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U20 Six Nations 2021

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Post by Cumbrian Thu 17 Jun 2021, 9:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

Thought it might good to have a place to discuss the tournament collectively, would be good to hear about players who we are less familiar with from other nations.

The games are being broadcast live on the iPlayer in the UK this weekend.

rose England  rose
FORWARDS
Harvey Beaton (Saracens)
Phil Brantingham (Newcastle Falcons)
Lucas Brooke (London Irish)
Arthur Clark (Gloucester Rugby)
Jack Clement (Gloucester Rugby)
Luke Green (London Irish)
Alex Groves (Bristol Bears)
Tarek Haffar (London Irish)
Lewis Holsey (Worcester Warriors)
Ethan Hunt (Gloucester Rugby)
Emeka Ilione (Leicester Tigers)
Nahum Merigan (Bath Rugby)
Ewan Richards (Bath Rugby)
Sam Riley (Harlequins)
Ollie Stonham (Saracens)
Harry Taylor (Gloucester Rugby)
Freddie Thomas (Gloucester Rugby)
Archie Vanes (Leicester Tigers)

BACKS
Charlie Atkinson (Wasps)
Seb Atkinson (Worcester Warriors)
Deago Bailey (Bristol Bears)
Orlando Bailey (Bath Rugby)
Jack Bates (Bristol Bears)
Louis Hillman-Cooper (Gloucester Rugby)
Dan Lancaster (Leeds Tykes)
Tom Litchfield (Northampton Saints)
Tommy Mathews (Northampton Saints)
Raffi Quirke (Sale Sharks)
Arthur Relton (Exeter Chiefs)
Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks)
Fin Smith (Worcester Warriors)
Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers)


Braveheart Scotland   Braveheart

FORWARDS
Jamie Drummond* (Ayrshire Bulls)
Patrick Harrison* (Southern Knights/Edinburgh Rugby)
Duncan Hood* (Heriot’s Blues)
Tom Banatvala (Durham University)
Michael Jones* (Boroughmuir Bears)
Corey Bowker (Leeds Beckett University)
George Breese* (Stirling Wolves)
Olly Frostick (Ealing Trailfinders)
Cole Lamberton* (Watsonians Rugby/Edinburgh Rugby)
Alex Samuel* (Stirling County/Glasgow Warriors) CAPATIN
Max Williamson* (Stirling County/Glasgow Warriors)
Euan Ferrie (Glasgow Hawks)
Harri Morris (Southern Knights)
Rhys Tait (Southern Knights)
Ollie Leatherbarrow (Exeter University)
Rory Jackson* (Ayrshire Bulls/Glasgow Warriors)
Ben Muncaster* (Watsonians Rugby/Edinburgh Rugby)
Archie Smeaton (Cambridge University)

BACKS
Ethan McVicker (Melrose Rugby)
Murray Redpath (Newcastle University)
Cameron Scott* (Southern Knights/Edinburgh Rugby)
Euan Cunningham* (Stirling County/Glasgow Warriors)
Christian Townsend* (Ayrshire Bulls)
Thomas Glendinning* (Glasgow Hawks)
Scott King* (Heriot’s Rugby/Edinburgh Rugby)
Michael Gray* (Boroughmuir Bears/Glasgow Warriors)
Elliot Gourlay (Sale Sharks)
Finlay Callaghan* (Ayrshire Bulls/Glasgow Warriors)
Adam Scott * (GHA)
Ollie Melville* (Boroughmuir Bears/Glasgow Warriors)
Harry Paterson* (Heriot’s Rugby/Edinburgh Rugby)
Ross McKnight* (Stirling County)


Leprechaun Ireland  Leprechaun

Forwards:

