SILLY SEASON TRANSFER RUMOURS 20/21

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mikey_dragon wrote:

y ddraig goch wrote:Jac Morgan is leaving the Scarlets for the Ospreys to go and learn his trade off Tipuric. Big loss for the Scarlets but makes sense with Dan Davies, Josh Macelod, and James Davies still on the books. Jac looks like a future Welsh international so it might be a good move for Wales in the long run with the Ospreys finally starting to live up to their potential with a return to the top level of Europe given the players on their books.

Davis and Davies aren’t that good, McCleod is very good but has awful luck with injuries lately. Scarlets’ supporters can’t see why Jac is being let go. Boyde was another good 7 that they let go.

Ospreys are a long way off their potential if last night is anything to go by.

He isn't 'being let go', he's apparently an Ospreys fan and wants to leave despite the offer on the table.
Considering the conditions, the young players in key positions, and the momentum killing refereeing performance (for both sides), Ospreys came out of it with a victory which is what they needed to help secure champions cup rugby next season.
I think it would be better to judge them as of next season when, if all the murmurs are to be believed, we will have a higher proportion of games played with full strength sides.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/58917874.amp

Hallam Amos will retire next summer aged 27 to focus on his medical career.

Bit surprised as Amos could have kept going and got another 10 or so caps with Wales. Never really seemed to hit his potential.

Sounds like he realises he has achieved all he is likely to achieve and a medical career is likely to be as lucrative in the later years as he is getting now.

Perhaps his split focus has meant that he never hit the heights he could on the pitch. If the right opportunity presents itself outside of rugby then it must be hard to turn down knowing rugby is a short career

formerly known as Sam wrote:Perhaps his split focus has meant that he never hit the heights he could on the pitch. If the right opportunity presents itself outside of rugby then it must be hard to turn down knowing rugby is a short career

He probably always wanted to be a doctor as well as a rugby player. Whilst you can pursue both as a student, there comes a time when he had to make his choice.

Sounds like he has made it, so fair play to him.

Steve Diamond to Bath. Tighthead might get his wish afterall

lostinwales wrote:Steve Diamond to Bath. Tighthead might get his wish afterall

Yes because what they lack is a forwards coach with all of Hooper, Hatley, Charteris and despite having a former international scrum coach in Hatley they have a scrum coach in Liley. If what the need is leadership and direction then that could be the end for Hooper though you'd guess that they've invested so much time into him by now they might want to hold on a bit longer.

What Bath really need is a defence coach, Mike Ford is available 

Wouldn't say Diamond would be my pick for Bath. Seems an odd choice if they do want to move Hooper on.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Wouldn't say Diamond would be my pick for Bath. Seems an odd choice if they do want to move Hooper on.

Well he'd add steel and a culture of us Vs them. Never a master tactician he did get a Sale team to survive for years with a low budget, producing a raft of youngsters and all of them put their bodies on the line for the team. Bath could do with a bit of that at the minute, I can't imagine it being a long term position but at the minute Bath are lacking identity and commitment.

Irish sign young Argentinian International backrow forward Juan Martin Gonzalez Samso ...

Surely Bath have the money and the prestige to go after Stuart Lancaster? If they are looking for a culture man, he could be the answer after his relative success at Leinster.

Lancaster still has the England management bungle hanging over him. It's been said by a few players of that era that Lancaster would have meetings about future meetings. As the top man I do wonder whether it was a step to far. The Cullen and Lancaster combination does work well for Leinster. Whether you could carry that across to Bath and he's be able to create the same relationship with Hatley is a bit of an unknown. Whether Bath would opt for him after the Burgess mess he helped create which Bath felt some of the backlash on is also a bit of an unknown.

Why would Lancaster leave Leinster for Bath? I'm pretty sure at Club level he wants to win the HC, which with all due respect to Bath - they will never win. Leinster are a different level of side compared to Bath.

If he went to Bath his coaching reputation might take a hit purely on lack of quality available to him. Something that wasn't lost on him given the exact thing happened to him with England. I think any side he ends up after Leinster will no doubt be a top club side or possible international setup.

