England U20 Squad- 2022

First topic message reminder :

The U20s squad has been announced.  They seem to be a somewhat unknown quantity this year.   Normally I would see five or six nations that really standout as familiar and only a couple that I didn’t recognise.  This time I had to really research a lot of these names and therefore the positions may be slightly incorrect (especially in centres/ back-row).

Props:

Will Hobson (Harlequins) (LH)
Mark Dormer (Newcastle) (LH)
Mike Summerfield (London Irish) (LH?)

Fin Baxter (Harlequins) (TH)
Robin Hardwick (Wasps) (TH)

Hooker:

Lucas Brooke (London Irish)
Ollie Fletcher (Newcastle)
John Stewart (Bath)


Second Row:

Alfie Bell (Wasps)
Tom Lockett (Northampton)
Charlie Rice (Bristol)
Ewan Richards (Bath)
Alex Wardell (Saracens)

Back Row:

Kofi Cripps (Wasps) (OS)
Emeka Ilione (Leicester) (BS)
Geordie Irvine (Northampton) (No.8)
Toby Knight (Saracens)
Guy Pepper (Newcastle) (OS)

Scrum Half:

Tom Carr-Smith (Bath)
Matty Jones (Gloucester)

Fly Half:

Jamie Benson (Harlequins)
Louie Johnson (Newcastle)
Fin Smith (Worcester)

Centres:

Seb Atkinson (Worcester) (IC)
Ethan Grayson (Northampton (IC)
Olly Hartley (Wasps) (IC)
Will Joseph (London Irish)(OC)
Tom Litchfield (Northampton)(IC)

Wing:

Deago Bailey (Bristol)
Iwan Stephens (Newcastle)


Full Back:

Henry Arundell (London Irish)
George Hendy (Northampton)

Agreed at Ulster we had a guy Neil MComb who played lock.
6’ 7” 118 kg.
Soft as Poopie

Yeah size is no guarantee, we've all played with a big lad that was about as physically useful as a teddy bear.

Lewis Chessum has more about him than that, he just seems a little cumbersome currently. Needs to find that extra drive, always tough when you're the size he is but it's the cold reality if he wants to make it. His older brother noticeably changed in shape last summer and came back a more physically dominant player so hoping for some of that as well.

I think a few of the forwards from this group could do with a bit more explosive power, Finn Baxter a prime candidate as I was expecting an awful lot more from him but he was good at the scrum and pretty anonymous otherwise.

Bayfield after dinner speaking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQaG20pD4z0

Best line: 'Richard Cockerell: voted man most likely to marry outside his species'

They are replacing the junior world cup with a summer series in Italy.

Pool A
France
Ireland
England
South Africa

Pool B
Scotland
Wales
Italy
Georgia

England v South Africa - Friday 24 June, KO 4pm BST, Payanini Centre, Verona
England v France - Wednesday 29 June, KO 4pm BST, Payanini Centre, Verona
England v Ireland - Tuesday 5 July, KO 7pm BST, Payanini Centre, Verona

Squad announced for the tournament that is replacing the junior championship. You’ll be relieved Sam because Fin Smith is in the squad.

Charlie Bracken, Saracens, Caps 0
Lucas Brooke, London Irish, Caps 4
Tom Carr-Smith, Bath Rugby, Caps 3
Lewis Chessum, Leicester Tigers, Caps 3
Chandler Cunningham-South, London Irish, Caps 3
Greg Fisilau, Wasps, Caps 2
Ollie Fletcher, Newcastle Falcons, Caps 1
Ethan Grayson, Northampton Saints, Caps 5
Alex Harmes, London Irish, Caps 0
Sam Harris, Bath Rugby, Caps 0
George Hendy, Northampton Saints, Caps 3
Emeka Ilione, Leicester Tigers, Caps 6
Louie Johnson, Newcastle Falcons, Caps 5
Toby Knight, Saracens, Caps 5
Tom Litchfield, Northampton Saints, Caps 5
Tom Lockett, Northampton Saints, Caps 4
Rekeiti Ma’asi-White, Wasps, Caps 1
Archie McArthur, Wasps, Caps 2
Tumy Onasanya, Sale Sharks, Caps 0
Conor Oresanya, Harlequins, Caps 0
Charlie Rice, Bristol Bears, Caps 3
Ewan Richards, Bath Rugby, Caps 7
Ethan Staddon, Bath Rugby, Caps 0
Finn Theobald-Thomas, Worcester, Caps 2
Andrew Turner, Bristol Bears, Caps 0
Fin Smith, Worcester Warriors, Caps 5
Iwan Stephens, Newcastle Falcons, Caps 1
John Stewart, Bath Rugby, Caps 5
Mikey Summerfield, London Irish, Caps 5
Jed Walsh, Leicester Tigers, Caps 0
Jevaughn Warren, Saracens, Caps 0
Tobi Wilson, Worcester Warriors, Caps 0

