6 Nations Round 4 - England v Ireland

England v Ireland

Twickers, London
Saturday 12th March 2022
Kick Off - 1645hrs

England team


Ireland team

There's a lot of woe is me going on about England in the press which bemuses me slightly. I'm overly enthused about the guys outside Smith bar Steward but once again the pack looked good. Not seen anything on Curry's condition but I do wonder if its time now to switch Barbeary into the squad for Simmonds who didn't really do too much. And Launchbury will probably be back into the squad for this game?

Ireland will rip England a new one! Its going to be painful

Doubt it, think it will be tight but the pack will get on top. I do think there will be changes in the backline though. Hopefully Randall continues to get starts, would love Quirke to come in too. Randall, Smith Steward seem to have taken their chances and hopefully that prompts Jones to roll the dice a couple more times.

Losing Curry for this one would be a huge blow to England. Its really hard for them to field a vaguely balanced back row with him, Underhill and Willis missing. Barberry, Simmonds, Dombrant, Lawes is not a realistic set of options, so assume Ludlam will come back in if hes fit? Pretty average replacement for Englands key breakdown guy. Have to hope hes passing well through the protocols.

That aside they need to find something in attack. Noone likes to believe it but the toothlessness theyve suffered cant just be blamed on Youngs/Farrell any longer. Again looking around the squad its hard to see where players coming in are likely to make a big difference to that.

Frustrated with Daly who again has failed to impress in yet another position, he was good as a wing which in theory he was the least suited to. Given Slade will have to keep covering 12 Id like to see Marchant at 13 and Daly pushed out to the wing over Malins or Nowell. Radwan could come in as a wildcard, but that doesnt seem likely given hes not been making the shortlists let alone 23.

Ireland wont be so easy to get dominant possession and territory over in the first half in the way the previous oppositions have been.

Id have Ireland favourites for this one, and doubly so if Currys out. England missing too many pieces.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Doubt it, think it will be tight but the pack will get on top. I do think there will be changes in the backline though. Hopefully Randall continues to get starts, would love Quirke to come in too. Randall, Smith Steward seem to have taken their chances and hopefully that prompts Jones to roll the dice a couple more times.

Hope they try and scrum this time.

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Doubt it, think it will be tight but the pack will get on top. I do think there will be changes in the backline though. Hopefully Randall continues to get starts, would love Quirke to come in too. Randall, Smith Steward seem to have taken their chances and hopefully that prompts Jones to roll the dice a couple more times.

Hope they try and scrum this time.

I think Ireland will fancy their chances so won't bottle it as Wales did.

There are clearly things misfiring or uncoordinated in the England attack. And frankly, the fringe defense as well. Regarding the attack though, I recall a number of times Smith got the ball and there was no one running on to it or really moving much at all. One time even the commentators mentioned Smith had nowhere to go with the ball. And that was simply Smith receiving a pass from Randall, turning and looking to move it on. Coaching, players, what?

Gooseberry wrote:Losing Curry for this one would be a huge blow to England. Its really hard for them to field a vaguely balanced back row with him, Underhill and Willis missing. Barberry, Simmonds, Dombrant, Lawes is not a realistic set of options, so assume Ludlam will come back in if hes fit? Pretty average replacement for Englands key breakdown guy. Have to hope hes passing well through the protocols.

That aside they need to find something in attack. Noone likes to believe it but the toothlessness theyve suffered cant just be blamed on Youngs/Farrell any longer. Again looking around the squad its hard to see where players coming in are likely to make a big difference to that.

Frustrated with Daly who again has failed to impress in yet another position, he was good as a wing which in theory he was the least suited to. Given Slade will have to keep covering 12 Id like to see Marchant at 13 and Daly pushed out to the wing over Malins or Nowell. Radwan could come in as a wildcard, but that doesnt seem likely given hes not been making the shortlists let alone 23.

