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6 Nations Round 2 - Italy v England

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 08 Feb 2022, 4:20 am

First topic message reminder :

Italy vs England

Stadio Olimpico, Rome
Sunday 13th of February 2022
Kick Off - 3pm


Italy Team

Padovani; Mori, Brex, Zanon, Ioane; Garbisi, Varney; Fischetti, Lucchesi, Petro Ceccarelli, Cannone, Ruzza, Steyn, Lamaro (capt), Halafihi.

Replacements: Faiva, Traore, Pasquali, Sisi, Negri, Pettinelli, Fusco, Marin.


England Team

Steward; Malins, Marchant, Slade, Nowell; Smith, Randall; Genge, George, Stuart, Ewels, Isiekwe, Itoje, Curry (capt), Dombrandt.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Marler, Sinckler, Chessum, Simmonds, Youngs, Ford, Daly.


Last edited by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 11 Feb 2022, 4:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by king_carlos Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:22 pm

Italy really struggle to realign defensively when sides go through more than a few phases. Their line speed and then organisation just seems to completely fall apart.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:22 pm

Feels weird seeing someone other that Smith get points.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:24 pm

I'd expect Steward to get that pass away. England forcing it when not necessary then not forcing it with a penalty advantage.

The maul is looking better though!

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Post by king_carlos Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:26 pm

Is it just me or does Malins have a strange tendency of slowing down at the last minute on kick chase at moments when he should be looking to pressure the opposition back three with a hit?

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:26 pm

Malins just doesn't look comfortable KC...

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:28 pm

king_carlos wrote:Is it just me or does Malins have a strange tendency of slowing down at the last minute on kick chase at moments when he should be looking to pressure the opposition back three with a hit?

He's not a winger......he just doesn't look to make that break.

Smith has been excellent. Randall's passing very sharp.

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Post by Heaf Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:31 pm

Nowell off not good ...

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Post by king_carlos Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:31 pm

Such a shame seeing Nowell off for the HIA. With May and Watson out we could really use a genuine winger being fit.

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Post by Heaf Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:32 pm

We had a couple in the squad but they got sent back to their clubs

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:32 pm

Would this not have been a great game for Radwan...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:33 pm

Genge getting in the ear of the ref. Feels Italy are going down in the scrums as England put the pressure on.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:34 pm

A genuine winger with a bit of international experience I probably should have added.

I rate both Radwan and OHC but if either were to start against Wales, Ireland or France I'd ideally want someone of May or Nowell's class and experience on the other wing.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:35 pm

king_carlos wrote:A genuine winger with a bit of international experience I probably should have added.

I rate both Radwan and OHC but if either were to start against Wales, Ireland or France I'd ideally want someone of May or Nowell's class and experience on the other wing.
How did Ashton go then?

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Post by Heaf Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:35 pm

Italy giving away a bucket loads of pens ...

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Post by king_carlos Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:36 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Genge getting in the ear of the ref. Feels Italy are going down in the scrums as England put the pressure on.
To me it looks like both sides are trying to set so low that neither can stay up when the shove comes through. Both props just ending up hinging at the waist and going to deck. IMO the ref should be telling both front rows to set higher so they can actually scrummage.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:37 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
king_carlos wrote:A genuine winger with a bit of international experience I probably should have added.

I rate both Radwan and OHC but if either were to start against Wales, Ireland or France I'd ideally want someone of May or Nowell's class and experience on the other wing.
How did Ashton go then?
Made a try saving tackle during 5 minutes on as a HIA replacement. Then got binned for being farcically offside 3 phases on the bounce after being subbed on tactically. Let's call it eclectic.  Laugh

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Post by Soul Requiem Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:38 pm

Questions to be asked of the referee rushing that decision on Nowell.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:38 pm

England really in the driving seat at the moment.

Italy are looking dangerous with ball in hand at times.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:39 pm

We've given stupid lineout penalties like that away multiple times across the Autumn and now Six Nations. We just miss Kruis so much.

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Post by Heaf Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:39 pm

hmmm seemed a harsh call to me ...

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Post by EnglishReign Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:39 pm

Surprised Thorley wasn’t favoured over Malins.

