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BKT United Rugby Championship 2022/23 - news and views

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Post by Pot Hale Thu Sep 01, 2022 11:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

Things building nicely for the start of the new season, first of the pre-season games underway getting ready for kick-off in Round 1 on Friday 16 Sept with Benetton at home facing Glasgow.  

Welsh region Cardiff Rugby take on Munster at their Arms Park HQ hoping to make a better start to their season with new recruits Toby Faletau and Thomas Young returning from the Premiership, two raw receipts from Dragons, multi-capped international, Liam Williams moves across from Scarlets, and the hefty Tongan backrower, Lopeti Tomani, comes in from Toulon.

Zebre have Leinster at home, and 3 derbies with Scarlets v Ospreys, Lions and Bulls,  and Ulster v Connacht.  Edinburgh and Dragons finish out the round.

All teams have recruited across the off-season so should be interesting to see how those pan out.

The Italian, South African, American and Irish unions have organised a mini-comp for development players during Oct, courtesy of the SA franchise Cheetahs.   With the squads likely to be filled with academy and upcoming youngsters, initial concerns about them impacting the URC senior squads have been ill-founded.

By the time we get to Round 6 before test players depart to prepare for Nov internationals, there should be a good picture of how teams are faring in the league this season and where they might finish.

Oh and a new 3-year deal for title sponsor for the URC has been announced - BKT - a global brand in tyre manufacturing - who knew? The title applies globally except in South Africa who have an on-going deal with Vodacom currently.

The blurb reads: "BKT’s sponsorships first started in the USA where its tires equip the iconic giant trucks of Monster Jam in all their incredible shows. Today its wide range of sponsorships include Rugby World Cup France 2023, cricket’s IPL (India) and the Big Bash League (Australia), European football leagues; La Liga (Spain), Serie BKT (Italy) and Ligue 2 (France) and also basketball’s Euroleague."

Roll on the Autumn.


Last edited by Pot Hale on Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by LeinsterFan4life Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:30 pm

Intotouch wrote:So instead of finding a way to save two English prem clubs, or help two championship sides make jump to the premiership level the PRL nab two sides from another league, screwing up that league in the process. So much for solidarity.

I can see how the prem sides might be ok with this but I’m amazed that championship sides would be. Do they have no choice? Are the Welsh sides happy with the prospect of being relegated and why would the championship sides want the extra competition?

If they do go I hope Leinster b can replace one of them. It’d improve the standard.
They'll be replaced by more SA sides. To be fair their TV viewing numbers are impressive.

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Post by Pot Hale Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:40 am

According to Wales Online, the in-depth investigative Welsh newspaper, "details have emerged of just how often Wales’ top stars will be allowed to play for their regions this season. There are agreements in place over all the members of Wayne Pivac’s squad, with appearances dictated by how often players are likely to feature for the national side."

Sounds very familiar. Welsh test players being restricted in the amount of club games they can play to allow them be best prepared for Autumn Internationals and Six Nations.
Same as the Premiership teams do with their England test players who appear for their club less often than other squad members.

I think the Irish test players have similar restrictions as well, IIRC.
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Post by Pot Hale Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:36 pm

Kingshu wrote:https://rugby365.com/tournaments/united-rugby-championship/news-united-rugby-championship/nigel-owens-headlines-new-urc-appointments/

The URC Independent Referee Selectors Panel will include Nigel Owens (Wales), Goerge Clancy (Ireland), Stuart Berry (South Africa) and Neil Paterson (Scotland).

The panel have been appointed to review the performances of match officials in the competition, while they also have the responsibility of selecting an elite group of referees.

Henning revealed that former Scotland hooker Steven Scott has been added as a set-piece analyst.

Scott will have the responsibility of reviewing the scrums and line-outs, which Henning pinpointed as two of the major officiating problem areas.

Henning also conceded that referees and TMOs will be appointed in pairs, in an effort to create synergy between the two individuals and limit the referral stoppages.



All very interesting and is exactly what was wished for.

Yet another stick thats been used to hit the league with has been removed.




We've all been saying this for years that this should happen. About time. Although the panel of independent refs will have some scratching their heads.