George Saunderson (Sullivan Upper School/Queen’s University Belfast RFC/Ulster)
Jack Boyle (St Michael’s College/UCD RFC/Leinster)
Temi Asewunmi Lasisi (CBS Enniscorthy/Lansdowne FC/Leinster)
Mark Donnelly (CBC Cork/Garryowen RFC/Munster)
Eoin de Buitléar (Scoil Chuimsitheach Chiáran/An Ghaeltacht/Corinthians RFC/Connacht)
Lee Barron (St Michael’s College/Dublin University FC/Leinster)
Ronan Loughnane (Cistercian College Roscrea/UCD RFC/Leinster)
Sam Illo (Wesley College/Old Wesley RFC/Leinster)
Darragh Murray (Colaiste Chiaran/Buccaneers RFC/Connacht)
Harry Sheridan (Sullivan Upper School/Dublin University FC/Ulster)
Mark Morrisey (Blackrock College/UCD RFC/Leinster)
Alex Soroka (Belvedere College/Clontarf RFC/Leinster)
Oisin McCormack (Garbally College/Buccaneers RFC/Connacht)
Alex Kendellen (PBC Cork/UCC RFC/Munster)(Captain)
Reuben Crothers (Wallace High School/Ballynahinch RFC/Ulster)
Donnacha Byrne (Summerhill College/Sligo RFC/Connacht)
Jack Kelleher (PBC Cork/UCC RFC/Munster)
Daniel Okeke (Ard Scoil Ris/Shannon RFC/Munster)
Liam Bishop (Trent College/Nottingham University/IQ Rugby)

Backs:

Conor McKee (Sullivan Upper School/Queen’s University Belfast RFC/Ulster)
Nathan Doak (Wallace High School/Banbridge RFC/Ulster)
Ben Murphy (Presentation College Bray/Old Wesley RFC/Leinster)
Tim Corkery (St Kieran’s College, Kilkenny/UCD RFC/Leinster)
James Humphreys (Dean Close School/Queen’s University Belfast RFC/Ulster)
Cathal Forde (Colaiste Iognaid/Corinthians RFC/Connacht)
Ben Carson (Wallace High School/Banbridge RFC/Ulster)
Shane Jennings (Garbally College/Buccaneers RFC/Connacht)
Ben Moxham (Larne High School/Ballymena RFC/Ulster)
Conor Rankin (Campbell College Belfast/Ballynahinch RFC/Ulster)
Chay Mullins (SGC Filton/Bristol Bears/IQ Rugby)
Josh O’Connor (St Peter’s College/UCD RFC/Leinster)
Jamie Osborne (Naas CBS/Naas RFC/Leinster)
Chris Cosgrave (St Michael’s College/UCD RFC/Leinster)
Jude Postlethwaite (RBAI/Banbridge RFC/Ulster).


Wales Wales Wales

Forwards:
Garyn Phillips (Ospreys)
Theo Bavaqua (Cardiff Blues)
Cameron Jones (Ospreys)
Efan Daniel (Cardiff Blues)
Ollie Burrows (Exeter Chiefs)
Connor Chapman (Dragons)
Nathan Evans (Cardiff Blues)
Lewys Jones (USON Nevers)
Zak Giannini (Llanelli Wanderers)
Joe Peard (Dragons)
James Fender (Ospreys)
Dafydd Jenkins (Exeter Chiefs)
Rhys Thomas (Ospreys/Aberavon)
Alex Mann (Capt – Cardiff Blues)
Christ Tshiunza (Exeter Chiefs)
Harri Deaves (Ospreys)
Tristan Davies (Ospreys)
Carwyn Tuipulotu (Scarlets)
Evan Lloyd (Cardiff Blues)

Backs:
Jacob Beetham (Cardiff Blues)
Morgan Richards (Dragons/Pontypridd)
Carrick McDonnough (Dragons)
Eddie James (Scarlets)
Tom Florence (Ospreys)
Joe Hawkins (Ospreys)
Ioan Evans (Pontypridd)
Daniel John (Exeter Chiefs)
Sam Costelow (Scarlets)
Will Reed (Dragons)
Ben Burnell (Cardiff Blues)
Harri Williams (Scarlets)
Ethan Lloyd (Cardiff Blues)
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Post by Cumbrian Thu 24 Jun 2021, 3:53 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:JVP and Quirke, Atkinson and Smith. Talk about quality starting and on the bench at halfback.

Interesting to see they've gone for the beefy bench front row of last week to start this week. They certainly made an impact last week though that looked pre planned as they all took to the field not long after half time. Be interesting to see if they still tear it up from the start. 

Ilione is a bit of a monster bust has had exams and injury so hasn't managed to play on loan with Notts. Looked powerful and athletic off the bench last weekend. With the work horse Clement that's a good combination.


