England U20 Squad- 2022

First topic message reminder :

The U20s squad has been announced.  They seem to be a somewhat unknown quantity this year.   Normally I would see five or six nations that really standout as familiar and only a couple that I didn’t recognise.  This time I had to really research a lot of these names and therefore the positions may be slightly incorrect (especially in centres/ back-row).

Props:

Will Hobson (Harlequins) (LH)
Mark Dormer (Newcastle) (LH)
Mike Summerfield (London Irish) (LH?)

Fin Baxter (Harlequins) (TH)
Robin Hardwick (Wasps) (TH)

Hooker:

Lucas Brooke (London Irish)
Ollie Fletcher (Newcastle)
John Stewart (Bath)


Second Row:

Alfie Bell (Wasps)
Tom Lockett (Northampton)
Charlie Rice (Bristol)
Ewan Richards (Bath)
Alex Wardell (Saracens)

Back Row:

Kofi Cripps (Wasps) (OS)
Emeka Ilione (Leicester) (BS)
Geordie Irvine (Northampton) (No.8)
Toby Knight (Saracens)
Guy Pepper (Newcastle) (OS)

Scrum Half:

Tom Carr-Smith (Bath)
Matty Jones (Gloucester)

Fly Half:

Jamie Benson (Harlequins)
Louie Johnson (Newcastle)
Fin Smith (Worcester)

Centres:

Seb Atkinson (Worcester) (IC)
Ethan Grayson (Northampton (IC)
Olly Hartley (Wasps) (IC)
Will Joseph (London Irish)(OC)
Tom Litchfield (Northampton)(IC)

Wing:

Deago Bailey (Bristol)
Iwan Stephens (Newcastle)


Full Back:

Henry Arundell (London Irish)
George Hendy (Northampton)

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:https://images.app.goo.gl/bDzi85HdsT86xMNKA


Chessum Jnr on the bench, clearly taller than his older brother who's 6ft7. I'm sure the hookers are looking forward to him coming on.

And possibly even more ginger! Poor bugger.

Seems a thing with our academy lads at the minute. This is Cusick starting at 13.

https://www.leicestertigers.com/player/jacob-cusick

formerly known as Sam wrote:https://images.app.goo.gl/bDzi85HdsT86xMNKA


Chessum Jnr on the bench, clearly taller than his older brother who's 6ft7. I'm sure the hookers are looking forward to him coming on.

I hope you are still taking about Rugby.

lostinwales wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:https://images.app.goo.gl/bDzi85HdsT86xMNKA


Chessum Jnr on the bench, clearly taller than his older brother who's 6ft7. I'm sure the hookers are looking forward to him coming on.

I hope you are still taking about Rugby.

I can't comment on that sort of size I'm afraid.

He looks to be a couple of inches taller (in height) than his brother who is an excellent lineout option and is 6ft7 so you'd hope he'd have a similar spring at lineout time the hooker would have little trouble throwing it high and just letting him gather it above the opposition.

Poor discipline from England so far. Some really poor ones and the openside from Sarries looks out of his depth.

Wales get a red card from their number 8.

England surge into the lead 15-7 half time.

Haven’t been watching this, why did Wales get a red?

mikey_dragon wrote:Haven’t been watching this, why did Wales get a red?

Shoulder to the head from Alex Mann on their no.8. Can’t decide if it was harsh or not. Mann seemed set and then the England player went into contact and his head definitely lowered a bit. But they’ve been given as Red all season so not surprised. My 7 year old son said ‘they should card the England player for pushing his face down into the tackler’!!! It was odd as the game played on for ages before they called it back.

It’s a shame (the red) as Wales were on top for most the first half. Should have been more points on the board too but we chose to kick to touch instead of kicking penalties in front of the posts.

What is so impressive is these guys on both sides  are not even 20years old. and they are built like tanks. corrected that.

Who's that England lock who's just come on....he's HUGE!

Edit...its Chessum Junior

Jeez how fast is Arundle....

Very ...

GeordieFalcon wrote:Who's that England lock who's just come on....he's HUGE!

Edit...its Chessum Junior

I did tell you he was a bit lad didn't I. His big brother isn't exactly small at 6ft7 but Lewis is obviously taller than Ollie. Apparently he's been raising some eyebrows as he's warmed up with Tigers a couple of times pre game and he dwarfs the likes of Martin and Wells.

Emeka Ilione gets a deserved man of the match. He's stolen a lineout, won turnover penalties at the breakdown, scored a really nice try. Done a bit of everything that lad. Looking forward to seeing him get a go at senior level.

The Oracle wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Haven’t been watching this, why did Wales get a red?