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating. Let's see how they get on.
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Post by Kingshu Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:45 pm

Pot Hale wrote:According to Wales Online, the in-depth investigative Welsh newspaper, "details have emerged of just how often Wales’ top stars will be allowed to play for their regions this season.   There are agreements in place over all the members of Wayne Pivac’s squad, with appearances dictated by how often players are likely to feature for the national side."

Sounds very familiar.  Welsh test players being restricted in the amount of club games they can play to allow them be best prepared for Autumn Internationals and Six Nations.
Same as the Premiership teams do with their England test players who appear for their club less often than other squad members.

I think the Irish test players have similar restrictions as well, IIRC.

Yeah the Welsh model sounds like the Irish one where its not a set number of games for everyone, depends on age,position injury profile etc which makes sense, think the English one is just a blanket number of games but could be wrong

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Post by Hazel Sapling Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:58 pm

Not sure on George Clancy being in that elite reffing panel, did not rate him.

It will take years to sort out the referee standards but it is a step in the right direction.

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Post by Pot Hale Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:15 pm

I read that there may be some significant pay cuts for some Welsh players on the way in the regions. Future salaries may be slashed by 10 to 20 percent with performance bonuses used instead to replace the cuts - a stronger play for play regime not unlike with what has happened with the Irish provinces and their squads in the last couple of years.

They're also considering imposing a limit on the number of players in certain salary bands - again quite similar to the IRFU and its different category of contracts for players and max limits.   And the WRU wants the freedom to to move a player from one region to another if they're not getting enough game time - something that the IRFU have been doing since Nucifora's regime began in 2012/13.  

It remains to be seen whether the objectives will be achieved or if Welsh players baulk sufficiently at the proposed changes and refuse to play.  But the WRU may decide to play hardball as the opportunities to pick up contracts elsewhere is limited with the Premiership in deep financial woes and a lower salary cap in place.
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Post by RugbyFan100 Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:50 am

Pot Hale wrote:I read that there may be some significant pay cuts for some Welsh players on the way in the regions. Future salaries may be slashed by 10 to 20 percent with performance bonuses used instead to replace the cuts - a stronger play for play regime not unlike with what has happened with the Irish provinces and their squads in the last couple of years.

They're also considering imposing a limit on the number of players in certain salary bands - again quite similar to the IRFU and its different category of contracts for players and max limits.   And the WRU wants the freedom to to move a player from one region to another if they're not getting enough game time - something that the IRFU have been doing since Nucifora's regime began in 2012/13.  

It remains to be seen whether the objectives will be achieved or if Welsh players baulk sufficiently at the proposed changes and refuse to play.  But the WRU may decide to play hardball as the opportunities to pick up contracts elsewhere is limited with the Premiership in deep financial woes and a lower salary cap in place.

Isn't the English cap increasing by £1.5m ?

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Post by Irish Londoner Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:51 am

Pot Hale wrote:I read that there may be some significant pay cuts for some Welsh players on the way in the regions. Future salaries may be slashed by 10 to 20 percent with performance bonuses used instead to replace the cuts - a stronger play for play regime not unlike with what has happened with the Irish provinces and their squads in the last couple of years.

They're also considering imposing a limit on the number of players in certain salary bands - again quite similar to the IRFU and its different category of contracts for players and max limits.   And the WRU wants the freedom to to move a player from one region to another if they're not getting enough game time - something that the IRFU have been doing since Nucifora's regime began in 2012/13.  

It remains to be seen whether the objectives will be achieved or if Welsh players baulk sufficiently at the proposed changes and refuse to play.  But the WRU may decide to play hardball as the opportunities to pick up contracts elsewhere is limited with the Premiership in deep financial woes and a lower salary cap in place.

I think club rugby as a whole is going to have to wind it's financial neck in, even at clubs which are servicing their debts there must be a few bank managers looking at Worcester and Wasps and getting their staff to have a quick delve into how much they are owed and what assets would cover it "just in case"....

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Post by PhilBB Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:34 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:

I think club rugby as a whole is going to have to wind it's financial neck in, even at clubs which are servicing their debts there must be a few bank managers looking at Worcester and Wasps and getting their staff to have a quick delve into how much they are owed and what assets would cover it "just in case"....

