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English 6 Nations

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 05 Jan 2022, 2:52 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jan/05/six-nations-rugby-covid-rob-baxter

A potential answer to a potential problem. Baxter has said that if there is a risk of cancellations or playing in front of 1 man and his dog you may as well play all the games in England.

I suppose an interesting suggestion. If they could agree a slice of revenue from whichever grounds would host along with some teams giving up home advantage would people want to see this? It doesn't reduce the risk at all, merely increases it surely, gives England an advantage. It's unlikely the Government will bring in further restrictions as their hands are tied by the back benchers so reduces the risk of last minute changes. Just a big melting pot of cross contamination.


'Rob Baxter, Exeter’s director of rugby, believes that playing this season’s Six Nations in one country has “got to be better than cancelling it”.

The tournament is due to kick off in Dublin and Edinburgh on 5 February but currently finds itself shrouded in uncertainty. Under current Welsh Government restrictions imposed due to the pandemic and, specifically, the omicron variant, Wales would have to play scheduled home games against Scotland, France and Italy behind closed doors. Scotland are in a similar position for games at Murrayfield, while it has been reported that Wales could consider moving their home against Scotland, France and Italy to England.

Financial implications of behind-closed-doors home games for the Welsh Rugby Union would be significant. They faced an identical situation for last season’s tournament, with the shutters being down for matches against Ireland and England. Full crowds were, however, allowed at the Principality Stadium for Wales’ recent Autumn Nations Series before fresh restrictions took effect from Boxing Day.

Capacity crowds are currently allowed in England, provided spectators can prove full vaccination status or provide a negative lateral flow test. Against such a backdrop, playing the whole competition – it takes place across five weekends between early February and mid-March – in one country with permitted crowds has also been mooted in some quarters.

“The whole beauty of the Six Nations has been that change of environment, that change of weather conditions, going to play in Scotland, Wales, Ireland – those are the great challenges,” said Baxter. “That’s what makes the Six Nations such a great competition to win. You’ve seen French teams in that one week they can beat anyone in the world in Paris, and then the next week it doesn’t go quite so well in Cardiff. That’s the beauty of the tournament, that’s what from a rugby perspective I am sure we would all want to see happen.

“That said, we can’t all sit here and pretend the world is in an ideal place at the moment. For the national bodies, their responsibility goes beyond the professional sport, it goes right down to grassroots rugby, so if playing the tournament provides a level of income that cancelling it or no crowds doesn’t create, then we’ve got to look at the next best scenario. If the next best scenario is playing it in one country, where you can have sellout crowds, you can raise some revenue and you can keep that income stream going for all the bodies, then it’s got to be better than cancelling it.


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“I think with every sporting body, it’s revenue that is the biggest thing that has been damaged, so anything that can keep revenue online has got to be preferable to just binning things for a season,” Baxter added. “We’ve all had to try and find a way to keep going, to try and keep revenue coming in. It’s the same with any business, you’ve got to explore those options.”

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Post by demosthenes Wed 05 Jan 2022, 5:24 pm

From the information I have seen, it implies that the various UK national governments would require to sign off on this; and of course the Irish and French.

If so, it isn't going to happen.

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Post by lostinwales Wed 05 Jan 2022, 5:45 pm

Beeb reporting Wales looking at this option

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59867675

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Post by doctor_grey Wed 05 Jan 2022, 7:04 pm

I suppose the host national government bodies would not receive the same tax revenue if their team's home games are played elsewhere? Not sure the magnitude and whether this comes into it at all.  

BJ (what an appropriate set of initials) et al keep changing the entry requirements to England so I am wondering if we could still  - at least in some way - have supporters from France, Ireland, Italy, Wales, and Scotland attending?  Especially for what would have been their home games.

For those of us living outside Britain, I heard the entry requirements just changed again.  Next time I come home I need to wear a body condom.  With a mask.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Thu 06 Jan 2022, 4:50 am

It makes some sort of sense and at least would make it a spectacle.

