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World T20 discussion thread

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 09 Sep 2021, 11:18 am

First topic message reminder :

This is fast approaching in the UAE, and squads are beginning to be announced. England have announced theirs this morning

England's preliminary squad for the World T20;

Jason Roy
Jos Buttler
Dawid Malan
Jonny Bairstow
Liam Livingstone
Eoin Morgan
Sam Billings
Moeen Ali
Sam Curran
Chris Woakes
David Willey
Adil Rashid
Mark Wood
Chris Jordan
Tymal Mills

Reserves: James Vince, Liam Dawson, Tom Curran

Looks a solid squad, albeit the team has taken a hit in recent months with Archer's injury and then Stokes's withdrawal from international duty.
Billings in as the main batting backup, makes sense to me. He's played well in limited opportunity the past few summers.
I am a touch surprised both Woakes and Willey are in the squad...seems like they both do the same role to me?
Seems harsh, but happy no Tom Curran. He's not played well enough to be included.
I see some "why no Parkinson?" and it does seem a tad weird he isn't in reserve...but ultimately in T20 can you afford to carry someone like him, who while is a good bowler, is a liability in the field and offers absolutely nothing with the bat. I can see why Dawson is the chosen reserve over him, with those considerations.

I think the likely XI is;

Roy
Buttler
Malan
Bairstow
Livingstone
Morgan
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Wood
Mills

The real selection choices in there are between Woakes/Jordan, and Moeen/Sam Curran. Rest looks fairly set in stone to me
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Post by guildfordbat Fri 22 Oct 2021, 11:56 am

Both openers gone and runs driyng up. 75/2 off 11. That's 20/2 off the last 5. Good and sensible player that Balbirnie is, he's more suited to playing side saddle than master blaster. He'll need to try and push on soon ....

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 22 Oct 2021, 12:03 pm

94-2 off 14 now, both Balbirnie and Delany have got a bit stuck here. Needs an acceleration from one soon
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 22 Oct 2021, 12:05 pm

Delany gone for 9 (18) bowled by Wiese now - a bit of a yikes innings that. Namibia with a chance to restrict Ireland to something very chaseable here
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Post by eirebilly Fri 22 Oct 2021, 12:19 pm

Absolutely fuming at this approach from Ireland. The bowling has been good from Namibia but not great. Ireland have just been poor in their approach.

Another wicket gone now and Ireland may not even reach 120.

They do not deserve to go through.
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Post by guildfordbat Fri 22 Oct 2021, 12:25 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Delany gone for 9 (18) bowled by Wiese now - a bit of a yikes innings that. Namibia with a chance to restrict Ireland to something very chaseable here

Sadly for Ireland, looks very much so.

You've probably got this on your bingo card, Olly - ''If he bats 12 overs, we win the game'', Alec Stewart some time back responding to a Surrey supporter grumbling about Jason Roy's t20 performances for Surrey. Meantime, Paul Sirling went today after 7.2 overs. Ireland really needed him to bat a dozen overs.

Anyway, great credit to Namibia who have bowled and caught very well since the power play.

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Post by eirebilly Fri 22 Oct 2021, 12:29 pm

Ireland will finish 25-30 runs short of a possible winning score here.

After loosing the openers they never kept the momentum, the simply handed to momentum to Namibia on a plate. You cannot win T20 games with this approach.
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Post by guildfordbat Fri 22 Oct 2021, 12:29 pm

eirebilly wrote:Absolutely fuming at this approach from Ireland. The bowling has been good from Namibia but not great. Ireland have just been poor in their approach.

Another wicket gone now and Ireland may not even reach 120.

They do not deserve to go through.

Hiya Billy - understand your frustration but let your bowlers have a go with the ball before packing their bags.

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Post by eirebilly Fri 22 Oct 2021, 12:31 pm

Howya Guildford, I love your optimism but Ireland are out.

I would love to be proven wrong but i think Namibia will knock these runs off within 17 overs.
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Post by alfie Fri 22 Oct 2021, 12:33 pm

Only tuned in late in this innings - but I have the feeling this might be getting a little difficult to bat on after the early overs with a hard ball ?
Obviously Ireland will be most disappointed with the way they've fallen away with the bat but maybe if they bowl really well defending this might not be impossible.

A few more off this last over would be handy...

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Post by eirebilly Fri 22 Oct 2021, 12:36 pm

Well thats a last ball that Namibia wont want to watch back.

