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World T20 discussion thread

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 09 Sep 2021, 11:18 am

First topic message reminder :

This is fast approaching in the UAE, and squads are beginning to be announced. England have announced theirs this morning

England's preliminary squad for the World T20;

Jason Roy
Jos Buttler
Dawid Malan
Jonny Bairstow
Liam Livingstone
Eoin Morgan
Sam Billings
Moeen Ali
Sam Curran
Chris Woakes
David Willey
Adil Rashid
Mark Wood
Chris Jordan
Tymal Mills

Reserves: James Vince, Liam Dawson, Tom Curran

Looks a solid squad, albeit the team has taken a hit in recent months with Archer's injury and then Stokes's withdrawal from international duty.
Billings in as the main batting backup, makes sense to me. He's played well in limited opportunity the past few summers.
I am a touch surprised both Woakes and Willey are in the squad...seems like they both do the same role to me?
Seems harsh, but happy no Tom Curran. He's not played well enough to be included.
I see some "why no Parkinson?" and it does seem a tad weird he isn't in reserve...but ultimately in T20 can you afford to carry someone like him, who while is a good bowler, is a liability in the field and offers absolutely nothing with the bat. I can see why Dawson is the chosen reserve over him, with those considerations.

I think the likely XI is;

Roy
Buttler
Malan
Bairstow
Livingstone
Morgan
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Wood
Mills

The real selection choices in there are between Woakes/Jordan, and Moeen/Sam Curran. Rest looks fairly set in stone to me
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Post by king_carlos Sat 23 Oct 2021, 2:05 pm

I've missed the game but seeing that Aussie bowling lineup keep SA to 118 I'm guessing it's very tough batting conditions?

Getting that feeling more and more that we're in for a low scoring and tense tournament.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 23 Oct 2021, 2:07 pm

South Africa probably favourites now. Not easy to get in and tee off on these slow wickets, a target of 119 here would be about 140-145 on a usual English pitch.

Australia did experience a chase similar to this in the warm-ups, cruising v NZ before a collapse, then the very lower order dragged them over the line.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 23 Oct 2021, 2:15 pm

18th and 20th will have to be bowled by Pretorious.

11 from that Rabada over should mean Australia make it. Bavuma would have been desperate for one more wicket to get at Cummins when he brought Rabada back for the 17th rather than the all important 19th over.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 23 Oct 2021, 2:20 pm

That might be the turning point - Markram missing the catch off of Wade and it went through for four. Could have been 86/6.

Still 18 needed off of 12. In the balance.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 23 Oct 2021, 2:21 pm

I'd say the catch was short to be fair. If Markam isn't getting there then not many fielders would! It going for 4 was significant though certainly.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 23 Oct 2021, 2:22 pm

SA need something big from Nortje in this over. His figures so far are brilliant. That bodes well for Mark Wood as he will bowl in a similar style to Nortje.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 23 Oct 2021, 2:33 pm

Australia over the line with two balls left. Good game. Tipped Bangladesh and South Africa to make the semis, both lost their opening games. Doesn't bode well for England and India!

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Post by alfie Sat 23 Oct 2021, 2:35 pm

Got there in the end (as to be honest I always thought they would) but Australia made heavy weather of it. If Wade had been caught instead of getting the four off Rabada they might have fallen short. Do think SA should have brought up a couple of fielders instead of conceding singles late on but it probably wouldn't have saved them...118 is pretty hard to defend !

So does this mean two fairly rubbish batting teams or is this going to be a very low scoring tournament ?

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Post by king_carlos Sat 23 Oct 2021, 2:41 pm

England win the toss and bowl first. Big toss for England as they like chasing plus the dew will be a factor.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 23 Oct 2021, 2:44 pm

Malan plays. Wood not fit which is massive.