Could have Scotland based around Newcastle, Wales in Bristol perhaps....Ireland in maybe Liverpool/Manchester? Italy in London.....France.......erm, Jersey?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 06 Jan 2022, 9:05 am

lostinwales wrote:Beeb reporting Wales looking at this option

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59867675

Rees-Zammit there backing playing them in England if there are no fans too. From the article as well though the WRU said they would back the Welsh governments approach and surely looking to sidestep the rules to England is a bit of a mickey take.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Thu 06 Jan 2022, 9:31 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:It makes some sort of sense and at least would make it a spectacle.

Could have Scotland based around Newcastle, Wales in Bristol perhaps....Ireland in maybe Liverpool/Manchester? Italy in London.....France.......erm, Jersey?

laughing laughing

Class

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Post by lostinwales Thu 06 Jan 2022, 9:40 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:It makes some sort of sense and at least would make it a spectacle.

Could have Scotland based around Newcastle, Wales in Bristol perhaps....Ireland in maybe Liverpool/Manchester? Italy in London.....France.......erm, Jersey?

I believe London was claimed to be the 6th biggest French city, although for some reason I would imagine the number of French people living there may have reduced over the last few years.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Thu 06 Jan 2022, 9:49 am

lostinwales wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:It makes some sort of sense and at least would make it a spectacle.

Could have Scotland based around Newcastle, Wales in Bristol perhaps....Ireland in maybe Liverpool/Manchester? Italy in London.....France.......erm, Jersey?

I believe London was claimed to be the 6th biggest French city, although for some reason I would imagine the number of French people living there may have reduced over the last few years.

6th biggest city! Makes me shudder at the very thought.....bloody frogs.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Thu 06 Jan 2022, 10:24 am

Then Slade can play the whole tournament.

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Post by The Oracle Thu 06 Jan 2022, 10:57 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Beeb reporting Wales looking at this option

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59867675

Rees-Zammit there backing playing them in England if there are no fans too. From the article as well though the WRU said they would back the Welsh governments approach and surely looking to sidestep the rules to England is a bit of a mickey take.

This is the biggest issue for me. The whole point of the limit on fans in Wales is to limit the spread of COVID. Whether we agree with the approach or not, having Wales fans travelling on trains and shared cars to English stadia and pubs, potentially pick up COVID, and bringing it back to Wales........ just creates the same issue as playing at home in front of a big crowd. So the WRU might want to do it but they’re going to get in a lot of hot water for sanctioning it I think. Terrible situation to be in from a business point of view. I sympathise with the Welsh and Scottish unions.



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Post by BamBam Fri 07 Jan 2022, 3:09 pm

https://twitter.com/alexspinkmirror/status/1479469075810164739?s=12

Club games to go ahead after the French government assured clubs that travel is fine, despite restrictions for the general public

As we've seen in Australia, having different rules for elite sports stars and Joe Public tends to go completely smoothly without any hitches

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 07 Jan 2022, 4:13 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:It makes some sort of sense and at least would make it a spectacle.

Could have Scotland based around Newcastle, Wales in Bristol perhaps....Ireland in maybe Liverpool/Manchester? Italy in London.....France.......erm, Jersey?

I believe London was claimed to be the 6th biggest French city, although for some reason I would imagine the number of French people living there may have reduced over the last few years.
Yes, they retreated. Run

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Sun 09 Jan 2022, 12:43 pm

The Oracle wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Beeb reporting Wales looking at this option

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59867675

Rees-Zammit there backing playing them in England if there are no fans too. From the article as well though the WRU said they would back the Welsh governments approach and surely looking to sidestep the rules to England is a bit of a mickey take.