Still think that Ireland are 25 to 30 runs too light. It will take some bowling performance in the first 6 to put Namibia under any pressure.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 22 Oct 2021, 12:38 pm

125 for Ireland off their 20 overs - definitely not an undefendable score on this wicket as we've seen through the IPL, but Ireland would have wanted at least 140 from their position after the powerplay. Thought in the middle overs they hit the infield and failed to rotate strike enough

Good running off the final ball - as ever, always run no matter what final ball, you never know if the opposition will muck it up!
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Post by Duty281 Fri 22 Oct 2021, 12:41 pm

125, it's not a terrible score but probably at least 15 light. If I hadn't seen Namibia chase down 165 a couple of days ago then I'd probably back Ireland in this position.

Let's see how Namibia cope with the pressure of a knockout chase.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 22 Oct 2021, 12:44 pm

alfie wrote:Only tuned in late in this innings - but I have the feeling this might be getting a little difficult to bat on after the early overs with a hard ball ?  
Obviously Ireland will be most disappointed with the way they've fallen away with the bat but maybe if they bowl really well defending this might not be impossible.

A few more off this last over would be handy...

Hi Alfie - yep, I saw the innings and agree with your feeling.

I don't think Ireland are as out of it as Billy but agree with him that Ireland are behind at the half-way stage.

I would guess their 125 is 10 to 15 short of par. If I'm right on that and if they do bowl and field really well - in line with your post, Alfie - they could still go through.

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Post by eirebilly Fri 22 Oct 2021, 12:46 pm

I do think Ireland are out of this. They just do not have the bowling power to restrict Namibia even though Namibia are down a batsmen.

Just frustrated here lads as I was hoping for Ireland to go through.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 22 Oct 2021, 1:09 pm

This is really poor from Green - seen in the IPL and earlier, you have to attack the powerplay at Sharjah and he's just patting the ball back for no runs scoring at less than a strike rate of 50.
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Post by alfie Fri 22 Oct 2021, 1:12 pm

Ireland doing well in the power play...

25 off five and now the first wicket. Good one to get too as Williams was looking dangerous.

Nice catch OK

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Post by alfie Fri 22 Oct 2021, 1:19 pm

Missed a trick now though : that looked so out - cannot believe they didn't take the review !

And now Adair is crocked...

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Post by Duty281 Fri 22 Oct 2021, 1:20 pm

Why were Ireland not properly up for that appeal? Was absolutely bang in front.

They're well in this, though. Namibia look unsure as to how to approach the chase.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 22 Oct 2021, 1:29 pm

Duty281 wrote:Why were Ireland not properly up for that appeal? Was absolutely bang in front.

They're well in this, though. Namibia look unsure as to how to approach the chase.

Hi Duty - I couldn't understand that either. Not a proper answer but I wonder if they were concerned by Adair's injury and just wanted to try and complete the over as quickly as possible.

A big blow for Ireland having Adair and Stirling off the field but they're still doing well. Namibia 41/1 off 9. Need 85 off 11, not a walk in the park here by any means.

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Post by alfie Fri 22 Oct 2021, 1:35 pm

49/1 off ten. Pretty open, this. The bats ran well that last over and got some needed runs but they're still behind the clock a bit.
Only one down though so they can take some risks - they will have to !

Ireland doing well but might need a couple of wickets.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 22 Oct 2021, 1:39 pm

Yes, I think Ireland are ahead at the moment, even though they've only taken one wicket. Namibia have been too negative, sometimes teams are when asked to chase a low total, now the RRR has shot up to 8 which isn't easy with how slow the pitch is. Plus Ireland have already got through a few overs from their weaker bowlers.

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Post by alfie Fri 22 Oct 2021, 1:40 pm

O'Brien doing a splendid job...losing Adair might actually work out well for Ireland.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 22 Oct 2021, 1:43 pm

Duty281 wrote:Yes, I think Ireland are ahead at the moment, even though they've only taken one wicket. Namibia have been too negative, sometimes teams are when asked to chase a low total, now the RRR has shot up to 8 which isn't easy with how slow the pitch is. Plus Ireland have already got through a few overs from their weaker bowlers.

Yep - way too negative in the power play and now Ireland are firm favourites here. Going to need Wiese to do what he did the other day…
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Post by alfie Fri 22 Oct 2021, 1:51 pm

Good over there for Namibia. Can't be short on this . Reckon this chase is till on - only needs a few boundaries.

Lot resting on Campher's remaining overs I think.

And there is the wicket !

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Post by Duty281 Fri 22 Oct 2021, 1:59 pm

In T20 (and 50 over stuff) a fielding side can take 'bad' wickets. That was a bad wicket to take. Two batsmen struggling and doing little; one of them gets out and is replaced by Weise who is crushing everything.

