SILLY SEASON TRANSFER RUMOURS 20/21

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mikey_dragon wrote:

y ddraig goch wrote:Jac Morgan is leaving the Scarlets for the Ospreys to go and learn his trade off Tipuric. Big loss for the Scarlets but makes sense with Dan Davies, Josh Macelod, and James Davies still on the books. Jac looks like a future Welsh international so it might be a good move for Wales in the long run with the Ospreys finally starting to live up to their potential with a return to the top level of Europe given the players on their books.

Davis and Davies aren’t that good, McCleod is very good but has awful luck with injuries lately. Scarlets’ supporters can’t see why Jac is being let go. Boyde was another good 7 that they let go.

Ospreys are a long way off their potential if last night is anything to go by.

He isn't 'being let go', he's apparently an Ospreys fan and wants to leave despite the offer on the table.
Considering the conditions, the young players in key positions, and the momentum killing refereeing performance (for both sides), Ospreys came out of it with a victory which is what they needed to help secure champions cup rugby next season.
I think it would be better to judge them as of next season when, if all the murmurs are to be believed, we will have a higher proportion of games played with full strength sides.

Wells and Green are good Premiership locks who I'm happy to have at Tigers. As a first choice partnership it doesn't really stack up to the best second row pairings in the league though.

Bristol - 4.Attwood 5.Vui
Exeter - 4.Gray 5.Hill
Sale - 4.J-L du Preez 5.Lood de Jager
Quins - 4.Lewies 5.Symons
Saints - 4.Ribbans 5.Lawes
Tigers - 4.Wells 5.Green
Bath - 4.McInally 5.Ewels
Wasps - 4.Launchbury 5.Stooke
Irish - 4.Coleman 5.Simmons
Falcons - 4.Fuser 5.Peterson
Gloucester - 4.Slater 5.Alemanno
Worcester - 4.Clegg 5.Kitchener
Sarries - 4.Itoje 5.Kpoku

In a few games this season our locks were noticeably outgunned and largely anonymous against those sides with really strong lock pairings. It's in no way a concern as big as I had over our back row for instance a couple of seasons back where we could hardly compete with the worst in the league let alone the best! It's just the area of our squad that I think we are most obviously lacking a touch compared to those we should now be trying to push past in the Prem table.

Starting XV isn't everything of course and I'm happy Tigers are building better depth. It's also great that we have more of the squad available all season.

Improving from 11th to Champions Cup qualification as rapidly as we have under Borthwick is excellent. To keep improving from here Tigers realistically need to be targeting being play-off contenders. I don't think it's realistic to say "I think Tigers should qualify for the play-offs this season". I do think we should be aiming to be locked into the top 6 and within touching distance of 4th place going into the final couple of rounds of the Prem season though.

i genuinely think this season could be a great one in terms of competition.

Even the lower table teams like ourselves and Worcester (to a degree) have really built strongly over the last season.

Whilst we wont win the league or make the top 4 by any means, we're capable of beating anyone, and we'll beat teams in games that will have an effect on the top of the table.

Going to be a fascinating season to watch...

It works out quite well in that the older heads of Wells and Green could work well with the young locks in good pairings.

Wells/Henderson
Martin/Green

Chessum could probably slot in alongside either Green or Wells though his ceiling isn't as high as the others he likes to carry and he's a very good lineout jumper.

GeordieFalcon wrote:i genuinely think this season could be a great one in terms of competition.

Even the lower table teams like ourselves and Worcester (to a degree) have really built strongly over the last season.

Whilst we wont win the league or make the top 4 by any means, we're capable of beating anyone, and we'll beat teams in games that will have an effect on the top of the table.  

Going to be a fascinating season to watch...

Outside of Worcester, I don't think there was much separating the teams outside the top 4. I think this season will be very hard to predict, especially in the early going.

king_carlos wrote:Wells and Green are good Premiership locks who I'm happy to have at Tigers. As a first choice partnership it doesn't really stack up to the best second row pairings in the league though.

