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Fury - Wilder III - will include spoilers

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Post by Jeff Navarro Sat 09 Oct 2021, 12:23 am

First topic message reminder :

Fury weighs in a career heavy 277lbs - slightly misleading as he didn’t bother stripping down.
Wilder also at a career high 238lbs

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 12 Oct 2021, 11:06 am

I was luckily enough to watch it at work (with no sound) due to the delay....it was quite difficult not attracting attention to myself as I jump up and down on my seat! I'd have loved to have watch it with a few beers with the sound ramped up, it was an amazing fight.

I could literally nod off watching AJ, the only thing that keeps me awake is the chance he get knocked our or quite etc. Fury is just pure entertainment.

The 3 Fury/Wilder fights have stoked up the heavyweight division, the casual fans are coming back to the sport which can only be good.


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Post by No name Bertie Tue 12 Oct 2021, 11:07 am

Ps: I don't mind people hating on one boxer and saying he is a cheater - it makes no difference to me. But I learn that the first time they mention it, there is no need to mention it a hundred times as that just spams the thread.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 12 Oct 2021, 11:11 am

Derbymanc wrote:So what that he admitted it, he still cheated. So should be held to the same standards.

I'm glad you hold every boxer on that list to the same high standards and i look forward to reading your views when people post their top 10 boxers etc and of course your own.

As i've stated countless times I believe drug cheats should serve longer bans, should be looked at more when/if they come back and if they test positive more than once should be banned for life from being involved with boxing at all. But that's not the rules at the moment.

But if you want to, start a thread on drug cheats and we can discuss it on there instead of derailing this thread celebrating one of the best heavyweight match ups in years.


I'll post as I wish thank you. I'll call out a cheat for being a cheat on top of being a misogynistic, homophobic cretin. If you're happy to see someone like that at the forefront of boxing that says more about you than it does me.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 12 Oct 2021, 11:14 am

Ok Soul, I think we get your point.

If you feel so passionate about the topic, perhaps start a thread rather than derailing this one thumbsup

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Post by 88Chris05 Tue 12 Oct 2021, 1:23 pm

Just my two penneth on the PED stuff, because it's an ugly one to get drawn into and I probably won't say anything else afterwards....

It's a shame, but I can't really bring myself to feel any passion regarding the PED issue in boxing anymore. I think that ship has long since sailed and the idea of a clean sport, or anything even close to it, is a bit of a fantasy.

I also suspect the testing in place is very asymmetrical and designed to give certain fighters more leeway than others. Just like it influences fight venues, purse splits and getting the benefit of the doubt from judges, I think being a money man in your division, or the 'home' fighter, also affords you a little more protection and less scrutiny on this issue.

Not sure if anyone else was aware of this, but looking into the Lewis-Ruddock fight did get me thinking on this issue. The best part of 30 years ago, granted, but still the modern era. At the time the WBC did not prohibit steroid use (it was discouraged, but not banned) and as per the fight contract, Lewis was not obliged to be steroid-free and was not required to be tested in the run up to the fight. Ruddock on the other hand, as the overseas fighter, was. A few links below (some overlap between them, but together they paint the picture more or less).

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/30/sports/IHT-a-heavyweight-comedy-tests-the-english-humor.html

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/10/29/Lewis-Ruddock-spar-over-steroids/7345720334800/

https://www.tampabay.com/archive/1992/10/30/ruddock-lewis-spar-over-steroid-use/

That doesn't mean that Lewis was definitely juiced, or that Ruddock definitely wasn't. But it's an example of what I'm talking about. We see favouritism and rule-bending all the time in boxing regarding a number of things, some of which I've mentioned above. Why wouldn't that inconsistency and skulduggery carry over to or be reflected in drug testing as well? Does anyone think that Joshua is subjected to as stringent a testing programme as Povetkin or Usyk would be? Of course Oscar Valdez is going to be taking banned substances to suppress his diet and burn fat when he's trying to make weight. Now he's been caught, Stevenson's team will likely jump all over that fight - Valdez will be tested to within an inch of his life, whereas budding star and big-time prospect Stevenson will probably be left well enough alone in that regard.