Welshmushroom wrote:Why would Lancaster leave Leinster for Bath?  I'm pretty sure at Club level he wants to win the HC, which with all due respect to Bath - they will never win.  Leinster are a different level of side compared to Bath.

If he went to Bath his coaching reputation might take a hit purely on lack of quality available to him.  Something that wasn't lost on him given the exact thing happened to him with England.  I think any side he ends up after Leinster will no doubt be a top club side or possible international setup.

Whilst I agree that Bath can't hold a torch to Leinster there is no shortage of quality at Bath. As a Tigers fan it does amuse me that they are playing so badly as I'm sure it did them when we were suffering but Bath are playing as less than the sum of their parts and quite considerably so.

They have a tight five all capped by England, not as first choice but all good players. A backrow featuring Underhill and Falatau with some pretty good homegrown backrow options. A backline bursting with attacking talent though the injury to Spencer is a real blow.

11. Muir / Roko
12. Redpath / Ojomoh
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. De Glanville

I reckon even I could enable that backline to score tries and my knees don't work.

They've got Cipriani at veteran maverick and the obvious successor to the 10 shirt in Bailey in the squad to guide that backline.

Honestly, anything outside of top 6 should be a failure. Where they are currently is a crisis. The coaches just don't seem to be able to get a tune out of squad players when they come into cover. It's a dream job for a talented coach who wants to make a statement, trying to find the right coach or DOR to take it on is the difficulty because you suspect they will have plenty of applications.

Irish sign another Argentinian International, Lucio Cinti. That makes 3 in total now and if the new two are even half as good as Creevy it will be good news.

Saints sign tighthead prop Conor Carey from Perpignan. Oisín Heffernan has picked up a hamstring injury, leaving Saints with only three senior tightheads, hence the signing until the end of the season. Another 130kg lump in the Saints armory.

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Honestly, anything outside of top 6 should be a failure. Where they are currently is a crisis. The coaches just don't seem to be able to get a tune out of squad players when they come into cover. It's a dream job for a talented coach who wants to make a statement, trying to find the right coach or DOR to take it on is the difficulty because you suspect they will have plenty of applications.

I might not go that far, because the league is the most competitive I have ever seen it this season, but they should certainly be doing better than they are.

One factor seems to be that - based on how they played against Quins - they seem to be more interested in niggle than in playing. It was one of the worst-tempered matches I've seen in a long while. I guess some of that is frustration boiling over, but Bath's gameplan seems to be first and foremost to be disruptive, and their most potent attacking option was to win a pen and try to maul over from inside the 22. Which worked, but only when they had a man advantage. I wonder if something went wrong in preseason, because they seemed underpowered for a lot of the game.

Anyway, in other news Rugbypass reports that England's dropped players are being courted by French clubs, including the Vunipolas - though they want to stay together, so it would need some very deep pockets to get them to move.

Poorfour wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Honestly, anything outside of top 6 should be a failure. Where they are currently is a crisis. The coaches just don't seem to be able to get a tune out of squad players when they come into cover. It's a dream job for a talented coach who wants to make a statement, trying to find the right coach or DOR to take it on is the difficulty because you suspect they will have plenty of applications.

I might not go that far, because the league is the most competitive I have ever seen it this season, but they should certainly be doing better than they are.

It's not that competitive. Bath, Bristol and Worcester have been pretty much walkovers for most of the league so far.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Poorfour wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Honestly, anything outside of top 6 should be a failure. Where they are currently is a crisis. The coaches just don't seem to be able to get a tune out of squad players when they come into cover. It's a dream job for a talented coach who wants to make a statement, trying to find the right coach or DOR to take it on is the difficulty because you suspect they will have plenty of applications.

I might not go that far, because the league is the most competitive I have ever seen it this season, but they should certainly be doing better than they are.

It's not that competitive. Bath, Bristol and Worcester have been pretty much walkovers for most of the league so far.

