Premiership weekend of 1-3 April

Twas an interesting weekend starting with the Gloucester Worcester match being cancelled due to Covid (let's not forget it's still here) and injuries.  Didn't expect a draw between Sale and Bath.  I did think Wasps and Falcons would be close and it was.  Sarries just edged a win over Bristol, who seem to be improving.  But Farrell in the news in his first game back with a pen which could have been yellow, for a no-arms and then the leaving for an HIA.

But the biggie for me was Saints putting on a close to complete performance against a good LI team.  From about the 15 minute mark onward they dominated play in a way I haven't seen for quite a while, perhaps ever under the Boyd regime.  LI dominated early and was ahead 8-0 when Saints started to play.  The key was avoiding that frantic, hyper up-tempo constant offload style, but instead playing a quick, strong, fundamentally sound game, playing to their strengths.  Winning most of the collisions, moving the ball around, and actually taking their chances.  And then not until garbaage time did LI score again.  And as I said, this wasn't against Worcester.  

Was great to see Rib-eye abd Api looking powerful in the second row, and Api had a couple of great breaks which I never would have predicted, the back row elite, Lawes, Ludlum, and Augustus, the halfbacks in sync, Dingwall powerful and skillful at 12 (Eddie you reading this?), Collins and Skosan on the wings and the imperious Furby at the back.  

So excited, and for the first time in years Saints looked like a real team and, at least for one day and against a good team, were thoroughly enjoyable to watch.

I haven't seen the match but from what I've read it sounds like a combination of Saints playing one of their best games and Irish one of their worst. Possibly a couple of contentious points from Mr Barnes but as mentioned haven't seen them myself so could be some 'one-eyed' comments ...

I also think Irish massively missed Coleman, Hepetema and Big Al ...

Bit confused with the penalty against Steward?

I think Pearce was saying he overran and jumped into the other player - 50:50 for me ...

Heaf wrote:I think Pearce was saying he overran and jumped into the other player - 50:50 for me ...

Had the Exeter player not overrun the kick and blocked Steward I'd agree with Pearce. As it stands he stuffed that one up. Otherwise Pearce has been pretty good though to be fair.

Not sure how the TMO missed the deliberate knock on by O'Flaherty after about five minutes either. That was really poor.

Heaf wrote:I think Pearce was saying he overran and jumped into the other player - 50:50 for me ...

Ah I see, I thought Whitten (think that's who it was) didn't make an attempt to jump to gather the ball. 50/50 I agree.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Heaf wrote:I think Pearce was saying he overran and jumped into the other player - 50:50 for me ...

Had the Exeter player not overrun the kick and blocked Steward I'd agree with Pearce. As it stands he stuffed that one up. Otherwise Pearce has been pretty good though to be fair.

Not sure how the TMO missed the deliberate knock on by O'Flaherty after about five minutes either. That was really poor.

Thought the turnover where we got marched back 10 meters was questionable. The angle he was at it was clear he wasn't supporting his bodyweight

I think Tigers have got this comfortably, unless Chiefs massively up their game.

Well that one was gift-wrapped with a nice bow on top ...

First win away at Chiefs for a while. Held onto it at the end but it was a close thing. The last defensive set with Chiefs going 20 phases starting just outside their 22 and finishing having to dot down over the tryline, incredible defence.

Yep Chiefs left it too late to start playing

Annoyingly I was convinced I'd gone Tigers by 1 on Superbru but somehow I actually had Chiefs by one - should have gone to SpecSavers ...

Good win, cheifs only started playing in the last 30. If they played like that throughout the game it could well have been a different result.

Qualified for the play offs then.

Think we will need another gear or two to beat the likes of Sarries.

On a side note, the Nandolo yellow. Pearce mentioned he wasn't in a position to regather. He would have been if he wasn't taken out by Slade? Do they not take that into account?

I see Tigers ahead of Sarries - they got really lucky yesterday against Bristol ...

Heaf wrote:I see Tigers ahead of Sarries - they got really lucky yesterday against Bristol ...

Didn't see the game, a bit if rust from Farrell? Need game time to get his shoulders back into it.

No he managed to get a shoulder in just fine

nathan wrote:

Heaf wrote:I see Tigers ahead of Sarries - they got really lucky yesterday against Bristol ...

Didn't see the game, a bit if rust from Farrell? Need game time to get his shoulders back into it.

Like Genge then.

Tigers qualified with four games remaining. Those heading to WR might be in for a tough time, those welcoming the Tigers might find a more youthful line up arriving.

nathan wrote:On a side note, the Nandolo yellow. Pearce mentioned he wasn't in a position to regather. He would have been if he wasn't taken out by Slade? Do they not take that into account?

Apparently not. They also didn't check it actually went forward and I'm not sure it did. 

I'm still unsure how they can spend that long checking that one but miss the O'Flaherty one after five mins which was as obvious as you like. Mind you Pearce initially just said the Vermulen was a knock until he got shown the replays. Vermulen with his head in hands made that one a bit too obvious to miss.

