, the quick lineout was down to inexperience, the missed try was because he came to rugby late and has to learn what comes naturally to others. He is fast but he doesn't have the step to wrongfoot opponents to accelerate past them like Lowry or Lamour can, his decision making is poor, his ariel abitly not great, his positioning not great really needs to improve these areas this season or it could be over for him. Not sure why McF started him, Id have had Lyttle in. If only there was some tour going that he could earn that experience and skills, and we had an international winger playing?

Certainly would have benifited Balacoune more playing against a strong Leinster team in a top of the table interprovincial derby, than some 2nd division sides B team, and vice versa, Sexton would have benfited more being with the Irish coaches and earning experience, as that game may well have shaken his confidence, whereas he would have returned from SA a more experienced confident player.

The worst thing for Ulster is they kind of have to start Sexton next week now.

If they do think he can be something they cannot bench him next week or it will shoot his confidence entirely.

3 years or more he has been in academy/squad now, he should be further along than where he is.

Having said that I also appreciate thats a tough situation for him to come in against one of the best teams in Europe on a night like that. He is after all probably your 6th choice winger or something like that so it's a tough task even if he wasn't already years behind everyone else in development

i'm feeling fairly positive after that match. It looked at half-time that we might be in for a serious beating and in the end we weren't far away from winning it. As far as the Sexton debate goes, I actually thought he was looking a bit less lost than usual. Let's face it, a rainy night against Leinster is a tough one for even the best so I would cut him some slack there. He's getting a lot of stick for the quick throw-in but I thought at the time. and still do that the receiver could have yelled "No".

The receiver could have done that I agree, but the receiver also shouldn't have had to shout No at him he should know not to do that.

I was sitting up the other end but the moment it went out and he got a hold of it I could tell he was going to do it, I was actually saying 'don't do it' out loud.

The handling errors and alike I can forgive because it was a brutal night, I wouldn't blame anyone for those.

The bigger concern is the basic errors, his poor positioning and not having any rugby brain at the moment. Now he is several years behind everyone else in that regard which I understand but he is also getting paid to play professional rugby so the tolerance for it is a lot less than if it where at say a local rugby club

In general though I am relatively positive about the team, I have a feeling the way they played during the 'dry' spells that had they not had that brutal weather and any of the regular wingers available Ulster would have won the game.

Leinster adapted much better to the conditions so there is some work to be done there in terms of recognising the impact of weather and alike. Also full credit to Leinster as there handling skills under high balls etc was actually very, very good for the conditions.

Re: Sexton. This is professional sport and a professional club that cannot carry passengers. Sexton was already in a position where he needed to warrant his inclusion in the club and he's been given a number of chances and has quite simply failed. He's barely a break glass option.
At this level a player shouldn't need a team mate to shout "NO" when you're taking a quick lineout in your own 22 when the team's under pressure. At schools level a winger knows to get the ball into the outside hand when finishing, Sexton doesn't even have that. Time for him to return to 7's, you simply cannot keep flogging a dead horse in this industry.

Bar that, I thought the side showed a lot of metal to get back into the game and gave Leinster at least a squeaky bum finish.

It was nice at the end to see Johnny Sexton showing real concern for Stockdale's injury, an injury that might well see him out for another spell on the sidelines. I hope what I've heard in regards to that is wrong.

On Sexton 120mins of rugby isnt enough to write him off, but I do have big concerns.

Anyway Sutherland was linked to Uster and Bath, can see they have confirmed 4 signings from Warriors, Sutherland wasn't among them, does that mean Bath didn't get him? A one season move to Ulster would make a lot of sense for both parties.

On Sexton, I am not writing him off just yet but he really needs to improve and quickly if he wants to stay, this is the year where he has to be taking the big step forward or stepping out.

On nicer news big Duane Vermuelen is back in training with Ulster. Sutherland would be excellent, I wonder would IRFU allow it to happen though?

neilthom7 wrote:On Sexton, I am not writing him off just yet but he really needs to improve and quickly if he wants to stay, this is the year where he has to be taking the big step forward or stepping out.

On nicer news big Duane Vermuelen is back in training with Ulster.  Sutherland would be excellent, I wonder would IRFU allow it to happen though?

If the request is submitted on a Munster Rugby headed letter, we may be.

Kingshu wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:On Sexton, I am not writing him off just yet but he really needs to improve and quickly if he wants to stay, this is the year where he has to be taking the big step forward or stepping out.

On nicer news big Duane Vermuelen is back in training with Ulster.  Sutherland would be excellent, I wonder would IRFU allow it to happen though?

If the request is submitted on a Munster Rugby headed letter, we may be.

theres red on both kits, just tell Nucifora that it's basically the same place, Kingspan is just another name for Thomond Park. He's Australian, shouldn't be that hard to convince

Kingshu wrote:On Sexton 120mins of rugby isnt enough to write him off, but I do have big concerns.

Anyway Sutherland was linked to Uster and Bath, can see they have confirmed 4 signings from Warriors, Sutherland wasn't among them, does that mean Bath didn't get him? A one season move to Ulster would make a lot of sense for both parties.

The thing is we've seen a lot more than 120 mins of Sexton and I've yet to see anything to say he's got what it takes for this level. He is out of his depth in the XV game where simply having speed isn't enough, not that we've seen his pace much.
I do hate to berate and I've never liked players being unduly criticised but this is professional sport and weak links cannot be given chance after chance after chance.

Anyway, enough of the negatives, even without a number of squad members who are on tour we're not too far off Leinster, we made them sweat at the end and the squad showed a lot of metal not to implode in the face of what was an intimidating scoreline. At half time. 17-3 down it takes real steel to fight your way back into contention, it'll serve us well going forward.