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Post by Heaf Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:40 pm

Time for a team warning surely

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Post by Heaf Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:41 pm

and there you have it ..

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:41 pm

Will Stuart is having a busy game.

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Post by EnglishReign Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:42 pm

Randall needs to speed this up a bit

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Post by Heaf Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:43 pm

England should have scored there

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Post by king_carlos Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:43 pm

Heaf wrote:hmmm seemed a harsh call to me ...
If we want to stop mauls dominating the game then it's the sort of thing that needs reffing a lot more harshly. Lifters blocking like that make it so much easier to get the ball set at the back of the maul, from where it so often ends in a penalty, kick to touch, maul, another penalty, etc.

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Post by Heaf Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:45 pm

king_carlos wrote:
Heaf wrote:hmmm seemed a harsh call to me ...
If we want to stop mauls dominating the game then it's the sort of thing that needs reffing a lot more harshly. Lifters blocking like that make it so much easier to get the ball set at the back of the maul, from where it so often ends in a penalty, kick to touch, maul, another penalty, etc.

Looked like he started off more side-on to me though?

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Post by lostinwales Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:45 pm

Stuart is a donkey

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:46 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
king_carlos wrote:Is it just me or does Malins have a strange tendency of slowing down at the last minute on kick chase at moments when he should be looking to pressure the opposition back three with a hit?

He's not a winger......he just doesn't look to make that break.

Smith has been excellent. Randall's passing very sharp.

Yeah we'll just skip the shanked kick out on the full from possession in the Italian half then. Randall's passing is good, he's rapid but what he needs to display today is that he manage the game. So far missing but there's still time. England as a whole didn't show up well in the first 10 mins.

Smith started slow and clunky but he's moving through the gears now. A bit too much footwork which slowed the attack early doors but now he's found the groove it's starting to tick. Helps when the forwards stop knocking the thing on as well.

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Post by lostinwales Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:47 pm

EnglishReign wrote:Surprised Thorley wasn’t favoured over Malins.

Thorley seems to be completely out of the picture. I think Jones saw something he didn't like when Thorley got his cap. Next in line would be Radwan

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:47 pm

Heaf wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
Heaf wrote:hmmm seemed a harsh call to me ...
If we want to stop mauls dominating the game then it's the sort of thing that needs reffing a lot more harshly. Lifters blocking like that make it so much easier to get the ball set at the back of the maul, from where it so often ends in a penalty, kick to touch, maul, another penalty, etc.

Looked like he started off more side-on to me though?

Looked a clear pen to me. He steps around and stops the Italian lock getting to Itoje.

Better kick from Randall there, touch short but much more like what we need from him.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:48 pm

That was a canny try

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Post by king_carlos Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:48 pm

Heaf wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
Heaf wrote:hmmm seemed a harsh call to me ...
If we want to stop mauls dominating the game then it's the sort of thing that needs reffing a lot more harshly. Lifters blocking like that make it so much easier to get the ball set at the back of the maul, from where it so often ends in a penalty, kick to touch, maul, another penalty, etc.

Looked like he started off more side-on to me though?
He's side on the whole time but clearly steps in front of the jumper, hence in front of the ball carrier.

It's something that didn't get reffed strictly for years but has been clamped down on at club and international level due to how prominent it was. Similar to that second roll from the ball carrier after getting tackled being clamped down on.

England have just seemed slower than others to respond. I'd say it's a symptom of the locks we've had playing in place of Kruis, Lawes and Launchbury just not being at the same standard if I were being brutally honest.

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Post by lostinwales Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:49 pm

lostinwales wrote:
EnglishReign wrote:Surprised Thorley wasn’t favoured over Malins.

Thorley seems to be completely out of the picture. I think Jones saw something he didn't like when Thorley got his cap. Next in line would be Radwan

Or possibly George ....

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:49 pm

Good half overall. Shame about Nowell.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:50 pm

That's two tries Varney has gifted to the opposition this 6 nations.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:50 pm

Thoughts on Dombrandt?

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Post by majesticimperialman Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:50 pm

Is it just an England thing playing an hooker on the wing? Jamie George this week, Luke Cowan Dickie last week. Great try by the way.