Wow, how novel not to see our name in that list for a change

GeordieFalcon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Poorfour wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Honestly, anything outside of top 6 should be a failure. Where they are currently is a crisis. The coaches just don't seem to be able to get a tune out of squad players when they come into cover. It's a dream job for a talented coach who wants to make a statement, trying to find the right coach or DOR to take it on is the difficulty because you suspect they will have plenty of applications.

I might not go that far, because the league is the most competitive I have ever seen it this season, but they should certainly be doing better than they are.

It's not that competitive. Bath, Bristol and Worcester have been pretty much walkovers for most of the league so far.

Wow, how novel not to see our name in that list for a change

After the last few years I'm rather glad we aren't in that list as well.

The difference being that Tigers have too much heritage, talent and (frankly) financial wherewithal to remain in the doldrums for long. It's impressive how quickly Borthwick has turned things around, though.

Tigers recruitment over the last few 5/6 years has been shambolic, they just had no direction....no real idea how they wanted to play.

They needed a strong personality to take control and Borthwick seems to be that man. They've added some nasty forwards, just bordering international class which given the fantastic Ford something to play with.

The league is really entertaining this season, not in a throw the ball around way. Youngsters are getting their chance and the playing field seems the most level it's ever been, I'm really enjoying it. It's really cemented its tag of "best league in world" for me.

Tigers recruitment from about 2012 to 2019 was not particularly well thought out or cohesive. The academy was effectively left to rot until an overhaul in 2017ish. Murphy really didn't get it right on the pitch but he did bring in a development pathway to get the academy players into the first team, that has really served us well.

We also got away from the awful idea of having a superstar backline because that would mean winning and good to watch rugby, it delivered neither. Thankfully we reverted to trying to build a big horrible pack and found a couple of international class coaches to enable the powerful and mobile pack to do the job at the set piece and in the loose. The attack is still a work in progress but we are getting there. Was pretty tough to watch whilst we were awaiting Borthwick's arrival and the period where he rebuilt the team slowly. I think Gloucester are going through something a little similar with Skivington though they probably need to rebalance their spend between back three and pack before they can make a step past mid table.

"Murphy really didn't get it right on the pitch"

A understatement there Sam!

Sgt_Pooly wrote:"Murphy really didn't get it right on the pitch"

A understatement there Sam!

Ha certainly. To be fair he was given a dog turd of a job. Told it was temporary and then a few months after he tried to keep things steady they told him he has keeping the job. There's obviously a difference between your mind set if you think you're just keeping the seat warm for someone else or making a go of it yourself. Whilst Murphy isn't head coach material he wasn't helped by a board that had tried to paper over cracks for years and arrange a backroom staff on the cheap rather than bite the bullet and put things in place properly.

If you look at us now compared to then there's been a significant change in both senior coaches and players, for good reason. Whichever half wit decided bringing back O'Connor was a good idea should be made to stand outside WR on match days to publicly and repeatedly apologise to the fans.

Looks a done deal for Faletau to Cardiff. Good move by Bath as his wages will be huge and his time on the pitch has been severely limited. Makes the move by Mercer more of a head scratcher though from Bath's perspective.

Welshmushroom wrote:Why would Lancaster leave Leinster for Bath?  I'm pretty sure at Club level he wants to win the HC, which with all due respect to Bath - they will never win.  Leinster are a different level of side compared to Bath.

If he went to Bath his coaching reputation might take a hit purely on lack of quality available to him.  Something that wasn't lost on him given the exact thing happened to him with England.  I think any side he ends up after Leinster will no doubt be a top club side or possible international setup.

Does Lancaster have his family with him in Dublin?

Welshmushroom wrote:Why would Lancaster leave Leinster for Bath?  I'm pretty sure at Club level he wants to win the HC, which with all due respect to Bath - they will never win.  Leinster are a different level of side compared to Bath.

If he went to Bath his coaching reputation might take a hit purely on lack of quality available to him.  Something that wasn't lost on him given the exact thing happened to him with England.  I think any side he ends up after Leinster will no doubt be a top club side or possible international setup.

Well they already kind of have in a previous incarnation back in the 90's.