On sutherland, I can't the the IRFU allowing us to have him, we're Ulster after all. We should have Kitshoff coming next season plus another bit signing according to t'other forum's oracle.

Before the Leinster game he had only played 136mins for Ulster. I largely agree, he needs to improve quickly, as hasnt shown anything yet that he will be a good winger.

On the new signing, he says its a big signing hopefully its a big name, not big like Milasinovich

My take on players leaving and going - some rumours more substantial than others

Definite In - Kitshoff, ANother top quality player (either Lock or Backrow)
Possible In - Tom Willis (if Wasps go under - he is IQ)
Not coming In - Sutherland

Definite Out - Vermuelen, Carter, Milasinovich
Probably Out - Murphy, Cooney, Madigan
Possible Out - Gilroy, Lyttle, Morris

As to the various new guys - too early to tell but I think Reffell has impressed the coaches

I said weeks back Sexton doesn't have a rugby brain - nothing has changed my mind

Yeah i figured Ulster would be monitoring Tom Willis as IQ and tried to sign him a few seasons ago. Wonder if he comes would it be just one year or more

Interesting Geoff, perhaps Willis will have to rethink his initial refusal with the problems over the water. He's a mighty player and would be in with a good chance of inclusion in the Irish camp.
I do hope Cooney stays, he's regained his form and is a player we could be doing with both on and off the pitch. You couldn't blame him for leaving after the treatment from the Irish selectors (J.Sexton).

On another note, the youngsters etc. have impressed on the mini-tour. Flannery looked very good yesterday and scored a brilliant try with Beauden Barrett-like gap spotting and pace. Izzy was class and Doak of course was impressive. McDonald looks to be a very useful signing too. Perhaps we don't need Cooney after all

Sounds like you guys have picked up Rory Sutherland for the rest of the season until Kitshoff arrives.

Not a bad stand in who if he can keep himself fit, remains one of the best LHs in the league.

The problem is it's come from Bernard Jackman who has been known to get things a bit wrong at times. Hopefully Ulster Rugby confirm later on, he'd be a real boost to the pack.

Indeed KOTH who is usually very reliable was adamant he wasn't coming.
Having said that he is now questioning whether or not it is a loan
Bit weird as a loan from who?

Would only be to the end of next May so 8 months tops.

geoff999rugby wrote:Indeed KOTH who is usually very reliable was adamant he wasn't coming.
Having said that he is now questioning whether or not it is a loan
Bit weird as a loan from who?

Would only be to the end of next May so 8 months tops.

The articles I saw, Jackman and Jamie Lyall, both said to the end of the season.

I think for him, it is a holding deal until he gets a new contract sorted out for next year and onwards.

Probably works well for both parties.

Teams up for the weekend :

Ulster
15. Michael Lowry 14. Craig Gilroy 13. Luke Marshall 12. Stuart McCloskey 11. Rob Lyttle 10. Ian Madigan 9. John Cooney 1. Eric O’Sullivan 2. John Andrew 3. Marty Moore 4. Alan O’Connor (captain) 5. Sam Carter 6. Nick Timoney 7. Jordi Murphy 8. Duane Vermeulen
Replacements:16. Declan Moore 17. Andy Warwick 18. Tom O’Toole 19. Frank Bradshaw-Ryan 20. Marcus Rea 21. Dave Shanahan 22. Billy Burns 23. Aaron Sexton

Ospreys
15. Max Nagy 14. Luke Morgan 13. Owen Watkin 12. Michael Collins 11. Keelan Giles 10. Stephen Myler 9. Reuben Morgan Williams 1. Gareth Thomas 2. Dewi Lake 3. Tom Botha 4. Rhys Davies 5. Huw Sutton 6. Will Griffiths 7. Jac Morgan 8. Dan Lydiate (captain)
Replacements: 16. Scott Baldwin 17. Nicky Smith 18. Rhys Henry 19. Jack Regan 20. Morgan Morris 21. Rhys Webb 22. Jack Walsh 23. Joe Hawkins

I'm expecting a home win, and hoping for a bonus point, but also expecting Ospreys to keep it close.
So a blow out win then

Good to see Lyttle playing, I think he is somewhat undervalued. He's not going to make an international side, but I don't remember him letting Ulster down. Surprised to see Gilroy on the other wing, but I guess there will be squad rotation and everyone needs to get some game time.

Lyttle is IMO the most underated player at Ulster.


For me he is 4th in the wing ranking at Ulster behind

Stockdale
Balocoune
McIlroy

I'd have him above Gilroy, Moxon and Sexton any day of the week

He is also a very good goalkicker

Agree with that Geoff. With Stockdale and Baloucoune away with the international squad (my expectation) a McIlroy/Lyttle pairing on the wings is pretty tasty. And who is to say McIlroy couldn't step up to the international squad as well? So when you said above Lyttle could be leaving I was pretty disappointed. I suppose finances will come into it, and I don't really know the depth in the Academy, but loosing him would be a big shame.

He has scored some brilliant tries but remembering his complete mis-kick against the Dragons last year (in the teeth of a complete storm) still tickles me. Unfair, as he was otherwise great in terrible conditions, and reminds me of the Contemponi penalty against Connacht that got blown back over the bar.

Lyttle is excellent, had he been the one with Sextons try scoring chance last weekend he would no doubt have buried it. He perhaps is underrated as he has been a bit in and out of the side with injuries and alike but hopefully he can put that all behind him because he's a sensational finisher

My take on Lyttle is one of him, Gilroy, Sexton and Moxom will definitely be let go.
It could be two if Postlewaite comes through and Addison is fit.

Personally I would keep Lyttle and Moxom and it should be between Gilroy and Sexton to go
Not sure the management see it the same way

Lyttle is, I believe, getting frustrated at his lack of game time and I can't say I blame him.