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BKT United Rugby Championship 2022/23 - news and views

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Post by Pot Hale Thu Sep 01, 2022 11:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

Things building nicely for the start of the new season, first of the pre-season games underway getting ready for kick-off in Round 1 on Friday 16 Sept with Benetton at home facing Glasgow.  

Welsh region Cardiff Rugby take on Munster at their Arms Park HQ hoping to make a better start to their season with new recruits Toby Faletau and Thomas Young returning from the Premiership, two raw receipts from Dragons, multi-capped international, Liam Williams moves across from Scarlets, and the hefty Tongan backrower, Lopeti Tomani, comes in from Toulon.

Zebre have Leinster at home, and 3 derbies with Scarlets v Ospreys, Lions and Bulls,  and Ulster v Connacht.  Edinburgh and Dragons finish out the round.

All teams have recruited across the off-season so should be interesting to see how those pan out.

The Italian, South African, American and Irish unions have organised a mini-comp for development players during Oct, courtesy of the SA franchise Cheetahs.   With the squads likely to be filled with academy and upcoming youngsters, initial concerns about them impacting the URC senior squads have been ill-founded.

By the time we get to Round 6 before test players depart to prepare for Nov internationals, there should be a good picture of how teams are faring in the league this season and where they might finish.

Oh and a new 3-year deal for title sponsor for the URC has been announced - BKT - a global brand in tyre manufacturing - who knew? The title applies globally except in South Africa who have an on-going deal with Vodacom currently.

The blurb reads: "BKT’s sponsorships first started in the USA where its tires equip the iconic giant trucks of Monster Jam in all their incredible shows. Today its wide range of sponsorships include Rugby World Cup France 2023, cricket’s IPL (India) and the Big Bash League (Australia), European football leagues; La Liga (Spain), Serie BKT (Italy) and Ligue 2 (France) and also basketball’s Euroleague."

Roll on the Autumn.


Last edited by Pot Hale on Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:28 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:More an issues of the Unions playing outside the international window than anything on the URC surely?

That's the DNA of the URC. One 25% shareholder even took its employees out on tour during the URC.

What a way to value your product.

And the Prem.

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Post by PhilBB Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:42 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:More an issues of the Unions playing outside the international window than anything on the URC surely?

That's the DNA of the URC. One 25% shareholder even took its employees out on tour during the URC.

What a way to value your product.

And the Prem.

Eh?

Oh, I assume you mean the additional AI. Yes, agreed.
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Post by RugbyFan100 Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:41 pm

Difference is, all the clubs in the Prem know where they stand. They all have payments coming to them from the one Union that may play out of window tests and may pick some of their players.

The point of the SA article here seems to be that they are bereft of a whole host of players for an out of window test, they don't even seem to get fair compensatory payments for this, and in the URC they could be playing against teams who's nation aren't playing an out of window test, therefore playing a URC match against a much stronger side / fielding their test palyers.

Welcome to the club chaps.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:43 pm

Not the fault of the urc but the fault of the union. Are the clubs in SA completely free of their union ie they could just refuse?

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Post by PhilBB Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:39 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not the fault of the urc but the fault of the union. Are the clubs in SA completely free of their union ie they could just refuse?

The URC is the Unions. That's the point. 4 shareholders.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:41 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Not the fault of the urc but the fault of the union. Are the clubs in SA completely free of their union ie they could just refuse?

The URC is the Unions. That's the point. 4 shareholders.


So the SA sides are rub by their union then?

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Post by PhilBB Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:05 pm

Dear God.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:41 pm

Yes? No?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:50 pm

Just looking it up and it doesn't seem to be that the union runs them so they can recall their players if they want? So it's not a urc issue.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:16 pm

What can the URC do here out of interest? The fixtures have already been reduced.

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Post by PhilBB Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:20 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:What can the URC do here out of interest? The fixtures have already been reduced.

The URC is owned by those who are scheduling some of the fixtures.


Last edited by PhilBB on Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:28 am

PhilBB wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:What can the URC do here out of interest? The fixtures have already been reduced.

The URC is owned by those who are scheduling the fixtures.

Does that include SA Rugby?

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Post by PhilBB Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:38 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:What can the URC do here out of interest? The fixtures have already been reduced.

The URC is owned by those who are scheduling the fixtures.

Does that include SA Rugby?

There, I edited it for you.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:44 am

So in relation to the South Africa England game there are no Unions who own the URC who are involved in scheduling it?