Bristol - 4.Attwood 5.Vui
Exeter - 4.Gray 5.Hill
Sale - 4.J-L du Preez 5.Lood de Jager
Quins - 4.Lewies 5.Symons
Saints - 4.Ribbans 5.Lawes
Tigers - 4.Wells 5.Green
Bath - 4.McInally 5.Ewels
Wasps - 4.Launchbury 5.Stooke
Irish - 4.Coleman 5.Simmons
Falcons - 4.Fuser 5.Peterson
Gloucester - 4.Slater 5.Alemanno
Worcester - 4.Clegg 5.Kitchener
Sarries - 4.Itoje 5.Kpoku

In a few games this season our locks were noticeably outgunned and largely anonymous against those sides with really strong lock pairings. It's in no way a concern as big as I had over our back row for instance a couple of seasons back where we could hardly compete with the worst in the league let alone the best! It's just the area of our squad that I think we are most obviously lacking a touch compared to those we should now be trying to push past in the Prem table.

Starting XV isn't everything of course and I'm happy Tigers are building better depth. It's also great that we have more of the squad available all season.

Improving from 11th to Champions Cup qualification as rapidly as we have under Borthwick is excellent. To keep improving from here Tigers realistically need to be targeting being play-off contenders. I don't think it's realistic to say "I think Tigers should qualify for the play-offs this season". I do think we should be aiming to be locked into the top 6 and within touching distance of 4th place going into the final couple of rounds of the Prem season though.

I was happily surprised with our lock pairing last season....certainly better than some combos with better names. Issue we had was the drop off after the 2 first drop seemed to be quite big (with Robinson playing more at 6).

i think your right Sgt, and i think thats why Dean has addressed it by bringing in George Marrick and that young Irish lad Dalton.

If Merrick can find his form...he really could be a cracking signing...and Dalton looks a big athletic lock who can cover flanker. At 6'6 and 18.5 stone at 22....he is one to monitor.

Did Zebo returning to Munster slip under just my radar? I think the Ireland team could really use him too.

Rumours Munster are eyeing up George McGuigan for the season after this one coming up...

Rugby Paper says Green Rockets in Japan (formerly NEC) want to buy Finn Russell out of his Racing 92 contract. Michael Cheika is their coach.

That's the club Alex Goode went to on loan last season.

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/latest-news/340804/the-club-hoping-to-make-scotland-ace-finn-russell-rich/

Falcons have signed England 7s player Ollie Linsday Hague on a short term deal...(till Christmas time)

We were talking about the Kpoku brothers at the weekend...i hadnt realised that Jon Kpoku had moved to Coventry. 22 now...that could be a good move.

GeordieFalcon wrote:We were talking about the Kpoku brothers at the weekend...i hadnt realised that Jon Kpoku had moved to Coventry. 22 now...that could be a good move.

Shame he didn't move a year earlier whilst Louis Deacon was still forwards coach there. He'd have given him some tips on being an absolutely horrible b@stard without the ref noticing.

Deacon now coaching England Women's forwards if I remember rightly.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-qualified-players-england-keep-21353093.amp?__twitter_impression=true
Interesting list.

With that, time for another tenuous transfer-link. Max Clark to Dragons!

Is Clark signing around the same time as Joe Heyes is due to be announced then Mikey...?

I believe so.

Now he's got a couple of England caps we can at least see the end of WalesOnline's campaign to bring Heyes 'home'. I'm sure they'll forget in six months and rehash a previous article anyway.

Max Clark is the current flavour of bring him home it seems. I'd hoped they'd forget about Tommy Reffell but seems unlikely and as he should get plenty of game time at the start of the new season he'll probably catch the eye again.

Is centre the area of most need for the Dragons Mikey?

Yeah I think WOL will be re-hashing that sooner than 6 months...

We have a good starting pair in Roberts, Owen, with Warren as a good back-up. Dixon has become very poor. Roberts is close to retirement though and we could do with a big centre to replace him. Centre in general is a problem for Wales. It seems we're short on good ones, evident by Parkes and Halaholo filling the void in recent years. It's also been a while since I seen a decent centre at U20 level. I really hope we can tempt Clark over, just dangle the usual carrot. Clark can replace Tompkins who for me is a fail - I don't doubt that he will have a good career with Sarries though.

There is one eye on Reffell. It depends if he can do more than turnovers, and if we have a few injuries at 7. I think he is England eligible now?

Area of need for Dragons = everywhere, if we want to be a top 4 team. You'll need three good players in most positions. I think we are also the most desperate at fly-half, where there is a big drop-off after lacklustre Sam Davies. We have recruited well at prop and have brought in Rowlands. The starting team looks decent.