Ireland wont be so easy to get dominant possession and territory over in the first half in the way the previous oppositions have been.

Id have Ireland favourites for this one, and doubly so if Currys out. England missing too many pieces.

There's still Reffell available if he felt the need to get a proper openside in I believe? As for players to come and make a difference you could get Ojomoh, Kelly, Lawrence, Odogwu, Dingwall, Atkinson, Radwan, Hassell-Collins, Cokansiga into the squad who would all be an improvement on what we had. Farrell is a big miss as is Tuilagi of course, should be back for Ireland by the sounds of it.

Nice to see Randall play so well though.

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Doubt it, think it will be tight but the pack will get on top. I do think there will be changes in the backline though. Hopefully Randall continues to get starts, would love Quirke to come in too. Randall, Smith Steward seem to have taken their chances and hopefully that prompts Jones to roll the dice a couple more times.

Hope they try and scrum this time.

Francis had to go down on his knees and beg for his career when packing down against Genge and W.Jones obviously didn't like the smell of Sinkler's deodorant as he wouldn't get close enough to pack down properly.

We should be looking to see if Juarno Augustus has an English Granny or if we could retrospectively grant a grandparent citizenship. He is exactly what England need at 8, big, fast, happy to do the hard yards and successful at it. He also hell on wheels when running onto the ball in space. Nicknamed ‘trokkie’ (truck) by his Stormers teammates, it says it all about his ball carrying ability.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Doubt it, think it will be tight but the pack will get on top. I do think there will be changes in the backline though. Hopefully Randall continues to get starts, would love Quirke to come in too. Randall, Smith Steward seem to have taken their chances and hopefully that prompts Jones to roll the dice a couple more times.

Hope they try and scrum this time.

Francis had to go down on his knees and beg for his career when packing down against Genge and W.Jones obviously didn't like the smell of Sinkler's deodorant as he wouldn't get close enough to pack down properly.

Glad the ref got it right at least, England have scrum problems.

mikey_dragon wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Doubt it, think it will be tight but the pack will get on top. I do think there will be changes in the backline though. Hopefully Randall continues to get starts, would love Quirke to come in too. Randall, Smith Steward seem to have taken their chances and hopefully that prompts Jones to roll the dice a couple more times.

Hope they try and scrum this time.

Francis had to go down on his knees and beg for his career when packing down against Genge and W.Jones obviously didn't like the smell of Sinkler's deodorant as he wouldn't get close enough to pack down properly.

Glad the ref got it right at least, England have scrum problems.

It was an incorrect call from the touchline not the ref.

Good to see Wales continuing their tradition of weak scrummaging locks hampering their props performance

The touchline ref and ref got those calls right, it was quite clear. Too bad they missed Itoje's push for the try. #FakeTry

Wales did well against Ireland in the scrum I thought and against England....the ref never really had a clue what was going on.

Going from that, you'd expect it to be a pretty tight affair.

The less said about the Welsh lineout perhaps the better, Ireland will be much stronger here.

Mikey............if your only intention on the Eng v Ire thread is to wum about the Wales game, you may find yourself having a little holiday.

Give it a break lads

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Losing Curry for this one would be a huge blow to England. Its really hard for them to field a vaguely balanced back row with him, Underhill and Willis missing. Barberry, Simmonds, Dombrant, Lawes is not a realistic set of options, so assume Ludlam will come back in if hes fit? Pretty average replacement for Englands key breakdown guy. Have to hope hes passing well through the protocols.

That aside they need to find something in attack. Noone likes to believe it but the toothlessness theyve suffered cant just be blamed on Youngs/Farrell any longer. Again looking around the squad its hard to see where players coming in are likely to make a big difference to that.

Frustrated with Daly who again has failed to impress in yet another position, he was good as a wing which in theory he was the least suited to. Given Slade will have to keep covering 12 Id like to see Marchant at 13 and Daly pushed out to the wing over Malins or Nowell. Radwan could come in as a wildcard, but that doesnt seem likely given hes not been making the shortlists let alone 23.