Yet the issues at Worcester and Wasps are not based in rugby, but in other areas. At Worcester, it's woeful Directorship (to put it politely) and at Wasps it's the hotel and stadium business.
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Post by PhilBB Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:35 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:I read that there may be some significant pay cuts for some Welsh players on the way in the regions. Future salaries may be slashed by 10 to 20 percent with performance bonuses used instead to replace the cuts - a stronger play for play regime not unlike with what has happened with the Irish provinces and their squads in the last couple of years.

They're also considering imposing a limit on the number of players in certain salary bands - again quite similar to the IRFU and its different category of contracts for players and max limits.   And the WRU wants the freedom to to move a player from one region to another if they're not getting enough game time - something that the IRFU have been doing since Nucifora's regime began in 2012/13.  

It remains to be seen whether the objectives will be achieved or if Welsh players baulk sufficiently at the proposed changes and refuse to play.  But the WRU may decide to play hardball as the opportunities to pick up contracts elsewhere is limited with the Premiership in deep financial woes and a lower salary cap in place.

Isn't the English cap increasing by £1.5m ?

Gotta love how Powell Hale swallows Orders hook, line and sinker.
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Post by PhilBB Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:38 pm

Is my memory failing me or did some prolific posters on here claim PRL weren't interested in the Welsh?
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:44 pm

I don't think the prl are interested. Has there been some breaking news?

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Post by PhilBB Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:46 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I don't think the prl are interested.  Has there been some breaking news?

Neil Fissler disagrees with you.

Tough one here.

Who to believe? You or Fissler?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:53 pm

Yes it's a tricky one for sure. Shall we come back next week when it hasn't happened and you can give me a tick. Then in a month's time? 6 months? Like I said it's a recycled story, it makes some Welsh fans happy for a brief moment, but nothing more.

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Post by PhilBB Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:55 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yes it's a tricky one for sure. Shall we come back next week when it hasn't happened and you can give me a tick. Then in a month's time? 6 months? Like I said it's a recycled story, it makes some Welsh fans happy for a brief moment, but nothing more.

Are this old trick of yours.

I write "interest"

You reply with "come back when it has happened"

Those two are unrelated.

It's not a recycled story as clearly Worcester and Wasps events are fresh. So that's a flat out lie.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:28 pm

The story about the Welsh or some Welsh clubs is recycled. How can we find out if Fissler is making stuff up again (sure there's a recent reply to him from a rugby player saying what he suggested was bs)? Would it more be a case of wait and see if it happens, which would be the clear cut thing to do? I'm happy for you to come back at regular intervals to say I was right, I'll do the same should Welsh teams materialise in the prem or championship.

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Post by carpet baboon Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:38 pm

PhilBB wrote:Is my memory failing me or did some prolific posters on here claim PRL weren't interested in the Welsh?

Oh I'm one of them (I don't think I'm prolific more occasional)

And I'm still right. They don't have the slightest interest in the Welsh teams. They really don't, not one bit.

But I do love it when this story appears again.

It's so much fun watching all the excitement followed by the crushing deflation of unrequited love.

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Post by Brendan Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:44 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Yes it's a tricky one for sure. Shall we come back next week when it hasn't happened and you can give me a tick. Then in a month's time? 6 months? Like I said it's a recycled story, it makes some Welsh fans happy for a brief moment, but nothing more.

Are this old trick of yours.

I write "interest"

You reply with "come back when it has happened"

Those two are unrelated.

It's not a recycled story as clearly Worcester and Wasps events are fresh. So that's a flat out lie.


Then what about the story is true that the Welsh had had discussions about joining the league that comes up every time the PRL look like they need a new team.

As far as I can tell there was no official discussions.  No offer was made and no request sent in by the Welsh teams.  No chats at WRU who would have to approve it   No chats at RFU who also would have to approve it.

What seems to have happened is two buddies had a chat.  It's unclear what the article means by WRU, person who can make decisions or streward who get a couple of 100 a year for helping at games.

It would be like someone asking me what I would do if I had 100m and me replying buying Munster, then wake up the next day to hear that a person has had talks to buy Munster and put in 100m.

Why would the WRU send half their teams away from a league they are a shareholder in to a league were to buy the PRL shares could cost 10-20m for each team.  I don't think the WRU would be allowed have two and don't think either Region could come up with that money.  That would leave the green pasture less green if only participants rather than shareholders.