1.Buttler 2.Roy 3.Malan 4.Bairstow 5.Morgan 6.Livingstone 7.Moeen 8.Woakes 9.Jordan 10.Rashid 11.Mills

I'm really not convinced by that bowling lineup. No Wood is a big blow. Delighted that Mills is playing though.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 23 Oct 2021, 2:48 pm

Woof that bowling lineup is…yeah, not good
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Post by king_carlos Sat 23 Oct 2021, 2:54 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Woof that bowling lineup is…yeah, not good

I'd go with less than ideal. Laugh

Fortunately the Windies bowling lineup is pretty weak as well.

A battle of two massive top 7s.

With the number of lefties the Windies have Mo and Livingstone's bowling could be important.

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Post by Pal Joey Sat 23 Oct 2021, 2:57 pm

I'm glad that one's out of the way. SA is always a tough ask first match.

Australia really needed to start this tournament well and they just managed to scrape over the line. They bowled very well earlier and SA seemed to lack confidence and also had some bad luck along with that comical run out which Guildford noted above.  Smile

Must admit I was feeling a bit disappointed when Maxwell played that risky shot when he was looking relatively in control with only 40 runs or so needed. One too many reverse sweeps, imo... especially against a crafty bowler such as Shamsi. Markram's catch to dismiss Smith was an absolute beauty. I still think Australia are very vulnerable. They always seem far too casual and have that knack of making things harder for themselves in this short format. Marsh's lob down VdD's throat a case in point. All that space and he finds the fielder...

The Australian win makes the group more interesting and puts pressure on some of the more fancied teams. I expect SA to take it up a notch in their next match v West Indies. It's a tough group indeed. Some fantastic games ahead like this next one. Good luck guys! OK
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Post by KP_fan Sat 23 Oct 2021, 2:58 pm

Top games are on now and this is the group of death with even qualifiers Lanka and BD so capable that either of them could go on to win the world cup

Eng v WI
WI are favorites
Eng are a very smart, organized and tactically suave team
BUT
the conditions, slow pitches, slow outfields can be overcome by one major skill and that's BRUTE POWER to plonk slower deliveries out of the park
and that's where WI outdoes Eng
60-40 in favour of WI
although bookies see it other wise and hence chance to make money

130 is Par in my view
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Post by guildfordbat Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:01 pm

Most of you folks know current world cricket and particularly the t20 format better than me? What's the West Indies fielding expected to be like? My immediate reaction on seeing their eleven is that could be their Achilles heel.

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Post by alfie Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:07 pm

Good old West Indies...they don't change. Don't care if they have three or four dots per over if they can hit enough sixes...

Worked last time.

England bowling going to be a bit reliant on the spinners with no Wood or Willey. But there's the start they wanted with Lewis holing out off Woakes...

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Post by alfie Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:08 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Woof that bowling lineup is…yeah, not good

Bat deep though. Will fancy chasing anything.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:11 pm

England solid favourites after winning the toss - the toss is going to be a huge factor in these evening games.

Got an early wicket too, which is nice.

The dew factor is going to be incredibly tough for the West Indies to surmount in the second innings.

Don't think England's bowling is that weak, though it certainly isn't especially strong. Against non subcontinent sides the spin factor of Moeen/Rashid counts for extra.

Two early wickets!

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Post by alfie Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:13 pm

Wonder if this Moeen with the new ball is going to be a regular thing or is mainly for this opponent ?

Has been successful so far as Simmons took him on and just found Livingstone...

9/2. Not sure KP_fan's value bet is looking so brilliant right now Smile

Early days. We will see.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:13 pm

alfie wrote:Got there in the end (as to be honest I always thought they would) but Australia made heavy weather of it.  If Wade had been caught instead of getting the four off Rabada they might have fallen short. Do think SA should have brought up a couple of fielders instead of conceding singles late on but it probably wouldn't have saved them...118 is pretty hard to defend !

So does this mean two fairly rubbish batting teams or is this going to be a very low scoring tournament ?

Lower scoring than most, in all probability. The pitches are slow, tough for the batsmen to tee off straight from the off (as the West Indies are currently demonstrating), but the dew factor and some smaller boundaries may bring it back slightly in the batsmen's favour.

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Post by JDizzle Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:15 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Most of you folks know current world cricket and particularly the t20 format better than me? What's the West Indies fielding expected to be like? My immediate reaction on seeing their eleven is that could be their Achilles heel.