Shoulder to the head from Alex Mann on their no.8. Can’t decide if it was harsh or not. Mann seemed set and then the England player went into contact and his head definitely lowered a bit. But they’ve been given as Red all season so not surprised. My 7 year old son said ‘they should card the England player for pushing his face down into the tackler’!!! It was odd as the game played on for ages before they called it back.

It’s a shame (the red) as Wales were on top for most the first half. Should have been more points on the board too but we chose to kick to touch instead of kicking penalties in front of the posts.

Part of me feels a bit sorry for him because he's just trying to put a big shot on his opposite number. Mann gets it horribly wrong, only wraps one arm, is always high so as soon and Ilione dips a shoulder towards contact he's in big trouble. Obvious red, ref had no choice.

Sam he's got to be about 6'9 or even more.
And room to fill out. But size isn't everything...let's see how he performs...

Illione looks a player and a half mind.

Arundel is something special but maybe just needs to learn to keep his awareness of who's around him for the offload.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Sam he's got to be about 6'9 or even more.
And room to fill out. But size isn't everything...let's see how he performs...

Illione looks a player and a half mind.  

Arundel is something special but maybe just needs to learn to keep his awareness of who's around him for the offload.

He's had an ankle injury so I think he's been out for a little bit. Has had some game time at Notts in the Championship, that experience will do him good. He's only 19 and already 18 stone. He should fill out to be an absolute monster, just hope he develops all the skills to make the size work for him.

I'm hoping to see both Chessum Jnr and Ilione get a go in the PRC in a few weeks time be good for them as both seem to be the type of player that Borthwick would like and make use of.

With Ilione it seems like it's a case of just stay fit and you'll go far lad.

Louie Johnson looked entirely comfortable when he came on for Benson who started poorly but really grew into the game as it went on.

Was disappointed with Finn Baxter, he came with a reputation and the captaincy but outside of the scrum it was a night to forget from him. Very poor.

Ethan Grayson at 12 had a bit of everything. Arundell is a livewire but it looked like we were just chucking him the ball and expecting him to make something happen from nothing. He looks raw though, his work under the high ball and decision making were both questionable at times. You can teach those though.

Well Ollie has impressed me with him gamestyle, so ill be interested to see what Lewis does.

I thought Alfie Bell also looked good. He carried a lot and tackled well. And he's another beanpole at 6'8...

Wasps will no doubt put some beef on him .

Ethan Grayson has impressed pretty much every game. Has that bit of quality, pace and time...

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Who's that England lock who's just come on....he's HUGE!

Edit...its Chessum Junior

I did tell you he was a bit lad didn't I. His big brother isn't exactly small at 6ft7 but Lewis is obviously taller than Ollie. Apparently he's been raising some eyebrows as he's warmed up with Tigers a couple of times pre game and he dwarfs the likes of Martin and Wells.

Emeka Ilione gets a deserved man of the match. He's stolen a lineout, won turnover penalties at the breakdown, scored a really nice try. Done a bit of everything that lad. Looking forward to seeing him get a go at senior level.

He was the most impressive live.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ethan Grayson has impressed pretty much every game. Has that bit of quality, pace and time...

From famine to feast at inside centre. Grayson very much impressed and with Ojomoh and Kelly England might actually have some quality options at 12. I liked the balance of the centre combination between Grayson and Cusick, thought they were solid and complimented each other nicely.

Bell did look like he had a lot of promise. Wasps seem to be investing in their tight five which should help him along.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ethan Grayson has impressed pretty much every game. Has that bit of quality, pace and time...

From famine to feast at inside centre. Grayson very much impressed and with Ojomoh and Kelly England might actually have some quality options at 12. I liked the balance of the centre combination between Grayson and Cusick, thought they were solid and complimented each other nicely.

Bell did look like he had a lot of promise. Wasps seem to be investing in their tight five which should help him along.

We’ve also got Olly Hartley as an option at 12 who unfortunately picked up an ankle injury just prior to the competition.

Emeka Ilione. Remember the name.

Not all players who flourish at U20s kick on of course but it's rare to see players that young with such an all round skill set. This is Ilione having missed basically the whole season up until the tournament with a long term injury as well.

I really hope he stays fit. That performance was on a par with the Curry twins and Aaron Hinckley as the best I've seen from an England U20. Those three players are great examples of how sometimes for players that talented a big component is just staying fit so you can keep progressing.