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Post by Brendan Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:49 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Is my memory failing me or did some prolific posters on here claim PRL weren't interested in the Welsh?

Oh I'm one of them (I don't think I'm prolific more occasional)

And I'm still right. They don't have the slightest interest in the Welsh teams. They really don't, not one bit.

But I do love it when this story appears again.

It's so much fun watching all the excitement followed by the crushing deflation of unrequited love.

Even the Rangers and Celtic story eventually died. It would be funny if the WRU meant Ponty and Merthyr as the two teams as a joke. They are probably as likely as the Regions.

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Post by RiscaGame Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:58 pm

Brendan,

Have Rangers and Celtic ever been offered places in the English pyramid?

Your second "point(s)" is baffling.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:09 pm

Why is there so much coginitive dissonance regarding this subject?

This is what has been printed in the papers:

Premiership Rugby have had initial discussions with the Welsh Rugby Union about two Welsh regions joining England’s elite club competition from the start of next season.

Premiership bosses are understood to be ready to turn to Wales to fill potential vacancies that will be left if financially distressed Worcester Warriors and Wasps go to the wall in the coming weeks.

Yet we get experts on 606v2 claiming:

They don't have the slightest interest in the Welsh teams. They really don't, not one bit.

How come you choose to take some reports as gospel, but not others? (I.e - the ones you don't want to see?)


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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:25 pm

I'll hold my hands up and say I don't trust all the sources the same. I even discount some completely depending on who is saying it, especially if there are no named quotes.

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Post by carpet baboon Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:28 pm

Because they don't rugbyfan100.
PRL haven't had initial discussion with the WRU about two Welsh regions joining the prem

Just like when the PRL wanted to reform the European cup and some prolific poster on here proudly announced that BT sport's and the PRL had been in discussion with the regions in joining the PRL.

Wasn't true then, isn't true now

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Post by Brendan Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:53 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Brendan,

Have Rangers and Celtic ever been offered places in the English pyramid?

Your second "point(s)" is baffling.

In the 140 years I don't know. There was talk in the 90s but not sure how far talks ever went. Being offered a place is all subjective. It is always the strings attached that never get talked about. Like with the Welsh Clubs in the 90s was everything signed off and then the WRU pulled out or were they given a proposed offer to get the ball rolling to see if it was possible but the WRU refused the engagement.

For those who followed Twitter v Musk giving an initial offer isn't really a done deal but more of a statement of interest.

On the second point where does it say that the PRL are only looking at the Regions or that if the WRU did agree to send teams that it would be their Regions. After all Ponty becoming a professional team in a top European league is as likely as a Region going to the Premiership.

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Post by Brendan Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:59 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:Why is there so much coginitive dissonance regarding this subject?

This is what has been printed in the papers:

Premiership Rugby have had initial discussions with the Welsh Rugby Union about two Welsh regions joining England’s elite club competition from the start of next season.

Premiership bosses are understood to be ready to turn to Wales to fill potential vacancies that will be left if financially distressed Worcester Warriors and Wasps go to the wall in the coming weeks.

Yet we get experts on 606v2 claiming:

They don't have the slightest interest in the Welsh teams. They really don't, not one bit.

How come you choose to take some reports as gospel, but not others? (I.e -  the ones you don't want to see?)


Even WOL said they had spoken to people in the WRU who knew nothing about it. If two reports say the opposite who do you believe. As others have said most make a dubious statement and then straight into the Welsh only want to be in the Premiership. When even WOL says it's false its hard to believe it could be true.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:07 pm

Brendan wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Why is there so much coginitive dissonance regarding this subject?

This is what has been printed in the papers:

Premiership Rugby have had initial discussions with the Welsh Rugby Union about two Welsh regions joining England’s elite club competition from the start of next season.

Premiership bosses are understood to be ready to turn to Wales to fill potential vacancies that will be left if financially distressed Worcester Warriors and Wasps go to the wall in the coming weeks.

Yet we get experts on 606v2 claiming:

They don't have the slightest interest in the Welsh teams. They really don't, not one bit.

How come you choose to take some reports as gospel, but not others? (I.e -  the ones you don't want to see?)


