Next Scotland squad

First topic message reminder :

I know we have a very important match still to be played on Friday, but seeing as I did a good job with my first post as a member (The Scotland 6N thread), I thought I'd start one early for the summer tour :P.

I actually got the idea after reading a status on an Irish Rugby Facebook group (I'm half Irish hence being in the group. I still support Scotland first and foremost, even last Sunday) which asked the following question that I'm about to further down this thread .

I don't think it's been officially confirmed yet but I am about 95% certain that Georgia and Romania was touted as our summer tests.

So bearing that in mind, we know that we will have a lot more new additions added to the squad and potentially even starting the games due to Lions selection.

So the question is this:-

Who would you like to see picked in the squad that hasn't been capped or named in squads before?

I will start by saying: Josh Bayliss and Ben Vellacot.

I'd also like to see more of: Jamie Dobie, Rufus McLean, Byron McGuigan, Scott Steele and Alex Craig, preferably as starters or on the bench.

I was going to add the boy Tuipolotu but tbh, he will need to prove himself at Glasgow before he's even considered for Scotland.


Also, if GT is away on Lions duty, who would coach the team, Mike Blair?

jimbopip wrote:

BigGee wrote:

In terms of spare THs, you would imagine it would be Keeble, who has played there a few times for Glasgow and is certainly big enough.

In many ways it would make sense for him to make the switch permanently.  There is certainly a lof less competition at TH

Gee, your analsis is usually Keir Starmeresque in it's perspicacity and meticulousness; however this post has the smell of Johnson's seat of the pants say the first thing that comes into your head and no-one will notice( till the bodies start piling up in their thousands).
If Kebble switched to tighthead he would be behind Ragnar The Lion. Or ahead of him. So one of Glasgow's TH's would be playing less rugby. IF, big if, they were both called up for Scotland Glasgow would be two Th's down.
I can't see how this situation helps either Glasgow or Scotland.

Agree with pretty much all of that Jim, but we can't get away from the fact that we only really have three international THs in the Scotland squad, one of whom, Nelly, is not so far off picking up his pension. We are one and a half injuries away from a crisis and with Zander's ability to get himself carded and sent off on occasions, it may not even need to be an injury!

Casting the net out for more Scottish qualified props is a sensible move. Not finding any that can play TH leaves a slight hole in the plan though!

On TH's, Rae and McCallum are fine at club level but really need to kick on at Bath and whatever club McCallum can find if they are going to become the 3rd choice. Welsh is permanently crocked and old. Nicol was not rated and sent to the Championship. Wilson and Gamble are still fetus's.

The problem with moving position is that we may go from having an international level LH to having a club level TH. Would rather we focused on finding development pathways for Nicol, McCallum, Gamble, Wilson and Rae to kick on than try to mess a player about.

Hazel Sapling wrote:On TH's, Rae and McCallum are fine at club level but really need to kick on at Bath and whatever club McCallum can find if they are going to become the 3rd choice. Welsh is permanently crocked and old. Nicol was not rated and sent to the Championship. Wilson and Gamble are still fetus's.

The problem with moving position is that we may go from having an international level LH to having a club level TH. Would rather we focused on finding development pathways for Nicol, McCallum, Gamble, Wilson and Rae to kick on than try to mess a player about.

Wilson and Gamble are still unknown prospects. Hopefully they will develop into good players and get capped but only time will tell us that.

Being good at u20s is no guarantee of making it as a fully fledged TH at the professional level. Nicol and McCallam are good examples of that. Both have been around the professional game for quite some time but have never really broken through and there must be a reason for that. I would be very surprised if either of them makes it now. McCallam does not even have a club to go to yet. You can see by the fact that he has hardly been played this season that Cockers, who has his faults but is a decent judge of fronts rows, just does not rate him.

