England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down

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Duty281 wrote:What do we think of the future of ODI cricket as a whole, because its demise is once again being discussed?

Wasim Akram thinks ODI cricket should be put out of its misery; Mark Ramprakash says that Stokes' ODI retirement could be the beginning of the end for ODI cricket; but Ravi Shastri says there should be fewer T20Is.

My view is that ODI cricket should stay, and it's T20i cricket that should be abolished. T20 should remain franchise/domestic only. No need for a T20 World Cup when the IPL and such exists. If T20i cricket does stay, I think there should be no three format players, only two formats maximum. I'd be very disappointed if 50-over cricket died on an international basis.  

No format will die as long as they are generating revenues.
And much as I used to call them Meaningless-Masala-ODIs, these games as well as meaningless T20Is generate more revenue then tests.
Instead of 5 to 7 ODIs per series earlier...now limited over series comprise of 3+3.
Test Matches, "The Premium Form" of the game per purists ( including me) is still the commercially subsidized format of the game.
Now the defeats in ODIs/T20Is don't hurt as much, nor are wins remembered for long, only World Cups stay in memory.
But the international games generate high viewership rating & expensive advertisements (atleast on Indian TV)

As I wrote on the Ind-WI thread, the Indians have stopped complaining about too much cricket.
BCCI has found peace by putting out as many as 2 and a half to 3 squads now...call them Senior (or premium) and A and B squads for international games.
Ensuring prime stars get plenty of rest / rotation......and the pool of contracted players gets bigger and everyone gets full contracted fee, playing lesser games
Recently we have seen 2 Indian series running concurrently and twice VVSL has been India's national coach for a series when Dravid was with another Indian squad at the same time in another series.

If a marquee player Stokes was under BCCI management.....BCCI would have NEVER let him retire, would have done a sweet deal with him guaranteeing his workload across formats and asking him to appear for a very limited number of ODIs and T20Is and also letting him skip B grade test series.

No format will die since even these meaningless ODI&T20Is are indeed generating revenues, that are essential to subsidize tests and pump into FC, junior and women cricket development

Robinson's first test in seven months. Main pressure for him is to stay fit throughout it!

This could be Broad's last test. Or maybe his penultimate one. Probably foolish to write him off, but he's had a somewhat difficult summer with 18 wickets @ nearly 36 and his economy near 3.5. He's unlikely to go on the tour of Pakistan, he nearly retired after being stupidly dropped for the West Indies, and this summer could be the farewell, with TV broadcasting well suited to him in retirement. Always felt a bit of sympathy for Stuart Broad. His career statistics are amazing - 555 wickets @ 28.05 - but he's never been constantly centre stage because his career has fallen at the exact same time as Anderson. He's always been in Anderson's shadow in terms of media praise and attention.

Speaking of last tests, this really should be Crawley's last test, barring some divine Bairstow-esque intervention at the last. Lees and Foakes are also under pressure to deliver with bat in hand.

Weather looks good for the duration of the test, shouldn't be any rain.

Ollie Robinson 10.0 on SkyBet to take a 5fer in the first innings - bookies giving him a 10% chance of doing it, but he currently takes a 5fer 12% of the time in Tests and 15% in FC cricket. Don’t mind that.

Yeah I could see this being Broad's final series. A great career but those bowling stats aren't what they used to be, and the magic spells haven't been seen for quite a while. His batting has really declined to now be a comedy lower order hitter, which is a shame from where it was about 10 years ago

Sensible change for this match , I think. Potts will have plenty more chances... and hopefully Robinson will be fired up to justify his recall. As for Crawley we can but hope...

And I am not given to writing player's epitaphs so easily as some so am far from assuming this will be Broad's last ! He has been written off before , somewhat prematurely. Who knows what happens in a few months ? At the moment nearly all the younger alternatives are still in the sick bay

I am sure I heard the Sky commentators mention more than once about Broad having a career in comms when he hangs up the boots. Whether that just stemmed from his stints during the ODIs/T20s/Hundred or whether it was a heads up they have got… it certainly seemed quite pointed. But I’d never rule him out wanting to put Warner on toast for one more series next summer!