Last week was the first time I saw him play and he looked very good, he seemed a natural and really seems to understand his own body mechanics (if that makes any sense).
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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 24 Jun 2021, 4:00 pm

Wow Exeter Chiefs the fifth regional academy?

Margin Walker, had to Google Haffar, he looks like he'll fit in nicely with the big lads that they've selected to start the game. Be good if he can bring the carrying intensity the starting front row brought off the bench last weekend. Ilione looks like a slightly shorter more ripped Itoje both in body shape and more than slightly in playing style. I'm just hoping he translate the all action displays from junior rugby to senior rugby. Tigers certainly rate him highly.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 24 Jun 2021, 4:01 pm

Cumbrian wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:JVP and Quirke, Atkinson and Smith. Talk about quality starting and on the bench at halfback.

Interesting to see they've gone for the beefy bench front row of last week to start this week. They certainly made an impact last week though that looked pre planned as they all took to the field not long after half time. Be interesting to see if they still tear it up from the start. 

Ilione is a bit of a monster bust has had exams and injury so hasn't managed to play on loan with Notts. Looked powerful and athletic off the bench last weekend. With the work horse Clement that's a good combination.


Last week was the first time I saw him play and he looked very good, he seemed a natural and really seems to understand his own body mechanics (if that makes any sense).  

He's a bright kid, he's studying medicine and was accepted to UCL but don't know if he's doing it part time or has transferred to a Uni in the Midlands to make it easier to play and study.

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Post by BigGee Thu 24 Jun 2021, 4:19 pm

There is a Redpath and a Townsend starting at half backs for Scotland against England.

Lets hope they can roll back the years and play like their Dads.


Last edited by BigGee on Thu 24 Jun 2021, 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Margin_Walker Thu 24 Jun 2021, 4:37 pm

BigGee wrote:There is a Redpath and a Townsend starting at half backs for Scotland against England.

Lets hope they can roll back the years and play like their Dads.


Saw that earlier. Seriously nostalgic looking feel to that lineup.

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Post by Margin_Walker Thu 24 Jun 2021, 4:48 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Wow Exeter Chiefs the fifth regional academy?

Margin Walker, had to Google Haffar, he looks like he'll fit in nicely with the big lads that they've selected to start the game. Be good if he can bring the carrying intensity the starting front row brought off the bench last weekend. Ilione looks like a slightly shorter more ripped Itoje both in body shape and more than slightly in playing style. I'm just hoping he translate the all action displays from junior rugby to senior rugby. Tigers certainly rate him highly.

Yeah, heard about Ilione for a few years. Was he injured in his last year of U18s?

Haffar is one of those players that just has a habit of doing freakish things on the pitch. Only seen him play one AASE game and one A game, so no idea how he'll scrummage at the top level. Wouldn't be surprised if he first sees minutes for LI coming on in the back row as he's played plenty there at U18s. Will have a hell of a highlight reel in a few years. Here's a few bits.

https://youtu.be/o27fGSsHWh4?t=8
https://youtu.be/U5gg4EECvPQ?t=31
https://youtu.be/U5gg4EECvPQ?t=70

And one that's really nuts for a prop

https://twitter.com/GrasshoppersLDN/status/1364519645533921282






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Post by The Oracle Thu 24 Jun 2021, 5:56 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:The team for Ireland:
Wales Under-20s: Jacob Beetham (Cardiff); Dan John (Exeter Chiefs), Ioan Evans (Pontypridd), Joe Hawkins (Ospreys), Carrick McDonough (Dragons); Sam Costelow (Scarlets), Harri Williams (Scarlets); Garyn Phillips (Ospreys), Efan Daniel (Cardiff), Nathan Evans (Cardiff), Joe Peard (Dragons), Dafydd Jenkins (Exeter Chiefs), Alex Mann (Cardiff, capt), Harri Deaves (Ospreys), Carwyn Tuipulotu (Scarlets).

Replacements: Oliver Burrows (Exeter Chiefs), Theo Bevacqua (Cardiff), Lewys Jones (Nevers), James Fender (Ospreys), Ethan Lloyd (Cardiff Blues), Christ Tshiunza (Exeter Chiefs), Will Reed (Dragons), Tom Florence (Ospreys) Morgan Richards (Dragons/Pontypridd), Eddie James (Scarlets), Rhys Thomas (Ospreys).