Innocent until proven guilty and all that, I get it. No qualms with anyone who adopts that approach or who believes that the problem isn't as embedded as I do. But I look at the vascularity of some of these guys at the lower weights, the muscle they carry in such a cardio-intensive sport, how they are able to get a second (and third, sometimes even fourth) wind in a fight after putting their body through so much to cut down in weight, and I just can't believe it's genuine for the most part.

Hey, they are still talented and I believe that's still the biggest factor deciding fights. Clean as a whistle or all juiced to the gills, I suspect the same guys would largely rise to the top under both circumstances. I just have a hard time believing that any genuine world class fighter is totally, 100 per cent natural, even if some are still a lot more natural than others.


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Post by No name Bertie Tue 12 Oct 2021, 2:26 pm

When the glove claims arose on social media following the Fury - Wilder 2 fight - a person working in the field gave a brief summary of the history of glove tampering and how technology of glove making was researched and developed to prevent it - leading to the gloves approved today.  He mentioned some of the claims were ludicrous but in this day and age you get people believing anything they want such as 9/11 was an inside job.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Tue 12 Oct 2021, 2:48 pm

No name Bertie wrote:When the glove claims arose on social media following the Fury - Wilder 2 fight - a person working in the field gave a brief summary of the history of glove tampering and how technology of glove making was researched and developed to prevent it - leading to the gloves approved today.  He mentioned some of the claims were ludicrous but in this day and age you get people believing anything they want such as 9/11 was an inside job.

And those claims were not helped by another fanciful claim from Wilder saying his drink was spiked by his trainer in the second Fury bout.
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Post by Derbymanc Tue 12 Oct 2021, 3:03 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:So what that he admitted it, he still cheated. So should be held to the same standards.

I'm glad you hold every boxer on that list to the same high standards and i look forward to reading your views when people post their top 10 boxers etc and of course your own.

As i've stated countless times I believe drug cheats should serve longer bans, should be looked at more when/if they come back and if they test positive more than once should be banned for life from being involved with boxing at all. But that's not the rules at the moment.

But if you want to, start a thread on drug cheats and we can discuss it on there instead of derailing this thread celebrating one of the best heavyweight match ups in years.


I'll post as I wish thank you. I'll call out a cheat for being a cheat on top of being a misogynistic, homophobic cretin. If you're happy to see someone like that at the forefront of boxing that says more about you than it does me.

If you stopped letting even seeing the name Fury blind you to everything else you'd have noticed i said numerous times I don't like the guy, same as I don't like Mayweather, Pacquio, Resto and a bunch of others.

He's still boxing, still wowing the crowds and your just a tad embarassed on how good he's turned out.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 12 Oct 2021, 5:46 pm

I'm embarrassed that so called boxing fans turn a blind eye to cheating

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Post by Derbymanc Tue 12 Oct 2021, 5:50 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:I'm embarrassed that so called boxing fans turn a blind eye to cheating

I'm embarassed by the so called boxing fan that thinks Fury is the worst in a generation where most are asked if they want too and in a room of 3 people probably all 3 have done drugs.

Your an idiot if you think it's not wide spread, or you've never been round a gym. try it some time. Now go talk somewhere where people want to listen, find a guy called D4, he'll listen to you all day as long as you don't mention Manny mght have been on drugs.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 12 Oct 2021, 6:03 pm

Derbymanc wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I'm embarrassed that so called boxing fans turn a blind eye to cheating

I'm embarassed by the so called boxing fan that thinks Fury is the worst in a generation where most are asked if they want too and in a room of 3 people probably all 3 have done drugs.

Your an idiot if you think it's not wide spread, or you've never been round a gym. try it some time. Now go talk somewhere where people want to listen, find a guy called D4, he'll listen to you all day as long as you don't mention Manny mght have been on drugs.

You triggered again Den?

I've been in plenty of gyms in my time, Fury has tested positive anything else is just conjecture. I deal in facts, try it sometimes.

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Post by No name Bertie Tue 12 Oct 2021, 6:10 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:I'm embarrassed that so called boxing fans turn a blind eye to cheating
Are you embarrassed for the sport of boxing? They sanctioned this fight.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 12 Oct 2021, 6:26 pm

No name Bertie wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I'm embarrassed that so called boxing fans turn a blind eye to cheating
Are you embarrassed for the sport of boxing? They sanctioned this fight.

