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South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July

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South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July  - Page 10 Empty South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July

Post by George Carlin Sat 17 Jul - 19:00

First topic message reminder :

South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July  - Page 10 A_10                  South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July  - Page 10 Lions_10                
SOUTH AFRICA BRITISH & IRISH LIONS
Saturday 24 July
KO: 18:00 SAST / 17:00 UK / 20:00 Dubai  Very Happy
Cape Town Stadium (Newlands), Cape Town
Sky Sports Main Event

Referee: Nic Berry (Australia)
Assistant Referees: Ben O’Keeffe, Mathieu Raynal
TMO: Marius Bloody Jonker of all people

TEAMS:

SOUTH AFRICA:
15 – Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz) – 62 caps, 60 pts (12t)
14 – Cheslin Kolbe (Toulouse) – 14 caps, 40 pts (8t)
13 – Lukhanyo Am (Cell C Sharks) – 15 caps, 15 pts (3t)
12 – Damian de Allende (Munster) – 47 caps, 30 pts (6t)
11 – Makazole Mapimpi (Cell C Sharks) – 14 caps, 70 pts (14t)
10 – Handré Pollard (vice-captain – Montpellier) – 49 caps, 465pts (6t, 78c, 89p, 4d)
09 – Faf de Klerk (Sale Sharks) – 30 caps, 20 pts (4t)

08 – Kwagga Smith (Yamaha Júbilo) – 7 caps, 5 pts (1t)
07 – Pieter-Steph du Toit (DHL Stormers) – 56 caps, 25 pts (5t)
06 – Siya Kolisi (captain – Cell C Sharks) – 51 caps, 30 pts (6t)
05 – Franco Mostert (Honda Heat) – 40 caps, 5pts (1t)
04 – Eben Etzebeth (Toulon) – 86 caps, 15 pts (3t)
03 – Trevor Nyakane (Vodacom Bulls) – 43 caps, 5 pts (1t)
02 – Bongi Mbonambi (DHL Stormers) – 37 caps, 40 pts (8t)
01 – Ox Nché (Cell C Sharks) – 2 caps, 0 pts

16 – Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears) – 34 caps, 30 pts (6t)
17 – Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers) – 48 caps, 5pts (1t)
18 – Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers) – 39 caps, 5pts (1t)
19 – Lood de Jager (Sale Sharks) – 45 caps, 25 pts (5t)
20 – Rynhardt Elstadt (Toulouse) – 2 caps, 0 pts
21 – Herschel Jantjies (DHL Stormers) – 11 caps, 25 pts (5t)
22 – Elton Jantjies (Pau) – 38 caps, 283 pts (2t, 63c, 49p)
23 – Damian Willemse (DHL Stormers) – 7 caps, 5pts (1t)

BRITISH & IRISH LIONS:
15. Stuart Hogg (Exeter, Scotland) #783
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, England) #816
13. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821
09. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843

01. Rory Sutherland (Worcester, Scotland) #840
02. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter, England) #851
03. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
04. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825
05. Alun Wyn Jones (C) (Ospreys, Wales) #761
06. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826
07. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853
08. Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

16. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787
18. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814
19. Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
20. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland) #847
21. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790
22. Owen Farrell (Saracens, England) #780
23. Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833

PREVIEW:


Last edited by George Carlin on Sat 24 Jul - 15:25; edited 6 times in total
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Post by lostinwales Thu 22 Jul - 15:25

sensisball wrote:It was interesting watching Curry in the Sale pack that was pretty comprehensively overpowered by the La Rochele 8 in the champions cup QF. La Rochele have a monstrous pack (Skelton, Atonio, Alldritt, Vito etc.). Unfortunately even with their Saffer contingent of the Du Preez brothers, DVDM's brother at hooker and Weise in the row they were still pretty much blown away. Curry didn't make any appreciable difference to the pasting they took up front and i think gave away a couple of penalties at breakdown, so I do think the rep the media is building for him as having the potential to be the best English backrow forward ever is a bit premature. Do I think in a few years time that he will be viewed as a better player than Hill or Dallaglio? I'm not so sure.
Yes, he is a great player but as good as his 1997 Lions tour predecessors?
Not yet and by a long way.

Hill has a pretty strong claim to best English flanker ever. We can't compare Curry properly for a few more years, but he genuinely has a chance to be considered in the same class.