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Post by EnglishReign Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:51 pm

lostinwales wrote:
EnglishReign wrote:Surprised Thorley wasn’t favoured over Malins.

Thorley seems to be completely out of the picture. I think Jones saw something he didn't like when Thorley got his cap. Next in line would be Radwan

Absolutely, it’s an interesting one. They are all pretty similar players but Thorley is rapid and strong in the tight. Like you imply though, a return doesn’t look likely.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:51 pm

Cracking try.

Jamie George always looks better starting these days. From the bench his strengths seem nullified somewhat. I think LCD is the better player overall with his physicality in contact but also a much better bench option due to the impact he can have against tiring forwards. It's an interesting selection conundrum. I do wonder if Proudfoot being coach might look at using LCD from the bench as the Boks use Marx.

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Post by Heaf Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:52 pm

king_carlos wrote:
Heaf wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
Heaf wrote:hmmm seemed a harsh call to me ...
If we want to stop mauls dominating the game then it's the sort of thing that needs reffing a lot more harshly. Lifters blocking like that make it so much easier to get the ball set at the back of the maul, from where it so often ends in a penalty, kick to touch, maul, another penalty, etc.

Looked like he started off more side-on to me though?
He's side on the whole time but clearly steps in front of the jumper, hence in front of the ball carrier.

It's something that didn't get reffed strictly for years but has been clamped down on at club and international level due to how prominent it was. Similar to that second roll from the ball carrier after getting tackled being clamped down on.

England have just seemed slower than others to respond. I'd say it's a symptom of the locks we've had playing in place of Kruis, Lawes and Launchbury just not being at the same standard if I were being brutally honest.

OK fair enough thumbsup

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Post by king_carlos Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:55 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Thoughts on Dombrandt?
Dombrandt's playing?  Whistle

Jokes aside, I think it's a good example of him needing to mould himself into the teams systems better. The best attacking chances have come from moving the ball wider rather than carrying off 9, around the ruck where Dombrandt runs such brilliant lines for Quins. He has all the pace, power and handling skills to be a fantastic carrier wider out as well where England are making yards easily today. He just needs to react to that and get his hands on the ball. At the moment it feels like the game is happening around him.

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Post by lostinwales Sun 13 Feb 2022, 3:58 pm

king_carlos wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Thoughts on Dombrandt?
Dombrandt's playing?  Whistle

Jokes aside, I think it's a good example of him needing to mould himself into the teams systems better. The best attacking chances have come from moving the ball wider rather than carrying off 9, around the ruck where Dombrandt runs such brilliant lines for Quins. He has all the pace, power and handling skills to be a fantastic carrier wider out as well where England are making yards easily today. He just needs to react to that and get his hands on the ball. At the moment it feels like the game is happening around him.

He did get a very useful turnover. I think in general he's been carrying in the tight, not making metres and not really tying defenders in either. In other words he's been fine but not outstanding.

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Post by lostinwales Sun 13 Feb 2022, 4:00 pm

Randall seems to be playing as expected. Dangerous enough around the ruck to definitely keeping the defense interested, but his kicking is not exactly generating confidence

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sun 13 Feb 2022, 4:02 pm

We're seeing the real Smith this week with some fast service, he's a real joy to watch.....he's just on a different level to Ford/Farrell in attack.

Randall has went really well, bar the poor kick to touch. I would argue that his box kicking has been better than Youngs in general (Youngs has kicked really poor of late)....and his passing is obviously a step up.

Dombrandt hasn't looked his Quins self but has carried well and showed up physically.

It's a shame we don't have any wingers and you'd expect a few more points on the board really.


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Post by doctor_grey Sun 13 Feb 2022, 4:03 pm

My halftime summary: nice but nothing special. Meh.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 13 Feb 2022, 4:04 pm

Sinckler already on. Fischetti is a solid player but a small LH. I'd hope Sinckler can give him more issues than Stuart did.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 13 Feb 2022, 4:07 pm

Argh, looked so good but not quite the accuracy.

Fabulous lineout take from Ewels.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sun 13 Feb 2022, 4:09 pm

Great break from Randall.......and another knock on.

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