Rae has been a good squad player, but has not really broken through as a starter under any of the coaches he has had at Glasgow either. It is a bit of a shot in the dark to imagine he will go to Bath and grow into a top quality TH, though I would be delighted if that was to be the case

I think the issue is BG that we do not have the playing pool to say every position is going to have 3 above average internationals. As mentioned, the depth at LH is enviable whilst we can say we are well stocked at LK (Cummings, Grays, Gilchrist, Skinner, Craig, B Toolis, Hunter-Hill, Davidson, Hodgson, Henderson, etc.), FH (Russell, Hastings, Weir, VDW, Thompson), centres (too many to name) and FB (Hogg, Maitland, Kinghorn, H Jones).

On the other hand, the locker is pretty empty at TH (once Nel retires), the back-row and SH.

If we can have a third TH who can hold their own in the scrum and give a little bit around the park for 20 minutes, I would say that is not a terrible spot. I think Rae can fit that bill and McCallum has been okay when I have seen him. Bear in mind that Cockerill did effectively bin Bhatti who has proven an adept 3rd option at LH.

https://www.theoffsideline.com/sean-lineen-backs-scottish-energy-ahead-of-under-20s-six-nations-challenge/

A nice run down on the u20s this year, which we should be able to watch in June. It will be interesting to see how young Townsend and Redpath get on in particular.

17 of them will be back again next year, so a youngish group that we maybe should be setting to high a bar on. The lack of rugby for a lot of the players across the board may make this a hard tournament to call.

I always enjoy watching the U20s when the chance comes along, hopefully this will be a good tournament.

Thanks for that Gee, I always like keeping tabs on the U20's too - very hard to judge, but looks to be some promising players in this crop, especially the two giant 2nd rows on Glasgow's books - from pictures Alex Samuel looks absolutely huge.

It's a real shame that some of the younger guys who have got pro experience this season are injured for the tournament - Gamble, Currie & Brown, the latter two in particular have both made a good impression.

www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/mike-blair-was-fast-adventorous-and-quick-thinking-lets-hope-his-scotland-team-are-the-same-3262091

This is a very good article on the possible team that may play the test matches and also a reminder of why not to underestimate Romania or Georgia.

Nice bit of back story on Javen Sebastian, in an interview with Mark Palmer. He seems to be a prop on the up and has broken through into then Scarlets team this season. More importantly for us, he is a TH, which we badly need.

The classic modern hybrid mix of nationalities, he sounds like he could have played for Wales, England, Scotland or Belize!

Looking forward to see how he goes this summer.



Who is Javan Sebastian? The question will have occurred to some Scotland fans after the 26-year-old Scarlets prop was this week named in the squad for summer games against England A, Georgia and Romania, but the man himself was asking it not so long ago.

He had always known the basic details — that he had been born in Bury St Edmunds to an English mother and Scottish father before moving to Carmarthen at the age of two and growing up in a busy house with six sisters and two brothers. Anything further back, however, remained a bit of a mystery.

“All my life I thought I was Caribbean-Jamaican, because I’d never really been told my family history,” he said. “It was only recently that I found out that my grandfather, my dad’s dad, was actually from Belize. Apparently he went over to Honduras to work in tree felling and then came to Scotland, where my dad was born.”

Sebastian’s father, Edwin, was raised in Edinburgh and still lives there. Sebastian spent a year north of the border in 2015-16, on a partnership contract with Ayr and Glasgow Warriors at a time when Gregor Townsend was head coach at Scotstoun and Mike Blair – who is in charge of this summer’s national team tour – was one of his squadmates.

Sebastian recalls the experience with warmth, but freely admits that he was at a point in both his rugby and personal development where he could not make the very most of it. “I’d say it was the right move, but it maybe wasn’t the right time for me,” he said. “Maybe I wasn’t mature enough or rugby-ready enough to be thrown into that type of environment.

“I had been with the Scarlets academy so I didn’t really know what pro rugby players are meant to do or how they’re meant to act. Being thrown in at the deep end as a 20-year-old in a different country, away from your family and friends, is kind of scary but I learned a lot.”