Even WOL said they had spoken to people in the WRU who knew nothing about it.  If two reports say the opposite who do you believe.  As others have said most make a dubious statement and then straight into the Welsh only want to be in the Premiership.  When even WOL says it's false its hard to believe it could be true.

You've gone from "knew nothing about it" to "ITS FALSE" in a single paragraph. Laugh Nicely done.

WOL said their source han't heard anything. Their source is probably Andy Howell.

It must be hard to take that someone doesn't want to be in a league with you, but the sooner you accept it, the better.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:12 pm

How come you choose to take some reports as gospel, but not others RugbyFan?

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Post by PhilBB Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:22 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:The story about the Welsh or some Welsh clubs is recycled. How can we find out if Fissler is making stuff up again (sure there's a recent reply to him from a rugby player saying what he suggested was bs)? Would it more be a case of wait and see if it happens, which would be the clear cut thing to do? I'm happy for you to come back at regular intervals to say I was right, I'll do the same should Welsh teams materialise in the prem or championship.

You might want to call Fissler a liar but you'd be daft to do so.

The point was about INTEREST. That interest has been proven and, in so doing, put yet more egg on your face (were that possible).

That's the problem with being a disingenuous, deliberately contrary poster, I guess.
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Post by PhilBB Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:23 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Is my memory failing me or did some prolific posters on here claim PRL weren't interested in the Welsh?

Oh I'm one of them (I don't think I'm prolific more occasional)

And I'm still right. They don't have the slightest interest in the Welsh teams. They really don't, not one bit.

But I do love it when this story appears again.

It's so much fun watching all the excitement followed by the crushing deflation of unrequited love.

So Fissler is lying?
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:25 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:The story about the Welsh or some Welsh clubs is recycled. How can we find out if Fissler is making stuff up again (sure there's a recent reply to him from a rugby player saying what he suggested was bs)? Would it more be a case of wait and see if it happens, which would be the clear cut thing to do? I'm happy for you to come back at regular intervals to say I was right, I'll do the same should Welsh teams materialise in the prem or championship.

You might want to call Fissler a liar but you'd be daft to do so.

The point was about INTEREST. That interest has been proven and, in so doing, put yet more egg on your face (were that possible).

That's the problem with being a disingenuous, deliberately contrary poster, I guess.
How has the interest been proven please? I've missed that. Unless you mean the Fissler thing and then...well that's not proof.

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Post by PhilBB Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:25 pm

Brendan wrote:

a) Then what about the story is true

b) Why would the WRU send half their teams away from a league they are a shareholder in to a league were to buy the PRL shares could cost 10-20m for each team.  I don't think the WRU would be allowed have two and don't think either Region could come up with that money.  That would leave the green pasture less green if only participants rather than shareholders.

a) the interest
b) the WRU could, as I've written before, easily sell their URC shares to SARU and be cost neutral when allowing their member clubs to buy into PRL.

Interesting that you're able to pontificate on what you think the WRU's shareholding allows. Or that a contract can't be amended.

Regardless, my point was about interest and, of course, that interest has been yet again demonstrably proven.
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Post by PhilBB Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:26 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:Why is there so much coginitive dissonance regarding this subject?


Because some can't even, online, bring themselves to, even anonymously, note "I was wrong"
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Post by PhilBB Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:28 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Because they don't rugbyfan100.
PRL haven't had initial discussion with the WRU about two Welsh regions joining the prem

Just like when the PRL wanted to reform the European cup and some prolific poster on here proudly announced that BT sport's and the PRL had been in discussion with the regions in joining the PRL.

Wasn't true then, isn't true now

Wow

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/featured-post/13343/welsh-will-be-safe-from-aviva-premiership-relegation/
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Post by PhilBB Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:30 pm

Brendan wrote:
Even WOL said they had spoken to people in the WRU who knew nothing about it.

No. Wrong.
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Post by PhilBB Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:31 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
How has the interest been proven please? I've missed that. Unless you mean the Fissler thing and then...well that's not proof.

I see you've taken your lead from the Tory Government.
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Post by Brendan Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:31 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Brendan wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Why is there so much coginitive dissonance regarding this subject?

This is what has been printed in the papers:

Premiership Rugby have had initial discussions with the Welsh Rugby Union about two Welsh regions joining England’s elite club competition from the start of next season.