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Post by PhilBB Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:49 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:So in relation to the South Africa England game there are no Unions who own the URC who are involved in scheduling it?

Yes.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:54 am

So, sod all to do with the URC then in this instance. The SA sides could refuse to release their players; but does anyone want to try that with their closest partner?

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Post by PhilBB Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:57 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:So, sod all to do with the URC then in this instance. The SA sides could refuse to release their players; but does anyone want to try that with their closest partner?

You seem confident that the SA teams could refused to release their players. What's that confidence based on?
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:10 am

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:So, sod all to do with the URC then in this instance. The SA sides could refuse to release their players; but does anyone want to try that with their closest partner?

You seem confident that the SA teams could refused to release their players. What's that confidence based on?

World Rugby rules around International Windows and player release.

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Post by PhilBB Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:26 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:So, sod all to do with the URC then in this instance. The SA sides could refuse to release their players; but does anyone want to try that with their closest partner?

You seem confident that the SA teams could refused to release their players. What's that confidence based on?

World Rugby rules around International Windows and player release.

So you've completely discounted a similar agreement to what the WRU and RFU have in place.
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Post by thebandwagonsociety Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:30 am

I can't access that link as it's blocked for me unfortunately.
Did we really make a full page of vitriol out of the fact that SA and Wales both chose to participate in test fixtures outside of the international window? To the detriment of a league? Where on that weekend all 4 SA sides are playing all 4 Wales sides so both have made the same decision and both impact themselves?

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Post by PhilBB Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:34 am

thebandwagonsociety wrote:I can't access that link as it's blocked for me unfortunately.
Did we really make a full page of vitriol out of the fact that SA and Wales both chose to participate in test fixtures outside of the international window? To the detriment of a league? Where on that weekend all 4 SA sides are playing all 4 Wales sides so both have made the same decision and both impact themselves?

Yes, because it underlines how garbage the URC is.

This goes back to a previous point of how the league is negatively affected by when the fixtures fall (going back to how Connacht won the league by scoring more points during the RWC etc.).
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:47 am

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:So, sod all to do with the URC then in this instance. The SA sides could refuse to release their players; but does anyone want to try that with their closest partner?

You seem confident that the SA teams could refused to release their players. What's that confidence based on?

World Rugby rules around International Windows and player release.

So you've completely discounted a similar agreement to what the WRU and RFU have in place.

Again though if an agreement is in place with the SA sides and their union that's nothing to do with the URC. They can't compel the Union not to arrange games outside the designated window and they can't enforce what players the sides pick. Ultimately the sides could recall their players if they wanted and the Union would not be able to stop them. Sod all to do with the URC.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:03 am

PhilBB wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:I can't access that link as it's blocked for me unfortunately.
Did we really make a full page of vitriol out of the fact that SA and Wales both chose to participate in test fixtures outside of the international window? To the detriment of a league? Where on that weekend all 4 SA sides are playing all 4 Wales sides so both have made the same decision and both impact themselves?

Yes, because it underlines how garbage the URC is.

This goes back to a previous point of how the league is negatively affected by when the fixtures fall (going back to how Connacht won the league by scoring more points during the RWC etc.).

So the welsh shouldn't have organised a test match outside of the international fixture window so that the welsh could take advantage of under-strength SA sides this weekend?

That's a pitiful dismissal of Connachts hard work and efforts to win the league.

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Post by Pot Hale Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:09 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:Difference is, all the clubs in the Prem know where they stand. They all have payments coming to them from the one Union that may play out of window tests and may pick some of their players.

The point of the SA article here seems to be that they are bereft of a whole host of players for an out of window test, they don't even seem to get fair compensatory payments for this, and in the URC they could be playing against teams who's nation aren't playing an out of window test, therefore playing a URC match against a much stronger side / fielding their test palyers.

Welcome to the club chaps.

Funnily enough, both Wales and South Africa are playing an extra test this weekend.

And the URC schedule is:
Stormers v Scarlets
Bulls v Ospreys
Lions v Dragons
Sharks v Cardiff

It’s almost like they planned it that way….

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:14 am

Intotouch wrote:By the way if PhilBB drives away someone like Pothale who shares so many well researched, intelligent and balanced posts and responses I’d like us all to campaign for PhilBB to be banned to keep Pothale. If we can choose. We need more posters like Pothale. This is the only time I’ve read a personal criticism from Pothale. This is an exception and shouldn’t result in someone being banned.