This is the biggest issue for me.  The whole point of the limit on fans in Wales is to limit the spread of COVID.  Whether we agree with the approach or not, having Wales fans travelling on trains and shared cars to English stadia and pubs, potentially pick up COVID, and bringing it back to Wales........ just creates the same issue as playing at home in front of a big crowd.  So the WRU might want to do it but they’re going to get in a lot of hot water for sanctioning it I think.  Terrible situation to be in from a business point of view.  I sympathise with the Welsh and Scottish unions.  




No thought for the spreading of Covid in England Oracle?

Doc, a recent survey that came across on the net, probably as click bait, said that 50% of the population of England have some French genes. Taking into account the multi ethnic society we live in, quite a high percentage will have no connections to France in the last 2000 years, that makes it a much higher percentage. So were they Londoners fed up with BJ and Brexit retreating back to their past origins or modern day French that have decided that retreating back to France is better than fighting it out over here with rampant Covid and a PM regarded as nothing more than Trump Junior.

Most of my team at work are French, they regard Macron in the same light as we do BJ.
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Post by The Oracle Sun 09 Jan 2022, 8:53 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Beeb reporting Wales looking at this option

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59867675

Rees-Zammit there backing playing them in England if there are no fans too. From the article as well though the WRU said they would back the Welsh governments approach and surely looking to sidestep the rules to England is a bit of a mickey take.

This is the biggest issue for me.  The whole point of the limit on fans in Wales is to limit the spread of COVID.  Whether we agree with the approach or not, having Wales fans travelling on trains and shared cars to English stadia and pubs, potentially pick up COVID, and bringing it back to Wales........ just creates the same issue as playing at home in front of a big crowd.  So the WRU might want to do it but they’re going to get in a lot of hot water for sanctioning it I think.  Terrible situation to be in from a business point of view.  I sympathise with the Welsh and Scottish unions.  




No thought for the spreading of Covid in England Oracle?

Doc, a recent survey that came across on the net, probably as click bait, said that 50% of the population of England have some French genes. Taking into account the multi ethnic society we live in, quite a high percentage will have no connections to France in the last 2000 years, that makes it a much higher percentage. So were they Londoners fed up with BJ and Brexit retreating back to their past origins or modern day French that have decided that retreating back to France is better than fighting it out over here with rampant Covid and a PM regarded as nothing more than Trump Junior.  

Most of my team at work are French, they regard Macron in the same light as we do BJ.

That would be terrible. But Boris doesn’t seem to care.
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Post by lostinwales Sun 09 Jan 2022, 11:13 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Beeb reporting Wales looking at this option

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59867675

Rees-Zammit there backing playing them in England if there are no fans too. From the article as well though the WRU said they would back the Welsh governments approach and surely looking to sidestep the rules to England is a bit of a mickey take.

This is the biggest issue for me.  The whole point of the limit on fans in Wales is to limit the spread of COVID.  Whether we agree with the approach or not, having Wales fans travelling on trains and shared cars to English stadia and pubs, potentially pick up COVID, and bringing it back to Wales........ just creates the same issue as playing at home in front of a big crowd.  So the WRU might want to do it but they’re going to get in a lot of hot water for sanctioning it I think.  Terrible situation to be in from a business point of view.  I sympathise with the Welsh and Scottish unions.  




No thought for the spreading of Covid in England Oracle?

Doc, a recent survey that came across on the net, probably as click bait, said that 50% of the population of England have some French genes. Taking into account the multi ethnic society we live in, quite a high percentage will have no connections to France in the last 2000 years, that makes it a much higher percentage. So were they Londoners fed up with BJ and Brexit retreating back to their past origins or modern day French that have decided that retreating back to France is better than fighting it out over here with rampant Covid and a PM regarded as nothing more than Trump Junior.  

Most of my team at work are French, they regard Macron in the same light as we do BJ.

Might be linked to the Normans so its only 1000 years, although of course as near neighbours there would have been much cross border mixing. And yes I know the Normans proper originally came from more northern lands but they would have intermarried with the locals when they moved into France.