Tom Curry stayed fit and debuted for England whilst still eligible for the U20s. Ben Curry got a bad injury just after being called into the senior squad before Tom, it knocked his physical development back a couple of years. When Ben got that injury him and Tom looked very similar physically. When he returned Tom was an England starter, increasingly resembling Pocock whilst Ben looked basically the same as he did at U20s. Hinckley still hasn't stayed fit long enough to string many senior rugby matches together.

If Ilione stays fit and plays I think he will go a very long way.

Young Seb Atkinson actually did quite well on his first stsrt for Wuss last night at 12 aswell....set up his own try with a fantastic pass and support play...

Regards the red card for the Wales 8.

Was it worthy of a red card? I thought it was more accidental than deliberate, thought he might of got a yellow rather than a red card.

majesticimperialman wrote:Regards the red card for the Wales 8.

Was it worthy of a red card? I thought it was more accidental than deliberate, thought he might of got a yellow rather than a red card.

I don't think it was deliberate, he went for a big hit on his opposite number who had kept England in the game at that point with a couple of turnovers with England's defence creaking. 

Problem was it's shoulder straight to jaw/throat. The Welsh 8 doesn't attempt to lower his height and only wraps one arm to facilitate more shoulder in the tackle. It's not malicious but it's bad technique and the ref has no choice.

There's calls for the law change to red card for decisions like this. 20 minute sin bin then a replacement player comes on would have been fair and better for the game as a spectacle.

That England blindside was also huge.
Love the way time seems to slow down when Arundell has the ball and he was always a threat although made a few mistakes.

Like against Italy England seemed very sluggish and dull, but when they finally woke up they were very hard to stop. Grayson, Ilione and Arundell seem to be the pick of the bunch right now, but was good to see Bailey pick up his game.

Would love to have seen how the game turned out with 15 v 15 for the duration. Before the red card Wales were on top and England were struggling to get out of their own half. I’m not sure Wales could have kept it up all game, but I was pleasantly surprised for most of the 1st half.

As mentioned above, the England no.8 stopped a number of promising Wales moves with jackal turnovers. He had arms like Mr Tickle! I questioned the legality of a couple though. Wasn’t convinced that he had released the player before going in for the jackal. But that might be my one-eyedness towards Wales.

England U20s named for match against the Irish:

15. George Hendy (Northampton Saints, Caps 2)
14. Deago Bailey (Bristol Bears, Caps 6)
13. Jacob Cusick (Leicester Tigers, Caps 1)
12. Ethan Grayson (Northampton Saints, Caps 3)
11. Cassius Cleaves (Harlequins, Caps 1)
10. Jamie Benson (Harlequins, 3 Caps)
9. Sam Edwards (Leicester Tigers, Caps 2)
1. Fin Baxter (Harlequins, Caps 4)
2. John Stewart (Bath Rugby, Caps 3)
3. Tim Hoyt (Leicester Tigers, Caps 0)
4. Lewis Chessum (Leicester Tigers, Caps 1)
5. Tom Lockett (Northampton Saints, Caps 1)
6. Ewan Richards (Bath Rugby, Caps 5)
7. Toby Knight (Saracens, Caps 2)
8. Emeka Ilione (Leicester Tigers, Caps 4) - Captain

Replacements
16. Finn Theobald-Thomas (Worcester Warriors, Caps 2)
17. Mark Dormer (Newcastle Falcons, Caps 2)
18. Mikey Summerfield (London Irish, Caps 3)
19. Chandler Cunningham-South (London Irish, Caps 1)
20. Lucas Brooke (London Irish, Caps 2)
21. Nye Thomas (Sale Sharks, Caps 0)
22. Louie Johnson (Newcastle Falcons, Caps 2)
23. Will Joseph (London Irish, Caps 0)

That is a potentially huge back five of the scrum. Illione could potentially be the smallest and looks like a machine in his own right.

Tim Hoyt is one to look out for at TH. He's absolutely gigantic and made his Championship debut at 18 which as a prop is decent going.

Tigers have gone from having only one player in the first 23 (Ilione) to 5 in the starting XV here. Delighted for Chessum and Ilione in particular as both have had long term injuries recently. Ilione has already impressed a lot but Chessum is another talent.

Could be a game to watch.

Fin Baxter looks like the natural successor to Joe Marler at Quins and was totally at home in his games in the 1st XV earlier in the season.

Jamie Benson is thought to be better at fly half than Marcus Smith was at the same age - I've only seen him play in one senior game and while his decision making needs some work give him an inch of space and he's a real attacking threat.

Cassius Cleaves is phenomenally quick and very strong with it. Add that to KC's comments and there's a very good set of players on display.

Cleaves is something else, so quick and elusive. Be great if he continues and gets in senior side one day. Ilione at 8 was awesome against Wales, made so much ground ball in hand and great at breakdown.
Should be a cracker.