It is worth remembering that the best players often look special because of the guys around them. It is rare for an individual to make all the difference, and likewise when an individual fails its not always on him. A really good example of this is the England tour of Australia, when we were up against the Pooper back row. There is no question about who came on top in that contest, and yet in rugby history the ones who will go down as greats of the game were wearing gold and green. The game can be like rock-paper-scissors and I do think the Robshaw/ Haskell combo was particularly strong against the likes of Pocock and especially Hooper.

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Post by Poorfour Thu 22 Jul - 15:37

Collapse2005 wrote:For me he has a better chance of getting selected that Smith because he is a more experienced player and hooker while a key position isnt as critical as out half. Smith I dont think has played with anyone in the Lions squad and has almost zero international experience whereas Kelleher has already played a fair bit of rugby at both international and European level with Beirne, Furlong, Henderson, Conan etc. He was throwing (as sub) to Henderson, Conan and Beirne in the six nations and our lineout was a strength.

That's a slightly odd argument. For what it's worth, Smith played with Sinckler for 4 years at Quins and has trained with the other England players (on and off) over a similar period. But I'm not sure that's really relevant. Slightly more relevantly, he ran the show on Saturday having had one full training session with the Lions squad, and did a very good job albeit against tough but limited opposition.

The material factor here is injury. Right now, Gatland has three fit hookers available to him, and supposedly two fit senior fly halves. But we know that Biggar is coming back from an ankle injury, Farrell is rumoured to have a shoulder problem and it's yet to be seen whether Russell will recover from his hamstring tear. If Russell needs an extra week and one of Biggar or Farrell exacerbate the problems they've been carrying, then Smith's on the bench perforce. Likewise, if one hooker picks up a knock on Saturday and another gets an injury in training, Kelleher's on the bench.

What we feel about their respective experience and readiness for the role is irrelevant: the coaches are not going to fly out someone else. Kelleher and Smith are the guys on the ground and the guys who have been in training with the squad. They are both the fourth choice as far as we know, but the nature of tours, especially in South Africa, is that there will be injuries and unexpected players can be thrust into the limelight.
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Post by doctor_grey Thu 22 Jul - 17:18

I agree.  I think if either get their chance they will do fine.  

Hooker is stacked.  These are all real good players, one through four.

Fly half is a bit different because each of the top 3 players have various niggles or worse.  There has been a lot of wear and tear on our players for the last year and a half.  But all four are different.  The biggest concern, of course, is Russell because of his Achilles injury.  And the biggest problems with an Achilles injury is the healing time and your Achilles can lie to you.

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Post by Collapse2005 Thu 22 Jul - 18:11

Poorfour wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:For me he has a better chance of getting selected that Smith because he is a more experienced player and hooker while a key position isnt as critical as out half. Smith I dont think has played with anyone in the Lions squad and has almost zero international experience whereas Kelleher has already played a fair bit of rugby at both international and European level with Beirne, Furlong, Henderson, Conan etc. He was throwing (as sub) to Henderson, Conan and Beirne in the six nations and our lineout was a strength.

That's a slightly odd argument. For what it's worth, Smith played with Sinckler for 4 years at Quins and has trained with the other England players (on and off) over a similar period. But I'm not sure that's really relevant. Slightly more relevantly, he ran the show on Saturday having had one full training session with the Lions squad, and did a very good job albeit against tough but limited opposition.

The material factor here is injury. Right now, Gatland has three fit hookers available to him, and supposedly two fit senior fly halves. But we know that Biggar is coming back from an ankle injury, Farrell is rumoured to have a shoulder problem and it's yet to be seen whether Russell will recover from his hamstring tear. If Russell needs an extra week and one of Biggar or Farrell exacerbate the problems they've been carrying, then Smith's on the bench perforce. Likewise, if one hooker picks up a knock on Saturday and another gets an injury in training, Kelleher's on the bench.

What we feel about their respective experience and readiness for the role is irrelevant: the coaches are not going to fly out someone else. Kelleher and Smith are the guys on the ground and the guys who have been in training with the squad. They are both the fourth choice as far as we know, but the nature of tours, especially in South Africa, is that there will be injuries and unexpected players can be thrust into the limelight.

Ha, yeah Im sure his partnership with Sinkler will really help him playing out half v the Boks.