Tommy Reffell is all tackles and turnovers. He's a skillful player but he isn't much of an offensive threat, perhaps if Leicester's attack is developed this off season and stops being quite so direct we'll see more of him.

Centres of real quality seem quite a sort after commodity these days. Just look at the Lions Tour, weakest selection of centres for years. Max Clark I'm not sure is international quality but he's a good club man and would get more game time if he moved away from Bath who have two very good centres in Redpath and Joseph.

Props and a big lock is normally a good place to spend money in my opinion. Flyhalf is hard to judge, does Davies fit the way you are trying to play, from what I remember of him as a youth he was a bit of an attacking flyhalf. If you've got a bit pack then perhaps a more tactical option will work better.

Some movement listed on the Beeb today

Irish sign Ryan Bower and Jamie Dever (from US rugby) at prop
Saints - SA winger Courtnall Skosan

Dragons - SH Lewis Jones on loan from Cardiff

London Irish sign some squad filler props.

Saints take a punt on a winger that peaked a few years back.

Dragons sign a solid clubman scrum half.

Not sure any of the three teams will be excited by that news. Interesting Saints have gone after a winger as they are pretty well stocked back there.

Still looking for the news of us, Scarlets, signing a second row....

Saints have signed another winger with blistering pace, to go with Sleightholme, Colins and Naiyaravoro plus of course 15/11/14 Freeman.


Northampton Saints today announce the signing of Springbok wing Courtnall Skosan from the Sigma Lions.

The 30-year-old has 12 caps for South Africa to his name, as well as over 100 appearances across the Super Rugby and Currie Cup competitions with the Lions.

Blessed with explosive pace and an impressive work rate, as well as a sharp handling and kicking game, Skosan is a winger with plenty to offer on both sides of the ball and brings bags of experience to Northampton’s group of back-three players.

https://www.northamptonsaints.co.uk/news/saints-sign-springbok-wing-courtnall-skosan

Oakdene wrote:Still looking for the news of us, Scarlets, signing a second row....

I was like that and then Tigers announced that they'd signed "second row Snyman" I got all excited and then I saw it was Eli Snyman...

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Saints have signed another winger with blistering pace, to go with Sleightholme, Colins and Naiyaravoro plus of course 15/11/14 Freeman.


Northampton Saints today announce the signing of Springbok wing Courtnall Skosan from the Sigma Lions.

The 30-year-old has 12 caps for South Africa to his name, as well as over 100 appearances across the Super Rugby and Currie Cup competitions with the Lions.

Blessed with explosive pace and an impressive work rate, as well as a sharp handling and kicking game, Skosan is a winger with plenty to offer on both sides of the ball and brings bags of experience to Northampton’s group of back-three players.

https://www.northamptonsaints.co.uk/news/saints-sign-springbok-wing-courtnall-skosan

Seems like a good player who ticks all the boxes. And has international experience. He obviously has good judgement and appreciates the finer places in the world. But, methinks we need a prop...

We have 10 props in the senior squad, which should be sufficient. However 6 of them have played less than 10 games for Saints so some of the youngsters are going to have to come through at some point.

Cheslin Kolbe has confirmed his move to Toulon, leaving Toulouse as a 'club legend'.

Sam's dream signing Gareth Evans to Leicester finally comes true.

mikey_dragon wrote:Sam's dream signing Gareth Evans to Leicester finally comes true.

As short term signings go he's a decent bit of squad cover. Happy with that and a little surprised he didn't have a club. With Weise and van Staden away with SA we needed an extra body in the backrow until Christmas time, especially with Brink's tendency to get injured.

Surprised Kolbe has opted to leave Toulouse for Toulon, must have been a chunk of cash involved.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:We have 10 props in the senior squad, which should be sufficient. However 6 of them have played less than 10 games for Saints so some of the youngsters are going to have to come through at some point.

We certainly need people to break out. Some of our props have a lot of miles on the tyres. Others barely been kissed. Besides Paul Hill, who is in the prime of his career?

Apologies for mixing metaphors.

doctor_grey wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:We have 10 props in the senior squad, which should be sufficient. However 6 of them have played less than 10 games for Saints so some of the youngsters are going to have to come through at some point.