Joe Heyes 23 tackles, none missed, no penalties conceded but was part of the Tigers front row that got three penalties out of the Chiefs scrum. Played for 72 mins, that's a shift.

Dan Kelly with 25 tackles. Man of the match Chessum weighed in with 25 tackles as well.

Kevin Sinfield take a bow his defensive organisation has been massive for Tigers this season.

nathan wrote:On a side note, the Nandolo yellow. Pearce mentioned he wasn't in a position to regather. He would have been if he wasn't taken out by Slade? Do they not take that into account?

I found that very odd. If he had not been tackled he would have caught the ball.

If the ref believed Nandolo could not catch the ball then he is saying in effect he was not in possession of the ball in which case he should have penalised Slade for tackling Nandolo without the ball. That foul play happened before the ball hit the ground which is the point at which Nandolo’s knock on became a knock on or in the ref’s view a deliberate knock on.

Talking of refs apparently Mr Barnes made a couple of large blunders to the detriment of Irish at the weekend ...

Quick tap taken close to the line and a Saints player tackled the ball carrier within a couple of metres having not retreated behind the line, ultimately leading to the ball being held up over the line and a goal-line dropout - should have been a yellow card and possible PT.  He refused to use the TMO when challenged claiming it wasn't allowed, but how can that be when they use the TMO to check for deliberate knock-ons stopping try-scoring opportunities or clean breaks as per the above post? Surely it's the same thing - a deliberate act to stop a break or score?

He also played on when a Saints player tripped an Irish player up with a slide tackle - another possible pen and yellow let go.  I have to admit I've not seen the replays but there seems to be a consensus on different boards on at least the first point. Ironic when it seems many Saints fans still can't abide Mr B

You know the games are on the Prem website Heaf, so you can watch them and make up your own mind.

For me, the non call of not ten was a terrible call. I think Barnes knew he'd got it wrong afterwards from the ref mic, but didn't have the mechanism to reverse or look at it. We should have been a man up and have had the PT, but instead had to line up for a goal line dropout.

But then I thought Simmons was lucky not to get a red.

Didn't see the trip. Would take a look if anyone posts the time, but not re-watching that horror show to try and find it. Ultimately it doesn't matter now.

Exiledinborders wrote:

nathan wrote:On a side note, the Nandolo yellow. Pearce mentioned he wasn't in a position to regather. He would have been if he wasn't taken out by Slade? Do they not take that into account?

I found that very odd. If he had not been tackled he would have caught the ball.

If the ref believed Nandolo could not catch the ball then he is saying in effect he was not in possession of the ball in which case he should have penalised Slade for tackling Nandolo without the ball. That foul play happened before the ball hit the ground which is the point at which Nandolo’s knock on became a knock on or in the ref’s view a deliberate knock on.

Those are the rules though, if you don't reclaim the ball after an intercept it's deemed a deliberate knock on. And if a line break was going to happen it's then a yellow. Or a pen try if its deemed a probable try scoring opportunity.

Margin_Walker wrote:You know the games are on the Prem website Heaf, so you can watch them and make up your own mind.

For me, the non call of not ten was a terrible call. I think Barnes knew he'd got it wrong afterwards from the ref mic, but didn't have the mechanism to reverse or look at it. We should have been a man up and have had the PT, but instead had to line up for a goal line dropout.

But then I thought Simmons was lucky not to get a red.

Didn't see the trip. Would take a look if anyone posts the time, but not re-watching that horror show to try and find it. Ultimately it doesn't matter now.

Thanks MW - might take a look if I can bear it ... I still don't understand why it's OK to use the TMO to look for a deliberate knock-on but not a 'not 10' - can't see any difference really. Both are deliberate acts to stop a line break or try scoring opportunity.

Sale deducted 5 points for fielding an ineligible player on their bench vs Wasps.

Sale deducted 5 points for fielding an ineligible player on their bench vs Wasps.

Sheesh Alex Gives can't get a break. Couldn't get into the Bristol side and when he gets a chance at new club Sale it results in a five point deduction 

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

nathan wrote:On a side note, the Nandolo yellow. Pearce mentioned he wasn't in a position to regather. He would have been if he wasn't taken out by Slade? Do they not take that into account?

I found that very odd. If he had not been tackled he would have caught the ball.

If the ref believed Nandolo could not catch the ball then he is saying in effect he was not in possession of the ball in which case he should have penalised Slade for tackling Nandolo without the ball. That foul play happened before the ball hit the ground which is the point at which Nandolo’s knock on became a knock on or in the ref’s view a deliberate knock on.

Those are the rules though, if you don't reclaim the ball after an intercept it's deemed a deliberate knock on. And if a line break was going to happen it's then a yellow. Or a pen try if its deemed a probable try scoring opportunity.

But surely there is mitigation if you are taken out?

