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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Post by dynamark Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:41 am

First topic message reminder :

Ben Leicester have been fortunate to find wealthy owners who saved us from a deal of trouble but they could not be accused of throwing stupid money around and disregarding the fans.The PL winning team was assembled from a bunch of frees ,has beens and cheap buys I think Ulloa was the top buy at about £9m.What they then did as some players moved on for big money was start throwing some of that money about to try to maintain position with varying degrees of success.The Chairman gives away free beer and cakes on his birthday and has given a lot to local organisations including a childrens hospital ,We have been very very lucky.
I think the German teams have a different voting structure where fans have a big say.

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Post by beninho Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:16 pm

McLaren wrote:Southgate is a top notch corporate guy. You couldn't ask for a better figurehead for your organisation. Sadly he is not a great football manager. He is obviously not bad given he got to a WC semi and Euro's final, but with a really top manager this England squad could have won both. Essentially he got the most of the players based solely on being great people person. But a better tactician might have handled things in way that could have seen England beat Italy.

I do think think anyone is under any disbelief that Soythgate is the second coming of Bielsa. But, being a good man manager and getting the best out of your, sometimes limited resources, is pretty much the best an Engkand manager can do. But, England don't or haven't had the chance to appoint soneobe with Mancinis record or Luis Enrique. Other then those two, International managers aren't great Clun managers or roaring success stories.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:20 pm

If England had limited resources that might be true but it isn't. Southgate is holding back the team rather than getting the most out of them; he left all of Sancho, Grealish, Foden, Saka, Rashford, Bellingham etc. on the bench preferring to go with an overly conservative back five.

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Post by Pal Joey Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:30 pm

How about swappping Southgate for Silverwood?
Both have surnames starting with an S. Nobody would even notice. Problems solved.
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Post by beninho Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:55 pm

Southgate is the 2nd most successful England manager ever. He isn't perfect, but compared to the rest he has done wonders. He doesn't deserve to go. But if ge did, who we got available? We do t have a mancini, luis Enrique or deschamps. Favourite would be Eddie Howe!!

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:15 pm

beninho wrote:Southgate is the 2nd most successful England manager ever. He isn't perfect, but compared to the rest he has done wonders. He doesn't deserve to go. But if ge did, who we got available? We do t have a mancini, luis Enrique or deschamps. Favourite would be Eddie Howe!!

Success is relative, with the squad available England should have won the euros, they didn't.

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Post by beninho Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:25 pm

With the squad available France shoukd have won the Euros, they had the best team and squad. I don't think the England squad was the best in the tournament. Not seeing Connor Coady, Ben White making the Italy squad.

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Post by beninho Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:28 pm

In fact not sure how many from England woukd get in the Italy starting 11. Walker, kane,

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:36 pm

beninho wrote:With the squad available France shoukd have won the Euros, they had the best team and squad. I don't think the England squad was the best in the tournament. Not seeing Connor Coady, Ben White making the Italy squad.

They played loads of minutes didn't they.

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Post by beninho Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:39 pm

Do you think the England squad was better and deeper then France and Italy?

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Post by Duty281 Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:40 pm

beninho wrote:Southgate is the 2nd most successful England manager ever. He isn't perfect, but compared to the rest he has done wonders.

What has he done, other than benefit from favourable draws? As far as I can see he's much the same as other England managers in that he falls short in the matches against strong teams e.g. Belgium/Croatia/Netherlands/Italy.

The actual 2nd most successful England manager would probably be Bobby Robson, who was agonisingly close to winning the 1990 World Cup and not too far short in 1986, either.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:42 pm

beninho wrote:Do you think the England squad was better and deeper then France and Italy?

Factoring in that France have a history of squad discontent then yes I do. Italy have the edge in midfield but England are far superior in attack.

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Post by beninho Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:47 pm

So, who gets in the Italy starting 11? Kane, maybe soneone at left wing, Sterling? Not over Chiesa on the right. No sure anyobe gets in the midfield or GK, or centre defence, maybe the full backs, as Italy lost the first choice left back. So maybe 4 players.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:52 pm

Such a simplistic way of looking at things. For England I'd pick Maguire over Bonucci, Shaw is a definite starter while at right back you could choose from 2/3. In a 4-2-3-1 I'd be picking four Italians; Chiellini, Donnarumma, Verratti and Jorginho.

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Post by beninho Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:52 pm

Duty281 wrote:
beninho wrote:Southgate is the 2nd most successful England manager ever. He isn't perfect, but compared to the rest he has done wonders.