He did fine v a weak side. Of course experience is relevant when you play a three test series v the Boks. This isnt a development tour.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 22 Jul - 20:51

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/22/rugby-union-british-irish-lions-south-africa-warren-gatland-marius-jonker-tmo

Gatland furious because Jonker, a South African, has been appointed TMO for the duration of the series. Apparently Pickerill from NZ, the original choice, couldn't make it due to travel disruption.

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Post by profitius Thu 22 Jul - 21:10

Duty281 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/22/rugby-union-british-irish-lions-south-africa-warren-gatland-marius-jonker-tmo

Gatland furious because Jonker, a South African, has been appointed TMO for the duration of the series. Apparently Pickerill from NZ, the original choice, couldn't make it due to travel disruption.

Thats nuts. There's going to be big controversy.
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Post by RDW Thu 22 Jul - 21:16

It sounds like there was no other option, but that really is far from ideal.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 22 Jul - 21:21

Surely there's no actual need for the TMO to be at the stadium or even in the country.

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Post by RDW Thu 22 Jul - 21:32

The TMO's are on site in a truck provided by the broadcaster and has multiple screens and instant access to someone who can pause, rewind, add shots etc. You're right that this could all be done virtually, but it is massively simpler if it's not.

Plus there is the risk of them losing internet, communication etc.

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Post by Old Man Thu 22 Jul - 21:52

This puts Marius Jonker in a compromised position, he will now go out of his way to prove he isn’t biased.

This can only be bad for SA

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Post by doctor_grey Thu 22 Jul - 21:58

RDW wrote:The TMO's are on site in a truck provided by the broadcaster and has multiple screens and instant access to someone who can pause, rewind, add shots etc. You're right that this could all be done virtually, but it is massively simpler if it's not.

Plus there is the risk of them losing internet, communication etc.
The NFL has a sideline video review and also a video review team in New York for all games. Location doesn't really matter any more.

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Post by TightHEAD Thu 22 Jul - 22:03

Get Owens out there. This is a travesty.
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Post by RDW Thu 22 Jul - 22:05

doctor_grey wrote:
RDW wrote:The TMO's are on site in a truck provided by the broadcaster and has multiple screens and instant access to someone who can pause, rewind, add shots etc. You're right that this could all be done virtually, but it is massively simpler if it's not.

Plus there is the risk of them losing internet, communication etc.
The NFL has a sideline video review and also a video review team in New York for all games.  Location doesn't really matter any more.

There's no doubt it can be done, it's just rugby isn't set up to do it.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 22 Jul - 22:20

RDW wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
RDW wrote:The TMO's are on site in a truck provided by the broadcaster and has multiple screens and instant access to someone who can pause, rewind, add shots etc. You're right that this could all be done virtually, but it is massively simpler if it's not.

Plus there is the risk of them losing internet, communication etc.
The NFL has a sideline video review and also a video review team in New York for all games.  Location doesn't really matter any more.

There's no doubt it can be done, it's just rugby isn't set up to do it.

But it is, they stream live coverage of every international match around the world.

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Post by alive555 Fri 23 Jul - 1:53

Soul Requiem wrote:Surely there's no actual need for the TMO to be at the stadium or even in the country.

none. if data connections a problem the match isnt on tv!

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 23 Jul - 4:25

We've already seen how bad that can be on this tour. Surely they have to be looking at another solution.

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Post by George Carlin Fri 23 Jul - 6:53

TightHEAD wrote:Get Owens out there. This is a travesty.
Laugh So we swap their 'neutral' guy for ours. I like it. Very Happy
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Post by TightHEAD Fri 23 Jul - 7:42

George Carlin wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Get Owens out there. This is a travesty.
Laugh So we swap their 'neutral' guy for ours. I like it. Very Happy

I would happily have had Owens referee a Wales vs England game.
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Post by TightHEAD Fri 23 Jul - 7:49

So there is no danger of Faf being caught diving into contact and bashing heads with opposing players then.

Our lads better be careful, especially if we are winning. TMO will be all over it.
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Post by Old Man Fri 23 Jul - 7:50

TightHEAD wrote:So there is no danger of Faf being caught diving into contact and bashing heads with opposing players then.

Our lads better be careful, especially if we are winning. TMO will be all over it.

You are just a ray of sunshine, aren’t you?

Have you bet your house yet?