Should also add that South Africa will have extra motivation (possibly) because they're currently on course to make the WTC final. They likely need at least one more win from the final two tests to remain on course to join (probably) Australia in the final next year.

England will finish below everyone bar Bangladesh, it seems.

South Africa's team for tomorrow may see two spinners. Then again it may not as will England last long enough for two spinners to be viable?

Duty281 wrote:This could be Broad's last test. Or maybe his penultimate one. Probably foolish to write him off, but he's had a somewhat difficult summer with 18 wickets @ nearly 36 and his economy near 3.5. He's unlikely to go on the tour of Pakistan, he nearly retired after being stupidly dropped for the West Indies, and this summer could be the farewell, with TV broadcasting well suited to him in retirement. Always felt a bit of sympathy for Stuart Broad. His career statistics are amazing - 555 wickets @ 28.05 - but he's never been constantly centre stage because his career has fallen at the exact same time as Anderson. He's always been in Anderson's shadow in terms of media praise and attention.

At times I've actually felt that "Anderson and Broad" being grouped together and almost being referred to as symbiotic in recent years has sometimes clouded over the fact that Broad's record, whilst absolutely fantastic, does have far more holes in it that Andersons. There has been a similar response in recent years to the idea of Broad missing out as there is to Anderson missing out. Which I have found odd at times.

For all of Anderson being a home conditions bowler the most he averages in any country is 34.61 in South Africa. Not stunning but pretty darn good for a worst mark. Broad on the other hand averages nearly 62 in India, 47 in Sri Lanka, nearly 40 in Bangladesh. To Broad's credit his record in South Africa, where Anderson is weakest, has been incredible though with 45 wickets at just under 24 with a miserly economy. That's really the only place he's had Jimmy beat though.

Obviously Broad is an absolute England great but I have felt his bowling has looked less threatening this summer. Considering he's still basically guaranteed the new ball in usually good bowling conditions that isn't ideal. It's also worth noting that he averaged nearly 40 in 2021 - Jimmy averaged 21.74.

I hope he proves me wrong with one more knee pumping, crowd bouncing spell but it is feeling more like hope than expectation now.

king_carlos wrote:

Duty281 wrote:This could be Broad's last test. Or maybe his penultimate one. Probably foolish to write him off, but he's had a somewhat difficult summer with 18 wickets @ nearly 36 and his economy near 3.5. He's unlikely to go on the tour of Pakistan, he nearly retired after being stupidly dropped for the West Indies, and this summer could be the farewell, with TV broadcasting well suited to him in retirement. Always felt a bit of sympathy for Stuart Broad. His career statistics are amazing - 555 wickets @ 28.05 - but he's never been constantly centre stage because his career has fallen at the exact same time as Anderson. He's always been in Anderson's shadow in terms of media praise and attention.

At times I've actually felt that "Anderson and Broad" being grouped together and almost being referred to as symbiotic in recent years has sometimes clouded over the fact that Broad's record, whilst absolutely fantastic, does have far more holes in it that Andersons. There has been a similar response in recent years to the idea of Broad missing out as there is to Anderson missing out. Which I have found odd at times.

For all of Anderson being a home conditions bowler the most he averages in any country is 34.61 in South Africa. Not stunning but pretty darn good for a worst mark. Broad on the other hand averages nearly 62 in India, 47 in Sri Lanka, nearly 40 in Bangladesh. To Broad's credit his record in South Africa, where Anderson is weakest, has been incredible though with 45 wickets at just under 24 with a miserly economy. That's really the only place he's had Jimmy beat though.

Obviously Broad is an absolute England great but I have felt his bowling has looked less threatening this summer. Considering he's still basically guaranteed the new ball in usually good bowling conditions that isn't ideal. It's also worth noting that he averaged nearly 40 in 2021 - Jimmy averaged 21.74.