Ireland wont be so easy to get dominant possession and territory over in the first half in the way the previous oppositions have been.

Id have Ireland favourites for this one, and doubly so if Currys out. England missing too many pieces.

There's still Reffell available if he felt the need to get a proper openside in I believe? As for players to come and make a difference you could get Ojomoh, Kelly, Lawrence, Odogwu, Dingwall, Atkinson, Radwan, Hassell-Collins, Cokansiga into the squad who would all be an improvement on what we had. Farrell is a big miss as is Tuilagi of course, should be back for Ireland by the sounds of it.

Nice to see Randall play so well though.

Id forgotten about Tuilagi in the equation, but pretty safe to assume he'll be injured again anyway. I doubt any of those listed will be drafted in for this game as above, and not exactly convinced that most (especially Lawrence which is surely reaching?) would actually make a point of difference. Hes almost certainly going to shuffle what was in the squad. Reffell too might technically be available but it would be a really wild leap for Jones to suddenly parachute him into a team.

If Tuilagi does play 12 as it appeared he wouldve against Wales, that allows Slade to slide across and does open up possibilities on the wings. Malins is a cracking player but anonymous out there, as dodgy as Nowell was I think hes more likely to survive of the two. Cant see him going out of the players used so far if Tuilagi is available.

Have to assume Jones will continue with Randall as the starter and focus on getting the fast play early. Smith mentioned in the post match he was happy with the faster ball so its not just a perception. That said Youngs was clearly trying to snap things out faster too when he came on, and less of the directing traffic stuff. Dawson seemed to think the half backs were still shackled though, and that Randall was replaced due to fatigue which if true is quite worrying. Would seem odd for Jones to back off Randall now though if he has done what was asked of him, and replacing the SH at 60 minutes if hes flagging not any big deal as Jones goes for the 20 minute finishers anyway. That he didnt bring Ford on at all in the last game shows how much hes willing to back these younger players when they do well, and again highlights how confident Smith looked with his goal kicking late on despite the increasing pressure (ignoring the one he missed, but came back with two good kicks right after).

Having the props stay fit/avoid getting banned is a nice change for England but the rest of the pack is looking increasingly patchwork and a case of seeing who actually turns up on any given day.

Malins looked a lot better in the Autumn with more space to operate in. 6N games are often claustrophobic but he's not showing anything.

It is really tricky at the moment. The young guns on the wings are not being trusted or not ready and the best of the old guard are currently broken. Big Joe did play at the weekend but that was the first time for how long? Then there there is Thorley who obviously didn't measure up for some reason.

Joe C is on the comeback trail and did get two walk over tries against the Falcons.
He has been apparently ripping up trees in training at Bath. Joe has obvious size/pace but it is his footwork that unsettles would be tacklers and his momentum does the rest.

I think the last time he played Ireland, their back three didn't work out how to deal with him. England could do with some of that for Saturday week. It will be a very different Irish fullback and wings this time - but Keenan, Hansen Conway/Lowe are not big players, who so far have not been targeted in this tournament.
Set plays off scrum and lineout with Joe and Jack racing up the middle for an offload would be a pretty sight. EJ could do a lot worse than consider the scenario.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:We should be looking to see if Juarno Augustus has an English Granny or if we could retrospectively grant a grandparent citizenship. He is exactly what England need at 8, big, fast, happy to do the hard yards and successful at it. He also hell on wheels when running onto the ball in space. Nicknamed ‘trokkie’ (truck) by his Stormers teammates, it says it all about his ball carrying ability.

If he's available then I think you should be looking at Dave Ribbans. Too bad Rowlands didn't declare for you, and he was really good on the weekend again... huge loss for England .