Sebastian — a tight-head prop — made a strong impression at Millbrae, winning Ayr’s Young Player of the Season award at the end of a campaign where they were narrowly beaten by Heriot’s in the Premiership grand final. He returned to Scarlets that summer, but only this season did he really break through, his scrummaging coming on under the tutelage of Ben Franks, the two-time All Black World Cup winner.

Before this season, Sebastian had never even started a Pro14 game, but with Samson Lee injured, he has held down the No 3 shirt.

“The coaches seem to have been happy with what they’ve seen and they’ve continued playing me throughout the season,” he said. “I’m not the finished article, but I’m 26, mid-age and this is my first real season playing regional rugby. I’ve still got a lot to learn and nothing comes easy, I’ve had some tough times and good games, so it’s all step by step for me.

“Naturally, I’m more a ball-in-hand kind of prop. I like to carry, I like to be able to read the plays in front of me, get your hands on the ball and enjoy yourself.”

Sebastian played for Wales at under-16 and under-18 level and was about to turn out for their under-20s when he injured his shoulder. “I did it just before I went into camp with them,” he said. “At the time you’re devastated, but now, in a way it was a saving grace. I think I would have been captured at that stage.

“When Gregor phoned me and asked if I was willing to commit to Scotland, I jumped at the chance. I’m honoured to have the chance to represent them. The opportunity is here to play international rugby, I’m thrilled to have it and I’m really looking forward to the summer.”

Sounds like he's now committed to us which is a bonus . I'll get to see him for the first time next Saturday when I watch my recording of Edinburgh v Scarlets, knowing my luck he'll be dropped completely lol.

Wonder what Jiffy and Sam Warburton are saying about his decision to switch to us :O.

Highland Shaun wrote:Sounds like he's now committed to us which is a bonus .  I'll get to see him for the first time next Saturday when I watch my recording of Edinburgh v Scarlets, knowing my luck he'll be dropped completely lol.

Wonder what Jiffy and Sam Warburton are saying about his decision to switch to us :O.

Jiffy being a moaning faced barsteward about something? I cannot imagine that.

https://twitter.com/FagersonMatt

Looks like Matt Fagerson won't be touring this summer either, as it seems he broke his arm on friday night as well. He has not had much luck with injuries this season either.

Turns out that game was a bruising old affair and has cost a couple of players their touring opportunity this summer.

I wonder if he will call anyone else up?

Ah that's a shame. He's finally put a run of games together for Scotland without getting injured.

If there's ever a good time to get injured it's at the end of the season!

Might present Bradbury with a big chance to make an impression. As discussed on the other thread, he really needs to starting taking some opportunities.

Evening fellow fans,

Apologies if this is not the done thing! I had another little scribble about the squad - even using some of the fantastic insight on here as 'research'! (and I do mean that as a compliment!)

https://thefinalthistle.wordpress.com/2021/06/08/scotland-summer-squad-reaction/

Would love to hear your thoughts.

Great article and analysis

I did suspect Gordon might be taking the chance to head home for the summer, it may be the last chance the overseas born players get to do so for a while. I am sure he would have been in the squad otherwise.

To me, the luckiest player to be in the squad is Bradbury, who certainly owes us a performance.

I would agree though that Hutchy is the most unlucky to have missed out. The new guy, who none of us have seen play, better be good!

Good article. It got me thinking trying to think of a non-touring Scotland 23 including the injured.

Dell - McInally - Nel (Lambert - Brown - Rae)
R Gray - Gilchrist (Davidson)
CDP - G Graham - Gordon (Haining)

SHC - Weir (Vellacott - VDW)
S Johnson - Bennett (Hutchinson)
D Graham - H Jones - Maitland

Additional squad: Grahamslaw, Kerr, McCallum, Hunter-Hill, Toolis, Cowan, Wilson, Miller, Kennedy, Redpath, McGuigan, Tagive

Clear weaknesses at prop depth as noted but that squad probably beats most T2 countries. Not bad considering that squad is missing 8 Lions and 37 selected in the current touring party.