Bath are a fantastic club with a lot of history. They may be in a bit of mess at the minute but are one of the big sleeping giants in Europe and have plenty of cash to throw around. If SL were ever to go (I don't actually think they're looking at him), it wouldn't be a surprise.

Cardiff: "We have a lot of strength in the back-row, including lock forwards who can also play there. We need to make additions to the front 5."

Also Cardiff: "Let's sign another former Dragons' player in Faletau."

They'll need cover for when he's injured though Mikey.

Bath have a lot of good players...they're just not clicking.

They need a new top notch manager to do that...and they'll be quite a team.

No 7&1/2 wrote:They'll need cover for when he's injured though Mikey.

I think they're covered quite well here. They have Will Boyde, Thomas Young, Josh Navidi, Shane Lewis-Hughes, Ellis Jenkins, James Botham, James Ratti, Sam Moore, Josh Turnbull, Alun Lawrence, Ollie Robinson - and then Talupe Faletau; as cover Seb Davies, Teddy Williams. They have too many 7's. So unless they are planning to cut a few of those guys I wouldn't be signing another back-row. I still wouldn't sign a back-row until I made changes to the front 5.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Bath have a lot of good players...they're just not clicking.

They need a new top notch manager to do that...and they'll be quite a team.

True, but we do tend to hear this every year... for the last 10 years.

mikey_dragon wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Bath have a lot of good players...they're just not clicking.

They need a new top notch manager to do that...and they'll be quite a team.

True, but we do tend to hear this every year...  for the last 10 years.

I'm more than happy for this to continue for another 10 years.

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:They'll need cover for when he's injured though Mikey.

I think they're covered quite well here. They have Will Boyde, Thomas Young, Josh Navidi, Shane Lewis-Hughes, Ellis Jenkins, James Botham, James Ratti, Sam Moore, Josh Turnbull, Alun Lawrence, Ollie Robinson - and then Talupe Faletau; as cover Seb Davies, Teddy Williams. They have too many 7's. So unless they are planning to cut a few of those guys I wouldn't be signing another back-row. I still wouldn't sign a back-row until I made changes to the front 5.

"Unless something is happening that I don't know about, I wouldn't be doing what they are doing"

There's a clue, there.

mikey_dragon wrote:Cardiff: "We have a lot of strength in the back-row, including lock forwards who can also play there. We need to make additions to the front 5."

Also Cardiff: "Let's sign another former Dragons' player in Faletau."

Amos is the only 'former Dragons player', no? Other than those who have returned to where they went through the Academy in Screech and Belcher.

How many ex-Cardiff players at the Drags nowadays?

PhilBB wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:They'll need cover for when he's injured though Mikey.

I think they're covered quite well here. They have Will Boyde, Thomas Young, Josh Navidi, Shane Lewis-Hughes, Ellis Jenkins, James Botham, James Ratti, Sam Moore, Josh Turnbull, Alun Lawrence, Ollie Robinson - and then Talupe Faletau; as cover Seb Davies, Teddy Williams. They have too many 7's. So unless they are planning to cut a few of those guys I wouldn't be signing another back-row. I still wouldn't sign a back-row until I made changes to the front 5.

"Unless something is happening that I don't know about, I wouldn't be doing what they are doing"

There's a clue, there.

From the outside it certainly looks odd. I suppose when you're unlikely to need to scrimp for his full wage you may as well though. Reduces the risk on his availability.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:They'll need cover for when he's injured though Mikey.

I think they're covered quite well here. They have Will Boyde, Thomas Young, Josh Navidi, Shane Lewis-Hughes, Ellis Jenkins, James Botham, James Ratti, Sam Moore, Josh Turnbull, Alun Lawrence, Ollie Robinson - and then Talupe Faletau; as cover Seb Davies, Teddy Williams. They have too many 7's. So unless they are planning to cut a few of those guys I wouldn't be signing another back-row. I still wouldn't sign a back-row until I made changes to the front 5.

"Unless something is happening that I don't know about, I wouldn't be doing what they are doing"

There's a clue, there.