Here I go and jinx everything. But.....Ethan Grayson really seems to have the goods, skills and size, as a 12. I know we have heard that about promising inside centres in the past, but an EQ 12 with real potential can't be overlooked.

doctor_grey wrote:Here I go and jinx everything.  But.....Ethan Grayson really seems to have the goods, skills and size, as a 12.  I know we have heard that about promising inside centres in the past, but an EQ 12 with real potential can't be overlooked.  

Really liked the centre combination of him and Cusick in the last game. Grayson did show a bit of everything last weekend, very interested to see if he can back that up.

Re Tom Hoyt Nadolo has said that he makes him look small which I think was Nemani being nice but if he's in that ball park he's going to be a big un. Not sure what they are feeding them in the Tigers academy with Chessum Jnr behind him at lock having to duck under street lights.

Given Bath's injury plight this season, Ewan Richards has played some premiership games at lock, which given he is 19 is some going and been on the end of scoring movements too and there hasn't been too many of those with Bath recently.
Clearly though he looks a little short next to that Chessum phone mast....

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Here I go and jinx everything.  But.....Ethan Grayson really seems to have the goods, skills and size, as a 12.  I know we have heard that about promising inside centres in the past, but an EQ 12 with real potential can't be overlooked.  

Really liked the centre combination of him and Cusick in the last game. Grayson did show a bit of everything last weekend, very interested to see if he can back that up.

Re Tom Hoyt Nadolo has said that he makes him look small which I think was Nemani being nice but if he's in that ball park he's going to be a big un. Not sure what they are feeding them in the Tigers academy with Chessum Jnr behind him at lock having to duck under street lights.

More genetic breeding experiments in your academy, eh brother?

Only slight issue I have is the U20 game is after the senior match. Purely on a personal note I'd rather it was before, say tonight(yes I know France Wales on but maybe 6pm kick off).
It would be a fantastic warm up to the main event as it were. Plus viewing figures might be more then?

doctor_grey wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Here I go and jinx everything.  But.....Ethan Grayson really seems to have the goods, skills and size, as a 12.  I know we have heard that about promising inside centres in the past, but an EQ 12 with real potential can't be overlooked.  

Really liked the centre combination of him and Cusick in the last game. Grayson did show a bit of everything last weekend, very interested to see if he can back that up.

Re Tom Hoyt Nadolo has said that he makes him look small which I think was Nemani being nice but if he's in that ball park he's going to be a big un. Not sure what they are feeding them in the Tigers academy with Chessum Jnr behind him at lock having to duck under street lights.

More genetic breeding experiments in your academy, eh brother?  

And these two aren't from Norfolk for a change...

Recwatcher16 wrote:Given Bath's injury plight this season, Ewan Richards has played some premiership games at lock, which given he is 19 is some going and been on the end of scoring movements too and there hasn't been too many of those with Bath recently.
Clearly though he looks a little short next to that Chessum phone mast....

Everyone looks short next to Chessum Jnr even his 6ft7 brother. Richards has looked pretty good for Bath so far, he's clearly a talent. Should get plenty more game time next season as Bath aren't flushed with locks. If he can play 6 to a decent standard as well a SA head coach might use him in that role as well, he does seem mobile for a big lad.

That is a very big lock paring for an under 20s side, if Chesham Jnr is the 6'9" or so as described, Lockett is 6'8" and 17.5 stone, he has also had a couple of senior games for Saints, not sure if he started, but they obviously feel he can make the grade.

Grayson Jnr, Jnr, has a terrific skill set, but I think he needs to put a bit of weight on if he is going to play as a modern 12. I know he is young, but at just about 14 stone he is not going to be big enough to challenge Francis or Proctor for the Saints 12 shirt. Litchfield on the other hand is already over 15 stone and has a lot of class about him. Quick enough to play on the wing, he has the physicality and a beautiful offload. He is the one I would watch if we are looking for a modern physical 12, with a rounded skill set.

You can put some good solid muscle on in not too long a time...Grayson could some weight on quite easily.

Grayson could go upto a strong 15 stone plus.

Poorfour wrote:Could be a game to watch.

Fin Baxter looks like the natural successor to Joe Marler at Quins and was totally at home in his games in the 1st XV earlier in the season.

Jamie Benson is thought to be better at fly half than Marcus Smith was at the same age - I've only seen him play in one senior game and while his decision making needs some work give him an inch of space and he's a real attacking threat.

Cassius Cleaves is phenomenally quick and very strong with it. Add that to KC's comments and there's a very good set of players on display.