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Post by TJ Fri 23 Jul - 7:57

TightHEAD wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Get Owens out there. This is a travesty.
Laugh So we swap their 'neutral' guy for ours. I like it. Very Happy

I would happily have had Owens referee a Wales vs England game.

Owens has retired and IMO he had become increasing erratic in his interpretations of the laws. Wayne Barnes is the man now I believe

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Post by miltonkeynesengland Fri 23 Jul - 8:14

I actually feel sorry for Jonker cos he can't win.
Decide something for SA clearly he's biased to his homeland.
Decide something for the Lions clearly he's trying to avoid looking biased.

At this point we just have to trust that it will all work out okay.
I'm going to say he won't be biased and if decisions don't go the Lions way I'll accept his decision and move on.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 23 Jul - 8:18

Old Man wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:So there is no danger of Faf being caught diving into contact and bashing heads with opposing players then.

Our lads better be careful, especially if we are winning. TMO will be all over it.

You are just a ray of sunshine, aren’t you?

Have you bet your house yet?

Old Man wrote:This puts Marius Jonker in a compromised position, he will now go out of his way to prove he isn’t biased.

This can only be bad for SA

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 23 Jul - 8:27

miltonkeynesengland wrote:I actually feel sorry for Jonker cos he can't win.
Decide something for SA clearly he's biased to his homeland.
Decide something for the Lions clearly he's trying to avoid looking biased.

At this point we just have to trust that it will all work out okay.
I'm going to say he won't be biased and if decisions don't go the Lions way I'll accept his decision and move on.

Could come out ok if he actually replays the incidents, learns the laws etc. Did not cover himself in glory in the A game though. A repeat of that and there'll be a stink kicked up.

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Post by BamBam Fri 23 Jul - 8:29

This board is at its most enthusiastic when one side thinks a ref / TMO is to blame. This time EVERYONE agrees the TMO will be to blame, the mods can take the next few weeks off!

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Post by miltonkeynesengland Fri 23 Jul - 8:31

No 7&1/2 wrote:
miltonkeynesengland wrote:I actually feel sorry for Jonker cos he can't win.
Decide something for SA clearly he's biased to his homeland.
Decide something for the Lions clearly he's trying to avoid looking biased.

At this point we just have to trust that it will all work out okay.
I'm going to say he won't be biased and if decisions don't go the Lions way I'll accept his decision and move on.

Could come out ok if he actually replays the incidents, learns the laws etc. Did not cover himself in glory in the A game though. A repeat of that and there'll be a stink kicked up.

I have the oddest feeling a stink will be kicked up by someone whatever he does. Rugby is a minefield of laws and interpretations thereof where no matter what a ref says or does someone will find a way to fault them for it.

God knows I'll probably scream at the telly at the time but once it's done...well so be it.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 23 Jul - 8:33

miltonkeynesengland wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
miltonkeynesengland wrote:I actually feel sorry for Jonker cos he can't win.
Decide something for SA clearly he's biased to his homeland.
Decide something for the Lions clearly he's trying to avoid looking biased.

At this point we just have to trust that it will all work out okay.
I'm going to say he won't be biased and if decisions don't go the Lions way I'll accept his decision and move on.

Could come out ok if he actually replays the incidents, learns the laws etc. Did not cover himself in glory in the A game though. A repeat of that and there'll be a stink kicked up.

I have the oddest feeling a stink will be kicked up by someone whatever he does. Rugby is a minefield of laws and interpretations thereof where no matter what a ref says or does someone will  find a way to fault them for it.

God knows I'll probably scream at the telly at the time but once it's done...well so be it.

The beauty of rugby is it's complexity and of course discussions will commence. There's the clear cut things that they miss which could cause an uproar.

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 23 Jul - 8:42

profitius wrote:
Duty281 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/22/rugby-union-british-irish-lions-south-africa-warren-gatland-marius-jonker-tmo

Gatland furious because Jonker, a South African, has been appointed TMO for the duration of the series. Apparently Pickerill from NZ, the original choice, couldn't make it due to travel disruption.

Thats nuts. There's going to be big controversy.

Why ?

When this happens in the PRO14 we are told that it's fine.

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 23 Jul - 8:59

Laugh

And here come my fan club of dislikers and red bars.

Cowards, why can't you tell me why I'm wrong ?