Big strong pack, I haven't been impressed with the attack though.

Ioan Evans - listed as Pontypridd.  Does that mean he's not attached to a region?  Good effort if so as I assume most U20s players will come through the academies and into the regions.

The one player I really want to see do well is Carwyn Tuipolotu.  Partly because of the name.  Partly because of his size and therefore potential!  I expect him to just smash players out of the way and run over them but didn't see too much of that last week against Italy. But certainly at schoolboy level he was head and shoulders (literally) above the rest.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 24 Jun 2021, 7:12 pm

MW you're not wrong he's a big boy that can shift isn't he. He's going to be an unpleasant surprise to some opposition backs.

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Post by cb Fri 25 Jun 2021, 1:44 pm

Anyone know how to watch the England match today?

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Post by lostinwales Fri 25 Jun 2021, 1:59 pm

cb wrote:Anyone know how to watch the England match today?

https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/preview/preview-england-under-20s-v-scotland-under-20s#preview

I am watching on facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/sixnationsrugby/videos/487658862536325

It is supposed to be on youtube too

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Post by lostinwales Fri 25 Jun 2021, 2:03 pm

JVP has a step

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 25 Jun 2021, 2:08 pm

Youtube link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84VQbi7fR3I
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Post by cb Fri 25 Jun 2021, 2:10 pm

Many Thanks.  Nightmare to find any link

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Post by lostinwales Fri 25 Jun 2021, 2:19 pm

Ilione off with a shoulder injury after a very bright start

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Post by lostinwales Fri 25 Jun 2021, 2:48 pm

19-5

Both sides struggling with lineouts. Scotland good on the ground (particularly the 7 and the hooker) but otherwise must be feeling lucky they are only 2 tries adrift. England very dangerous at times. All 3 tries very good.

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Post by lostinwales Fri 25 Jun 2021, 3:33 pm

Total mess now.

England down to 13 following sin bin (persistant offside) and then Brooke going off with a red card following a head on head clash.

Scotland still can't score.

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Post by lostinwales Fri 25 Jun 2021, 3:40 pm

England gave away 21 penalties so far. Scotland finally score (even though the scorer lost control of the ball. hmmm)

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Post by lostinwales Fri 25 Jun 2021, 4:15 pm

Not a great game overall. Frustrating because Scotland rarely offered much threat and England kept either messing up or were destroyed at the breakdown. I don't know if the ref ended up being too whistle happy but England struggled to deal with the Scottish jacklers.

Ollie Leatherbarrow for Scotland looked absolutely terrific and did as much as anyone to keep his side in the game. The rest of the Scottish team had real heart but were second best.

England generally very good but kept on losing the ball at the breakdown when they were looking most threatening. Also 23 penalties is not a good statistic. Sam Riley was probably the pick- they said he made 100m in 12 carries at one point - also lovely hands for Fin Smith's try and great all over the park. Got the yellow card but that was really a team yellow.

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Post by BigGee Fri 25 Jun 2021, 4:23 pm

Scotland still look very rusty and are going to struggle this year by the look of things.

As LiW suggests, we played with a lot of heart but not always with a lot of head. England really should have won by a lot more.

I was very impressed with Leatherrbarrow as well he looks to have something about him.


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Post by profitius Fri 25 Jun 2021, 6:57 pm

Italy missed a late kick to beat France.

13-11 it finished.
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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 25 Jun 2021, 7:20 pm

profitius wrote:Italy missed a late kick to beat France.

13-11 it finished.

So France didn’t get beat then?

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 25 Jun 2021, 7:33 pm

Just watched the youtube video, commentators said 'South Africa born' four times when referring to Groves , calling him a 'project player' at one point (his Dad is English by the way) which is fine, he is South African born, but he didn't feel the need to preface every good act by Leatherbarrow or Muncaster with 'English born'. In the grand scheme of things, it probably doesn't matter, but it is irritating.
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Post by profitius Fri 25 Jun 2021, 7:39 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
profitius wrote:Italy missed a late kick to beat France.

13-11 it finished.

So France didn’t get beat then?