I’ll let others comment on the fielding, but there is one area where England fans might think they have the advantage (but I am not so sure) is captain. Whenever I have seen Pollard fill in that role for the Mumbai Indians he has done a very, very shrewd job. He certainly has years of T20 experience.

Hetmyer walks out in a cap, faces four balls and then has to have his helmet run out. It’s an absolute pet hate of mine. Genuinely ridiculous.

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Post by eirebilly Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:16 pm

This is some start from England but would prefer to see that back of Gayle, he can destroy quickly.
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Post by JDizzle Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:18 pm

England had the Windies 11-3 in the 2016 Final - so Windies ahead of the game here!

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Post by king_carlos Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:18 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Most of you folks know current world cricket and particularly the t20 format better than me? What's the West Indies fielding expected to be like? My immediate reaction on seeing their eleven is that could be their Achilles heel.

I'm not too sure on their bowlers but the top 7 has some exceptional fielders then Gayle who isn't the most mobile these days. Russell's knees will hamper him too.

That said Mills back means he isn't dynamite in the field either whilst Malan is one of the poorer fielders in the England white ball sides. I wouldn't say this XI is as outstanding in the field as the '19 ODI side was for instance.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:19 pm

KP_fan wrote:Top games are on now and this is the group of death  with  even qualifiers Lanka and BD so capable that either of them could go on to win the world cup

Eng v WI
WI are favorites
Eng are a very smart, organized and tactically suave team
BUT
the conditions, slow pitches, slow outfields can be overcome by one major skill and that's  BRUTE POWER to plonk slower deliveries out of the park
and that's where WI outdoes Eng
60-40 in favour of WI
although bookies see it other wise and hence chance to make money

130 is Par in my view

Would never back the side batting first in these conditions pre-match, although at the halfway point there is a chance to back the team that batted first and get good value because bookmakers don't seem to recognise the lower-scoring in this tournament (it was the same in the IPL).

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Post by alfie Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:21 pm

Moeen having a third over...

Might be one too many as Hetmyer seems to have his number...ha ! Two fours and out !

Good choice Cap'n Morgan Smile

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Post by JDizzle Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:25 pm

England still have 8 overs of their (supposed) death bowlers in Jordan and Mills left for when Dre Russ and Pollard arrive.

Although - here is Mills. I remember him getting Gayle with a thunderbolt at Sussex when Gayle was at Somerset. England hoping he repeats the trick!

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Post by alfie Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:26 pm

27/3 off five. Still plenty of hitting power left...but England will be happy with that start.

Mills gets his chance now. Starting pretty well...

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Post by Duty281 Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:26 pm

Three wickets in the PP, shouldn't be losing from here.

Gayle, the dot ball King and only in the team for sentimentality reasons, is the least frightening of the top seven. He's also a very poor runner which further hinders his team.

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Post by eirebilly Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:30 pm

This really isnt going to last long is it...

4 overs on the trot for Moeen Very Happy
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Post by alfie Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:30 pm

And Mills does for Gayle ...

With the aid of a good catch by Malan : who just held up a sign for King Carlos "care to reconsider that earlier comment ?" Smile

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Post by eirebilly Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:32 pm

Stunning for Moeen, what a player thumbsup
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Post by JDizzle Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:33 pm

2-17 off four overs for England’s fifth bowler in Moeen. Gives them so much flexibility now they aren’t worrying about that. Livingstone can be used for particularly favourable match ups - although not many of them to come!

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Post by king_carlos Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:35 pm

alfie wrote:And Mills does for Gayle ...

With the aid of a good catch by Malan : who just held up a sign for King Carlos "care to reconsider that earlier comment ?" Smile

Laugh Even Tuffers held onto some Whistle

Windies have the same issue with Gayle at 3 as England do with Malan. Both like to start slow then accelerate. In low scoring games can you wast PP balls doing that though? It hasn't come off for Gayle today.

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Post by alfie Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:37 pm

So Moeen finishes his four with 2/17 : top effort clap

Jordan next : I think he could be the weakest link in this attack but we will see.