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Post by alfie Fri 22 Oct 2021, 2:03 pm

Some poor bowling and a couple of good hits and Namibia are favourites ...

And no "luck of the Irish" here as the bails won't fall off after a solid whack !

Ireland need some bowling magic now.

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Post by alfie Fri 22 Oct 2021, 2:22 pm

Namibia ended up getting through with an over or so to spare...good knock from Erasmus , with those two sixes from Wiese really setting it up for the finish. Deserved the win.

Ireland battled well but they needed to get some wickets in the middle and it just didn't happen. They did indeed prove to be about 10-15 runs light.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 22 Oct 2021, 3:14 pm

Incredibly disappointing for Ireland not to make it through to the Super 12s. Superb achievement for Namibia at this their first ever World T20.

We know the make up of the Super 12 now. Both groups very competitive.

Can't pick the two semi-finalists from Group 1 - any two of England/South Africa/West Indies/Bangladesh are, I think, the realistic contenders, but narrowing it down any further is tough. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see semi-final places decided on NRR in that Group.

Group 2, I think India have a spot safely locked in. Any other team, apart from Namibia, has a decent chance of being the other semi-finalists. NZ have bits of quality, Afghanistan and Pakistan can blow hot and cold with the batting, Scotland shouldn't be afraid of any team other than India. It's very well poised.

Great weekend to start the Super 12s, with India v Pakistan on Sunday and the destructive batting line-ups of England v West Indies on Saturday being the highlights.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 22 Oct 2021, 3:24 pm

Duty281 wrote:In T20 (and 50 over stuff) a fielding side can take 'bad' wickets. That was a bad wicket to take. Two batsmen struggling and doing little; one of them gets out and is replaced by Weise who is crushing everything.

I wonder if/when we may see a T20 side around the world try to implement "tactical drops" - there is no way that Green (who was barely hitting it off the square all innings) sees Namibia home there, Wiese coming in was exactly what Namibia would have wanted.

Anyways, massive congratulations to Namibia! A superb achievement to qualify from that group. Disappointing for Ireland, no real spin option was always going to be tough to overcome and so it proved.
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Post by guildfordbat Fri 22 Oct 2021, 6:08 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:In T20 (and 50 over stuff) a fielding side can take 'bad' wickets. That was a bad wicket to take. Two batsmen struggling and doing little; one of them gets out and is replaced by Weise who is crushing everything.

I wonder if/when we may see a T20 side around the world try to implement "tactical drops" - there is no way that Green (who was barely hitting it off the square all innings) sees Namibia home there, Wiese coming in was exactly what Namibia would have wanted.

Anyways, massive congratulations to Namibia! A superb achievement to qualify from that group. Disappointing for Ireland, no real spin option was always going to be tough to overcome and so it proved.

In the 1979 60 over WC Final, Geoff Boycott was pootling and getting England nowhere near to the West Indies total when he lobbed up a ball from Viv Richards to Clive Lloyd. Although usually an excellent fielder, the West Indies skipper spilled the easy chance. Lloyd later denied accusations that his drop was deliberate but acknowledged ''it would not have been a bad tactic.''

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Post by king_carlos Fri 22 Oct 2021, 6:59 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:In T20 (and 50 over stuff) a fielding side can take 'bad' wickets. That was a bad wicket to take. Two batsmen struggling and doing little; one of them gets out and is replaced by Weise who is crushing everything.

I wonder if/when we may see a T20 side around the world try to implement "tactical drops" - there is no way that Green (who was barely hitting it off the square all innings) sees Namibia home there, Wiese coming in was exactly what Namibia would have wanted.

Anyways, massive congratulations to Namibia! A superb achievement to qualify from that group. Disappointing for Ireland, no real spin option was always going to be tough to overcome and so it proved.

I expect that the we will see players getting retired out in those circumstances at some point in T20 cricket. A few analysts have mentioned teams discussing it already but no one wants to be the first through the gate. I can see it being done fairly soon though.

If you've got a player like Wiese in next with a batsman at the crease struggling that much then there is a fair line of thought to ask, "why even tell a guy who can't get it off the square to swing at everything for boom or bust?", more likely it goes nowhere and you waste more deliveries.

I could see it first done with pinch hitters when they don't come off. It's not uncommon to see a pinch hitter sent in when for instance an off spinner is on as that hitter can smash off spin. First ball he cloths one to deep midwicket, the opposition take the off spinner out the attack and now you've got a pinch hitter who can only hit off spin facing anything else.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 22 Oct 2021, 7:13 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:In T20 (and 50 over stuff) a fielding side can take 'bad' wickets. That was a bad wicket to take. Two batsmen struggling and doing little; one of them gets out and is replaced by Weise who is crushing everything.