Premiership bosses are understood to be ready to turn to Wales to fill potential vacancies that will be left if financially distressed Worcester Warriors and Wasps go to the wall in the coming weeks.

Yet we get experts on 606v2 claiming:

They don't have the slightest interest in the Welsh teams. They really don't, not one bit.

How come you choose to take some reports as gospel, but not others? (I.e -  the ones you don't want to see?)


Even WOL said they had spoken to people in the WRU who knew nothing about it.  If two reports say the opposite who do you believe.  As others have said most make a dubious statement and then straight into the Welsh only want to be in the Premiership.  When even WOL says it's false its hard to believe it could be true.

You've gone from "knew nothing about it" to "ITS FALSE" in a single paragraph. Laugh  Nicely done.

WOL said their source han't heard anything. Their source is probably Andy Howell.

It must be hard to take that someone doesn't want to be in a league with you, but the sooner you accept it, the better.

As someone as knowledgeable as yourself can you advise on the agreeded terms regarding the P shares.

In 2012 Exeter paid £5m to Leeds for theirs and it increased their revenue by 30%.  Recently it was reported that Ealing had been told it could cost them £20m to get a new P share.

Clubs must only sell if they have been out of the top flight for more than one year. Do you think Wasps or Wuss would sell their P share to Ealing and stay financial viable or would they rather sell it to a Welsh team owner.

I would be curious if you think staying in the URC would be a better deal than getting about 30% less income than the other teams in the Prem.  If they had to buy shares how do you think they would fund the purchase taking into account the financial viability of the Regions currently and their ability to secure loans by themselves.

Previously the SRU looked into if they could buy Wuss, not sure how far it went. Do you think English Clubs would rather a Scottish run Wuss or a Welsh team if both were choices.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:34 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
How has the interest been proven please? I've missed that. Unless you mean the Fissler thing and then...well that's not proof.

I see you've taken your lead from the Tory Government.

I have to apologise to you after reading that last link. I hadn't realised until then that 'The Welsh regions have struck a deal...'. I imagine that this will be formerly announced shortly *checks date of article*

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Post by PhilBB Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:36 pm

Brendan wrote:
a) & b) Do you think Wasps or Wuss would sell their P share to Ealing and stay financial viable or would they rather sell it to a Welsh team owner.

c) I would be curious if you think staying in the URC would be a better deal than getting about 30% less income than the other teams in the Prem.  
d) If they had to buy shares how do you think they would fund the purchase taking into account the financial viability of the Regions currently and their ability to secure loans by themselves.

e) Previously the SRU looked into if they could buy Wuss, not sure how far it went.  Do you think English Clubs would rather a Scottish run Wuss or a Welsh team if both were choices.

a) Do Ealing fulfil all of the necessary other criteria for PRL entry?
b) Are you confusing the clubs selling their P share or the administrator?
c) No. The URC is Poopie. It's income generation is Poopie.
d) Via the sale of the shareholding in the URC which, as members of the WRU, rightly belongs to them
e) Their choice was made public by Fissler.
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Post by PhilBB Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:37 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
How has the interest been proven please? I've missed that. Unless you mean the Fissler thing and then...well that's not proof.

I see you've taken your lead from the Tory Government.

I have to apologise to you after reading that last link. I hadn't realised until then that 'The Welsh regions have struck a deal...'. I imagine that this will be formerly announced shortly *checks date of article*

Yes, the deal was struck.

The purpose of the last link was to prove that Baboon was writing what comes out of a Baboon's behind.
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Post by RugbyFan100 Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:37 pm

Brendan wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
Brendan wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Why is there so much coginitive dissonance regarding this subject?

This is what has been printed in the papers:

Premiership Rugby have had initial discussions with the Welsh Rugby Union about two Welsh regions joining England’s elite club competition from the start of next season.

Premiership bosses are understood to be ready to turn to Wales to fill potential vacancies that will be left if financially distressed Worcester Warriors and Wasps go to the wall in the coming weeks.

Yet we get experts on 606v2 claiming:

They don't have the slightest interest in the Welsh teams. They really don't, not one bit.

How come you choose to take some reports as gospel, but not others? (I.e -  the ones you don't want to see?)