And of course there are also the Hugenots who provide my 3 or 4 drops of French blood.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 10 Jan 2022, 8:29 am

Reckon Genge may be lucky to make the start of the tournament? Thought initially it was a yellow for his scuffle but looking back all you need is contact with the eye area for a red. Wouldn't be surprised if its cited. May open the door fully for Rodd and West.

I'm still looking at Colliers form and thinking is there chance for him to get in the squad, 30 now, about peak and probably the form tight head in the league.

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Post by Oakdene Mon 10 Jan 2022, 9:20 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Reckon Genge may be lucky to make the start of the tournament? Thought initially it was a yellow for his scuffle but looking back all you need is contact with the eye area for a red. Wouldn't be surprised if its cited. May open the door fully for Rodd and West.

I'm still looking at Colliers form and thinking is there chance for him to get in the squad, 30 now, about peak and probably the form tight head in the league.

The hair pull needs looking at too, bloody petulant that was.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 10 Jan 2022, 9:35 am

Oakdene wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Reckon Genge may be lucky to make the start of the tournament? Thought initially it was a yellow for his scuffle but looking back all you need is contact with the eye area for a red. Wouldn't be surprised if its cited. May open the door fully for Rodd and West.

I'm still looking at Colliers form and thinking is there chance for him to get in the squad, 30 now, about peak and probably the form tight head in the league.

The hair pull needs looking at too, bloody petulant that was.

Just realised i posted this on the wrong thread. Oh well. Not sure the hair pulling is anywhere near a red myself.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 12 Jan 2022, 7:47 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Reckon Genge may be lucky to make the start of the tournament? Thought initially it was a yellow for his scuffle but looking back all you need is contact with the eye area for a red. Wouldn't be surprised if its cited. May open the door fully for Rodd and West.

I'm still looking at Colliers form and thinking is there chance for him to get in the squad, 30 now, about peak and probably the form tight head in the league.

He's gotten away with it. Genge that is.

There's got to be some real concern over the form of our tightheads with Sinckler being pretty meh this season and looking targetable in the scrum whilst Stuart has never got going. English form tightheads are Collier as you say and old man Cole who's rolled back the years. I wonder if Eddie will turn to one of them to give Stuart in particular a shot in the arm.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 12 Jan 2022, 9:21 am

Don't know if you ve been swayed or read the xv rugby article I posted. It mentions the scrums between Leicester and Bristol. Cole isn't going to be picked.

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Post by bsando Wed 12 Jan 2022, 10:10 am

Will young Louis Lynagh be getting his first England cap this 6N? He looks like one of the many young players who could ignite England this year. I know his old man was an Australian great but I think it makes sense for him to go with England based on his upbringing and recent involvement with England. I hope he does get a cap (after Scotland preferably Very Happy

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 12 Jan 2022, 10:33 am

Hard to say. Better than Radwan? Probably not. May will play if fit. Malins is probably still ahead of him. Couple of injuries then he'll be in the pot.


Incidentally change in position from both the Welsh and the Scottish governments should see home games there.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 12 Jan 2022, 10:55 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Don't know if you ve been swayed or read the xv rugby article I posted. It mentions the scrums between Leicester and Bristol. Cole isn't going to  be picked.

Not seen it. I doubt Cole's going to get picked as well, if he was 10 years younger very different story. Been a very odd season for big Dan. Very underwhelming scrum performances by his normal standards but loose play like someone at least 10 years younger, I think that might have been due to the summer fitness regime, he's looking leaner now. Something similar happened with Heyes over lockdown, the new S&C coach really shaved off the spare pounds and then built him back up. Meant Heyes scrum work went backwards before coming good again. Dan came back after a rest over the European games fired up for the set piece as well, saw some pretty destructive work there. 

Re the Bristol game the battle was really on the other side. Cole had the Bristol looseheads on toast. The issues were Montoya's hooking technique falling foul of the ref at an inopportune time and Genge Vs Sinckler, which was a little heated. Sincks using all of his tricks to stay in that particular fight (fair play he's an international tighthead it's what he's paid for).