Unfortunately, this is not how it works.

Guys.....I've said it a few time, the block function is your friend. We can't all get along all of the time, just put that annoying poster that winds you up on block and there we go....they've gone!

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Post by PhilBB Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:36 am

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

So the welsh shouldn't have organised a test match outside of the international fixture window so that the welsh could take advantage of under-strength SA sides this weekend?

That's a pitiful dismissal of Connachts hard work and efforts to win the league.

It's a factually accurate comment on how Connacht won their points. Check the record for yourself - points won in international windows versus points won outside.

And, if the URC is ever to be a decent competition, it shouldn't be played on Test Match weekends. Isn't that point blindingly obvious?
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Post by PhilBB Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:42 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Again though if an agreement is in place with the SA sides and their union that's nothing to do with the URC. They can't compel the Union not to arrange games outside the designated window and they can't enforce what players the sides pick. Ultimately the sides could recall their players if they wanted and the Union would not be able to stop them. Sod all to do with the URC.

If the URC isn't its constituent members and shareholders, what is it?
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Post by PhilBB Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:43 am

Pot Hale wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Difference is, all the clubs in the Prem know where they stand. They all have payments coming to them from the one Union that may play out of window tests and may pick some of their players.

The point of the SA article here seems to be that they are bereft of a whole host of players for an out of window test, they don't even seem to get fair compensatory payments for this, and in the URC they could be playing against teams who's nation aren't playing an out of window test, therefore playing a URC match against a much stronger side / fielding their test palyers.

Welcome to the club chaps.

Funnily enough, both Wales and South Africa are playing an extra test this weekend.  

And the URC schedule is:
Stormers v Scarlets
Bulls v Ospreys
Lions v Dragons
Sharks v Cardiff

It’s almost like they planned it that way….


I don't think there's any doubt that the URC is planned to be a second class of competition.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:51 am

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Again though if an agreement is in place with the SA sides and their union that's nothing to do with the URC. They can't compel the Union not to arrange games outside the designated window and they can't enforce what players the sides pick. Ultimately the sides could recall their players if they wanted and the Union would not be able to stop them. Sod all to do with the URC.

If the URC isn't its constituent members and shareholders, what is it?

How can the URC stop the SA Union from scheduling games outside the window please?

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Post by Oakdene Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:16 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Intotouch wrote:By the way if PhilBB drives away someone like Pothale who shares so many well researched, intelligent and balanced posts and responses I’d like us all to campaign for PhilBB to be banned to keep Pothale. If we can choose. We need more posters like Pothale. This is the only time I’ve read a personal criticism from Pothale. This is an exception and shouldn’t result in someone being banned.

Unfortunately, this is not how it works.

Guys.....I've said it a few time, the block function is your friend. We can't all get along all of the time, just put that annoying poster that winds you up on block and there we go....they've gone!

Who said that Whistle Whistle

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Post by carpet baboon Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:04 pm

Bill Sweeney (RFU)says "there haven't been any real or active conversations."

Simon Massie-Taylor says "it's not under current serious consideration."

These were the response to a question about an Anglo Welsh league So would seem those story's of two Welsh teams being parachuted into the prem were absolute bobbins.
Who would have guessed

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:08 pm

PhilBB wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:

So the welsh shouldn't have organised a test match outside of the international fixture window so that the welsh could take advantage of under-strength SA sides this weekend?

That's a pitiful dismissal of Connachts hard work and efforts to win the league.

It's a factually accurate comment on how Connacht won their points. Check the record for yourself - points won in international windows versus points won outside.

And, if the URC is ever to be a decent competition, it shouldn't be played on Test Match weekends. Isn't that point blindingly obvious?


It's pitiful.
Connacht made it into the playoffs far and square.
They defeated glasgow, who if I remember had some prolific try scoring that season, in a semi final.
Then they beat a decent Leinster side in the final, outscoring on points and beating us on tries scored too.
They earned that title.
To dismiss it as you have is pitiful.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:22 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:

So the welsh shouldn't have organised a test match outside of the international fixture window so that the welsh could take advantage of under-strength SA sides this weekend?

That's a pitiful dismissal of Connachts hard work and efforts to win the league.

It's a factually accurate comment on how Connacht won their points. Check the record for yourself - points won in international windows versus points won outside.

And, if the URC is ever to be a decent competition, it shouldn't be played on Test Match weekends. Isn't that point blindingly obvious?