Even WOL said they had spoken to people in the WRU who knew nothing about it.  If two reports say the opposite who do you believe.  As others have said most make a dubious statement and then straight into the Welsh only want to be in the Premiership.  When even WOL says it's false its hard to believe it could be true.

You've gone from "knew nothing about it" to "ITS FALSE" in a single paragraph. Laugh  Nicely done.

WOL said their source han't heard anything. Their source is probably Andy Howell.

It must be hard to take that someone doesn't want to be in a league with you, but the sooner you accept it, the better.

As someone as knowledgeable as yourself can you advise on the agreeded terms regarding the P shares.

In 2012 Exeter paid £5m to Leeds for theirs and it increased their revenue by 30%.  Recently it was reported that Ealing had been told it could cost them £20m to get a new P share.

Clubs must only sell if they have been out of the top flight for more than one year.  Do you think Wasps or Wuss would sell their P share to Ealing and stay financial viable or would they rather sell it to a Welsh team owner.

I would be curious if you think staying in the URC would be a better deal than getting about 30% less income than the other teams in the Prem.  If they had to buy shares how do you think they would fund the purchase taking into account the financial viability of the Regions currently and their ability to secure loans by themselves.

Previously the SRU looked into if they could buy Wuss, not sure how far it went.  Do you think English Clubs would rather a Scottish run Wuss or a Welsh team if both were choices.

The Premeirship, rightly wouldn't allow a Union anywhere into it's league for all the tea in China

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:39 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
How has the interest been proven please? I've missed that. Unless you mean the Fissler thing and then...well that's not proof.

I see you've taken your lead from the Tory Government.

I have to apologise to you after reading that last link. I hadn't realised until then that 'The Welsh regions have struck a deal...'. I imagine that this will be formerly announced shortly *checks date of article*

Yes, the deal was struck.

The purpose of the last link was to prove that Baboon was writing what comes out of a Baboon's behind.

That's great news then, with the deal struck we'll be seeing the Welsh teams in the prem by what 2015 at the latest?

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Post by PhilBB Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:41 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
That's great news then, with the deal struck we'll be seeing the Welsh teams in the prem by what 2015 at the latest?

Yes, that's right.

Well done on some conflation to take the heat from your disingenuous nonsense, however. Good on you.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:46 pm

No probs, I'm excited by this prospect. I honestly never knew it had all be agreed. Exciting times, wonder if they'll end up pushing Wasps out to make way for the 4 additional teams then?

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Post by Brendan Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:48 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Brendan wrote:

a) Then what about the story is true

b) Why would the WRU send half their teams away from a league they are a shareholder in to a league were to buy the PRL shares could cost 10-20m for each team.  I don't think the WRU would be allowed have two and don't think either Region could come up with that money.  That would leave the green pasture less green if only participants rather than shareholders.

a) the interest
b) the WRU could, as I've written before, easily sell their URC shares to SARU and be cost neutral when allowing their member clubs to buy into PRL.

Interesting that you're able to pontificate on what you think the WRU's shareholding allows. Or that a contract can't be amended.

Regardless, my point was about interest and, of course, that interest has been yet again demonstrably proven.

Why would the WRU walk away from owning part of a league to owning no part of a league and lose control of half their professional teams. It might give short-term reward but would be a long term bad move.

An article does not show interest, it just shows that a journalist has opinions and is not able to support any statements made. What person from any of the parties involved has come out to back up the article claims.

On the other hand how many people have said they checked with their sources and it was denied. If the talks are so secertive that no other person can confirm it or even say it probably true it most likely has not happened.

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Post by PhilBB Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:01 pm

Brendan wrote:
Why would the WRU walk away from owning part of a league to owning no part of a league and lose control of half their professional teams.  It might give short-term reward but would be a long term bad move.

An article does not show interest, it just shows that a journalist has opinions and is not able to support any statements made.  What person from any of the parties involved has come out to back up the article claims.

On the other hand how many people have said they checked with their sources and it was denied.  If the talks are so secertive that no other person can confirm it or even say it probably true it most likely has not happened.

Why would they "lose control" and what "control" do you presently think they have?

The article doesn't show interest? Okie dokie.