Collier isn't so age sensitive a selection, he could very well add a cap or two this 6N.

Re Lynagh he doesn't look ready for international rugby yet, still learning his trade. He'll gain more being at Quins and keep getting the game time. I don't think Eddie's going to be allowed a big enough squad to facilitate any apprentice style inclusions.

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Post by lostinwales Wed 12 Jan 2022, 10:56 am

bsando wrote:Will young Louis Lynagh be getting his first England cap this 6N? He looks like one of the many young players who could ignite England this year. I know his old man was an Australian great but I think it makes sense for him to go with England based on his upbringing and recent involvement with England. I hope he does get a cap (after Scotland preferably Very Happy  

From what I have seen he has the kind of skill set that could get him a lot of caps but he doesn't have the kind of USP that the likes of, say Radwan, Cokanasinga or Nowell has.

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Post by Poorfour Wed 12 Jan 2022, 10:57 am

Radwan and Lynagh are different styles of player, though. Radwan will create something out of nothing, Lynagh will finish stuff he has no right to finish and also gives a second fullback option in the backfield.

Malins is deservedly ahead of him in the pecking order (and offers fly half backup as well, at least in theory), though I suspect the biggest barrier to Lynagh getting capped is his own team mate. Eddie clearly sees Marchant as a wing more than a centre, for all that Slade and Marchant looked great together and did a better job of unpicking the Bok defence than the cream of Britain and Ireland.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 12 Jan 2022, 11:03 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Don't know if you ve been swayed or read the xv rugby article I posted. It mentions the scrums between Leicester and Bristol. Cole isn't going to  be picked.

Not seen it. I doubt Cole's going to get picked as well, if he was 10 years younger very different story. Been a very odd season for big Dan. Very underwhelming scrum performances by his normal standards but loose play like someone at least 10 years younger, I think that might have been due to the summer fitness regime, he's looking leaner now. Something similar happened with Heyes over lockdown, the new S&C coach really shaved off the spare pounds and then built him back up. Meant Heyes scrum work went backwards before coming good again. Dan came back after a rest over the European games fired up for the set piece as well, saw some pretty destructive work there. 

Re the Bristol game the battle was really on the other side. Cole had the Bristol looseheads on toast. The issues were Montoya's hooking technique falling foul of the ref at an inopportune time and Genge Vs Sinckler, which was a little heated. Sincks using all of his tricks to stay in that particular fight (fair play he's an international tighthead it's what he's paid for).

Collier isn't so age sensitive a selection, he could very well add a cap or two this 6N.

Re Lynagh he doesn't look ready for international rugby yet, still learning his trade. He'll gain more being at Quins and keep getting the game time. I don't think Eddie's going to be allowed a big enough squad to facilitate any apprentice style inclusions.

May be worth seeking it out. Interesting analysis.

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Post by Poorfour Wed 12 Jan 2022, 1:15 pm

On what basis doesn't Lynagh look ready for international rugby yet, Sam? What do you see as his work ons?
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Post by king_carlos Wed 12 Jan 2022, 3:44 pm

Poorfour wrote:Radwan and Lynagh are different styles of player, though. Radwan will create something out of nothing, Lynagh will finish stuff he has no right to finish and also gives a second fullback option in the backfield.

Malins is deservedly ahead of him in the pecking order (and offers fly half backup as well, at least in theory), though I suspect the biggest barrier to Lynagh getting capped is his own team mate. Eddie clearly sees Marchant as a wing more than a centre, for all that Slade and Marchant looked great together and did a better job of unpicking the Bok defence than the cream of Britain and Ireland.
We scored 2 tries with one of them being a massive defensive lapse from de Allende and Jantjies rather than a moment of attacking brilliance. It was a good win and they meshed well together but some perspective is needed I think. It's not really comparable to a three test series. Especially with the Boks having some significant absentees in Malherbe, Kolbe, PSdT and Faf for that game.