Terrific article. Very informative.

I do find the omission of Hutchinson bewildering.

thefinalthistle wrote:Evening fellow fans,

Apologies if this is not the done thing! I had another little scribble about the squad - even using some of the fantastic insight on here as 'research'! (and I do mean that as a compliment!)

https://thefinalthistle.wordpress.com/2021/06/08/scotland-summer-squad-reaction/

Would love to hear your thoughts.

That's far too sensible and well written for s place like this! I'm taking credit for Blair Bingo though

thefinalthistle wrote:Evening fellow fans,

Apologies if this is not the done thing! I had another little scribble about the squad - even using some of the fantastic insight on here as 'research'! (and I do mean that as a compliment!)

https://thefinalthistle.wordpress.com/2021/06/08/scotland-summer-squad-reaction/

Would love to hear your thoughts.

Great piece - loved it - keep these up.

thefinalthistle wrote:Evening fellow fans,

Apologies if this is not the done thing! I had another little scribble about the squad - even using some of the fantastic insight on here as 'research'! (and I do mean that as a compliment!)

https://thefinalthistle.wordpress.com/2021/06/08/scotland-summer-squad-reaction/

Would love to hear your thoughts.

Great analsis Jaggyman.

Test XV: Kinghorn I'd rather see Titman as Blarehorn needs a good kick up the posterior; apparently living with the Luvvies has so softened Cockers that he has stopped behaving in this uncivilsed way!, Forbes, Tuipulotu, Scott, Steyn, Hastings for the A game I'd start Thompson, his performances at Glasgow have kept Haircut at 15, Horne strange to say but he has looked off the pace in the Makey Uppey Cup and really needs to remind us why we were all so excited about him. Strange to say...stranger to type.; Bhatti, Turner, Berghan; Cummings, Skinner; Bayliss, Ritchie, Bradbury Again if Bayliss can play 8 I'd be tempted with McDonald or Henderson at 5 and Bayliss instead of Bradbury. He is another who needs to feel Cockers' size 12's on his coccyx.
Subs: Ashman, Hislop, Kebble, Craig, Crosbie, Dobie, Thompson, McLean

Not sure about test matches against Romania and Georgia but England A game is on Channel 4, not sure of KO times either though .I

Any ideas on what you would like to see as the matchday 15 for England A, Auterac, Henderson, Bayliss, Tuipulotu, Ashman and Sebastian to all make the matchday 23 so that they get match action, thus being officially captured by us perhaps?

Highland Shaun wrote:Not sure about test matches against Romania and Georgia but England A game is on Channel 4, not sure of KO times either though .I

Any ideas on what you would like to see as the matchday 15 for England A, Auterac, Henderson, Bayliss, Tuipulotu, Ashman and Sebastian to all make the matchday 23 so that they get match action, thus being officially captured by us perhaps?

Mmmmm im not keen on the idea of handing out caps to just capture players. If they are good enough they should get capped but like imagine if Cammy Redpath had got 1 cap for england to get captured but then he was discarded because eddie jones didnt take a shine to him? That would have been a massive waste for both England AND Scotland so why bother capping folk to capture them? If Blair/Townsend gets them in camp and they think, for example, Sebastian is terrible, why bother capturing him? he could go on and play elsewhere for another country if he wanted to.

Cap players who you think will actively contribute or have the potential to contribute positively to the cause. Anything else is a disservice to the shirt.

Looks like we will have lost another forward from out summer tour squad, as sam Skinner got sent off today for a high shot. Hard to imagine he won't get three weeks for it, which would take him out of the first two games. You would imagine with both him and Fagerson out, they will bring at least one more back 5 forward into the squad.