Don't believe so. Similar although not exact situation to Russell's yellow card in the 6 nations.

nathan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

nathan wrote:On a side note, the Nandolo yellow. Pearce mentioned he wasn't in a position to regather. He would have been if he wasn't taken out by Slade? Do they not take that into account?

I found that very odd. If he had not been tackled he would have caught the ball.

If the ref believed Nandolo could not catch the ball then he is saying in effect he was not in possession of the ball in which case he should have penalised Slade for tackling Nandolo without the ball. That foul play happened before the ball hit the ground which is the point at which Nandolo’s knock on became a knock on or in the ref’s view a deliberate knock on.

Those are the rules though, if you don't reclaim the ball after an intercept it's deemed a deliberate knock on. And if a line break was going to happen it's then a yellow. Or a pen try if its deemed a probable try scoring opportunity.

But surely there is mitigation if you are taken out?

You'd like to think so, wouldn't you? I didn't see the incident, but in general refs regard a player who has touched the ball and is trying to get it under control as fair game for a tackler. If you've allowed the tackle, then by definition the player is making a clear attempt to claim the ball, so it would seem very harsh to give more than a knock on.

I guess you could reason that the initial attempt at the catch was never likely to come off, but did create a justification for another player to make the tackle.

Probably as you say Poorfour as it would be asking the tackler a bit much to make a decision on whether the other player is likely to catch it or not before committing to the tackle ...

Dickson is an awful ref. Little behind in the Bristol match but he's talking about a red card being a penalty only and then when prompted by the tmo gives a yellow. Rubbish.

Dickson is certainly not afraid to make decisions.  It's just some of them are a tick bizarre.

Saints looking pretty good again, but Bristol is certainly helping with that.

By the way I renamed the thread for this weekend's action

It's a game where defending has been optional!

No 7&1/2 wrote:Dickson is an awful ref. Little behind in the Bristol match but he's talking about a red card being a penalty only and then when prompted by the tmo gives a yellow. Rubbish.

Think there was another earlier as well where he was going pen only before the TMO challenged him .... also would like to see the Biggar one again as I'm not sure if that was just a pen either ...

Heaf wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Dickson is an awful ref. Little behind in the Bristol match but he's talking about a red card being a penalty only and then when prompted by the tmo gives a yellow. Rubbish.

Think there was another earlier as well where he was going pen only before the TMO challenged him .... also would like to see the Biggar one again as I'm not sure if that was just a pen either ...

Yeah. Probably does ride up off the ball. But still clearly high and with force. Yellow for me. Didn't like his attitude as a player *scrum half after all, don't like his attitude as a ref.

Finally we win!!!

And feck me a try scoring bonus point....5 tries!! Unreal..

GeordieFalcon wrote:Finally we win!!!

And feck me a try scoring bonus point....5 tries!! Unreal..

Get Dean a new contract after that?

Falcons really took Worcester to task, 6 tries away from home with the home team only just getting into double figures is no mean feat. Maybe with a bit of hardening ground to get that backline running on a couple more TBPs before the end of the season might see them jump up the league a little.

Let's not go that far about Dean's contract Sam.....

Sadly Wuss fans blaming illness, covid, how poor they were, lotterally everything except wexmight have actually played OK.

I keep saying we gave a decent squad its the coaching and tactics etc.

That falls squarely at Dean and his team. He's got more academy lads showing up now...Young Freddie Lockwood was probably MOTM at 8 and young Basham who we signed from LI a few seasons back is really stepping up at 6.

We need to play a more high tempo attacking game...we have the players for it...

GeordieFalcon wrote:Let's not go that far about Dean's contract Sam.....

Sadly Wuss fans blaming illness, covid, how poor they were, lotterally everything except wexmight have actually played OK.

I keep saying we gave a decent squad its the coaching and tactics etc.

That falls squarely at Dean and his team. He's got more academy lads showing up now...Young Freddie Lockwood was probably MOTM at 8 and young Basham who we signed from LI a few seasons back is really stepping up at 6.

We need to play a more high tempo attacking game...we have the players for it...

Geordie, we all want Falcons to keep Dean Richards. We really do! No offense....

I'm with you GF, get rid of Deano.

Smith pulling the strings beautifully.......so good.

Bad first half for Irish.

8. Dombrandt
9. Care
10. Smith

How is this not the England spine?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:8. Dombrandt
9. Care
10. Smith

How is this not the England spine?

Nearly is. I'd personally have Mitchell in there. Tizard was very good again today, Saracens have got themselves a steal there.

Tizards an interesting one isn't he.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:8. Dombrandt
9. Care
10. Smith

How is this not the England spine?

In the game where Care equalled the most number of yellow cards in a season? I think his best days and England chances are well behind him. I'd like to see Mitchell get a go as well or the return of Quirke.

Tizard looks increasingly handy, really a coming of age season for him. Saracens have done well to get him onboard for next season, he could combine well with Itoje.