For England to improve in the backs it is pretty much as a lot of you say, get some actual wingers. May, Joe C, Radwan, Thorley, OHC are what I percieve as very good options. Slade and Daly need to come out of it, but either would be a good bench option. Marchant to 13.

mikey, I have never seen Dave Ribbans play at 8, have you some inside information that Saints and EJ do not have.

As for wingers, the forgotten man seems to be Sleightholme, he was around the squad until he got injured.

Saints may have another potential saviour for England at 8, Duane Willemsen, 21 years old, a mere 1.98m tall and weighing in at 128kg, a more athletic BV sort of size. English qualified and a cousin of Nemani Nadolo, so he has pedigree. I can't wait to see him get going.

I think he could do a job there. It's better than Curry playing 8.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ireland will rip England a new one! Its going to be painful

Not convinced. England dont score many tries but they dont concede many tries either. If Sexton starts Ireland will grind out a win. Carbery starts England will grind out a win.

The, Question for me is who has the most to get out of this week ends games.
England ground out a win after a very strong Wales fight back.

Ireland won an easy game against a 12 Italy. I mean come even the All Blacks would struggle playing with 12 men against even an average side.

So England playing at home might just have the edge over Ireland.

Well if that's your logic Ireland did comfortably beat Wales and Ireland did score the same amount of tries in two games as England had in three and now more than double the tally that England have scored.

Not that it actually makes any difference at all however if you did an all time six nations table with the points added up over each campaign Ireland and England would top the table on the exact same number of points 211. So there is a lot on the line for this game.

Surprises me.

Home advantage seems to count for a lot in England v Ireland games, but Ireland are much further along in their rebuilding than England. Depending a bit on whether Curry has recovered, I'd expect England to have parity in the pack, but unless players start running the lines that give Smith options in attack they will not score the points.

Poorfour wrote:Home advantage seems to count for a lot in England v Ireland games, but Ireland are much further along in their rebuilding than England. Depending a bit on whether Curry has recovered, I'd expect England to have parity in the pack, but unless players start running the lines that give Smith options in attack they will not score the points.

Absolutely agree. No one running on the ball means no one scoring tries, unless the other team makes a mistake, as in the lineout!

No 7&1/2 wrote:Surprises me.

Both teams have earned 89 points away from home too although England have played 1 extra game away but Ireland have won one more game away than England which means Ireland have won the most away games in the six nations.

Gooseberry wrote:Frustrated with Daly who again has failed to impress in yet another position, he was good as a wing which in theory he was the least suited to. Given Slade will have to keep covering 12 Id like to see Marchant at 13 and Daly pushed out to the wing over Malins or Nowell. Radwan could come in as a wildcard, but that doesnt seem likely given hes not been making the shortlists let alone 23.

Ireland wont be so easy to get dominant possession and territory over in the first half in the way the previous oppositions have been.

Wasn't Daly pretty poor on the wing though? I seem to remember his defence being suspect and him not being secure under high balls, that's not what you want against Ireland!

yappysnap wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Frustrated with Daly who again has failed to impress in yet another position, he was good as a wing which in theory he was the least suited to. Given Slade will have to keep covering 12 Id like to see Marchant at 13 and Daly pushed out to the wing over Malins or Nowell. Radwan could come in as a wildcard, but that doesnt seem likely given hes not been making the shortlists let alone 23.

Ireland wont be so easy to get dominant possession and territory over in the first half in the way the previous oppositions have been.  

Wasn't Daly pretty poor on the wing though? I seem to remember his defence being suspect and him not being secure under high balls, that's not what you want against Ireland!

The basic problem, at least for me, is there are no combinations of players for the back line outside the halfbacks, to set the world alight. Or even knock a hole or two in the opposition:
Steward, at least, we agree is still learning his craft but has generally mastered the basics of catching kicks in traffic, and whether he starts is not a debate. I wouldn't say that for Daly, Malins, et al. In fact, I think I am done with Malins. Still don't understand why Nowell spent the whole Wales game running sideways. Marchant was pretty mediocre in his last outing. Daly is frustrating because it always seems to me the talent is there, but then, no. Slade is like a slightly better Daly.