Not sure about that.

Seen him play a few times now and he's been okay, but Smith was playing Prem rugby at this age and looking right at home.

Ireland the better team tonight by a distance.

Not a huge amount to shout about from an Eng point of view other than a couple of tidy tries.

Lost to France too, so loose and don't seem to have a brain cell between them. Mind you let's hope the sa ref from the France game doesn't get promoted, seen better decisions at level 8.

The game Vs France was played in a deluge to be fair. Made worse by the fact England had a hooker that could only throw to French jumpers. When your locks are that big throw high FFS. Scrum half Nye seemed to struggle, looked like he wanted to play a high tempo game which just wasn't on when they were all splashing around.

Change in hooker meant change in fortune and England got back close towards the end but France held on. The French fullback looked like he was on the sex offenders register but boy could he kick for goal, anything from halfway was on and in terrible conditions.

England have chopped and changed the side so much this tournament it's not really surprising there's been a lack of cohesion.

Margin_Walker wrote:

Poorfour wrote:Could be a game to watch.

Fin Baxter looks like the natural successor to Joe Marler at Quins and was totally at home in his games in the 1st XV earlier in the season.

Jamie Benson is thought to be better at fly half than Marcus Smith was at the same age - I've only seen him play in one senior game and while his decision making needs some work give him an inch of space and he's a real attacking threat.

Cassius Cleaves is phenomenally quick and very strong with it. Add that to KC's comments and there's a very good set of players on display.

Not sure about that.

Seen him play a few times now and he's been okay, but Smith was playing Prem rugby at this age and looking right at home.

Agreed, saw him in the Welsh and Ireland games (I think). Looked nothing special. I thought Johnson the Falcons lad had a little more about him when coming off the bench but he struggled a bit tonight.

Ilione, Arundel and Grayson look to be the picks from this class.

Yeah, Fin Smith looks the pick of this crop as 10s go. Don't see either of the others really being stars in the making. Will be happy to be proved wrong though.

Claims of a French player spitting on an England player....

GeordieFalcon wrote:Claims of a French player spitting on an England player....

Yeah, I think Ilione said number 21. Started with some afters at the back of a maul with a French player on Nye which Chessum took exception to. Escalated quickly. I'm surprised the TMO found nothing in there because I'm fairly certain a couple of digs were definitely handed out from both sides. It was a fiesty game.

As an aside I liked Ilione's communication with the ref, managed to talk to him a lot but was never told that he'd over stepped the mark. Underrated skill. Not sure the ref took any notice mind, he seemed to have his own views and that was it.

Not a great campaign but agree on the ratings. Chessum the younger needs to put on a lot of meat. The other lock/ no.6 (Chandler Cunningham-South) looks much more powerful and will be interesting to see if he can develop.

Only saw a few minutes plus that Arundell try from last night. That man has some wheels.

lostinwales wrote:Not a great campaign but agree on the ratings. Chessum the younger needs to put on a lot of meat. The other lock/ no.6 (Chandler Cunningham-South) looks much more powerful and will be interesting to see if he can develop.

Only saw a few minutes plus that Arundell try from last night. That man has some wheels.

Nottingham website where Lewis Chessum has been on loan has him at 115kg or just over 18 stone. As he's only 18 he should naturally bulk out more over the next couple of years. I'd like to see him work on his dynamism more, he moved like a big bloke unlike his brother who is surprisingly springy. Ollie covers a lot of ground, gets up quickly at the lineout etc that mobility helps set him apart. Lewis needs to find that if he wants to push on and be in a position to via for senior honours in a few years time.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Not a great campaign but agree on the ratings. Chessum the younger needs to put on a lot of meat. The other lock/ no.6 (Chandler Cunningham-South) looks much more powerful and will be interesting to see if he can develop.

Only saw a few minutes plus that Arundell try from last night. That man has some wheels.

Nottingham website where Lewis Chessum has been on loan has him at 115kg or just over 18 stone. As he's only 18 he should naturally bulk out more over the next couple of years. I'd like to see him work on his dynamism more, he moved like a big bloke unlike his brother who is surprisingly springy. Ollie covers a lot of ground, gets up quickly at the lineout etc that mobility helps set him apart. Lewis needs to find that if he wants to push on and be in a position to via for senior honours in a few years time.

Just wait till he grows up...

Of course there is more to being a top second row than sheer size - Bayfield at 6'10" was less of a player than Johnno or Ben Kay (although is a hilarious after dinner speaker - if you can find his speech about being back up to the world's angriest man take a look), and didn't the Scots have a guy (Metcalfe?) around the same time who was 7' and useless.