Personally I struggle to see Slade and Marchant working long term as I think both are best at 13. Slade's biggest strength is his defending in the outside centre channel. Playing him at 12 negates that.

I thought having Slade at first receiver early in phase play suited him well as it meant he had simple decisions to execute which is where he's tended to work better. Both those tries started from Slade at first receiver from a lineout throwing a seemingly predetermined pass to Steward for the first, then Marchant for the second. Slade has also performed that role when partnered with Manu though so not a tactic specific to Slade partnering Marchant or being at 12.

Marchant to me looks a rare centre who can genuinely play wing just as well. His high ball work, positioning and kicking all stack up as a winger which is rare. It's a great option for England to have.

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Post by bsando Wed 12 Jan 2022, 6:10 pm

Poorfour wrote:Radwan and Lynagh are different styles of player, though. Radwan will create something out of nothing, Lynagh will finish stuff he has no right to finish and also gives a second fullback option in the backfield.

Malins is deservedly ahead of him in the pecking order (and offers fly half backup as well, at least in theory), though I suspect the biggest barrier to Lynagh getting capped is his own team mate. Eddie clearly sees Marchant as a wing more than a centre, for all that Slade and Marchant looked great together and did a better job of unpicking the Bok defence than the cream of Britain and Ireland.

England could be playing a really fast and exciting back three in Radwan, Lynagh and with Malins at fullback. It may seem like a young and inexperienced back three but considering these players respective form on paper it looks like a very good option. Especially with Watson injured and May only just back from injury himself I believe. I've also been very impressed with Dombrandt but will EJ be starting him? Or continuing with Curry at 8?

9. Randall
10. Smith
11. Radwan
12. Tuilagi (if fit)
13. Marchant
14. Lynagh
15. Malins

21. Youngs 22. Ford 23. May

A backline like that scares the hell out of me as a Scots fan. Is that just totally off the mark? Or will some of these players be starting at Murrayfield?

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 12 Jan 2022, 6:19 pm

Poorfour wrote:On what basis doesn't Lynagh look ready for international rugby yet, Sam? What do you see as his work ons?

Positional, defence and kicking. The bits young wingers generally have to learn. He's not far off but think this 6N is a little soon. He got pulled out of position by Ford and Youngs at WR where by advancing instead of retreating he isolated himself. Missed catch Vs Chiefs at the weekend. Kick related errors ahead of a game Vs Scotland where conditions will be bad and there will be kicking, think it just might count against him. He's got age on his side. Without any injuries in the squad it will be difficult for him to force a way in ahead of someone like Freeman that covers wing and fullback.

Did Eddie get his expanded squad of 32 or is it still at 28, does anyone know?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 12 Jan 2022, 6:23 pm

bsando wrote:
Poorfour wrote:Radwan and Lynagh are different styles of player, though. Radwan will create something out of nothing, Lynagh will finish stuff he has no right to finish and also gives a second fullback option in the backfield.

Malins is deservedly ahead of him in the pecking order (and offers fly half backup as well, at least in theory), though I suspect the biggest barrier to Lynagh getting capped is his own team mate. Eddie clearly sees Marchant as a wing more than a centre, for all that Slade and Marchant looked great together and did a better job of unpicking the Bok defence than the cream of Britain and Ireland.

England could be playing a really fast and exciting back three in Radwan, Lynagh and with Malins at fullback. It may seem like a young and inexperienced back three but considering these players respective form on paper it looks like a very good option. Especially with Watson injured and May only just back from injury himself I believe. I've also been very impressed with Dombrandt but will EJ be starting him? Or continuing with Curry at 8?  

9. Randall
10. Smith
11. Radwan
12. Tuilagi (if fit)
13. Marchant
14. Lynagh
15. Malins

21. Youngs 22. Ford 23. May

A backline like that scares the hell out of me as a Scots fan. Is that just totally off the mark? Or will some of these players be starting at Murrayfield?