I wonder if/when we may see a T20 side around the world try to implement "tactical drops" - there is no way that Green (who was barely hitting it off the square all innings) sees Namibia home there, Wiese coming in was exactly what Namibia would have wanted.

Anyways, massive congratulations to Namibia! A superb achievement to qualify from that group. Disappointing for Ireland, no real spin option was always going to be tough to overcome and so it proved.

In the 1979 60 over WC Final, Geoff Boycott was pootling and getting England nowhere near to the West Indies total when he lobbed up a ball from Viv Richards to Clive Lloyd. Although usually an excellent fielder, the West Indies skipper spilled the easy chance. Lloyd later denied accusations that his drop was deliberate but acknowledged ''it would not have been a bad tactic.''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoOsa_DPhK0&t=87s&ab_channel=MartinShaw

I was watching that clip of Duncan Spencer bowling for Kent against Glamorgan in Viv's last season. The ludicrously late no ball call when Viv spoons up the return catch for Spencer is some true Nineties county cricket umpiring. No way was the umpire letting the main draw get out that early! Laugh

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Post by Duty281 Fri 22 Oct 2021, 10:21 pm

Cricinfo of the view that England's probable team tomorrow, with a lot up for debate, will see Mills in and Malan out.

England (probable): 1 Jason Roy, 2 Jos Buttler (wk), 3 Jonny Bairstow, 4 Moeen Ali, 5 Liam Livingstone, 6 Eoin Morgan (capt), 7 David Willey/Chris Woakes, 8 Chris Jordan, 9 Adil Rashid, 10 Mark Wood, 11 Tymal Mills.

I'd be happy enough with that team, but think Willey's earned a place in the XI through the warm-ups and the toss-up place should be between Woakes and Jordan.

West Indies (probable): 1 Evin Lewis, 2 Lendl Simmons, 3 Chris Gayle, 4 Nicholas Pooran (wk), 5 Shimron Hetmyer, 6 Kieron Pollard, 7 Andre Russell, 8 Dwayne Bravo, 9 Akeal Hosein/Hayden Walsh Jr, 10 Obed McCoy, 11 Oshane Thomas/Ravi Rampaul.

The West Indies team from 1-7 just looks like they could bring biblical destruction down on the England bowling, but in turn the West Indian bowling itself doesn't look strong and England's batting from 1-5 could do likewise in the destruction stakes.

Very tough game to call, it's near enough a 50-50. England have played the West Indies five times in World T20 games and lost all five, including the 2016 final.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 22 Oct 2021, 11:00 pm

It will be a very batting heavy matchup. The Windies top 7 is pretty ludicrous. Especially 4-7. Whether their tactics of trying to hit so many sixes but not rotating the strike as much will work in these conditions is an interesting thing to find out.

That side with Willey ahead of Woakes would be my choice. Mills just has to play in this side. I would have Moeen at 3 and Bairstow at 4 though. Maybe not as important in this game given Windies only have one spinner but I like Bairstow at 4 in this tournament as he hits spin so well which will be vital in the middle overs.

I certainly hope England go bowling heavy with Willey or Woakes at 6 and dropping a batsman rather than batting heavy with Moeen and Livingstone at 6 and 7 but having to get at least 4 overs from them.

I'm not Jordan's biggest fan but with Archer injured I don't see England dropping him now.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 22 Oct 2021, 11:13 pm

If that West Indies batting line up fires like it potentially could then they win the tournament - simple as that for me.

Aussies have basically confirmed they’re going with the extra batter rather than extra bowler…which means one of Cummins or Hazlewood will miss out. I’m not sure I agree with that…I understand they have some form worries about the top order but you’re asking an awful lot of Zampa/Agar to bank on them as two of four frontline bowlers (with Maxwell, Stoinis, Marsh making up the other overs). I’d be leaving Wade out and playing both Cummins and Hazlewood personally (obviously rejigging the order accordingly)
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Post by alfie Sat 23 Oct 2021, 6:34 am

Really is a tough group this  ; can't rule anyone out so everyone will be keen to get early wins on the board. And England have drawn their t20 Nemesis ...