Holy crow, I'm really bitter this evening, ain't I?

yappysnap wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Frustrated with Daly who again has failed to impress in yet another position, he was good as a wing which in theory he was the least suited to. Given Slade will have to keep covering 12 Id like to see Marchant at 13 and Daly pushed out to the wing over Malins or Nowell. Radwan could come in as a wildcard, but that doesnt seem likely given hes not been making the shortlists let alone 23.

Ireland wont be so easy to get dominant possession and territory over in the first half in the way the previous oppositions have been.  

Wasn't Daly pretty poor on the wing though? I seem to remember his defence being suspect and him not being secure under high balls, that's not what you want against Ireland!

Daly always plays at his best on the wing for me. He's decent under the high ball (not FB decent), has a turn of pace...and his defence is good when he's not facing big runners. He's basically a 13.5.......but better than Malins and quicker than Nowell. I'm pretty sure he has quite a few games on the wing for the Lions, maybe 3?

Home advantage is a big plus but Ireland have to be favourites. England couldn't really get through the Welsh defence and I can't see Ireland being any easier plus the attacking threat of Ireland is greater I'd say especially through their forwards. Slade and Daly just didn't cut it on Saturday so we're now back to age old question of who will be at 12 and 13. I'll add I wasn't impressed with Nowell either, missed several tackles to let Cuthbert get away and didn't offer much. Malins was OK but doesn't have that out and out pace for a wing. Eng forwards were OK I thought with Dombrandt, Genge and Itoje having good games. Ewels still not good enough.
So, sort out centres and wings and we'll be fine....

ps the dislike button is one on the right

Reports coming in from not very reliable sources that England are doing a Wales and calling up big Joe C after a brief, if very successful, cameo this weekend.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Reports coming in from not very reliable sources that England are doing a Wales and calling up big Joe C after a brief, if very successful, cameo this weekend.

Well England need a change on the wing as well as centres and I think Joe C should be given a shot again at some stage but he can't be ready for Int rugby yet. His defence anyway can be suspect so not sure he's answer for Ireland game. Radwen, OHC maybe better option at present but seemingly Jones not convinced on those. What is needed most of all is a solid 12 so Slade can go to 13. Given his form last few years never thought I'd say this but England missing Farrell. If he was fit I'd put him at 12 assuming Manu still out.
Anyway, it's Eddie so whatever anyone thinks should happen it'll be different.

You can understand everyone throwing darts at pics of players and calling for their inclusion! Cokanasiga even on 1 leg would be better than what Malins and Nowell on this form can produce. It also offers a big ball carrier but that's if the ball managers to make its way beyond Slade. Those quotes from Jones still suggest he's happy with his centres and wings, but we've had them before on Daly as full back.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Wales did well against Ireland in the scrum I thought and against England....the ref never really had a clue what was going on.

Going from that, you'd expect it to be a pretty tight affair.

The less said about the Welsh lineout perhaps the better, Ireland will be much stronger here.

See you say that but according to the stats both sides lost 2 line outs each.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Reports coming in from not very reliable sources that England are doing a Wales and calling up big Joe C after a brief, if very successful, cameo this weekend.

Big difference between calling him up and playing him. Would be good to see him back though. Proper winger with some decent pace and real power

lostinwales wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Reports coming in from not very reliable sources that England are doing a Wales and calling up big Joe C after a brief, if very successful, cameo this weekend.

Big difference between calling him up and playing him. Would be good to see him back though. Proper winger with some decent pace and real power

Yep. Radwen, OHC and others been called up and never played. Eddies favourites like Daly always deemed better.

Oakdene wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Wales did well against Ireland in the scrum I thought and against England....the ref never really had a clue what was going on.

Going from that, you'd expect it to be a pretty tight affair.