I hope he proves me wrong with one more knee pumping, crowd bouncing spell but it is feeling more like hope than expectation now.

Feels a touch harsh to pick at Broad's record in Bangladesh/Sri Lanka when he's played only 3 tests in Bang, and 4 in Sri Lanka, KC! (and one of those Sri Lanka tests was your classic mid-2000s Sri Lanka draw pitches) - and also Anderson somehow has never bowled in Bangladesh throughout his entire career (I guess we don't tour often, but still a bit of an anomaly).
India is really the only place you could say he's truly struggled - which is a touch strange, because he averages 22 in the UAE (fairly similar pitches!).

To Duty's point about him being "overshadowed" by Jimmy, which is understandable, it is a little interesting that arguably two of his most memorable performances (Trent Bridge in 2015, the whole summer/Ashes of 2019) came when Jimmy was out of the side due to injury. Probably just a total coincidence rather than anything deeper mind, but he has usually done very well at stepping up on the rare occasion Anderson hasn't been fit.

Think it's still a touch early to completely write him off - but do note these comments and whispers in the media, and as Duty said, due to the impending birth of his child he won't be going to Pakistan. Often there isn't smoke without fire! Still think he's got a year or two left in him, he was very good in the Ashes over last winter.
Also as Alfie says, no matter how many times both Anderson/Broad seem to get put into the stables for retirement, yet again they seem to be the only two who aren't constantly injured!

SA win the toss and bat first. Interesting call as many were speculating that it was a bowl-first wicket. SA have picked two spinners for this one but, even more surprisingly, it's not Ngidi missing out as many reckoned in this scenario, but Jansen. I wouldn't have dropped Jansen.

Duty281 wrote:SA win the toss and bat first. Interesting call as many were speculating that it was a bowl-first wicket. SA have picked two spinners for this one but, even more surprisingly, it's not Ngidi missing out as many reckoned in this scenario, but Jansen. I wouldn't have dropped Jansen.

Very bold team selection from SA! Maharaj at 7 is…something. Huge pressure on the batting to bat well on day 1, if they do then you’d figure Harmer will come into the game later as it does usually turn at OT

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Duty281 wrote:SA win the toss and bat first. Interesting call as many were speculating that it was a bowl-first wicket. SA have picked two spinners for this one but, even more surprisingly, it's not Ngidi missing out as many reckoned in this scenario, but Jansen. I wouldn't have dropped Jansen.

Very bold team selection from SA! Maharaj at 7 is…something. Huge pressure on the batting to bat well on day 1, if they do then you’d figure Harmer will come into the game later as it does usually turn at OT

Agree with Olly about Maharaj at 7. I would add though that Harmer is a decent and sensible number 8, capable of providing support to a main batsman or shepherding the tail.

Having decided to play two front line spinners, I well understand SA wanting to bat first and, more particularly, bowl last.

Btw, good job this Test is at Old Trafford and not the Oval or Lord's. Lashed down here through the night and much of this morning, only just stopping now.

Bit surprised at SA : two spinners - OK , maybe ; and so batting first ; but dropping Jansen ?

Interesting choice.

Robinson sharing new ball with Jimmy...makes sense.

I wouldn't have played two spinners on the basis that England's batting is so brittle the seamers could run through it. They may have leaned into the conditions too heavily. But we'll see. Certainly wouldn't have dropped Jansen. A bit of extra batting plus I rate him higher than Ngidi.

Robinson sharing the new ball, not Broad.

Well you could see that coming...Erwee had done well to play and miss several times already - was one with his name on it due.

The start England wanted.

Classic new ball bowling from Anderson. Several going away, then brings it back in to get the inside edge. Nice take from Foakes, too.

Four away from the tail.

Nice take by Foakes , by the way : had to change direction for the inside edge , but no mistake.

Petersen never looked at ease at Lord's so this will be a test for him.

Elgar is a cool customer...but he's living a bit dangerously here. Tough chance there for Stokes but on another day it might be two down by now.