Suggestion is that West Indies might fancy going after England spinners so Morgan might prefer four pace men rather than settling for eight overs from his spin trio - despite the fact this pitch might be pretty spin friendly. So presumably Malan will likely be forced out (ironic given his status in World rankings in the format)and the batting left a bit short. I would certainly want Willey opening as the best chance of early wickets - which they'll want - and useful hitting power at seven. But I question , in line with Duty's post above , whether they couldn't include Woakes rather than Jordan as well ? Mills will bowl two at the death and I can't see why Woakes and Wood shouldn't share the other late overs...and it also gives a bit of batting insurance in the event of a collapse. So :

Roy, Buttler ,Bairstow ,Moeen, (or Moeen ,Bairstow) Livingstone, Morgan ,Willey, Woakes, Rashid, Wood ,Mills.

I do not really like that batting line-up because Moeen (and Livingstone) have pretty poor records at three and four ; so Malan would still be my preferred option at three. Just can't fit him in if you want the extra pace man ; so hope they can get away with it against West Indies and suspect Malan might return against some other opponents.

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Post by alfie Sat 23 Oct 2021, 6:39 am

Will be interesting to see how Australia go tonight. Have been all over the place in t20 lately and their plans seem a bit shaky ; but there is plenty of talent (especially if the off colour openers get cracking) so if they can get their act together I reckon they might trouble anyone.
Not predicting them as winners - or even finalists. Just saying unwise to write them off in advance.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 23 Oct 2021, 10:59 am

Aussies played a little media gamesmanship and only go in with one true spinner - I hope the batting lineup on BBC sport is wrong though, Steve Smith at 5 would be…yeah, not good (arguable whether he should be in ahead of Inglis anyways, definitely not if going to bat 5 imo)
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 23 Oct 2021, 11:22 am

South Africa in serious danger of not being able to choke in a knockout game if they bat like this throughout the tournament
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Post by eirebilly Sat 23 Oct 2021, 11:46 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:South Africa in serious danger of not being able to choke in a knockout game if they bat like this throughout the tournament
Oh dear but  laughing
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Post by guildfordbat Sat 23 Oct 2021, 12:01 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:South Africa in serious danger of not being able to choke in a knockout game if they bat like this throughout the tournament
Oh dear but  laughing

Hiya again Billy - shame that Ireland are out but good that you can now relax and enjoy the rest of the tournament! Very Happy thumbsup

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Post by guildfordbat Sat 23 Oct 2021, 12:09 pm

Maharaj at 8 - really?!

SA in shedloads of trouble at 82/6 after 14.

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Post by guildfordbat Sat 23 Oct 2021, 12:14 pm

Any replays of that run out should contain a health warning.

You could seriously hurt yourself laughing! Shocked Laugh

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Post by eirebilly Sat 23 Oct 2021, 1:25 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:South Africa in serious danger of not being able to choke in a knockout game if they bat like this throughout the tournament
Oh dear but  laughing

Hiya again Billy - shame that Ireland are out but good that you can now relax and enjoy the rest of the tournament! Very Happy thumbsup
Howya Guildford,

Honestly, Ireland did not deserve to go through and no bitterness from me. Very happy to see Namibia through if i am honest. I love the game having new countries represented.

I will go back to supporting England now thumbsup
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Post by Duty281 Sat 23 Oct 2021, 1:29 pm

Game on here, Aussie 38/3.

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Post by guildfordbat Sat 23 Oct 2021, 1:43 pm

Duty281 wrote:Game on here, Aussie 38/3.

51/3 after 10. SA battling hard but I just can't see them winning. Feel they would need to bowl Australia out and just don't see them taking another 7 wickets.

Anyway, I've got most things wrong up to now ....

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Post by alfie Sat 23 Oct 2021, 1:54 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Game on here, Aussie 38/3.

51/3 after 10. SA battling hard but I just can't see them winning. Feel they would need to bowl Australia out and just don't see them taking another 7 wickets.

Anyway, I've got most things wrong up to now ....

Agree Aussies have this in hand... Bit like Ireland yesterday , SA restrained them early : but they're just picking up singles at will through the middle and will do this easily unless they lose a bunch of wickets.

Which doesn't look likely. Smith doesn't need to take any risks.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 23 Oct 2021, 2:00 pm

Think Smith was just feeling a bit of pressure there, phenomenal grab from Markram.

Small window for South Africa.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 23 Oct 2021, 2:04 pm

Australia teetering a little now on 81 for 5. Saffers right in this.
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Post by alfie Sat 23 Oct 2021, 2:04 pm

My apologies to Steve...I hexed him good Smile

Really don't think he needed to play that. Some catch though !

Still fancy Australia...

Or do I ? Maxwell gone Shocked

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