France won, yeah.
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Post by BigGee Fri 25 Jun 2021, 8:03 pm

Cumbrian wrote:Just watched the youtube video, commentators said 'South Africa born' four times when referring to Groves , calling him a 'project player' at one point (his Dad is English by the way) which is fine, he is South African born, but he didn't feel the need to preface every good act by Leatherbarrow or Muncaster with 'English born'. In the grand scheme of things, it probably doesn't matter, but it is irritating.

Munchester is from North Berwick!

Went down to England for a rugby scholarship

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Post by MichaelT Fri 25 Jun 2021, 8:08 pm

Cumbrian wrote:Just watched the youtube video, commentators said 'South Africa born' four times when referring to Groves , calling him a 'project player' at one point (his Dad is English by the way) which is fine, he is South African born, but he didn't feel the need to preface every good act by Leatherbarrow or Muncaster with 'English born'. In the grand scheme of things, it probably doesn't matter, but it is irritating.

Thought the commentators on You Tube were very anti-English. Scoreline flattered England even though they were 19-5 up after 20 minutes? Everything Scotland did was praised, nothing much for England even though they held out for a long period of time with only 13 players. The main commentator said Scotland had scored at the end ignoring the foot in touch and then never mentioned it when the TMO reversed the on field decision.

Was it Johnny Williams co-commentating too? Was he trying to prove a point?

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Post by The Oracle Fri 25 Jun 2021, 8:30 pm

Ireland looking much stronger than Wales.  Not surprised really, just more physical and powerful, and quicker at pretty much everything.
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Post by Cumbrian Fri 25 Jun 2021, 8:52 pm

BigGee wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:Just watched the youtube video, commentators said 'South Africa born' four times when referring to Groves , calling him a 'project player' at one point (his Dad is English by the way) which is fine, he is South African born, but he didn't feel the need to preface every good act by Leatherbarrow or Muncaster with 'English born'. In the grand scheme of things, it probably doesn't matter, but it is irritating.

Munchester is from North Berwick!

Went down to England for a rugby scholarship

Fair enough, replace him with George Breese. My point is, in any given game I watch (particularly at age grade) if England have a foreign born player I constantly hear 'X born' did this, when we could be playing against a team with three or four English born players in it, which harldy gets a mention.

Side note, I picked Muncaster because I used to go to Muncaster castle in Cumbria as a kid, so I made an incorrect assumption,my bad.
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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 25 Jun 2021, 8:55 pm

The Oracle wrote:Ireland looking much stronger than Wales.  Not surprised really, just more physical and powerful, and quicker at pretty much everything.

Our backs are shocking. It’s been the same for the last few years. I’m impressed with Ireland’s play, just very efficient and it’s more than enough. Their 8 and 9 are good players.

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Post by BigGee Fri 25 Jun 2021, 9:05 pm

Cumbrian wrote:
BigGee wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:Just watched the youtube video, commentators said 'South Africa born' four times when referring to Groves , calling him a 'project player' at one point (his Dad is English by the way) which is fine, he is South African born, but he didn't feel the need to preface every good act by Leatherbarrow or Muncaster with 'English born'. In the grand scheme of things, it probably doesn't matter, but it is irritating.

Munchester is from North Berwick!

Went down to England for a rugby scholarship

Fair enough, replace him with George Breese.  My point is, in any given game I watch (particularly at age grade) if England have a foreign born player I constantly hear 'X born' did this, when we could be playing against a team with three or four English born players in it, which harldy gets a mention.

Side note, I picked Muncaster because I used to go to Muncaster castle in Cumbria as a kid, so I made an incorrect assumption,my bad.


It's not just the English media that do this, there are elements in the Scottish media who require Scottish players to be pure bred in an almost Harry Pottetesque level of enthusisam.

I just wish everyone would stop this. All countries play by the same rules and if you qualify you qualify.

Identity and nationality is a very complex thing these days, my kids could qualify for three nations quite legitimately and have a good connection to each one.

This is something we should celebrate, not look down on.

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Post by The Oracle Fri 25 Jun 2021, 9:08 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
The Oracle wrote:Ireland looking much stronger than Wales.  Not surprised really, just more physical and powerful, and quicker at pretty much everything.

Our backs are shocking. It’s been the same for the last few years. I’m impressed with Ireland’s play, just very efficient and it’s more than enough. Their 8 and 9 are good players.