The number of familiar names there reminds you that rugby is a relatively small game. Bracken, Brooke, Grayson, Stephens and Chessum.

I am relieved that Smith is in there, quality young flyhalf and the combination of him and Grayson the even younger should be a fun one to watch. Shame no spot for Cusick who formed a nice combination with Grayson during the Junior 6N.

Lewis Chessum has definitely bulked up a bit between the Junior 6N and now so hopefully he was cause some problems for the opposition.

Interesting Jed Walsh is in there, he only joined Tigers a couple of months back from Australia where he was in the club system somewhere. Pretty much went straight into the under 19s camp and now into the under 20s. A fullback/flyhalf, has played some games for one of the local lower national League teams and the highlights suggest he's not that big but he's very quick, good step and nice skills. Be interesting to see if he can get a game with Hendy in there who looked really good as Arundell's understudy previously (Saints seem handy at churning out the fullbacks at the moment).

formerly known as Sam wrote:I am relieved that Smith is in there, quality young flyhalf and the combination of him and Grayson the even younger should be a fun one to watch. Shame no spot for Cusick who formed a nice combination with Grayson during the Junior 6N.

Lewis Chessum has definitely bulked up a bit between the Junior 6N and now so hopefully he was cause some problems for the opposition.

Interesting Jed Walsh is in there, he only joined Tigers a couple of months back from Australia where he was in the club system somewhere. Pretty much went straight into the under 19s camp and now into the under 20s. A fullback/flyhalf, has played some games for one of the local lower national League teams and the highlights suggest he's not that big but he's very quick, good step and nice skills. Be interesting to see if he can get a game with Hendy in there who looked really good as Arundell's understudy previously (Saints seem handy at churning out the fullbacks at the moment).

They definitely seem to identify these guys instantly and assume the clubs give the U20s guys a nudge when they are bringing someone in who could potentially slot straight into the pathway. Was the same with Cunningham-South. He was fresh off the plane when he turned up in the U20s set up for the 6N.

15. George Hendy, Northampton Saints
14. Tom Litchfield, Northampton Saints
13. Ethan Grayson, Northampton Saints
12. Rekeiti Ma’asi-White, Wasps
11. Iwan Stephens, Newcastle Falcons
10. Fin Smith, Worcester Warriors
9. Tom Carr-Smith, Bath Rugby
1. Tumy Onasanya, Sale Sharks
2. John Stewart, Bath Rugby
3. Jevaughn Warren, Saracens
4. Ewan Richards, Bath Rugby
5. Lewis Chessum, Leicester Tigers
6. Chandler Cunningham-South, London Irish
7. Emeka Ilione, Leicester Tigers (c)
8. Greg Fisilau, Wasps

Replacements

16. Finn Theobald-Thomas, Worcester
17. Andrew Turner, Bristol Bears
18. Mikey Summerfield, London Irish
19. Tom Lockett, Northampton Saints
20. Lucas Brooke, London Irish
21. Ethan Staddon, Bath Rugby
22. Toby Knight, Saracens
23. Charlie Bracken, Saracens
24. Jed Walsh, Leicester Tigers
25. Conor Oresanya, Harlequins
26. Tobi Wilson, Worcester Warriors

These on TV anywhere?

...and how big is Fisilau if Ilione has been moved to 7?!