Has to play Steward and May of fit.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 16 Jan 2022, 2:09 pm

Anyone want to have a punt at next weeks squad?

1.Marler, Genge, Rodd
2.LCD, George, Blamire
3.Sinckler, Stuart, Davison
4.Itoje
5.Hill, Ewels
6.Lawes, Barbeary
7.Curry, Underhill, Ludlam
8.Dombrandt, Simmonds

9.Youngs, Quirke, Mitchell
10.Smith, Farrell/Ford (depends on fitness)

11.May
12.Tuilagi, Atkinson
13.Slade, Marchant
14.Malins, Radwan
15.Steward, Furbank

That would be my prediction.

George Martin has missed out on the last two weekends but we don't know whether that's injury, covid, etc as Tigers don't release anything on fitness status under Borthwick. I have a feeling he may miss out with Barbeary coming in. Had he been fit I think it would've been very interesting to see if Simmonds missed out for Barbeary as I think the young Wasp has to make it in.

The backs are hard to predict as we have no idea whether Farrell might be on the verge of regaining fitness. If he doesn't make it I think Ford will get a recall as going into the Six Nations with Malins or Furbank covering 10 would be depressing.

Farrell's fitness issues should help Atkinson I think as a specialist 12.

My prediction is Mitchell will keep his spot ahead of Randall despite the latter regain fitness. I could see either being selected though.

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Post by mountain man Mon 17 Jan 2022, 10:24 am

Squad players are probably going to be same as autumn with one or two changes due to injury. By far biggest thing is what 23 and especially what XV Jones picks. Smith HAS to be 10, Dombrandt HAS to 8 (not Curry!). Radwen needs to be in 23. Unfortunately it'll be Youngs at 9 but Quirke then on bench. Manu won't be ready so Marchant and Slade in centre(I'm assuming Farrell not fit).

Genge needs to sort himself out, that was a totally unnecessary yellow and another ref could have given red. Opposition teams target him for a wind up knowing he's likely to respond. If this happens in 6N or RWC, could cost England a trophy. It's one thing to play with an "edge", another to be stupid.
Furbank been excellent for Saints but he's not impressed for Eng, Tonga aside but that was a win all day long regardless.
Barbeary brilliant for Wasps on weekend, back row be hotly contested. Maybe Underhill misses out?

Whatever, only thing guaranteed in Jones will make some left field pick on player or position!

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Post by lostinwales Mon 17 Jan 2022, 10:36 am

Genge is an interesting case. For all the aggro he causes he gets very few cards. He plays right on the limit but usually he's very aware of where the line is.

Doesn't mean he should escape censure over what happened, but the reality is he's much less of an issue than his reputation would suggest,.

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Post by mountain man Mon 17 Jan 2022, 10:48 am

lostinwales wrote:Genge is an interesting case. For all the aggro he causes he gets very few cards. He plays right on the limit but usually he's very aware of where the line is.

Doesn't mean he should escape censure over what happened, but the reality is he's much less of an issue than his reputation would suggest,.

Fair enough but because of said reputation he does get targeted and in doing so liable to react and hence card. He also alienated lots of fans by his video stunt with going to Bears. I'm not a Tigers fan by the way but thought it was crass, unnecessary and inflammatory especially as Tigers capt.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 17 Jan 2022, 11:43 am

I still scratch my head over Genge and Sinckler being picked up so often over their aggression. I see LCD and George (the latter frankly a lot) get riled and involved in incidents. Marler of course goes without saying, regularly has ongoing battles through games. They're all front row and the amount of simmering anger alot of these guys hold due to their position in the team makes it unsurprising for me.

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Post by Poorfour Mon 17 Jan 2022, 12:23 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I still scratch my head over Genge and Sinckler being picked up so often over their aggression. I see LCD and George (the latter frankly a lot) get riled and involved in incidents. Marler of course goes without saying, regularly has ongoing battles through games. They're all front row and the amount of simmering anger alot of these guys hold due to their position in the team makes it unsurprising for me.