The less said about the Welsh lineout perhaps the better, Ireland will be much stronger here.

See you say that but according to the stats both sides lost 2 line outs each.

I don't think stats are required to see that Wales struggled in the lineout, it was quite clear. Dombrandt may back me up here....

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Wales did well against Ireland in the scrum I thought and against England....the ref never really had a clue what was going on.

Going from that, you'd expect it to be a pretty tight affair.

The less said about the Welsh lineout perhaps the better, Ireland will be much stronger here.

See you say that but according to the stats both sides lost 2 line outs each.

I don't think stats are required to see that Wales struggled in the lineout, it was quite clear. Dombrandt may back me up here....

Ah yes, when England closed the line in the lineout & bumped our jumper to prevent him being lifted...silly me....

Oakdene wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Wales did well against Ireland in the scrum I thought and against England....the ref never really had a clue what was going on.

Going from that, you'd expect it to be a pretty tight affair.

The less said about the Welsh lineout perhaps the better, Ireland will be much stronger here.

See you say that but according to the stats both sides lost 2 line outs each.

I don't think stats are required to see that Wales struggled in the lineout, it was quite clear. Dombrandt may back me up here....

Ah yes, when England closed the line in the lineout & bumped our jumper to prevent him being lifted...silly me....

So I take it you thought Wales went well in the line out and that it's stronger than the Irish?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Wales did well against Ireland in the scrum I thought and against England....the ref never really had a clue what was going on.

Going from that, you'd expect it to be a pretty tight affair.

The less said about the Welsh lineout perhaps the better, Ireland will be much stronger here.

See you say that but according to the stats both sides lost 2 line outs each.

I don't think stats are required to see that Wales struggled in the lineout, it was quite clear. Dombrandt may back me up here....

Ah yes, when England closed the line in the lineout & bumped our jumper to prevent him being lifted...silly me....

So I take it you thought Wales went well in the line out and that it's stronger than the Irish?

I didn't say that ours was stronger that the Irish lineout, what I said was that both England & Wales lost 2 lineouts each & that the one which led to your try shouldn't have stood.

So you thought the Welsh lineout went well? An interesting take on things.....

I think it's been steadily improving, but Elias isn't anything better than third or fourth choice. Dewi Lake already looks better than him. Ken Owens and Sam Parry should also be back in the mix when available.

Oakdene wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Wales did well against Ireland in the scrum I thought and against England....the ref never really had a clue what was going on.

Going from that, you'd expect it to be a pretty tight affair.

The less said about the Welsh lineout perhaps the better, Ireland will be much stronger here.

See you say that but according to the stats both sides lost 2 line outs each.

I don't think stats are required to see that Wales struggled in the lineout, it was quite clear. Dombrandt may back me up here....

Ah yes, when England closed the line in the lineout & bumped our jumper to prevent him being lifted...silly me....

They were just trying to help the officials by straightening the lineout.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Reports coming in from not very reliable sources that England are doing a Wales and calling up big Joe C after a brief, if very successful, cameo this weekend.

I can see why. The pedestrian Eng (v Wal) line is going to struggle to challenge for the RWC (or the 6N).

Randall Raw, bit early to tell
Smith Pretty good but still learning this level

Slade Bit average
Daly A little less than average

Malins See Daly
Nowell Has been excellent, not so much at the moment (too many injuries?)
Steward Pretty good

A few potential stars, but really too much mediocrity at present. Could improve a bit if Watson & May ever return.

And that's not taking into account the fairly average level of England's LO and scrum (or God forbid the general munching the SA pack will give ours).

Ireland will win this. Should beat France though.

Well I pretty much agree with your player assessments, I also think Ireland favourites but I disagree that England will beat France. Think they'd struggle at Twickenham but in Paris very unlikely given how strong France are and they're playing best rugby by far out of all 6N teams.

However, in a one-off game ya never know.