It's pitiful.
Connacht made it into the playoffs far and square.
They defeated glasgow, who if I remember had some prolific try scoring that season, in a semi final.
Then they beat a decent Leinster side in the final, outscoring on points and beating us on tries scored too.
They earned that title.
To dismiss it as you have is pitiful.

It's really not. It's realism. If Wales beat Australia this weekend, it will be largely because Australia have about 300 players misisng. Everything needs context.

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Post by Oakdene Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:28 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:

So the welsh shouldn't have organised a test match outside of the international fixture window so that the welsh could take advantage of under-strength SA sides this weekend?

That's a pitiful dismissal of Connachts hard work and efforts to win the league.

It's a factually accurate comment on how Connacht won their points. Check the record for yourself - points won in international windows versus points won outside.

And, if the URC is ever to be a decent competition, it shouldn't be played on Test Match weekends. Isn't that point blindingly obvious?


It's pitiful.
Connacht made it into the playoffs far and square.
They defeated glasgow, who if I remember had some prolific try scoring that season, in a semi final.
Then they beat a decent Leinster side in the final, outscoring on points and beating us on tries scored too.
They earned that title.
To dismiss it as you have is pitiful.

It's really not. It's realism. If Wales beat Australia this weekend, it will be largely because Australia have about 300 players misisng. Everything needs context.

Agreed, we won't have won because we're a decent team that's for sure.

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Post by Irish Londoner Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:16 pm

PhilBB wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:

So the welsh shouldn't have organised a test match outside of the international fixture window so that the welsh could take advantage of under-strength SA sides this weekend?

That's a pitiful dismissal of Connachts hard work and efforts to win the league.

It's a factually accurate comment on how Connacht won their points. Check the record for yourself - points won in international windows versus points won outside.

And, if the URC is ever to be a decent competition, it shouldn't be played on Test Match weekends. Isn't that point blindingly obvious?

The Premiership has fixtures this weekend even though England are playing on Saturday is that not a decent competition either ?

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Post by LordDowlais Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:20 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:

So the welsh shouldn't have organised a test match outside of the international fixture window so that the welsh could take advantage of under-strength SA sides this weekend?

That's a pitiful dismissal of Connachts hard work and efforts to win the league.

It's a factually accurate comment on how Connacht won their points. Check the record for yourself - points won in international windows versus points won outside.

And, if the URC is ever to be a decent competition, it shouldn't be played on Test Match weekends. Isn't that point blindingly obvious?

The Premiership has fixtures this weekend even though England are playing on Saturday is that not a decent competition either ?

To be fair, England has a lot more teams, so a league losing their best players across 10 teams will not have as much affect as it would across 4 teams.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:04 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:

So the welsh shouldn't have organised a test match outside of the international fixture window so that the welsh could take advantage of under-strength SA sides this weekend?

That's a pitiful dismissal of Connachts hard work and efforts to win the league.

It's a factually accurate comment on how Connacht won their points. Check the record for yourself - points won in international windows versus points won outside.

And, if the URC is ever to be a decent competition, it shouldn't be played on Test Match weekends. Isn't that point blindingly obvious?

The Premiership has fixtures this weekend even though England are playing on Saturday is that not a decent competition either ?

To be fair, England has a lot more teams, so a league losing their best players across 10 teams will not have as much affect as it would across 4 teams.
The prem is so weak right now it absolutely does have as much of an affect. SA have the depth to cope, prem teams do not. All these out of window internationals show once again, is that is where the money and interest is.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:19 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:

So the welsh shouldn't have organised a test match outside of the international fixture window so that the welsh could take advantage of under-strength SA sides this weekend?

That's a pitiful dismissal of Connachts hard work and efforts to win the league.

It's a factually accurate comment on how Connacht won their points. Check the record for yourself - points won in international windows versus points won outside.

And, if the URC is ever to be a decent competition, it shouldn't be played on Test Match weekends. Isn't that point blindingly obvious?

The Premiership has fixtures this weekend even though England are playing on Saturday is that not a decent competition either ?

To be fair, England has a lot more teams, so a league losing their best players across 10 teams will not have as much affect as it would across 4 teams.
The prem is so weak right now it absolutely does have as much of an affect. SA have the depth to cope, prem teams do not. All these out of window internationals show once again, is that is where the money and interest is.

Lol.

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Post by LordDowlais Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:17 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:

So the welsh shouldn't have organised a test match outside of the international fixture window so that the welsh could take advantage of under-strength SA sides this weekend?