Yes I am. The fact no meaningful punishments are ever handed down for doping within boxing is ridiculous, it is the one sport that needs the toughest sanctions.

At least with Margarito he got a beating three times and whilst he shouldn't have been near a boxing ring ever again he paid for that. I wonder what his sight is like nowadays. I liked Mosley I must admit but again he made millions after admitting to doping. Alvarez got a tap on the wrist and his stamina which was once questionable has improved tenfold in recent years.

If a death occurs in boxing where doping played a part the calls for its banning will grow stronger and more justified. The Fury's doping and getting away with it makes the sport more dangerous. No other sport shrugs it's shoulders quite like boxing. Justin Gatland served two lengthy bans for doping, affecting his career and rightly so, he runs.

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Post by No name Bertie Tue 12 Oct 2021, 6:48 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I'm embarrassed that so called boxing fans turn a blind eye to cheating
Are you embarrassed for the sport of boxing? They sanctioned this fight.

Yes I am. The fact no meaningful punishments are ever handed down for doping within boxing is ridiculous, it is the one sport that needs the toughest sanctions.

At least with Margarito he got a beating three times and whilst he shouldn't have been near a boxing ring ever again he paid for that. I wonder what his sight is like nowadays. I liked Mosley I must admit but again he made millions after admitting to doping. Alvarez got a tap on the wrist and his stamina which was once questionable has improved tenfold in recent years.

If a death occurs in boxing where doping played a part the calls for its banning will grow stronger and more justified. The Fury's doping and getting away with it makes the sport more dangerous. No other sport shrugs it's shoulders quite like boxing. Justin Gatland served two lengthy bans for doping, affecting his career and rightly so, he runs.
I think in Cycling and maybe athletics blood passports have been introduced. I would guess that boxing as a sport has improved - for example development in the gloves, and boxing has come round to having VADA testing for fights, although this seems to be optional. Would be interesting to compare boxing with MMA. It is not just doping that has been an issue with boxing but the scorecards of judges at least that is the impression I get from others. As Chris above mentioned boxing is all about making money, without money there is no boxing.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 12 Oct 2021, 7:47 pm

I don't think boxing wants to do a lot about it if it's one of the money; had Golovkin failed a test before the Alvarez fight he would have been banned. It's difficult to give either Fury or Alvarez much credit without mentioning their doping past.

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Post by No name Bertie Tue 12 Oct 2021, 8:31 pm

Knowing what you know are you going to continue to support the sport of boxing by giving your time to it?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 12 Oct 2021, 8:37 pm

Boxing has always stunk...Dokes was coked up when he lost to Coetzee...Pryor had a black bottle..Starkey got caught by a left hook from Carnera that started in another State...Lou Duva knew someone in the Dempsey corner that told him there was a spike in his glove against Willard....Corbett v Sailor Tom was dodgy..Collins v Resto..Schelling got robbed against Sharkey..

Plaster of paris was all the rage back then.

and Flyweights can now knock out Welters..

Boxing is angelic these days...

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 12 Oct 2021, 8:52 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Knowing what you know are you going to continue to support the sport of boxing by giving your time to it?

Less and less by the year I find. I used to stay up to watch all the American cards but have long stopped doing it. Boxing has been broken for a long time.

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Post by No name Bertie Tue 12 Oct 2021, 8:55 pm

I am listening to a podcast reviewing the Fury v Wilder 3 fight.  They are saying that many with knowledge of these matters suggest that Wilder likely used steroids to put on muscle and also said Wilder had a "bubble" look that indicates he was on something.  For balance they raised the 2016 failed drugs test of Fury.  Then they offered the thought that the VADA testing was a joke in boxing, that it only occurred 8 weeks before the fight when the muscle would have already been put on.  They then brought up how a state funded doping system like in Russia was able to pass the VADA tests.  They then offered an opinion that drugs use could be extensive in boxing.

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Post by Derbymanc Tue 12 Oct 2021, 9:12 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I'm embarrassed that so called boxing fans turn a blind eye to cheating

I'm embarassed by the so called boxing fan that thinks Fury is the worst in a generation where most are asked if they want too and in a room of 3 people probably all 3 have done drugs.