What has he done, other than benefit from favourable draws? As far as I can see he's much the same as other England managers in that he falls short in the matches against strong teams e.g. Belgium/Croatia/Netherlands/Italy.

The actual 2nd most successful England manager would probably be Bobby Robson, who was agonisingly close to winning the 1990 World Cup and not too far short in 1986, either.

Favourable draws, then mention 1990, where we had Cameroon in the Quater Finals, after beating Belgium. And only won 1 game in 90 minutes. 86, we lost to Portugal, drew with Morocco and had Paraguay in the knockout. We weren't at all close to winning it.

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Post by beninho Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:08 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Such a simplistic way of looking at things. For England I'd pick Maguire over Bonucci, Shaw is a definite starter while at right back you could choose from 2/3. In a 4-2-3-1 I'd be picking four Italians; Chiellini, Donnarumma, Verratti and Jorginho.

Italy don't play 4231, they play 433, with high full backs.

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Post by beninho Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:16 pm

Struggling to think if a worse bit if business then Chelsea selling lukaku for 27m and buying him back for 97m

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:28 pm

beninho wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Such a simplistic way of looking at things. For England I'd pick Maguire over Bonucci, Shaw is a definite starter while at right back you could choose from 2/3. In a 4-2-3-1 I'd be picking four Italians; Chiellini, Donnarumma, Verratti and Jorginho.

Italy don't play 4231, they play 433, with high full backs.

Hence why it's a simplistic way of looking at things. They on the whole play different formations.

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Post by McLaren Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:52 pm

Ben

Struggling to get your point here. Unless you are disputing that England and Italy had about the same chance of winning the final, I am not sure where you are going with this.

Verratti and Jorginho are a major upgrade over Rice and Philips and Donoruma is way better than pickford (but pickford actually played well). Other than that England were as strong if not stronger than Italy. England could have had the best attacking 3 in the tournament should they have wished to play them.
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Post by beninho Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:08 pm

McLaren wrote:Ben

Struggling to get your point here. Unless you are disputing that England and Italy had about the same chance of winning the final, I am not sure where you are going with this.

Verratti and Jorginho are a major upgrade over Rice and Philips and Donoruma is way better than pickford (but pickford actually played well). Other than that England were as strong if not stronger than Italy. England could have had the best attacking 3 in the tournament should they have wished to play them.

My only point is, that I don't see the England squad or team to be superior to the Italian team. And I don't see either to be better then the French. I think maybe 4 woukd get into the Italian starting 11 in the formation favored by Mancini.

I'm also not generally down on Southgate. Not just after his success, but as I dont know anyobe who woukd stand out as a replacement. I think he will go, and should after the Qatar world cup though.

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Post by beninho Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:20 pm

I'll say what did annoy me. Mason Mount. Now, I'm sure he must be good. But he did nothing all tournament, and did not deserve a place in the team. If wingback, which wasn't a bad call initially it shoukd have been a proper number 10. If not soneone like Bellingham to bolster the midfield 3.

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Post by McLaren Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:56 am

Yeh Mount was a weird inclusion. But then so was Southgates lukewarm attitude towards sancho.
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Post by super_realist Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:44 am

Disgraceful from Biden in Afghanistan. Even a truly terrible President like Trump didnt make an error like this.

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Post by Duty281 Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:55 am

What was he meant to do? Keep troops there indefinitely?

The Afghans, it seems, didn't want to fight off the Taliban, most of their 300,000 troops (which outnumber the Taliban about 5-1) laid down arms without a fight.

Wouldn't be surprised to see re-intervention from the USA and NATO forces, though they may be bombing raids rather than boots on the ground.

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Post by beninho Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:56 am

Wasn't it Trump that made the agreement to withdraw, and negotiated with the Taliban, and released the leader from prison in Pakistan to start those negotiations. Didn't Trump say 14 months from Feb 2020, and also was very supportive of Bidens decision to withdraw troops, initially anyway.

But the UK agreed to withdraw back in July aswell.

But, its been 20 years, if the country can't stand on its own, really unsure what can be done. Let's hope people are supportive of Afghans that come here on boats.

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Post by Duty281 Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:03 am

beninho wrote:Let's hope people are supportive of Afghans that come here on boats.

Which will be very few, especially coming up to this time of year. Such people have genuine claims for asylum so they will be presenting themselves to the authorities through the proper channels, rather than trying to evade the authorities through crossing the channel.