Batting not easy. Not sure Crawley would still be in had England batted first

This guy Robinson is a real artist

Bl..dy hell ! Robinson oversteps and gives Elgar a reprieve : don't they ever learn ? ! !

He's probably on for a century now...

Waste of a fine catch from Pope too.

It was frustrating for Robinson, who has deserved a wicket, but Broad ensures it didn't cost too much. He's looking fired-up for this. Only 7 behind McGrath now.

Does look a bowling friendly day. If you pick two spinners you kinda have to bat first, but I'm not sure it was wise. SA have done well to only be two down after the first hour.

Ah well bowled Stuart Broad ...and a great catch YJB... Robinson will be relieved

Two ways of looking at that Elgar Innings : Lucky as ; or a great job to survive forty or so balls in tough conditions .

Petersen looks a lot better than at Lord's.

England's hour , I think we can say.

Another for Broad. This is a doddle so far.

Good news - England are two away from the tail. Not so good news - England are rubbish at bowling to the tail. Bad news - England will probably be batting later.

Ha. I jinxed Petersen ...catching practice for Joe.

Two for Stuart Broad. Must have seen his obituaries on the thread

alfie wrote:Ha. I jinxed Petersen ...catching practice for Joe.

Two for Stuart Broad. Must have seen his obituaries on the thread

It's been proven many times over the years, messages on here must be pinned up in the dressing room. Zak Crawley is probably angry as well, so I wouldn't rule out him going big and making 20

VTR wrote:

alfie wrote:Ha. I jinxed Petersen ...catching practice for Joe.

Two for Stuart Broad. Must have seen his obituaries on the thread

It's been proven many times over the years, messages on here must be pinned up in the dressing room. Zak Crawley is probably angry as well, so I wouldn't rule out him going big and making 20

Cruel

Markram and vd Dussen digging in here - and collecting the odd run when offered. If SA can get to lunch just three down they might feel they've done quite well.

Might see Robinson back for another burst soon. Stokes rarely bowls himself in the first session - though I sometimes think he'd offer a point of difference.

That was really unintelligent batting from Markram. Got a warning with a badly-timed pull which just went over the fielder, then tries the same thing a couple of balls later.

Aha...point of difference indeed ! Short , should be smashed or ignored...but results in a mishit and the fourth wicket ...

Markram will be kicking himself.

Fifteen minutes left to try and get a fifth... That SA tail getting closer.

Though to be fair it wagged a bit at Lord's.

Things going quite well for England this morning. Early days yet...

Leach ? Interesting ...can hear Shane Warne saying "if it seams , it spins"

We shall see...

But not if he's going to bowl long hops

Duty281 wrote:That was really unintelligent batting from Markram. Got a warning with a badly-timed pull which just went over the fielder, then tries the same thing a couple of balls later.

A second successive failing for Markram in this series. I maintain he's better than that but his scores are proving me wrong.

Decent take by Foakes. Easy in the end but the challenge was judging it and getting in the right place which he did.

Thought that was plumb LBW, but two 'umpire's call' on impact and the stumps. Makes it a harsh call, overall. Should two in the orange still be retained as 'out' on the field?

Anyway, 76/5. This could be over inside two full days!

The Force is with Stokes this morning...gets vd Dussen with a very marginal lbw decision ...stands up to a review on umpire's call but a near thing.

To be fair it looked quite good live ; but the batsman might feel a little unlucky there.

England won't mind

Nearly six ! Harsh to call that a drop for Foakes but Verreynne came close to capping off the session for England then !

77/5.

Ah ha, going back to my chat with Olly just before the start, Harmer leapfrogs Maharaj to go in at 7. Understandable. He's no mug although SA do need better than that now.

alfie wrote:Nearly six ! Harsh to call that a drop for Foakes but Verreynne came close to capping off the session for England then !

77/5.

Is it harsh? I think he'll be pretty disappointed to have not taken that one personally.