No 7&1/2 wrote:These on TV anywhere?

...and how big is Fisilau if Ilione has been moved to 7?!

On at 4:00pm tomorrow, going to be show on youtube and the RFU website.

ta muchly.

formerly known as Sam wrote:15. George Hendy, Northampton Saints
14. Tom Litchfield, Northampton Saints
13. Ethan Grayson, Northampton Saints
12. Rekeiti Ma’asi-White, Wasps
11. Iwan Stephens, Newcastle Falcons
10. Fin Smith, Worcester Warriors
9. Tom Carr-Smith, Bath Rugby
1. Tumy Onasanya, Sale Sharks
2. John Stewart, Bath Rugby
3. Jevaughn Warren, Saracens
4. Ewan Richards, Bath Rugby
5. Lewis Chessum, Leicester Tigers
6. Chandler Cunningham-South, London Irish
7. Emeka Ilione, Leicester Tigers (c)
8. Greg Fisilau, Wasps

Replacements

16. Finn Theobald-Thomas, Worcester
17. Andrew Turner, Bristol Bears
18. Mikey Summerfield, London Irish
19. Tom Lockett, Northampton Saints
20. Lucas Brooke, London Irish
21. Ethan Staddon, Bath Rugby
22. Toby Knight, Saracens
23. Charlie Bracken, Saracens
24. Jed Walsh, Leicester Tigers
25. Conor Oresanya, Harlequins
26. Tobi Wilson, Worcester Warriors

I want to say that looks like quite a beefy pack. Both props are around 19/20 stone. We keep hearing about Chessum, but Richards also been holding his own in the premiership. Back-row seem quite big, considering their respective ages.

Looking to fight fire with the Baby Boks.

Cumbrian wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:15. George Hendy, Northampton Saints
14. Tom Litchfield, Northampton Saints
13. Ethan Grayson, Northampton Saints
12. Rekeiti Ma’asi-White, Wasps
11. Iwan Stephens, Newcastle Falcons
10. Fin Smith, Worcester Warriors
9. Tom Carr-Smith, Bath Rugby
1. Tumy Onasanya, Sale Sharks
2. John Stewart, Bath Rugby
3. Jevaughn Warren, Saracens
4. Ewan Richards, Bath Rugby
5. Lewis Chessum, Leicester Tigers
6. Chandler Cunningham-South, London Irish  
7. Emeka Ilione, Leicester Tigers (c)
8. Greg Fisilau, Wasps

Replacements

16. Finn Theobald-Thomas, Worcester
17. Andrew Turner, Bristol Bears
18. Mikey Summerfield, London Irish  
19. Tom Lockett, Northampton Saints  
20. Lucas Brooke, London Irish  
21. Ethan Staddon, Bath Rugby  
22. Toby Knight, Saracens  
23. Charlie Bracken, Saracens
24. Jed Walsh, Leicester Tigers
25. Conor Oresanya, Harlequins
26. Tobi Wilson, Worcester Warriors

I want to say that looks like quite a beefy pack.  Both props are around 19/20 stone.  We keep hearing about Chessum, but Richards also been holding his own in the premiership.   Back-row seem quite big, considering their respective ages.  

Looking to fight fire with the Baby Boks.  

CCS is also massive

The pack is pretty hefty, Ilione played some 8 in the J6N as well. The Wasps 8 is quite young, he might not be as massive but I presume possibly quite explosive.

The backline has three centres in it with the Wasps guy north of 6ft and heading towards 16 stone at 12. Very much looks like we're tooling up for a physical game. Litchfield the Saints centre on the wing isn't really a power player but he's also pretty heftily built.

In a season or two we could be in the laughable position of having too many 12s that we know what to do with.

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/watch-england-u20-v-south-africa-u20

GeordieFalcon wrote:In a season or two we could be in the laughable position of having too many 12s that we know what to do with.

You mean, just after the RWC?

Thanks. Jeez the England scrum half is struggling. Looks like he was out on the town last night he's so off tempo.