But he's off to a great start anyway as Bravo falls immediately! Nothing special on the ball but a loose shot and a sharp low catch to Bairstow...England catching has been excellent today. thumbsup

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Post by Duty281 Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:37 pm

When that one sticks for Bairstow you know it's all going England's way.

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Post by eirebilly Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:38 pm

West India will struggle to make 80 to 100 from here. Quite poor actually.
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Post by JDizzle Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:41 pm

Be interesting to see how Pollard, Pooran and Russel play Rashid when he is introduced shortly. You’d think they’d knock him about but they generally only know one way…

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:42 pm

eirebilly wrote:West India will struggle to make 80 to 100 from here. Quite poor actually.

Not sure I’d say that Billy with Russell still in the hutch to come! (And these two at the crease)
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Post by alfie Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:42 pm

king_carlos wrote:
alfie wrote:And Mills does for Gayle ...

With the aid of a good catch by Malan : who just held up a sign for King Carlos "care to reconsider that earlier comment ?" Smile

Laugh Even Tuffers held onto some Whistle

Windies have the same issue with Gayle at 3 as England do with Malan. Both like to start slow then accelerate. In low scoring games can you wast PP balls doing that though? It hasn't come off for Gayle today.

Think it is fair to say Gayle is well past his prime... Can come off now and then but I agree he is a bit of a luxury pick for WI. He has to field too...

Good point about Tufnell. Remember him taking an absolute blinder on the fence at Sydney . Think it was Dyson ? Poor chap walked off shaking his head Smile

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Post by eirebilly Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:44 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
eirebilly wrote:West India will struggle to make 80 to 100 from here. Quite poor actually.

Not sure I’d say that Billy with Russell still in the hutch to come! (And these two at the crease)
No momentum and they look very poor. Another wicket now and they are well under 100.

And there it is...
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Post by alfie Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:45 pm

Bit ragged this over from Mills. Three wides is overdoing it...

So of course he gets a wicket next ball Cool

42/6 ? Blimey...

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:46 pm

England all over the Windies like a cheap birthday suit. Windies now 42 for 6 from 9 overs.
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Post by king_carlos Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:48 pm

Great start to the tournament for Mills. Such an important component for the England attack.

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Post by guildfordbat Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:49 pm

king_carlos wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Most of you folks know current world cricket and particularly the t20 format better than me? What's the West Indies fielding expected to be like? My immediate reaction on seeing their eleven is that could be their Achilles heel.

I'm not too sure on their bowlers but the top 7 has some exceptional fielders then Gayle who isn't the most mobile these days. Russell's knees will hamper him too.

That said Mills back means he isn't dynamite in the field either whilst Malan is one of the poorer fielders in the England white ball sides. I wouldn't say this XI is as outstanding in the field as the '19 ODI side was for instance.

Hi Carlos - When Ravi Rampaul was at Surrey and I think he left as far back as 2017, he was a very likeable figure* but hardly the embodiment of athleticism. It was said the only race he could win was to be first in for lunch! Four years on from that, and he's in this world tournament, hmm.

Add to that, the ageing Gayle and Bravo plus, as you say, Russell's knees and a fair bit of timber seeming to be on display amongst the batters - that's where I was coming from anyway.

* How can you not like a player you see walking to the ground with his wife and pushing his baby in a pram? Laugh


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Post by alfie Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:53 pm

Pollard starting cautiously. Guess he has to as it's just about all on him now. He will need to fire if they're to get anything halfway decent from here.
Presume we will see Rashid after the drink break. He won't be an easy target.

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Post by JDizzle Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:54 pm

I would say Russell has not picked that googly - but that is an understatement!

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Post by eirebilly Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:54 pm

The West Indies have been savaged here. May as well just swing the bat at anything now and try to get to at least 80.

Not good news for England's batters as they will not get a decent run out today.
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Post by alfie Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:54 pm

Rashid it is ... And exit Russell first ball ! Seven down...

At this rate I might get a fairly early night Smile

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 23 Oct 2021, 3:55 pm

West Indies will do very well from here (44 for 7) to reach triple figures.
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