Your an idiot if you think it's not wide spread, or you've never been round a gym. try it some time. Now go talk somewhere where people want to listen, find a guy called D4, he'll listen to you all day as long as you don't mention Manny mght have been on drugs.

You triggered again Den?

I've been in plenty of gyms in my time, Fury has tested positive  anything else is just conjecture. I deal in facts, try it sometimes.


Nah not triggered, whilst your still watching (and we all know you are) it's a view that counts so keeps the sport on the telly. I'd be absolutely happy to discuss everything just not on this thread.

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Post by Derbymanc Tue 12 Oct 2021, 9:17 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I'm embarrassed that so called boxing fans turn a blind eye to cheating
Are you embarrassed for the sport of boxing? They sanctioned this fight.

Yes I am. The fact no meaningful punishments are ever handed down for doping within boxing is ridiculous, it is the one sport that needs the toughest sanctions.

At least with Margarito he got a beating three times and whilst he shouldn't have been near a boxing ring ever again he paid for that. I wonder what his sight is like nowadays. I liked Mosley I must admit but again he made millions after admitting to doping. Alvarez got a tap on the wrist and his stamina which was once questionable has improved tenfold in recent years.

If a death occurs in boxing where doping played a part the calls for its banning will grow stronger and more justified. The Fury's doping and getting away with it makes the sport more dangerous. No other sport shrugs it's shoulders quite like boxing. Justin Gatland served two lengthy bans for doping, affecting his career and rightly so, he runs.


Bar the Marg comments I can get behind these comments 100 percent. Margarito may have got a beating but he got a huge payout as well, it's one of the reasons why i cannot stand Manny and all his holier than thou Love sacks.

Boxing should have much much higher sanctions for any and all cheating, be it judging, reffing etc, all of it chips away at the sport AND as you've said people put their lives on the line for it, if they're cheated out of a payday by a dodgy (I don't mean just bad, i mean dodgy as in the 95-95 card i the Courtenay fight) judge then that judge should be banned for life UNLESS they can explain to a panel why they gave the score they gave.

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Post by No name Bertie Tue 12 Oct 2021, 9:27 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:.... I've been in plenty of gyms in my time, Fury has tested positive  anything else is just conjecture. I deal in facts, try it sometimes.
You deal in selected facts. He got a two year ban which he served - fact. It was accepted that it was likely unintentional - fact. It was never proven to be intentionally taken - fact. He is no longer banned and hasn't since tested positive these are facts. His career was allowed to resume this is a fact. This thread concerns the Fury v Wilder 3 fight that is fact. We are currently now discussing an issue that concerns you rather than the fight itself this is a fact. A lot of our time has now been spent on something unrelated to the fight - also a fact.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 12 Oct 2021, 9:49 pm

No name Bertie wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:....  I've been in plenty of gyms in my time, Fury has tested positive  anything else is just conjecture. I deal in facts, try it sometimes.
You deal in selected facts.  He got a two year ban which he served - fact.  It was accepted that it was likely unintentional - fact.  It was never proven to be intentionally taken - fact.  He is no longer banned and hasn't since tested positive these are facts.  His career was allowed to resume this is a  fact.  This thread concerns the Fury v Wilder 3 fight that is fact.  We are currently now discussing an issue that concerns you rather than the fight itself this is a fact.  A lot of our time has now been spent on something unrelated to the fight - also a fact.

You could also stop replying but you need the last word so won't do that. He served a backdated two year ban which is meaningless and not actually a ban at all. Sorry but you do not unintentionally take Nandrolone, shows a real lack of understanding to even suggest such a thing.

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Post by catchweight Tue 12 Oct 2021, 10:06 pm

If its a clean sport one is after then boxing, like sprinting, cycling, weightlifting etc isnt going to fit the bill. There is an almost tacit understanding that the sport is lax to the point where high profile boxers can pick and choose what standard of regulation they want to comply with. Probably nobody likes it, but to pretend otherwise is kidology. Some of my favorite boxers of recent years (Holyfield & Morales e.g) were clearly doping. Many others Ive enjoyed watching likewise. And there is undoubtedly a whole host that dope regularly but are never exposed.