Sale lost their hooker, Akker Van de Merwe (Duhan's brother) as well to a nasty looking ankle injury, which might take him out for the rest of the season, likely bringing Ewan Ashman into their match day squad for the semi final as well.

It's a blow to lose Skinner, but I still struggle to fully place him in the side: too small for a top quality international lock but lacks pace to be an international 6. He's basically a better version of Tim Swinson. Very fine and competent player, but perhaps lacking something for the international arena.

BigGee, who are the contenders to be picked if, as you say, they do bring in another back 5 forward?

Hunter-Hill, Boyle, Skyes i would imagine, if he is just looking at new blood.

He could go for s more established pkay6et as well i guess, but not so sure he will.

We are a bit light at No.8 now with Fagerson out, only really leaves Bradbury wbo has not played for quite some time.

Thompson actually played really well in the Edinburgh Scarlets game this afternoon, he could be worthy of a call up as well. he has never really had much luck with injuries in the Scotland games so far.

In other not so good news Jamie Ritchie hobbled off after a typically full on game. not sure just how serious that might be.

BigGee wrote:Thompson actually played really well in the Edinburgh Scarlets game this afternoon, he could be worthy of a call up as well. he has never really had much luck with injuries in the Scotland games so far.

In other not so good news Jamie Ritchie hobbled off after a typically full on game. not sure just how serious that might be.

To be fair Ritchie, like Gilchrist, always looks knackered and beaten up any time he plays! Probably because he is

Hopefully it's not too bad.

On Skinner, with Exeter having 2 more games likely then the A team game surely he'd be available for the two internationals?

The A team game is same weekend as final. He would miss that and the first international if he gets 3 weeks.

Would they take him for one game?

Nice pick up and try from Henderson at the weekend. Ball off the boot laces and then a superman style dive through traffic to dot down.

Skinner like Ribbans for England will be banned up to the last game of the summer effectively ruling them out. Bad timing for poor tackle technique.

Without Skinner, we are going to need another player who can cover no.8. The squad already has 5 other lock and only has 5 back-rowers left.

I would assume Thomson, Haining and CDP will take the opportunity to see family in the southern Hemisphere.

Ally Miller has had a good season and turned 25 last month. Young enough to come good for the national team as a back-up and likely the second choice for Glasgow next season.

Hazel Sapling wrote:Without Skinner, we are going to need another player who can cover no.8. The squad already has 5 other lock and only has 5 back-rowers left.

I would assume Thomson, Haining and CDP will take the opportunity to see family in the southern Hemisphere.

Ally Miller has had a good season and turned 25 last month. Young enough to come good for the national team as a back-up and likely the second choice for Glasgow next season.

Miller could be a good shout

Miller wouldn't let us down. Very committed and fast loose forward, if a bit on the lighter side for an international 8.

Hutchinson is making the Scotland selectors look a bit silly at the moment.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Miller wouldn't let us down. Very committed and fast loose forward, if a bit on the lighter side for an international 8.

Hutchinson is making the Scotland selectors look a bit silly at the moment.

One of those non-selections that just makes no sense.

EST wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Miller wouldn't let us down. Very committed and fast loose forward, if a bit on the lighter side for an international 8.

Hutchinson is making the Scotland selectors look a bit silly at the moment.

One of those non-selections that just makes no sense.  

Blair has obviously been reading the forum, Fagerson out for three months and replaced in the squad by Hutch!

Maybe they are waiting until the disciplinary for Skinner takes place to make a call on him, if he gets two weeks, might be worth winging it, any longer though and you would imagine he will be out.

https://www.scottishrugby.org/news/news/scotland-squad-update-summer-2021

Hutchinson to 8?

Good news for Bradbury. Pretty much makes the 8 jersey by default.

Adam McBurney, the new Edinburgh hooker from Ulster, comes straight into the summer squad in place of dave Cherry, who injured his hand against Scarlets last Sunday. That is a bit tough on him, as he had done well in his 6N appearances and deserved another shot.