Good session from England in tremendously bowling-friendly conditions. Stokes' late burst key otherwise it may have only been three down. Robinson probably a frustrated figure with no wickets to show for his efforts.

Key for England now is to get this done within the next hour of play. Be ruthless and keep South Africa below 130. Every run is going to be crucial because I imagine it's going to be a struggle for England to make 200! SA made the wrong decision at the toss and the wrong decision to go for two spinners. They may have cause to regret only taking three seamers for this one, though Rabada and Nortje are going to be a right handful on this.

77/5 is honestly an accurate representation of who we are as a batting team. Saying that, Dean Elgar is a huge fan of playing tough when there is absolutely no reason to... as evidenced by the decision to bat first in these conditions. Good timely reminder that we are indeed still a work in progress.

At the end of the day, the only way this is going five is if England score 800/5, so from that perspective, going with two spinners was probably a mistake. This feels like a toss where Elgar built the game from back to front, where he envisioned Maharaj and Harmer bowling in tandem with men around the bat late in day four/early day five. Oopsie

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

alfie wrote:Nearly six ! Harsh to call that a drop for Foakes but Verreynne came close to capping off the session for England then !

77/5.

Is it harsh? I think he'll be pretty disappointed to have not taken that one personally.

Yep, I think Foakes would have expected to take that. Not so much harsh as high standard which is why he's playing.

kingraf wrote:77/5 is honestly an accurate representation of who we are as a batting team. Saying that, Dean Elgar is a huge fan of playing tough when there is absolutely no reason to... as evidenced by the decision to bat first in these conditions. Good timely reminder that we are indeed still a work in progress.

You aren't out of this. England can struggle with lower orders as noted by others, 200 would be a good total. Even if this is 150 or less, England's reply might not be that clever, they got hammered in a Test by India last year having bowled India out cheaply in the first innings.

VTR wrote:

kingraf wrote:77/5 is honestly an accurate representation of who we are as a batting team. Saying that, Dean Elgar is a huge fan of playing tough when there is absolutely no reason to... as evidenced by the decision to bat first in these conditions. Good timely reminder that we are indeed still a work in progress.

You aren't out of this. England can struggle with lower orders as noted by others, 200 would be a good total. Even if this is 150 or less, England's reply might not be that clever, they got hammered in a Test by India last year having bowled India out cheaply in the first innings.

I don't think we've lost tbh, I just think nothing overhead or on the ground that suggested you should bat first. It was an ego based decision, imo. He'll probably spout some nonsense about how he wanted to "front up" or "lead from the front".

You just don’t pick two spinners and bowl first. Think it is as simple as that for Elgar.

So : now the hard work starts...getting the tail out.

Robinson thinks he has one...but the review shows that was nowhere near the bat. A big noise : what was it ?

He's still bowling no balls , I see...

Ollie Robinson pace watch - still hitting 85/86mph into his second spell. He will be hoping he won’t need a fourth spell to see how his fitness is!

guildfordbat wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

alfie wrote:Nearly six ! Harsh to call that a drop for Foakes but Verreynne came close to capping off the session for England then !

77/5.

Is it harsh? I think he'll be pretty disappointed to have not taken that one personally.

Yep, I think Foakes would have expected to take that. Not so much harsh as high standard which is why he's playing.

Well I'm sure Foakes will be disappointed - he does indeed have high standards. But I reckon that was a tough one. Guess those either stick or they don't. I'm sure no one would have expected Buttler to take it !

No joy yet for Robinson. Gone close a few times now - one way or another. But Verreynne is holding firm for now. Important stand for SA : they will need to bat a bit longer before England lose the plot and start trying to bounce everyone

Ah that's out...very out. SA will lose a review and the wicket. Good bowling Jimmy...

Nice to see England keeping it pitched up. Robinson bowling a good spell after lunch, but still no joy for him.

Joy for Jimmy, however. More joy! Jimmy's on a hat-trick.

And again ! Pitching up to the tail , eh ? Who'd have thought ?

Jimmy on a hat trick...