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Prem Playoffs - double Derby Weekender.

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mikey_dragon
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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

STARTING XV
15 Freddie Steward [54]
14 Harry Potter [39]
13 Matías Moroni [34]
12 Dan Kelly [42]
11 Guy Porter [43]
10 George Ford [127]
9 Ben Youngs [280]
1 Ellis Genge (c) [109]
2 Julián Montoya [25]
3 Dan Cole [288]
4 Harry Wells [154]
5 Calum Green [89]
6 Hanro Liebenberg (vc) [57]
7 Tommy Reffell [76]
8 Jasper Wiese [43]

REPLACEMENTS
16 Charlie Clare [50]
17 Nephi Leatigaga [66]
18 Joe Heyes [99]
19 Ollie Chessum [29]
20 George Martin [37]
21 Jack van Poortvliet [47]
22 Freddie Burns [101]
23 Nemani Nadolo [36]

NORTHAMPTON SAINTS XV: 15 Tommy Freeman, 14 Matt Proctor, 13 Fraser Dingwall, 12 Rory Hutchinson, 11 Courtnall Skosan, 10 Dan Biggar, 9 Alex Mitchell; 1 Emmanuel Iyogun, 2 Sam Matavesi, 3 Ehren Painter, 4 Alex Coles, 5 Api Ratuniyarawa, 6 Courtney Lawes, 7 Lewis Ludlam (c), 8 Juarno Augustus

Replacements: 16 Mike Haywood, 17 Alex Waller, 18 Oisín Heffernan, 19 David Ribbans, 20 Aaron Hinkley, 21 Tom James, 22 James Grayson, 23 Piers Francis

No Ashton and no Furbank the surprise selections/injuries. Steward Vs Freeman tees up a great match up between the young 15s.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:20 pm

If the wind is as bad as is suggested then 3 points could be demoralising.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:24 pm

Northampton desperately need something to show from this half.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:26 pm

Bit of a nasty knock that.

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Post by Heaf Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:27 pm

Forward pass by Biggar surely?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:27 pm

Could be red.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:28 pm

Bit lucky there as he's never actually using his arms surely?

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Post by Heaf Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:32 pm

Looked like maybe he was trying to wrap but the falling player made him miss?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:44 pm

May well be. Didn't take it I to account in the conversation though, straight to mitigation.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:49 pm

Blown another try there.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:56 pm

That looks a painful fall for Steward.

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Post by Geordie Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:57 pm

Oooh I hope rhats not Freddies ACL or something

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Post by Geordie Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:58 pm

Ah he seems ok

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Post by Heaf Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:59 pm

Nice by Ford

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:00 pm

Heaf wrote:Nice by Ford
And not by Mitchell.

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Post by Heaf Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:02 pm

Skosan misses another chance ...

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Post by Heaf Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:03 pm

Followed by a bad miss - unless it's the wind ...

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Post by Heaf Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:03 pm

Saints still looking more dangerous to me though ...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:09 pm

But Leiceater just play percentages and look for mistakes. They shouldn't really be in this game by now but they've hung on and pressure does weird things.

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Post by Heaf Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:11 pm

Yep - still anyone's game

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:12 pm

That's not a yellow.

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Post by Heaf Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:14 pm

Wow

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:18 pm

Got to feel for Northampton reallt don't deserve this. But you've got to take your chances.

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Post by Heaf Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:20 pm

Fat lady is still in the dressing room though

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Post by bsando Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:21 pm

Something fishy went on in the ruck before the last Leicester try

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:22 pm

bsando wrote:Something fishy went on in the ruck before the last Leicester try
Thought that too. No complaints by Northampton though.

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Post by bsando Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:24 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
bsando wrote:Something fishy went on in the ruck before the last Leicester try
Thought that too. No complaints by Northampton though.

true may have just spat out the side, couldn't see on tv

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:29 pm

Well that's it surely. Can't help but feel Saracens will be unconcerned.

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Post by Heaf Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:30 pm

Full marks to Ford there

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Post by Geordie Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:35 pm

Sam who have Tigers signed to replace Ford....he's got MASSIVE shoes to fill!!

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Post by Geordie Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:35 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well that's it surely. Can't help but feel Saracens will be unconcerned.

You must have read my mind...I was thinking exactly the same

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Post by bsando Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:37 pm

Ford did very well to turn the tide in their favour but Northampton also made a few howlers. Good game! Good luck tigers fans

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Post by Heaf Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:37 pm

Big improvement needed for Tigers to have a chance next week ...