Plainly though, the issue is weaponised when it suits an argument and disregarded when it doesnt. Its a comfortable pretense to engage in attacking Fury over it. Translation is usually "I dont like him, hes proven me wrong so il use a failed drugs test to discredit him and retreat to a moral high ground". Fine if you are some sort of anti doping zealot or journalist looking to expose the sport for what it is. But mostly the same guys will be ranking known or obvious dopers in top 10 greatest lists etc without a peep. The charade doesnt really fool anyone and agree that its an unnecessary derailment of a topic.

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Post by No name Bertie Tue 12 Oct 2021, 11:13 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:....  I've been in plenty of gyms in my time, Fury has tested positive  anything else is just conjecture. I deal in facts, try it sometimes.
You deal in selected facts.  He got a two year ban which he served - fact.  It was accepted that it was likely unintentional - fact.  It was never proven to be intentionally taken - fact.  He is no longer banned and hasn't since tested positive these are facts.  His career was allowed to resume this is a  fact.  This thread concerns the Fury v Wilder 3 fight that is fact.  We are currently now discussing an issue that concerns you rather than the fight itself this is a fact.  A lot of our time has now been spent on something unrelated to the fight - also a fact.

You could also stop replying but you need the last word so won't do that. He served a backdated two year ban which is meaningless and not actually a ban at all. Sorry but you do not unintentionally take Nandrolone, shows a real lack of understanding to even suggest such a thing.
So you have just proven two things.  You are not in possession of all the facts of the case.  You have taken speculation to be fact.

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Post by kingraf Wed 13 Oct 2021, 2:30 pm

back in April/May. Be interesting to see who he fights. Having made $60m from this trilogy, you'd think he'll struggle to get up for a $1-3m tune up, at the same time I'm not sure what big name fighter represents enough cache to risk a third loss in a row on. Povetkin is retired. Whyte is pre occupied. Parker-Chisora happens in December. It's a relatively stacked division at the moment, though so there isn't a shortage of guys who might make the audience go "Oh right, that's whatsisname". Wallin has some clout from extending Fury with a cut which I'm not convinced doesn't lead to a stoppage if the tables are turned. Helenius just got off a fight series himself, and might be looking to cash out at 37-38. Will probably forgo all of these and pick Pianeta or Pulev or something
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Post by No name Bertie Wed 13 Oct 2021, 3:38 pm

It has been reported that the third round knockdown to Deontay Wilder left Wilder dazed throughout the rest of the fight, it affected his equilibrium and he felt uncoordinated at times. He said he tried to continue with the game plan - attacking Fury's body in order to switch it up later to the head - but he just wasn't able to do it - so he resorted back to his old style of focusing on the head. This helps to explain the change to Wilders performance from that first knockdown forward.

In the fourth round Wilder caught Fury flush for the first knockdown, and then sort of flush to the side of the head again for the second knockdown, but it seems the first knockdown resulted in him breaking his right hand - x-rays after the fight showed a compound fracture of the third metacarpal. Later in the fight he was seen holding his right hand between rounds.

He managed to last until sometime into the 11th round. It seems the Arizona Boxing state commission have suspended Wilder for 6 months in order for him to recover from the knockout (concussion) during which time he is not supposed to do any boxing training. It will also take some time for his metacarpal to repair, I guess they will have to pin it to get it to grow back together again.

He said if he had been allowed to go out on his "shield" in the second fight he may have felt a little better about that fight. It was quite clear that he wasn't quite himself for the second fight and that he himself felt he was able to continue being pinned on the rope in the seventh round and was frustrated to see the white towel being thrown into the ring to stop it. He never had a busted ear despite blood trickling out of it. It seems clear the second fight loss for various reasons was traumatic for him.

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Post by 88Chris05 Wed 13 Oct 2021, 3:56 pm

I don't think Wilder or his people will want to tread water at this stage of his career. I think he'll have a comeback fight in the Spring / Summer of 2022 and then look for a big fight. The loser of the Joshua-Usyk rematch (the winner will presumably be looking for Fury) would be good, particularly if it's Joshua as that would be an exciting, last-chance-saloon fight for them. Big pressure with a high chance of excitement.