Cracking SA try just after 2 minutes after a great kick does for our 11. He then redeemed himself with a great break that drew a deliberate knock on from the SA no.6. We get a good maul try from the resulting lineout.

Early part of the half England had the edge in the scrum but as the half wore on SA improved and most importantly our lineout became utter rubbish. SA had one try chalked off for deliberate obstruction but did finally create a great break just before half time to make it 10-7.

Same old England. Crucial handling mistakes at the wrong time after promising breaks. Ilione and Hendy probably the best England players with Stephens not far behind. Chessum looks much better than he did in the 6N, he's definitely getting stronger, but something is going wrong between him and the hooker.

Well that was a load of smelly stuff. Well done Baby Boks

So many handling errors, England blew that one in the first half. Should have had at least one probably two whilst the Boks were down a man but were foiled by their own incompetence. The Boks looked a more well oiled team and I do wonder whether England would have benefited from keeping more of the team that finished the 6N. The English defence was heavily reliant on Ilione attacking the breakdown to slow down the free flowing Boks, Steyn the scrum half looks a talent. To be fair the English attack looked good we just invariably knocked it on, once the starting scrum half was replaced we played with better tempo but less game management. Shouldn't have left Sam Edwards back at home.

formerly known as Sam wrote:So many handling errors, England blew that one in the first half. Should have had at least one probably two whilst the Boks were down a man but were foiled by their own incompetence. The Boks looked a more well oiled team and I do wonder whether England would have benefited from keeping more of the team that finished the 6N. The English defence was heavily reliant on Ilione attacking the breakdown to slow down the free flowing Boks, Steyn the scrum half looks a talent. To be fair the English attack looked good we just invariably knocked it on, once the starting scrum half was replaced we played with better tempo but less game management. Shouldn't have left Sam Edwards back at home.

Hendy is a real talent and both wingers looked good. Was a bit disappointed by Grayson because he's been better in the past, but the 12 (and starting no.8 ) were both forgettable.

I missed the game because of work, is there t actually worth watching it back on YouTube?

lostinwales wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:So many handling errors, England blew that one in the first half. Should have had at least one probably two whilst the Boks were down a man but were foiled by their own incompetence. The Boks looked a more well oiled team and I do wonder whether England would have benefited from keeping more of the team that finished the 6N. The English defence was heavily reliant on Ilione attacking the breakdown to slow down the free flowing Boks, Steyn the scrum half looks a talent. To be fair the English attack looked good we just invariably knocked it on, once the starting scrum half was replaced we played with better tempo but less game management. Shouldn't have left Sam Edwards back at home.

Hendy is a real talent and both wingers looked good. Was a bit disappointed by Grayson because he's been better in the past, but the 12 (and starting no.8 ) were both forgettable.

The 12 had a couple of moments but really need to impose himself on the game. The 8 looked out of his depth but I think he's only 18.

The wingers looked alright ball in hand but both had wobbles positionally. Litchfield very much looked an out is position centre. There was definitely potential in that backline but the error count and the scrum halfs inability to play at any sort of tempo (made Ben Youngs look rapid) really hindered. Don't know if I'm being slightly unfair to the 9 but his opposite number Steyn comfortably played him off the pitch in every facet of the game.

Completely forgot about the first match, and by the sounds of it didn't miss much.Lineup for France.


RFU site: There are four changes to the starting line up that lost to South Africa last week. Conor Oresanya, who scored a try having come off the bench against the Boks, starts at left wing, while scrum half Charlie Bracken also starts.

Kick off at 4pm on Wednesday 29 June
Watch it live on englandrugby.com
Ollie Fletcher makes his first appearance in the series at hooker, and number eight Toby Knight moves from the bench to the start the game.

"Taking the positives from our game against South Africa has been important as we prepare for tomorrow’s game," said Dickens. "The three tries from Stewart, Ilione and Oresanya were pleasing and to perform against France, who had a strong start against Ireland in the first round, we need to keep focus on our set piece and maintain our discipline.

"The players have been training hard and are looking forward to facing France in round two."