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Post by king_carlos Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:39 pm

A very average performance to win a pretty average semi to be honest.

Tigers will need to be incomparably better next week to have a chance.

Since Kelly has been injured the attack hasn't looked anywhere near the same. That's exacerbated by Nadolo riding the bench as he's looked less fit and been out of place defensively at times in the second half of the season.

Our all important lineout has struggled against international second rows before. Itoje and Isiekwe will put on a lot of pressure.

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Post by king_carlos Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:42 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Sam who have Tigers signed to replace Ford....he's got MASSIVE shoes to fill!!

Handre Pollard will fit Borthwick's game plan perfectly but is unlikely to be available as much as Ford has been. Ford has a very good injury record and was then available during some international windows this season. 23 starts so far this season. Very few international fly-halves are available for that much club rugby. He'll be a massive loss.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:18 pm

I don't have a voice left. Played out pretty much as I thought. Saints threw the full kitchen sink in the first half and then faded badly in the second. Looked like Carley was pretty generous at scrum time with the Saints props hitting the deck often but being allowed to play on anyway.

Tigers didn't play particularly well in attack, losing Kelly early doors was a massive blow though Burns had a great game.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:38 pm

Saints were good for large parts of the game, but far less clinical than Tigers. Saints can’t be too happy with Skosan…

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:29 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Saints were good for large parts of the game, but far less clinical than Tigers. Saints can’t be too happy with Skosan…

He had an absolute shocker, seemed to choke on the occasion. Boyd might be wishing he'd take one of the two available wingers with him on the bench instead of Francis so he could have made a change.

Saints tend to look very good for the first 50 mins. They play with such a high intensity it's difficult to sustain. They only scored 6 points outside the Porter yellow card period.

Tigers will have to hit their straps to beat Sarries. I felt we were coasting a bit Vs Saints didn't get out the middle gears.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:32 am

king_carlos wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Sam who have Tigers signed to replace Ford....he's got MASSIVE shoes to fill!!

Handre Pollard will fit Borthwick's game plan perfectly but is unlikely to be available as much as Ford has been. Ford has a very good injury record and was then available during some international windows this season. 23 starts so far this season. Very few international fly-halves are available for that much club rugby. He'll be a massive loss.

I'm not so worried about Pollard's availability whilst we have Burns able to drop in at 10. He did a cracking job for the two months Ford was off with England during the 6N.

Pollard is an interesting one, he is one of the few players who has a better kicking game than Ford. He's more physical and direct as well which will suit us but he's going to have to bring some more attacking flair than he's known for to the side to be a success. Handily he can drop into 12 easily which would allow Burns at 10 and for them the interchange should we need it.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:32 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Saints were good for large parts of the game, but far less clinical than Tigers. Saints can’t be too happy with Skosan…

He had an absolute shocker, seemed to choke on the occasion. Boyd might be wishing he'd take one of the two available wingers with him on the bench instead of Francis so he could have made a change.

Saints tend to look very good for the first 50 mins. They play with such a high intensity it's difficult to sustain. They only scored 6 points outside the Porter yellow card period.

Tigers will have to hit their straps to beat Sarries. I felt we were coasting a bit Vs Saints didn't get out the middle gears.
Can't really agree with the coasting point. Northampton were just better. Without Skosan having a game to forget they really would have been out of sight. You take the luck when it comes of course.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:11 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Saints were good for large parts of the game, but far less clinical than Tigers. Saints can’t be too happy with Skosan…

He had an absolute shocker, seemed to choke on the occasion. Boyd might be wishing he'd take one of the two available wingers with him on the bench instead of Francis so he could have made a change.

Saints tend to look very good for the first 50 mins. They play with such a high intensity it's difficult to sustain. They only scored 6 points outside the Porter yellow card period.

Tigers will have to hit their straps to beat Sarries. I felt we were coasting a bit Vs Saints didn't get out the middle gears.
Can't really agree with the coasting point. Northampton were just better. Without Skosan having a game to forget they really would have been out of sight. You take the luck when it comes of course.

Not really, we know Saints would be exceptional for 50 mins and then start falling away which is exactly what happened. It certainly helped Skosan managed to fudge an easy catch and then Porter made a great cover tackle on him but Tigers kicked at goal later in the game when the momentum was well with us we could have easily gone to the corner with and looked for more points if we needed them.