Personally I am not bothered about the TMO. I think we have enough in us to win without worrying about the officials.

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Post by Poorfour Fri 23 Jul - 9:09

No 7&1/2 wrote:
miltonkeynesengland wrote:I actually feel sorry for Jonker cos he can't win.
Decide something for SA clearly he's biased to his homeland.
Decide something for the Lions clearly he's trying to avoid looking biased.

At this point we just have to trust that it will all work out okay.
I'm going to say he won't be biased and if decisions don't go the Lions way I'll accept his decision and move on.

Could come out ok if he actually replays the incidents, learns the laws etc. Did not cover himself in glory in the A game though. A repeat of that and there'll be a stink kicked up.

Mr Jonker has been not covering himself in glory with his interventions for several years now, especially when English players are involved. The main thing he needs to learn is to be less of a backseat driver for the ref - present the best angles, question decisions but ultimately let the man in the middle decide - and to learn what "clear and obvious" means.
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Post by Poorfour Fri 23 Jul - 9:26

Collapse2005 wrote:
Ha, yeah Im sure his partnership with Sinkler will really help him playing out half v the Boks.

He did fine v a weak side. Of course experience is relevant when you play a three test series v the Boks. This isn't a development tour.

You seem to be confusing "performance" with "selection". You started out talking about who should be selected, but you appear to be thinking more about whether they will perform *if* selected. They are two different things.

Kelleher and Smith are both in a position where if there are injuries to two of the players in front of them, they're in the XXIII. That's just a factual point at this stage of the tour. They have similar chances of ending up in a test shirt, and if anything Smith's are slightly higher simply because the players he is covering for are already carrying injuries. The probability that two of three players will be injured at the same time is higher if two of them already have minor injuries and one is recovering from a more serious injury than if all three are fully fit.

As to who might perform better if they end up being selected, we can only know that in the unfortunate circumstance that they both end up having to play. The only evidence we have for either on tour is that Smith played as well as his more experienced counterparts against similar quality opposition, having spent less time training with them. Will that fall apart if he's asked to play against a full test side? We don't know. Could Kelleher make pressure lineout throws to an unfamiliar set of jumpers in a Test environment? We don't know.

Experience might count. It usually does. Some players need time to adapt to the different pace of international rugby and to adapt to having unfamiliar players around them. A few don't.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 23 Jul - 9:28

LordDowlais wrote:
profitius wrote:
Duty281 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/22/rugby-union-british-irish-lions-south-africa-warren-gatland-marius-jonker-tmo

Gatland furious because Jonker, a South African, has been appointed TMO for the duration of the series. Apparently Pickerill from NZ, the original choice, couldn't make it due to travel disruption.

Thats nuts. There's going to be big controversy.

Why ?

When this happens in the PRO14 we are told that it's fine.

We've already had him act as a tmo this series where he missed a couple of things.

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Post by protea438 Fri 23 Jul - 10:21

All I am hoping for is not a repeat of the 2009 series, the hypocrisy on display was dialled up to 11 then.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 23 Jul - 10:30

protea438 wrote:All I am hoping for is not a repeat of the 2009 series, the hypocrisy on display was dialled up to 11 then.

The tmo missing the red?

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Post by TightHEAD Fri 23 Jul - 10:30

No 7&1/2 wrote:

We've already had him act as a tmo this series where he missed a couple of things.

Blind as a bat!

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Post by Old Man Fri 23 Jul - 10:31

Unfortunately hypocrisy, crying foul, blaming referees and TMO’s are part and parcel of Rugby Union.

It somehow makes us justify a loss, make excuses and seems to sustain the bubbles of unintended and sadly unacknowledged bias.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 23 Jul - 10:34

Old Man wrote:Unfortunately hypocrisy, crying foul, blaming referees and TMO’s are part and parcel of Rugby Union.

It somehow makes us justify a loss, make excuses and seems to sustain the bubbles of unintended and sadly unacknowledged bias.

Bah. It's just another part of the rugby discussion. Flip side of the coin is of course unacknowledged mistakes and turning a blind eye!

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Post by Old Man Fri 23 Jul - 10:35

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Old Man wrote:Unfortunately hypocrisy, crying foul, blaming referees and TMO’s are part and parcel of Rugby Union.

It somehow makes us justify a loss, make excuses and seems to sustain the bubbles of unintended and sadly unacknowledged bias.