TEAM
15. George Hendy, Northampton Saints
14. Iwan Stephens, Newcastle Falcons
13. Ethan Grayson, Northampton Saints
12. Rekeiti Ma’asi-White, Wasps
11. Conor Oresanya, Harlequins
10. Fin Smith, Worcester Warriors
9. Charlie Bracken, Saracens
1. Tumy Onasanya, Sale Sharks
2. Ollie Fletcher, Newcastle Falcons
3. Jevaughn Warren, Saracens
4. Ewan Richards, Bath Rugby
5. Lewis Chessum, Leicester Tigers
6. Chandler Cunningham-South, London Irish
7. Emeka Ilione, Leicester Tigers (c)
8. Toby Knight, Saracens

Replacements

16. John Stewart, Bath Rugby
17. Andrew Turner, Bristol Bears
18. Mikey Summerfield, London Irish
19. Charlie Rice, Bristol Bears
20. Tom Lockett, Northampton Saints
21. Lucas Brooke, London Irish
22. Ethan Staddon, Bath Rugby
23. Tom Carr-Smith, Bath Rugby
24. Jed Walsh, Leicester Tigers
25. Tom Litchfield, Northampton Saints
26. Sam Harris, Bath Rugby

Another 7/8 into the backrow should help England, Ilione ended up with all the jackling burden in the last game and whilst he was effective England needed more given their lack of defensive organisation. Litchfield is unlucky but he isn't a winger, don't like the insistence on shoving two inside centres into the midfield either.

Changes seem to make sense on the face of it. More experienced/bigger guy at 8, anyone else at hooker, wing on the wing and Bracken in at 9 whose service was an improvement when he came on on Friday.

Interesting game. Stupid, actually. Much better performance by the starters. Subs were a mixed bunch and I don't think I am much of a fan of Carr-Smith. French varied between sublime and rubbish, and got 2 tries chalked off. England scored a cracker when down to 12 (I think).

LostinWales, I think that Carr-Smith is fortunate that the tournament is happening away from the UK where he could be easily replaced. He's been shocking in both games so far, I can only presume there's injuries to other options. For instance Edwards from Tigers played in the J6N and is easily head and shoulders above Carr-Smith but isn't touring.

England were good in patches but the number of errors was pretty poor. The starting centres were not up to scratch really. Harris off the bench looked handy and Walsh made a good fist of his 10 minutes of playing both 9 and 10.

formerly known as Sam wrote:LostinWales, I think that Carr-Smith is fortunate that the tournament is happening away from the UK where he could be easily replaced. He's been shocking in both games so far, I can only presume there's injuries to other options. For instance Edwards from Tigers played in the J6N and is easily head and shoulders above Carr-Smith but isn't touring.

England were good in patches but the number of errors was pretty poor. The starting centres were not up to scratch really. Harris off the bench looked handy and Walsh made a good fist of his 10 minutes of playing both 9 and 10.

Thought Grayson was good, much better than he was against the baby boks. Agree on Walsh. Finn Smith seems to have the world on his shoulders so it was good to see a new guy come in and play with freedom.

lostinwales wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:LostinWales, I think that Carr-Smith is fortunate that the tournament is happening away from the UK where he could be easily replaced. He's been shocking in both games so far, I can only presume there's injuries to other options. For instance Edwards from Tigers played in the J6N and is easily head and shoulders above Carr-Smith but isn't touring.

England were good in patches but the number of errors was pretty poor. The starting centres were not up to scratch really. Harris off the bench looked handy and Walsh made a good fist of his 10 minutes of playing both 9 and 10.

Thought Grayson was good, much better than he was against the baby boks. Agree on Walsh. Finn Smith seems to have the world on his shoulders so it was good to see a new guy come in and play with freedom.

I felt too much broke down with the England centres. Admittedly the game wasn't getting my full attention but overrunning Smith, throwing an ambitious offload at a backrows head and knocking on (more than once) in the opposition 22 all spring to mind as memories of the England centres.