Nadolo was mainly rested for next week as well. If we'd need more impact in that second half we had it waiting on the bench. As it was Genge and Weise were making more metres with every carry as the game wore on.

Saints are a 50 minute team. When Mitchell tires they basically stop functioning. Look at last week's game Vs Falcons. Saints were amazing in the first half but second half looked like an astonishing comeback until Robinson got sent off and Saints eased away. The intensity of Saints attack is quite brilliant but it's simply not sustainable.

There's no hiding from Tigers needing to be a lot better for next week Vs Sarries though.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:35 am

Think this is a bit rewriting history. Better side for much of the game not just first 50.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Jun 12, 2022 12:13 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Think this is a bit rewriting history. Better side for much of the game not just first 50.

After the break Saints only looked threatening whilst Tigers were down to 14. After that they didn't have much about them or that was how it seemed stood in the Crumbie. The Saints fans next to me got quieter and grumpier as the second half progressed, the shanter of the first half was fizzling out.

I'll get chance to watch the game back as perceptions can be different in the ground compared to TV especially depending what the commentators focus on.

Considering the 'better team' scored a total of 6 points outside of the sin bin period and finished nearly two converted tries down losing 2-1 on tries scored. Borthwick's tactics defence heavy tactics worked. He does like to soak it up in the first half, work the opposition pack and then back Tigers fitness and bench to turn the screw in the second half. Polar opposite to Saints. I do worry it won't work particularly well Vs Sarries and it didn't Vs Leinster.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun Jun 12, 2022 12:19 pm

Not surprised they got grumpier they were losing down to their winger having a shocker!

Perhaps you'll get a fairer impression from the TV but frankly Borthwicks tactics didn't really work and its down to a winger pretty much messing up 4 genuinely easy (at this level) finishes. Northampton would have been worthy of winning that game by 20 points honestly

I have said when you're having a bad day you just try to hang in there and Leicester did that and took a couple of good tries themselves.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:51 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not surprised they got grumpier they were losing down to their winger having a shocker!

Perhaps you'll get a fairer impression from the TV but frankly Borthwicks tactics didn't really work and its down to a winger pretty much messing up 4 genuinely easy (at this level) finishes. Northampton would have been worthy of winning that game by 20 points honestly

I have said when you're having a bad day you just try to hang in there and Leicester did that and took a couple of good tries themselves.

Four is optimistic. They were also in a short space of time. If one had been scored the other chances weren't going to definitely present themselves. Skosan would have needed to score two just to put Saints within touching distance and the lead depending on conversion so 20 point win is laughable quite frankly.

We've played this way for most of the season and only lost four league games. It isn't pretty but it works because few teams can keep the intensity at Tigers levels for 80 mins. That being said the loss of Kelly after two minutes was a body blow, the team has been lacking something, particularly in attack, whilst he's been out injured. A fit Kelly really gives us a focal point in attack and that reshuffle so early in the game won't have helped out fluency. His inclusion was a gamble worth taking though.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:04 pm

Well quite. Change 1 small instance of a game and the whole thing changes. I'm really not over egging how much better they were though.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Jun 12, 2022 3:39 pm

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/preview/match-report-leicester-tigers-27-14-northampton-saints/#statistics

And yet Tigers had more territory, possession, clean breaks, defenders beaten, offloads and a better tackle success rate.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun Jun 12, 2022 3:52 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:https://www.premiershiprugby.com/preview/match-report-leicester-tigers-27-14-northampton-saints/#statistics

And yet Tigers had more territory, possession, clean breaks, defenders beaten, offloads and a better tackle success rate.
Think thats where you get the Mark Twain quote from.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:26 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:https://www.premiershiprugby.com/preview/match-report-leicester-tigers-27-14-northampton-saints/#statistics

And yet Tigers had more territory, possession, clean breaks, defenders beaten, offloads and a better tackle success rate.
Think thats where you get the Mark Twain quote from.

It's because Tigers tend to do it in a not very flashy way. Saints being the opposite, their style is easier on the eye

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Post by Geordie Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:57 pm

Well its ifs and buts...

Tigers weren't at their best...Saints had chances...but you have to take them. They didn't...end of.

Tigers know they have to up their game for next week.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:53 pm

Exactly. Skosan was awful and thus Leicester won.

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