Bah. It's just another part of the rugby discussion. Flip side of the coin is of course unacknowledged mistakes  and turning a blind eye!

Well that is part and parcle when we live in our own bubbles, isn’t it?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 23 Jul - 10:43

Definitely the case that some don't judge on an incident but on which side of the road they're on.

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Post by Rugby Fan Fri 23 Jul - 10:53

I've heard a few pundits continue to say that Gatland is sticking two fingers up to Eddie Jones with his selections. Not sure that really holds water, as you could can make a case the other way too.

Choosing LCD over George is something Jones did in the last two 6N games. While George has long been his preferred choice, Jones has clearly been favouring LCD more of late.

Jones doesn't play Daly at centre, though he had plans to do so against Ireland, before Malins got injured, and forced him back to full back. However, Jones rates Daly and almost always wants him in his team. Gatland has evidently concluded the same.

Itoje, Lawes, Curry, and Watson are consistently selected by Jones. Many England supporters despair when they see Lawes at blind-side, and yet Gatland likes him there too. When Jones groomed Curry at eight, he was criticized for wasting his talent. On Saturday, it looks like Gatland is trusting Curry to cover No.8, if Conan gets crocked.

The selection of Simmonds was definitely not from Jones's playbook. For all his talent, though, Simmonds hasn't made much of a mark. It's far too early to say he never will. Still, this is another example of Gatland so far reaching the same conclusion as Jones. Similarly, although Farrell isn't starting tomorrow, if anything, Gatland has demonstrated he values the player in much the same way as Jones.

You can't expect the coaches to agree on everything. Still, they don't seem as far apart on player evaluation as some pundits would like to claim.

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Post by geoff999rugby Fri 23 Jul - 11:06

What is interesting in this Lions side is the fact that the back row contains two players who, if everyone was fit,
many would not put in their respective national starting XV.

In both cases I would include myself in that analysis

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Post by Old Man Fri 23 Jul - 11:06

Looks like Gatland is going all out to get SA players scrutinised for every 50/50 play

SA Rugbymag

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Post by Guest Fri 23 Jul - 11:08

I think Gatland's got better things to do than 'stick 2 fingers up to Eddie' when trying to put a Lions team together. Plus, you have other coaches on tour who all have their say in selection too.

Probably helps media outlets get some clicks on their news articles though.

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Post by protea438 Fri 23 Jul - 11:14

Old Man wrote:Looks like Gatland is going all out to get SA players scrutinised for every 50/50 play

SA Rugbymag

Top notch waterboy

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 23 Jul - 11:16

Old Man wrote:Looks like Gatland is going all out to get SA players scrutinised for every 50/50 play

SA Rugbymag

Either that, or we have another bloodbath on our hands.

PS, I know the Lions weren't clean in 2009 series either.

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Post by Old Man Fri 23 Jul - 11:23

mikey_dragon wrote:
Old Man wrote:Looks like Gatland is going all out to get SA players scrutinised for every 50/50 play

SA Rugbymag

Either that, or we have another bloodbath on our hands.

PS, I know the Lions weren't clean in 2009 series either.

Gatland seems a bit serious about this series , I wonder if the stress is getting to him.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 23 Jul - 11:24

Yep, the series will be vicious. Like Psycho on a rugby field.

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Post by Rugby Fan Fri 23 Jul - 11:40

Old Man wrote:Gatland seems a bit serious about this series , I wonder if the stress is getting to him.
If anything, he seemed more stressed four years ago, when the NZ press were really laying into him.

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Post by Old Man Fri 23 Jul - 11:42

Rugby Fan wrote:
Old Man wrote:Gatland seems a bit serious about this series , I wonder if the stress is getting to him.
If anything, he seemed more stressed four years ago, when the NZ press were really laying into him.

I think he knows this is his last chance to beat SA, so he is pulling out every advantage he could. If a card can help, he’ll take it

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Post by BigGee Fri 23 Jul - 11:46

Old Man wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:
Old Man wrote:Gatland seems a bit serious about this series , I wonder if the stress is getting to him.
If anything, he seemed more stressed four years ago, when the NZ press were really laying into him.

I think he knows this is his last chance to beat SA, so he is pulling out every advantage he could. If a card can help, he’ll take it


To be fair, I think any team would?

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