Fin Smith was limping from very early on in the game. He pulled a lot of his kicks and just didn't look comfortable. Don't think he carried the ball into contact once. Didn't look a serious limp so perhaps a niggle that they were trying to manage given the only other flyhalf option Walsh hasn't played any pro games yet. Walsh played a handful of games at Leicester Lions which is sort of semi pro, the clip I saw he was playing 15 and looked electric mind. Be interesting to see if they try and nurse Smith through the next game as well or look to Walsh as they look very different players and I'm not sure Walsh will play the same tactical game.

I know they are young lads, but there was some proper boneheaded play from England.

I lost count of how many times they knocked the ball on, must have been significantly north of a dozen. I reckon Cunningham-South knocked on about four times alone!

Some nice flashes, but a frustrating watch.

Cumbrian wrote:I know they are young lads, but there was some proper boneheaded play from England.

I lost count of how many times they knocked the ball on,  must have been significantly north of a dozen. I reckon Cunningham-South knocked on about four times alone!

Some nice flashes, but a frustrating watch.

Sounds like the two games before it then.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:I know they are young lads, but there was some proper boneheaded play from England.

I lost count of how many times they knocked the ball on,  must have been significantly north of a dozen. I reckon Cunningham-South knocked on about four times alone!

Some nice flashes, but a frustrating watch.

Sounds like the two games before it then.

Yep. There have been some very good England U20s squads, but with the best will in the world this isn't one of them. Whether there's something wrong with the skills coaching (possible side effect of Covid years, and not managing any lost training time as well as others?) or it's just not the best class when it comes to catching/holding onto the ball or something else entirely is beyond me. Hope for the players' sakes they can get this sorted, as with unforced errors ironed out they'd be getting good results.

It's nice to have a team stacked with players who could go onto be great but realistically the last few teams have been so so. Most of the time I suspect coaches would prefer a couple of diamonds and a shoddy team.

Watched a chunk of the first half. We started like a train and then looked absolutely shattered, players walking back etc. Don't know if it's the heat of three back to back games with very little rotation in the pack. There were a lot of errors and the tries to let Ireland back into the game when they were 14-0 down were pretty shoddy. Admittedly the penalty try was a bit unlucky but how Ireland got into that position was poor from England, just the basics of guard and bodyguard were missing from the rucks.

Finn Smith looked a class act but again he didn't look confident kicking so I did wonder whether he's 100% fit after going off injured in the last game where he played quite a bit whilst looking less than fully fit.

I know they haven't been great in this tournament, but the've been on the end of quite a few rough decisions in this tournament. Watching the Italy match, you apparently only have to enter the ruck legally if you are in a white shirt...

Ref literally ignored the Italians diving into the ruck three times, and flying in at the side once then penalised England.

Again, I know they are only kids but Cunningham-South is useless, the bloke couldn't catch a cold on the evidence of the last two games.

Impressive from Italy. We had a really tough game against them last week. I wonder what they’ve been doing differently in recent years.

Aye Italy we’re good, looked more skilled than our player, not that that would be hard (seemingly not a vintage year for us ). It is good to see Italy bring these players through, hopefully it will translate to their men’s team soon.

Going by what the commentators have been saying in recent weeks, a few of them are also attached to French academies.

Is this Connor O'Shea's effect on the Italian set up? i know he was meant to help drive performance across all parts of Italian rugby when he was there

mikey_dragon wrote:Impressive from Italy. We had a really tough game against them last week. I wonder what they’ve been doing differently in recent years.

Maybe some Soviet sport scientists may have migrated to the north of Italy, just to help out a bit. Ya know what I mean? Just a thought, not saying I know anything....

The Italian youth system has been improved a lot since Connor O'Shea was involved in reviewing the game overall and a decent player pathway was put in place. It is starting to bear fruit which is good to see. Depressingly, now we are seeing good performances for the U20s and a few coming through to the senior team, they've decided to mix things up again and are reducing from 4 to 2 academies - linked more explicitly to Treviso and Zebre. Not convinced that's a great move myself, but we'll see how things progress. The theory is that it will better support players going from youth to adult rugby, but in practice I think it will just reduce the size of net they are casting to find (and showcase) talented players. And if it's just a cover/excuse for reducing costs post Covid, they aren't going to be better at developing the smaller pool of players they end up with.