From the outside it certainly looks odd. I suppose when you're unlikely to need to scrimp for his full wage you may as well though. Reduces the risk on his availability.

Exactly. It's the WRU's internal market and competition between its own members.

A ludicrously badly managed organisation.

You implying that Cardiff didn't want Faletau then?

No 7&1/2 wrote:You implying that Cardiff didn't want Faletau then?

I've no idea how you've arrived at that

Reading between the lines of the previous post, hence the question. So Cardiff wanted him and they've got him.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Reading between the lines of the previous post, hence the question. So Cardiff wanted him and they've got him.

That was some reading. You read a complete work of invisible fiction.

Well hence why I asked the question Phil. You like the signing or you wish they'd look to strengthen elsewhere in the squad? Given Young has played a good deal at number 8 for Wasps, well, like I said a bit odd.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well hence why I asked the question Phil. You like the signing or you wish they'd look to strengthen elsewhere in the squad? Given Young has played a good deal at number 8 for Wasps, well, like I said a bit odd.

Thomas Young has started two games at 8 for Wasps since October 8th, 2017.

I don't understand why you've framed the question about Faletau as an 'either or' option, either.

Hes played there more than that though. Played well there too. Wasps do have a pretty effective back row in covering anyway though.

OK. We'll you could have just answered wel I'd like both. So you're pleased with Faletau coming in. That's nice.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Hes played there more than that though. Played well there too. Wasps do have a pretty effective back row in covering anyway though.

OK. We'll you could have just answered wel I'd like both. So you're pleased with Faletau coming in. That's nice.

It's the way you chose to frame the question that was telling. You deliberately framed it as a negative.

And the Young bit was another negative, until the stats blew your claim on his time at 8.

Young and Faletau won't be the last signings, I'd imagine. And certainly not the last signings of players returning to Wales.

It's an open question Phil though I'm a bit with mikey in that there are other areas in that squad which look weaker than the back row. So you're pleased with the signing then?

As for Young, no you didn't. He's spent a good deal of his time there. Ask the prem fans on here and they'll back that up. Good player and good signing.

PhilBB wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:They'll need cover for when he's injured though Mikey.

I think they're covered quite well here. They have Will Boyde, Thomas Young, Josh Navidi, Shane Lewis-Hughes, Ellis Jenkins, James Botham, James Ratti, Sam Moore, Josh Turnbull, Alun Lawrence, Ollie Robinson - and then Talupe Faletau; as cover Seb Davies, Teddy Williams. They have too many 7's. So unless they are planning to cut a few of those guys I wouldn't be signing another back-row. I still wouldn't sign a back-row until I made changes to the front 5.

"Unless something is happening that I don't know about, I wouldn't be doing what they are doing"

There's a clue, there.

Yeah obvs. That is why we're discussing it.

PhilBB wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Cardiff: "We have a lot of strength in the back-row, including lock forwards who can also play there. We need to make additions to the front 5."

Also Cardiff: "Let's sign another former Dragons' player in Faletau."

Amos is the only 'former Dragons player', no? Other than those who have returned to where they went through the Academy in Screech and Belcher.

How many ex-Cardiff players at the Drags nowadays?

I don't know, but I did intend to get a nice bite from captain obvious

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's an open question Phil though I'm a bit with mikey in that there are other areas in that squad which look weaker than the back row. So you're pleased with the signing then?

As for Young, no you didn't. He's spent a good deal of his time there. Ask the prem fans on here and they'll back that up. Good player and good signing.

Starting 2 games in 4 years is the key stat. Thanks.

I think I explained the Mikey thing above.

mikey_dragon wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Cardiff: "We have a lot of strength in the back-row, including lock forwards who can also play there. We need to make additions to the front 5."

Also Cardiff: "Let's sign another former Dragons' player in Faletau."

Amos is the only 'former Dragons player', no? Other than those who have returned to where they went through the Academy in Screech and Belcher.

How many ex-Cardiff players at the Drags nowadays?

I don't know, but I did intend to get a nice bite from captain obvious

It's difficult to know the difference between fishing and genuine opinion much of the time. The fish normally comes after the call out.