Perfect example just then. Our 9 messing up and then Ireland’s 9 with a great break and interplay to go over for a try. World of difference.
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Post by Cumbrian Fri 25 Jun 2021, 9:14 pm

Completely agree, wouldn't begrudge any of those these lads (even Muncaster!) a place in the Scotland squad, it just seems to be a stick we get beaten with quite a lot.

At the end of the day if you feel Scottish, play for Scotland. If you feel English play for England.

I just felt some of the veiled carping from the commentators got a bit over the top.
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Post by The Oracle Fri 25 Jun 2021, 9:35 pm

You’ve also got to factor in the weird dynamic we have here in the UK. A player born in South Africa is, for want of a better term, ‘proper’ foreign (!). But a player born in England with Scottish parents and then running out for Scotland - it’s sort of foreign in rugby terms but their passport will be a UK one. I know it’s sort of splitting hairs but it’s this weird situation we and our players find themselves in when it comes to nationality. We’re one country for the purposes of nationality. We have UK passports meaning we’re technically all the same in the 4 UK nations. We’re UK citizens and therefore we have very easy movement within the UK for parents of future players for work, relationships, etc. But in rugby terms we could be any one of the 4 constituent parts depending where our parents were from, where they gave birth to us (could just be on a shopping trip like happened to a friend of mine who was born on a trip to Barnet!), where they happened to be working, etc. Muddies the waters a lot.
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Post by Cyril Fri 25 Jun 2021, 9:56 pm

I would agree that it’s all a bit ‘fluid’ in terms of international qualification these days. However, the Scotland squad is barely Scottish these days. If I was a fan of Scotland I would wonder who I was supporting given they dredge ever nation for vague hopes of nationality. Each to their own though.

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Post by lostinwales Fri 25 Jun 2021, 11:03 pm

They did say Leatherbarrow was born in Macclesfield.

Do agree though about the commentators including Johnny Williams. Maybe they felt they had to talk up the game more. It had some good moments and as said there were a couple of standout performances, but a lot of it was poor.

England France was a very good game to watch. Maybe not the last 20 minutes or so, but France were superb early on then England came back into it so strongly. With today's game there were a few minutes early on after Scotland's first try that you thought they might make a game of it, but there was never any risk to England, even when down to 13 and uncontested scrums

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Post by lostinwales Fri 25 Jun 2021, 11:06 pm

The Oracle wrote:You’ve also got to factor in the weird dynamic we have here in the UK.  A player born in South Africa is, for want of a better term, ‘proper’ foreign (!). But a player born in England with Scottish parents and then running out for Scotland - it’s sort of foreign in rugby terms but their passport will be a UK one.  I know it’s sort of splitting hairs but it’s this weird situation we and our players find themselves in when it comes to nationality.  We’re one country for the purposes of nationality. We have UK passports meaning we’re technically all the same in the 4 UK nations.  We’re UK citizens and therefore we have very easy movement within the UK for parents of future players for work, relationships, etc. But in rugby terms we could be any one of the 4 constituent parts depending where our parents were from, where they gave birth to us (could just be on a shopping trip like happened to a friend of mine who was born on a trip to Barnet!), where they happened to be working, etc. Muddies the waters a lot.

Good post. I do like to joke about the English born Welsh players but in all honesty good luck to them

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 25 Jun 2021, 11:21 pm

lostinwales wrote:Not a great game overall. Frustrating because Scotland rarely offered much threat and England kept either messing up or were destroyed at the breakdown. I don't know if the ref ended up being too whistle happy but England struggled to deal with the Scottish jacklers.

Ollie Leatherbarrow for Scotland looked absolutely terrific and did as much as anyone to keep his side in the game. The rest of the Scottish team had real heart but were second best.

England generally very good but kept on losing the ball at the breakdown when they were looking most threatening. Also 23 penalties is not a good statistic. Sam Riley was probably the pick- they said he made 100m in 12 carries at one point - also lovely hands for Fin Smith's try and great all over the park. Got the yellow card but that was really a team yellow.

I think Sam Riley typified the English display in general. He was outstanding for most of the game. Rampaged around in the loose, tackled hard, solid at the scrum and then would throw an awful lineout. There was at least three where he was nowhere near his man. Not to mention the dim yellow card for offside though to be fair there was a couple of other forwards that could have equally gone for the same thing.