If Usyk loses the rematch I don't think he'll have any concerns about getting in there with Wilder to quickly re-establish himself, as he said when he made the step up to Heavyweight that, out of the big three at the top of the division, he saw Wilder as the most beatable and the best fight for him, with Fury being the hardest.

Wilder lost with some credit and dignity (at least in the ring) so the defeat hasn't hurt his reputation or standing as much as I thought it might. He's probably only one more loss away from irrelevance, though, so I don't see him risking taking that loss against the gatekeepers or up and comers.
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Post by Jeff Navarro Wed 13 Oct 2021, 4:24 pm

A couple of notes on Wilder:
He broke his right hand and was supposed to have surgery today - as Chris says, Wilder’s manager says they want the loser of Usyk-Joshua.

Secondly if Wilder wants to jump the queue for another title run, he could fight Trevor Bryan for the secondary WBA title. Winning that makes Wilder WBA mandatory for the full title.

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Post by kingraf Thu 14 Oct 2021, 12:44 am

600k PPV for the fight. The last fight did 850k with 300k digital purchases. A similar split would probably mean 800k total buys. Pretty successful trilogy for all parties involved. First genuinely successful US heavyweight PPV since Lewis Tyson, and they got two of them.
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Post by No name Bertie Thu 14 Oct 2021, 9:18 am

Tyson Fury has been reported as saying he no longer has any motivation for boxing, that he has nothing more to prove to himself, and that he has one more fight that he is contractually obliged to take but after that he is likely done.  This is something he has been saying for ages.  I think before the first fight with Deontay Wilder he said he thought he only had about three fights left in him before retiring.  His father was urging him to retire after the second fight with Deontay Wilder but it seems that Fury was still keen to face AJ.   But now that AJ has lost his allure - being beaten twice - and the fact he has shown no interest in fighting Usyk, who he sees as being too small, it looks like this could be more or less it.  He says he is happy to be considered an enigma in the history of the sport dethroning the long reigns of two world champions in their own backyards then fading back into obscurity.  He also said the trilogy with Deontay Wilder has taken a lot out of him physically and mentally and with the losses of AJ taking the shine of AJ he no longer has the motivation to continue with top level boxing.

Personally I think this is probably for the best.  He never showed any motivation or intention to defend his belts and create legacy through having a long reign defending his titles.   So his mark in the history of the sport will be as an enigma, a short period disruptor, rather than as a boxing legend or great.

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Post by 88Chris05 Thu 14 Oct 2021, 1:43 pm

I'd take anything Fury says about retirement or his future with a very large pinch of salt. At various times recently he's talked about jacking it in soon as he feels he's got nothing left to prove and can't get motivated, and at others he's said he loves the challenge and sees himself carrying on until he's forty.

I suspect he probably is a little bored with it all now, and has trouble dedicating himself, but you could say the same for many active fighters I'm sure. Unlike Fury, though, most of them don't have the luxury of being definitely set for life in financial terms. He and his old man are already moaning about how he's got no motivation to get up for a mandatory against Wallin or Whyte, but come on, he only needs to get through that one fight (which a 70% Fury should do without too much bother) and he's got a mega fight awaiting him against the winner of Joshua-Usyk II.

The Joshua fight has lost some of its lustre (and if he loses again to Usyk it might well be dead in the water) but it would still be a big seller and would have a nice impact on how his CV reads given the lack of big names on it outside of Wladimir and Wilder. Even if Joshua does lose his rematch, a fight against Usyk with all the belts on the line would still be a hugely lucrative, historic and potentially fascinating fight.

This isn't like Roy Jones around the turn of the century, where you could understand his disillusionment and his thoughts of retirement as there were no mega money fights around for him and very few guys who he'd get all that much credit for beating. Once Fury gets past his mandatory defence there's a very obvious, absolutely huge fight to be made (regardless of whether it's against Joshua or Usyk) which will carry plenty of legacy points.

He only needs to stick around for another year, which I don't think is asking the world considering what he's already done and the rewards on offer.
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Post by No name Bertie Thu 14 Oct 2021, 2:33 pm

Have we ever had someone as open as Malik Scott in the Deontay Wilder camp - his post fight interview was incredibly open and interesting. In following the Tyson Fury - Wilder trilogy - I have been getting a deeper understanding and appreciation of the behind the scenes people especially the trainers.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 15 Oct 2021, 2:25 pm

Fury has depression the answers you get from him will depend on where his mood is at any given time.