We certainly need people to break out.  Some of our props have a lot of miles on the tyres.  Others barely been kissed.  Besides Paul Hill, who is in the prime of his career?

Apologies for mixing metaphors.  

At tighthead you've got Hill in his prime, Painter who should be pushing for regular game time and Heffernan who was a stand out for Notts in the Championship. Loosehead you've taken some punts as back up to Waller in Auterac and Hobbs-Awoymi  might yet come good but you might be more hoping a youngster emerges.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:We have 10 props in the senior squad, which should be sufficient. However 6 of them have played less than 10 games for Saints so some of the youngsters are going to have to come through at some point.

We certainly need people to break out.  Some of our props have a lot of miles on the tyres.  Others barely been kissed.  Besides Paul Hill, who is in the prime of his career?

Apologies for mixing metaphors.  

At tighthead you've got Hill in his prime, Painter who should be pushing for regular game time and Heffernan who was a stand out for Notts in the Championship. Loosehead you've taken some punts as back up to Waller in Auterac and Hobbs-Awoymi  might yet come good but you might be more hoping a youngster emerges.

Heffernan did look good in his late season cameos.  Let's hope he builds on that.  If Painter continues to improve should be good.  The other side is a bit of the scrum is a worry with Waller getting on and Auterac as a journeyman type of player.  A lot of 'ifs' here.  This is way I was hoping in the off season Saints would sign a prop as cover (Waller in particular, I suppose).  The rest of the team appears in good shape, both talent wise and health/injury wise. You think Saints are good at 10 when Biggar will be away? Furbank as the back-up to Grayson?

doctor_grey wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:We have 10 props in the senior squad, which should be sufficient. However 6 of them have played less than 10 games for Saints so some of the youngsters are going to have to come through at some point.

We certainly need people to break out.  Some of our props have a lot of miles on the tyres.  Others barely been kissed.  Besides Paul Hill, who is in the prime of his career?

Apologies for mixing metaphors.  

At tighthead you've got Hill in his prime, Painter who should be pushing for regular game time and Heffernan who was a stand out for Notts in the Championship. Loosehead you've taken some punts as back up to Waller in Auterac and Hobbs-Awoymi  might yet come good but you might be more hoping a youngster emerges.

Heffernan did look good in his late season cameos.  Let's hope he builds on that.  If Painter continues to improve should be good.  The other side is a bit of the scrum is a worry with Waller getting on and Auterac as a journeyman type of player.  A lot of 'ifs' here.  This is way I was hoping in the off season Saints would sign a prop as cover (Waller in particular, I suppose).  The rest of the team appears in good shape, both talent wise and health/injury wise.  You think Saints are good at 10 when Biggar will be away?  Furbank as the back-up to Grayson?

Thanks for sending van Wyk up the road to the sunny rolling hills of Leicestershire he seems a solid loosehead. Was a little surprised Saints didn't try harder to keep him as you say the loosehead stocks aren't as bountiful.

When Biggar is away the team does look weaker but Grayson should keep improving and isn't a bad back up. Makes sense to develop the eventual successor to Biggar whilst he's away. The only concern for Saints is the rest period from the Lions and the fact it was pretty obvious Biggar wasn't fully fit but putting his body on the line anyway. He's going to need all of those 10 rest weeks just to get himself sorted.

With van Wyk, be prepared to be underwhelmed. Happy to send him up past the speed cameras on A508. He shows a lot of promise, but never really developed. To be fair, the current Saints coaching staff showed virtually nothing developing the set piece, opting for ballplayers instead. So, it's possible, maybe even likely, Tigers get more out of him than Saints.

Last season Grayson, Jr sometimes looked the part and sometimes really not. Which is why Furbank had a run of games at 10. This is a big season for Grayson, he has to kick on. Biggar wants to play right away, but I expect him to be away or out for at least 50% of our games. And clearly needs rest time as you mentioned.

Manny Iyogun may kick on, he was brilliant when thrust from obscurity into playing first team rugby at 19, with less than a years experience playing at prop. He didn't do too bad against Dan Cole from memory.

I don't remember that game well (was that the game with the controversial play by Ribbans near the end?). But I remember Iyogun playing in that last game against Exeter and held his own.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Manny Iyogun may kick on, he was brilliant when thrust from obscurity into playing first team rugby at 19, with less than a years experience playing at prop. He didn't do too bad against Dan Cole from memory.