England look fantastic when they go it all together but the ruck clear outs were awful though credit to the Scottish hooker and openside for being complete menaces. The general discipline was pretty shocking with more than 20 penalties conceded as well as a yellow and red card. Had England been more clinical the score would have been comfortably over 50. 

As an aside JVP had another storming game but looked absolutely shagged late on. Why the England coaches didn't replace him and give Raffi Quirke an outstanding young 9 15 minutes instead is beyond me.

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Post by lostinwales Fri 25 Jun 2021, 11:56 pm

The Scottish hooker was an interesting player. They said he's only 5'8''. When present at the breakdown he was a complete menace. Very stable and could obviously get very low. Poor darts and not the quickest around the pitch though.

Not saying the Scots didn't deserve to get something after being parked on the England line for such a long time but on replay it looked like Leatherbarrow lost control of the ball in the act of scoring. Possible he got proper downward pressure first.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 26 Jun 2021, 2:11 pm

lostinwales wrote:The Scottish hooker was an interesting player. They said he's only 5'8''. When present at the breakdown he was a complete menace. Very stable and could obviously get very low. Poor darts and not the quickest around the pitch though.

Not saying the Scots didn't deserve to get something after being parked on the England line for such a long time but on replay it looked like Leatherbarrow lost control of the ball in the act of scoring. Possible he got proper downward pressure first.

There was another advantage being played so possibly good for England it was given. I think they'd had another warning so could have been down to 12.

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Post by lostinwales Sat 26 Jun 2021, 4:22 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
lostinwales wrote:The Scottish hooker was an interesting player. They said he's only 5'8''. When present at the breakdown he was a complete menace. Very stable and could obviously get very low. Poor darts and not the quickest around the pitch though.

Not saying the Scots didn't deserve to get something after being parked on the England line for such a long time but on replay it looked like Leatherbarrow lost control of the ball in the act of scoring. Possible he got proper downward pressure first.

There was another advantage being played so possibly good for England it was given. I think they'd had another warning so could have been down to 12.

That thought had occured to me at the time. So many offside penalties

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Post by Pot Hale Sat 26 Jun 2021, 11:32 pm

Good result for Ireland 40-12 against Wales. That brings them to 10 games on the bounce. The game against England should be good fun.
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Post by profitius Sun 27 Jun 2021, 12:03 am

Pot Hale wrote:Good result for Ireland 40-12 against Wales.   That brings them to 10 games on the bounce.  The game against England should be good fun.


First time seeing Doak. He was very impressive and lived up to the hype and Kendellen looks a gem. Should be a good match against England who look very good.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun 27 Jun 2021, 8:16 am

profitius wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Good result for Ireland 40-12 against Wales.   That brings them to 10 games on the bounce.  The game against England should be good fun.


First time seeing Doak. He was very impressive and lived up to the hype and Kendellen looks a gem. Should be a good match against England who look very good.

JVP Vs Doak should be fun then.

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Post by lostinwales Tue 29 Jun 2021, 2:21 pm

Brooke banned for 3 weeks and therefore out of the championship

https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2021/06/29/disciplinary-update-lucas-brooke-decision-2/


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Post by lostinwales Wed 30 Jun 2021, 11:07 am

England team for Ireland

15 Charlie Atkinson (Wasps)
14 Tom Litchfield (Northampton Saints)
13 Jack Bates (Bristol Bears)
12 Dan Lancaster (Leeds Tykes)
11 Arthur Relton (Exeter Chiefs)
10 Fin Smith (Worcester Warriors)
9 Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers) (C)

1 Phil Brantingham (Newcastle Falcons)
2 Sam Riley (Harlequins)
3 Harvey Kindell-Beaton (Saracens)
4 Arthur Clark (Gloucester Rugby)
5 Alex Groves (Bristol Bears)
6 Ewan Richards (Bath Rugby)
7 Jack Clement (Gloucester Rugby)
8 Nahum Merigan (Bath Rugby)

REPLACEMENTS
16 Archie Vanes (Leicester Tigers)
17 Tarek Haffar (London Irish)
18 Luke Green (London Irish)
19 Freddie Thomas (Gloucester Rugby)
20 Ollie Stonham (Saracens)
21 Josh Gray (Gloucester Rugby)
22 Tom Carr-Smith (Bath Rugby)
23 Tommy Mathews (Hartpury University RFC)
24 Phil Cokanasiga (London Irish)
25 Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks)
26 Orlando Bailey (Bath Rugby)

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 30 Jun 2021, 11:55 am

Deago Bailey dropped or injured? Ball in hand he was excellent last week but there were a couple of dropped balls he should have been taking.