As they get older and wilier they learn how to wind people up without getting dinged for it themselves. You can see it with Marler - he gets dinged for the occasional mistimed tackle but not much else these days. Sinckler is going the same way. Genge still has to learn it but is improving. Reputations, though, once gained take a long time to fade.
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Post by GeordieFalcon Mon 17 Jan 2022, 12:28 pm

Apparently Worcester Warriors' South African flanker Kyle Hatherell is going to be named...

https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/sport/19852545.worcester-warriors-flanker-set-england-six-nations-squad/

If this is legit....i wash my hands of Eddie

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 17 Jan 2022, 12:38 pm

You don't rate him?

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Post by GeordieFalcon Mon 17 Jan 2022, 12:56 pm

Ive never seen or heard of him.

But hes SA so you know exactly where i stand on this on 7.5...if theres remotely any truth in it.

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Post by Cumbrian Mon 17 Jan 2022, 1:27 pm

Don't know much about the fellow but he seems to cover lock, flaner and no.8, so would tick a box for Eddie. Honestly though, with the amount of competition in the back-row at the moment, it hardly seems necessary. I'd have thought that Eddie would have gone for Ted Hill if he wanted a bulky back-row/ second-row from Worcester...
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Post by lostinwales Mon 17 Jan 2022, 1:52 pm

He is listed as EQ, at least on wikipedia.

In all honesty we don't need another back row but Eddie does like a look at these guys and of course he likes a talking point that is not about the core team. Sounds like his journey has been similar to Dolly's.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 17 Jan 2022, 1:59 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ive never seen or heard of him.

But hes SA so you know exactly where i stand on this on 7.5...if theres remotely any truth in it.

Ah, got you.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 17 Jan 2022, 2:01 pm

Haven't seen enough of Worcester to know if he's good or not. Given he's looked closely at a few like Hill, Ludlow, Ludlam etc over the last few years seems he just likes a good view. If he's deemed good enough all the better.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Mon 17 Jan 2022, 2:01 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Ive never seen or heard of him.

But hes SA so you know exactly where i stand on this on 7.5...if theres remotely any truth in it.

Ah, got you.

Its called....INTERNATIONAL rugby....ie people from this country playing people from other countries.... Wink

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Post by GeordieFalcon Mon 17 Jan 2022, 2:03 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Haven't seen enough of Worcester to know if he's good or not. Given he's looked closely at a few like Hill, Ludlow, Ludlam etc over the last few years seems he just likes a good view. If he's deemed good enough all the better.

So why not just play Ludlum or Hill? Ludlum is a crackin player.

Anyway...hypothetical as surely it is wild journalism column inches...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 17 Jan 2022, 2:05 pm

Don't particularly rate either. Ludlam is the better of the 2 for me but I'd personally only pick him if there were a fair few injuries before. Like I said not really seen much of this new guy but he can only be better than Ludlow!

Hill has been in the squad and even on the pitch, didn't do enough obviously to turn the heads of the coaching team.

Sorry read that as a Ludlow/Ludlam thing not Hill intiially. And yes could quite possibly be a Wuss reporter adding some England colour to a write up ahead of the squad.

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Post by mountain man Mon 17 Jan 2022, 2:14 pm

There is so much strength in Enlgand with back row and 2nd row we surely don't need to go down Scotlands route and start importing players from SA.
And before any Scottish fans start leaping up and down in indignation, yes all teams do it pretty much but it's wrong. Especially those who wait until 3 years(as it was) qualify time is up then immediately get parachuted into team.


Last edited by mountain man on Mon 17 Jan 2022, 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 17 Jan 2022, 2:21 pm

Play to the rules. We've not doing a Wales/Scotland thing of picking players who don't qualify for us. You can't expect Jones to just ignore players who are eligible when its overall his job on the line. If the RFU wanted to ban players who were born abroad I assume they could, but it wouldn't be a good look.

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