Game before the Tigers game he did well. Took some lessons from Cole but there's not many who don't at the scrum, even Marler the best scrummaging loosehead in the league has had tough days against Dan. For a young man he looked like he had something about him though, surely he should be looking to grab some game time as an understudy.

Van Wyk really only needs to be reliable at the set piece. We have the big Samoan Leatigaga who can play both sides and a young lad Whitcombe with lots of promise. I'd assume Genge, Cole and Heyes will be staples when all are fit an available and then we'll pick the fourth prop based on whether we want more set piece skill or Leatigaga's rumbling runs. Van Wyk is only likely to get lots of game time if there's an injury or during international breaks.

Just like Lawes and Biggar, I would expect Genge to be available for only 50% of games maximum due to his expected England duties. Cole looks like he could play, or at least scrummage, forever. Kind of a latter day Julian White.

doctor_grey wrote:Just like Lawes and Biggar, I would expect Genge to be available for only 50% of games maximum due to his expected England duties.  Cole looks like he could play, or at least scrummage, forever.  Kind of a latter day Julian White.  

Yeah Cole looks like he can carry on for a while yet and Borthwick's tendency to have him and Heyes play 40 mins each is only helping.

Unlike Lawes and Biggar Genge didn't tour with the Lions so will start the season. England internationals normally miss a third of the season. Lions players England players have a 10 week rest period. That might not apply to Biggar actually though I've no idea what his fitness is like.

Mako Vunipola rumoured to be in discussions with several Top 14 clubs. It sounds like Sarries need to cut his significant salary due to the reduced cap, Mako wants to carry on his England career but will have some big offers from France. He's the type of props the Top 14 will love with his carrying and consistently massive tackle count.

king_carlos wrote:Mako Vunipola rumoured to be in discussions with several Top 14 clubs. It sounds like Sarries need to cut his significant salary due to the reduced cap, Mako wants to carry on his England career but will have some big offers from France. He's the type of props the Top 14 will love with his carrying and consistently massive tackle count.

Would be an interesting move as he'd lose out on his England appearance fees. Any reduction at Sarries which would make France more financially beneficial must be quite large or there's a club in France looking to throw money around. 2 AIs plus 5 6N games is going to be a decent chunk of appearance fees. 

I wonder if Tolouse are one of the clubs and are using the Kolbe money to beef up the pack?

Steve Hansen is the coach at Toyota Verblitz

South Africa back-row Pieter-Steph du Toit and New Zealand lock Patrick Tuipulotu have inked contracts with Japanese club side Toyota Verblitz.

The double signing was announced on Monday as the team prepares for the Japan Rugby League One season, which starts in January next year.

https://www.planetrugby.com/toyota-verblitz-unveil-springbok-and-all-black-pieter-steph-du-toit-and-patrick-tuipulotu/

Will Mako still be a big part of the England set up if he remains in England? Or would Jones be looking to move him on anyway?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Will Mako still be a big part of the England set up if he remains in England? Or would Jones be looking to move him on anyway?

He's only 30 and we're two years out from a World Cup. Seems unlikely he'll just bin him after years of good service for England. If Genge and Obano were ripping it up then maybe but only one of the three toured with the Lions (again). Post World Cup he might be eased into retirement but not beforehand.

I forget hes only 30...

GeordieFalcon wrote:I forget hes only 30...

He looks like he is 60!

The lad defo had a hard paper round....

GeordieFalcon wrote:The lad defo had a hard paper round....

All uphill, against the wind, with a flat tyre I bet...

Josh Matavesi off to Japan to play for Toyota Shokki Shuttles

Just saw the headline that Tigers have signed Cowan-Dickie, had to read halfway down the page to find out it was Tom and not Luke

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Just saw the headline that Tigers have signed Cowan-Dickie, had to read halfway down the page to find out it was Tom and not Luke

I had a similar double take to be honest! Tom is meant to be a solid hooker and I know a few who follow the Championship closely have been surprised he hasn't had more of a look in with Prem sides. Given Tigers have just linked up with Nottingham I'm a touch surprised that we didn't bring former Tiger Jake Farnworth back in short term but perhaps Tom is just rated as the better player.