And no Quirke. Dont think he got on at all last week.

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Post by lostinwales Wed 30 Jun 2021, 12:15 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Deago Bailey dropped or injured? Ball in hand he was excellent last week but there were a couple of dropped balls he should have been taking.

And no Quirke. Dont think he got on at all last week.

It feels a bit like an exercise in giving everyone a game (except for some key positions).

JVP is terrific but nobody else has got a look in so far. I am not sure Quirke got on vs France either.

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Post by Cumbrian Wed 30 Jun 2021, 12:24 pm

The backrow are bloody huge for this level, two no.8s and a lock.

I wonder if Quirke is a late called up to the main England squad, perhaps there is an injury that hasn't been divulged yet?
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Post by Pete330v2 Wed 30 Jun 2021, 3:15 pm

Ireland Team named:

15. Jamie Osborne (Naas CBS/Naas RFC/Leinster)
14. Ben Moxham (Larne High School/Ballymena RFC/Ulster)
13. Shane Jennings (Garbally College/Buccaneers RFC/Connacht)
12. Cathal Forde (Colaiste Iognaid/Galway Corinthians RFC/Connacht)
11. Chris Cosgrave (St. Michael’s College/UCD RFC/Leinster)
10. Tim Corkery (St. Kieran’s College, Kilkenny/UCD RFC/Leinster)
9. Nathan Doak (Wallace High School/Banbridge RFC/Ulster)

1. Temi Lasisi (CBS Enniscorthy/Lansdowne FC/Leinster)
2. Ronan Loughnane (Cistercian College Roscrea/UCD RFC/Leinster)
3. Sam Illo (Wesley College/Old Wesley RFC/Leinster)
4. Alex Soroka (Belvedere College/Clontarf RFC/Leinster)
5. Harry Sheridan (Sullivan Upper School/Dublin University FC/Ulster)
6. Donnacha Byrne (Summerhill College/Sligo RFC/Connacht)
7. Oisin McCormack (Garbally College/Buccaneers RFC/Connacht)
8. Alex Kendellen (PBC Cork/UCC RFC/Munster) (capt)

Replacements:

16. Eoin de Buitléar (Scoil Chuimsitheach Chiaráin/An Ghaeltacht/Galway Corinthians RFC/Connacht)
17. Jack Boyle (St. Michael’s College/UCD RFC/Leinster)
18. Mark Donnelly (CBC Cork/Garryowen FC/Munster)
19. Mark Morrissey (Blackrock College/UCD RFC/Leinster)
20. Reuben Crothers (Wallace High School/Ballynahinch RFC/Ulster)
21. Conor McKee (Sullivan Upper School/Queen’s University Belfast RFC/Ulster)
22. Ben Carson (Wallace High School/Banbridge RFC/Ulster)
23. Jude Postlethwaite (RBAI/Banbridge RFC/Ulster)
24. Jack Kelleher (PBC Cork/UCC RFC/Munster)
25. Daniel Okeke (Ardscoil Ris/Shannon RFC/Munster)
26. Chay Mullins (SGC Filton/Bristol Bears/IQ Rugby).

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 30 Jun 2021, 8:35 pm

lostinwales wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Deago Bailey dropped or injured? Ball in hand he was excellent last week but there were a couple of dropped balls he should have been taking.

And no Quirke. Dont think he got on at all last week.

It feels a bit like an exercise in giving everyone a game (except for some key positions).

JVP is terrific but nobody else has got a look in so far. I am not sure Quirke got on vs France either.

No Quirke last weekend which was odd. Maybe he was carrying a knock. Considering JVP looked cream crackered at the end of the game last weekend I was surprised not to see Quirke. Very odd.

JVP has been played very well but 80 minutes is a long game at 9 he could do with someone that can come on in the second half when he starts to flag. Quirke would have been ideal for that.

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Post by lostinwales Thu 01 Jul 2021, 2:27 pm

Scotland currently trailing by 2 tries to Italy

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