With Ashman being needed by Sale for at least one more weekend, we probably do need another hooker for the A game.

Jake Kerr, who seems to have settled very well into the Bristol squad, might have been the obvious call, except he will likely be tied up for the next two weekends as well. He could still be in contention for the tour itself if there are any more injuries.

4 weeks for Skinner

I think that is his tour bu**ered!

That will be Skinner off the tour.

5 backrowers for a 3 game series may be a little tight (particularly only 1 player with experience at no.8).

Kerr seems to have followed Thackers footprints. Leicester prefer size/physicality over work in the loose and hopefully Kerr can settle in a team that plays to his strengths. Kerr should fit Scotland's succession planning post 2023, if he can find a good home.

Hazel Sapling wrote:That will be Skinner off the tour.

5 backrowers for a 3 game series may be a little tight (particularly only 1 player with experience at no.8).

Kerr seems to have followed Thackers footprints. Leicester prefer size/physicality over work in the loose and hopefully Kerr can settle in a team that plays to his strengths. Kerr should fit Scotland's succession planning post 2023, if he can find a good home.

am hoping he stays at Bristol!

Bristol are going to have to do quite a bit of rotation. They have Thacker, Byrne and Capon on the books as far as I can tell. Capon and Thacker would probably be choices 1a/1b entering the season so not sure if Kerr will get the gametime he needs as a 3rd/4th choice option to develop into an international calibre player.

Alternatively, if anyone is going to figure out how to rotate players, Pat Lam is an excellent coach and will get the best out of each of them.

Skinner confirmed as out the squad and no replacement is being called up.

Finlay Christie started for the Blues in the Super Rugby trans Tasman final victory tonight. All the commentators seems to think he'll be in the ABs squad..


I suspect the Scottish ship has sailed for him!

Fraser Dingwall released from England squad so I presume that means he's not captured by them, therefore meaning he's still eligible for us :O.


Eddie playing a very dangerous game imho, has he not learned his lesson after the Cam Redpath situation!

Not so fussed on Dingwall. Good club player at 13 but not convinced by his defence and not as good a distributor as Hutchinson or Redpath were/are. Feel like he lacks power (going forward and in defense) for the international game though he has just turned 22 and could come good.

More concerned that Rodd is in the squad. Plenty of time for more LH's to come through for Scotland, however that guy has the potential to be a 50+ cap international if things go right. He is also learning in a South African dominated pack that has plenty of bite about it.

RDW wrote:Finlay Christie started for the Blues in the Super Rugby trans Tasman final victory tonight. All the commentators seems to think he'll be in the ABs squad..


I suspect the Scottish ship has sailed for him!

As expected he's been named in the squad.

Good luck to Christie, he has made his choice and i hope he picks up a few caps now.

I think he passed on the chance to come to Scotland a few years ago and he would almost certsinly have missed this WC cycle now had he changed his mind.

I am happy with the SHs we have got, particularly with Dobie on the way up and we will live with that

Hazel Sapling wrote:
More concerned that Rodd is in the squad. Plenty of time for more LH's to come through for Scotland, however that guy has the potential to be a 50+ cap international if things go right. He is also learning in a South African dominated pack that has plenty of bite about it.

Rodd looks quality to me. Not many props his age can make 23 appearances and 16 starts in a season of Premiership and Champions Cup rugby whilst performing that well. His strength outside of the set-piece is the breakdown as well which is a point of difference to England's other prop options who are either strong carriers and/or make a huge volume of tackles. Not much ruck pressure coming from our props these days.

Mako, Marler, Genge and Obano are a good line-up of LHs ahead of him but Rodd definitely has something about him. I expect Rodd will at least play the Saxons game and get captured via it.

I think NZ as well as others are realising they need to capture good players that happen to be dual qualified. There's probably still a lot of guys in England that are SQ or WQ. I was also wondering if the Blues back 5 forward Tom Robinson was SQ...