I think Fury needs focus and discipline and I worry for him when his Boxing days are over..

Struggling to see how Whyte beats Tyson Fury... He is a better boxer than Wilder but not in Fury's class and hasn't got Wilder's punching power..

A dull decision awaits me thinks..

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri 15 Oct 2021, 3:14 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Have we ever had someone as open as Malik Scott in the Deontay Wilder camp - his post fight interview was incredibly open and interesting.  In following the Tyson Fury - Wilder trilogy - I have been getting a deeper understanding and appreciation of the behind the scenes people especially the trainers.

I think he should have pulled him out way before it ended. I can understand why he didn't given the narrative Wilder had created around Breland and the pressure, conscious or unconscious that this heaped on Scott but Wilder was finished long before the end. At least 9 minutes of unnecessary punches in the head from a massive unit. Wilder was done, probably dehydrated and was never going to win from the half way point.

Those are the kind of moments trainers really should do the right thing by their fighter.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by kingraf Fri 15 Oct 2021, 4:04 pm

88Chris05 wrote:

he's got no motivation to get up for a mandatory against Wallin or Whyte, but come on, he only needs to get through that one fight (which a 70% Fury should do without too much bother) and he's got a mega fight awaiting him against the winner of Joshua-Usyk II.


Did I imagine a pretty engaged Fury fail to put away Wallin, get cut up, and then hold on for dear life in the final round as Wallin used him as a speedbag wiyh blood gushing down his face or is motivated Tyson Fury reaching "Prime Mike Tyson" levels of mysticism?
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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 15 Oct 2021, 4:20 pm

I'd give Whyte a decent chance against Fury personally. He hits hard enough to stop him, has a good chin and has a decent skillet. I don't think Wilder hits anywhere near as hard as people assume

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Post by 88Chris05 Fri 15 Oct 2021, 4:27 pm

Let's not go overboard Raf. Wallin won maybe three rounds in that fight (as you mention, deserved the twelfth) and was getting pummelled and pushed all over the shop by a one-eyed Fury in the second half of it. Actually did tremendously well to stay upright and go the full twelve.

Fury won without being at his best and his subsequent performances against Wilder have been much better. The cuts nearly gave Wallin an improbable win but unless he slices open that eyebrow region again it's hard to see how he wins a rematch.

That said, I hope he beats Whyte and gets another shot.


Last edited by 88Chris05 on Fri 15 Oct 2021, 4:46 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Sounded a bit sarky at the start which wasn't intended)
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 15 Oct 2021, 6:38 pm

kingraf wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:

he's got no motivation to get up for a mandatory against Wallin or Whyte, but come on, he only needs to get through that one fight (which a 70% Fury should do without too much bother) and he's got a mega fight awaiting him against the winner of Joshua-Usyk II.


Did I imagine a pretty engaged Fury fail to put away Wallin, get cut up, and then hold on for dear life in the final round as Wallin used him as a speedbag wiyh blood gushing down his face or is motivated Tyson Fury reaching "Prime Mike Tyson" levels of mysticism?  

Whyte fight isn't like the Wallin fight...It will be in a stadium and Whyte has a big mouth.....

I imagine Fury will find motivation for it....Especially the thought of losing to a fellow Brit.

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Post by kingraf Sat 16 Oct 2021, 9:34 am

88Chris05 wrote:Let's not go overboard Raf. Wallin won maybe three rounds in that fight (as you mention, deserved the twelfth) and was getting pummelled and pushed all over the shop by a one-eyed Fury in the second half of it. Actually did tremendously well to stay upright and go the full twelve.

Fury won without being at his best and his subsequent performances against Wilder have been much better. The cuts nearly gave Wallin an improbable win but unless he slices open that eyebrow region again it's hard to see how he wins a rematch.

That said, I hope he beats Whyte and gets another shot.

I remember Wallin being taking a bit of stick from round 7-12, but I don't remember ever thinking he might be on his way out.