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Post by beninho Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:05 am

Duty281 wrote:
beninho wrote:Let's hope people are supportive of Afghans that come here on boats.

Which will be very few, especially coming up to this time of year. Such people have genuine claims for asylum so they will be presenting themselves to the authorities through the proper channels, rather than trying to evade the authorities through crossing the channel.

There was already a settlement scheme ongoing, with at least 600 families, so I would hope that is extended

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Post by super_realist Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:14 am

beninho wrote:Wasn't it Trump that made the agreement to withdraw, and negotiated with the Taliban, and released the leader from prison in Pakistan to start those negotiations. Didn't Trump say 14 months from Feb 2020, and also was very supportive of Bidens decision to withdraw troops, initially anyway.

But the UK agreed to withdraw back in July aswell.

But, its been 20 years, if the country can't stand on its own, really unsure what can be done. Let's hope people are supportive of Afghans that come here on boats.

Theres still US presence in South Korea, cant they stand on their own? Still UK presence in Cyprus too.

Afghans wont be coming here on boats. The ones that are genuine are coming on planes, like interpreters

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Post by beninho Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:32 am

I'm not an expert in South Korea or Cyprus m, bit I presume they are vastly different to Afghanistan,?

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Post by super_realist Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:56 am

beninho wrote:I'm not an expert in South Korea or Cyprus m, bit I presume they are vastly different to Afghanistan,?

Every country is obviously different but many conflicts have resulted in a military presence remaining.


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Post by Soul Requiem Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:23 am

beninho wrote:Wasn't it Trump that made the agreement to withdraw, and negotiated with the Taliban, and released the leader from prison in Pakistan to start those negotiations. Didn't Trump say 14 months from Feb 2020, and also was very supportive of Bidens decision to withdraw troops, initially anyway.

But the UK agreed to withdraw back in July aswell.

But, its been 20 years, if the country can't stand on its own, really unsure what can be done. Let's hope people are supportive of Afghans that come here on boats.

That in itself should have told Biden that it was a stupid plan from the start but no he carried on anyway.

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Post by super_realist Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:32 am

Biden can barely remember his own name, so not surprising he forgot about which policy Trump started.

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Post by McLaren Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:34 pm

super_realist wrote:
Theres still US presence in South Korea, cant they stand on their own? Still UK presence in Cyprus too.

Weren't you the main proponent of the "you can't compare countries" brigade when it came to the UK's response to covid?


Last edited by McLaren on Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by McLaren Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:38 pm

The situation in Afghanistan is weird because at this point most people were willing to accept the idea that being there was a waste of money and generally a terrible idea. If it turns out that whatever US were doing there was preventing the taliban from easily and fully taking the whole country, it does put a slightly different spin on it? I don't think there was anyone calling for continued let alone increased US (or UK) activities in Afghanistan.

Moot point now because I assume you would need a full on land invasion with hundreds of thousands of troops to oust the taliban now.

This is a catastrophe for the people of Afghanistan.
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Post by super_realist Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:06 pm

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:
Theres still US presence in South Korea, cant they stand on their own? Still UK presence in Cyprus too.

Weren't you the main proponent of the "you can't compare countries" brigade when it came to the UK's response to covid?

You think comlaring a war zone to Covid is a good comparison?

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Post by McLaren Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:13 pm

You're the comparison guy. Can you compare covid and a warzone?
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Post by super_realist Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:19 pm

McLaren wrote:You're the comparison guy. Can you compare covid and a warzone?

Of course you can't.

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Post by McLaren Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:25 pm

But can you compare warzones in different countries?
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Post by beninho Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:03 pm

I may be wrong, but was there massive uproar when Trumo announced they would withdraw, was there uproar when Biris said the UK woukd withdraw in July, or even when Biden said it a few months back.

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Post by super_realist Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:17 pm

I dont think so Ben, in fact the wokie "stop the war" oafs were saying we should never have been there to begin with, but its clear to see this decision to withdraw is a terrible mistake, especially if you're a woman due to the backward islamist agenda.

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Post by beninho Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:19 pm

Should we be there?

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Post by super_realist Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:20 pm

McLaren wrote:But can you compare warzones in different countries?

I was actually raisig a point as to Beninho when he said "theres no reason to stay" when countries in similar positions at least have some sort of military adjutant such as in South Korea to disuade North Korea from invading. Could something similar have remained in Poopie to keep the Taliban at bay?

-------

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