On the other hand? None. Remember?
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Post by PhilBB Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:02 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:No probs, I'm excited by this prospect. I honestly never knew it had all be agreed. Exciting times, wonder if they'll end up pushing Wasps out to make way for the 4 additional teams then?

You keep channelling Kwarteng whilst the grown ups recognise you're looking silly. Again.
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Post by Brendan Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:05 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Brendan wrote:
a) & b) Do you think Wasps or Wuss would sell their P share to Ealing and stay financial viable or would they rather sell it to a Welsh team owner.

c) I would be curious if you think staying in the URC would be a better deal than getting about 30% less income than the other teams in the Prem.  
d) If they had to buy shares how do you think they would fund the purchase taking into account the financial viability of the Regions currently and their ability to secure loans by themselves.

e) Previously the SRU looked into if they could buy Wuss, not sure how far it went.  Do you think English Clubs would rather a Scottish run Wuss or a Welsh team if both were choices.

a) Do Ealing fulfil all of the necessary other criteria for PRL entry?
b) Are you confusing the clubs selling their P share or the administrator?
c) No. The URC is Poopie. It's income generation is Poopie.
d) Via the sale of the shareholding in the URC which, as members of the WRU, rightly belongs to them
e) Their choice was made public by Fissler.

Interesting takes.

If the PRL would pay more to Wasps and Wuss for P Shares so they can sell them on for even more money don't you think they would do that. Can't see a Region out bidding the PRL.

Ealing will be in once the PRL want them in. Last week things were changed around capacity requirements.

If the URC is a poor money generator how are URC teams in the UK able to spend more that Prem teams on wages. If it is Union funding how will the Regions be able to survive on 30% less of the Prem funding without P Shares and on top of that not quailify for the RFU top up. It still hasn't been said that the PRL will allow other Unions fund specific teams only.

The WRU and the three private Welsh Regions are two different bodies. The WRU own the URC shares the Regions are the ones wanting to go to the PRL.

Being in the URC they are able to sign players and have larger wage caps. In the Prem that would be alot harder. Would a team like Cardiff be able to write off all the academy credits of the English cap as how many of their stars are academy graduates.

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Post by carpet baboon Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:07 pm

PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Because they don't rugbyfan100.
PRL haven't had initial discussion with the WRU about two Welsh regions joining the prem

Just like when the PRL wanted to reform the European cup and some prolific poster on here proudly announced that BT sport's and the PRL had been in discussion with the regions in joining the PRL.

Wasn't true then, isn't true now

Wow

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/featured-post/13343/welsh-will-be-safe-from-aviva-premiership-relegation/

What does this prove? That the PRL used you for a vote.

Struck a "deal"
The "proposal"

It's good having a desperate neighbor you can dangle a carrot at when you need them.

It's funny how you think any team in the PRL would agree to being relegated to save a Welsh club

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Post by Brendan Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:30 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Because they don't rugbyfan100.
PRL haven't had initial discussion with the WRU about two Welsh regions joining the prem

Just like when the PRL wanted to reform the European cup and some prolific poster on here proudly announced that BT sport's and the PRL had been in discussion with the regions in joining the PRL.

Wasn't true then, isn't true now

Wow

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/featured-post/13343/welsh-will-be-safe-from-aviva-premiership-relegation/

What does this prove? That the PRL used you for a vote.

Struck a "deal"
The "proposal"

It's good having a desperate neighbor you can dangle a carrot at when you need them.

It's funny how you think any team in the PRL would agree to being relegated to save a Welsh club

Its from 2013 but show your point. They agreed to the changes in Europe which has seen Welsh involemnet slump in the European Champions Cup and still not in an Anglo Welsh league. Even though it wax all agreed.

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Post by Irish Londoner Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:30 pm

PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Because they don't rugbyfan100.
PRL haven't had initial discussion with the WRU about two Welsh regions joining the prem

Just like when the PRL wanted to reform the European cup and some prolific poster on here proudly announced that BT sport's and the PRL had been in discussion with the regions in joining the PRL.

Wasn't true then, isn't true now

Wow

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/featured-post/13343/welsh-will-be-safe-from-aviva-premiership-relegation/

The Rugby Paper article is from 2013 - nearly ten years ago, however to be fair no Welsh teams have been relegated from the English Premiership since then !

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