Wallin is a 6'6 southpaw. Not many men with his specific physical toolset roaming the earth, so I guess there was always going to be some feeling out happening, but I thought rounds 1-6 were pretty nip tuck, and Wallin produced the cleaner work. Obviously he had no chance of going 4-2, 5-1 in those rounds against the 5-fight $100m  House fighter, but I still thought he did pretty well. You can say Fury wasn't motivated for the fight, but he came in at a pretty good weight and this was essentially the last chance he had to sell the Fury fight, so I don't buy he sleepwalked through a fight where he was cut and in danger of being stopped on cuts in.

Also, for all the talk over Fury not being motivated for the fight Wallin is the one who had only been to 12 once, and had probably never had the funds for a full camp up to that point either, so it's not like he doesn't have scope for improvement himself assuming he beats Whyte.

I don't even think he beats Fury, and certainly not a motivated one, but the idea that a 70% Fury should see him off without any problems was amusing given the fact that he quite literally had many problems seeing him off 2 years ago. Hence "A motivated Fury" beginning to reach "Prime Mike Tyson" where even a fighter you saw Mike Tyson lose to in his prime gets his soul crushed by "Prime Mike Tyson" apparently.


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Post by No name Bertie Sat 16 Oct 2021, 9:49 am

I and many others consider Tyson Fury's victory over Otto Wallin one of his best fights for demonstrating an ability to come through great adversity.  During the fight the cut was so deep it looked like the fight would have to be stopped.  Then a round later a second cut opened up.  The first cut was caused by Wallin's punches rather than a clash of heads.  It seems to have been something to do with precise placement, angle, the glove surface texture.  Whatever there seems to have been something very specific.  That occurred in the third round and the blood flowed into Tyson's eye making seeing out of that eye difficult.  Then in the fourth round a clash of heads was said to have opened up another cut.   

In the first part of the fight it was Wallin pushing Fury back and controlling pace and distance.  In the second part of the fight as Wallin tired it was Fury pushing Wallin back and controlling pace and distance.  Then in a part of the 11th Fury dropped off and Wallin began to come forward.  In the 12th at least half of the round was Wallin pushing Fury back after he seemed to wobble Fury with a left hook that opened up the cuts again.  After the fight I heard Tyson required 47 stitches.  

ps: Wallin was an unbeaten fighter at the time so there was always some uncertainty as to how good he was - his resume was of course nothing special, but it was difficult to predict how he would perform taking a large step up in class. He had made an impression as a sparring partner for AJ and others.

pps: Otto Wallins previous fight before Tyson was a no contest with Nick Kisner - In the first round there was a clash of heads, Kisner got cut and the fight was stopped because of it.


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Post by 88Chris05 Sat 16 Oct 2021, 11:27 am

Raf, I'm not saying that Fury wasn't motivated for Wallin, or overlooked him etc. I'm saying it wasn't one of his best performances and he's shown he can produce much better than that since. I also didn't see the many problems you did. I saw one big problem, the cut.

Wallin's a decent fighter and he had some success. I'd give Fury a narrow edge through the first six rounds but if someone had it 3-3 at that stage I wouldn't argue too much. But I think the early rounds in particular were quite cagey and close, whereas all the big and dominant rounds in the fight came in the second half and Fury won all of them from 7-11 clearly. Fury was negative, throwing singles and happy to stay long until the cut spurred him into fighting rough and aggressively, after which point he was comfortably on top. Wallin was clearly hurt quite badly on a couple of occasions from my recollection, and probably very glad to hear the bell to end the round at least once.

Obviously the cut was a serious concern but an injury like that isn't something Wallin could bank on in a return fight. Without the cut it's just another unremarkable, bog-standard fight and win for Fury.

Anyway, I've never been on the Prime Iron Mike bandwagon and I ain't boosting Fury's abilities or invincibility to mythical levels either (because there is a nasty bout of that going around, I can't deny that). If he were to lose to either Whyte or Wallin he'll get no pass from me.
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Post by kingraf Sat 16 Oct 2021, 12:24 pm

Fury didn't get cut by our thin air though. He got caught and it opened him. And the funny thing about cuts is they generally don't worsen unless you continue to get caught. No arguments that Fury pulled away, but again he's fighting someone with two fights past 8 rounds, and one round in 18 months so how much of it is class telling and how much of it is a difference in experience and preparation for the backend of a heavyweight fight at that level.

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