That's a pitiful dismissal of Connachts hard work and efforts to win the league.

It's a factually accurate comment on how Connacht won their points. Check the record for yourself - points won in international windows versus points won outside.

And, if the URC is ever to be a decent competition, it shouldn't be played on Test Match weekends. Isn't that point blindingly obvious?

The Premiership has fixtures this weekend even though England are playing on Saturday is that not a decent competition either ?

To be fair, England has a lot more teams, so a league losing their best players across 10 teams will not have as much affect as it would across 4 teams.
The prem is so weak right now it absolutely does have as much of an affect. SA have the depth to cope, prem teams do not. All these out of window internationals show once again, is that is where the money and interest is.

Your missing the point.

38 players across 10 teams = 3.8 players lost per team.

38 players across 4 teams = 9.5 players lost per team.

That in itself tells you the problem. OK

It doesn't matter how weak you consider anything to be, they are still the best players available to the team.

Its even worse for the Scottish and Italians as they only have two teams.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:25 am

LordDowlais wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:

So the welsh shouldn't have organised a test match outside of the international fixture window so that the welsh could take advantage of under-strength SA sides this weekend?

That's a pitiful dismissal of Connachts hard work and efforts to win the league.

It's a factually accurate comment on how Connacht won their points. Check the record for yourself - points won in international windows versus points won outside.

And, if the URC is ever to be a decent competition, it shouldn't be played on Test Match weekends. Isn't that point blindingly obvious?

The Premiership has fixtures this weekend even though England are playing on Saturday is that not a decent competition either ?

To be fair, England has a lot more teams, so a league losing their best players across 10 teams will not have as much affect as it would across 4 teams.
The prem is so weak right now it absolutely does have as much of an affect. SA have the depth to cope, prem teams do not. All these out of window internationals show once again, is that is where the money and interest is.

Your missing the point.

38 players across 10 teams = 3.8 players lost per team.

38 players across 4 teams = 9.5 players lost per team.

That in itself tells you the problem. OK

It doesn't matter how weak you consider anything to be, they are still the best players available to the team.

Its even worse for the Scottish and Italians as they only have two teams.
I'm hardly missing the point ffs. It still has the same effect in the sense that it effects the outcome of games and thus the league table. There's always an excuse with you guys, as to why its ok for the prem to do certain things but not the URC. There's a reason why these out of window internationals happen and the clubs are happy to go along with it.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:03 am

LordDowlais wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:

So the welsh shouldn't have organised a test match outside of the international fixture window so that the welsh could take advantage of under-strength SA sides this weekend?

That's a pitiful dismissal of Connachts hard work and efforts to win the league.

It's a factually accurate comment on how Connacht won their points. Check the record for yourself - points won in international windows versus points won outside.

And, if the URC is ever to be a decent competition, it shouldn't be played on Test Match weekends. Isn't that point blindingly obvious?

The Premiership has fixtures this weekend even though England are playing on Saturday is that not a decent competition either ?

To be fair, England has a lot more teams, so a league losing their best players across 10 teams will not have as much affect as it would across 4 teams.
The prem is so weak right now it absolutely does have as much of an affect. SA have the depth to cope, prem teams do not. All these out of window internationals show once again, is that is where the money and interest is.

Your missing the point.

38 players across 10 teams = 3.8 players lost per team.

38 players across 4 teams = 9.5 players lost per team.

That in itself tells you the problem. OK

It doesn't matter how weak you consider anything to be, they are still the best players available to the team.

Its even worse for the Scottish and Italians as they only have two teams.

God that's a lazy stat. You could have looked up quite quickly to see which teams are missing players, you don't need to use an average. It then also ignores if there are any foreign based internationals. d minus for effort.

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Post by LordDowlais Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:41 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:

So the welsh shouldn't have organised a test match outside of the international fixture window so that the welsh could take advantage of under-strength SA sides this weekend?

That's a pitiful dismissal of Connachts hard work and efforts to win the league.

It's a factually accurate comment on how Connacht won their points. Check the record for yourself - points won in international windows versus points won outside.

And, if the URC is ever to be a decent competition, it shouldn't be played on Test Match weekends. Isn't that point blindingly obvious?

The Premiership has fixtures this weekend even though England are playing on Saturday is that not a decent competition either ?

To be fair, England has a lot more teams, so a league losing their best players across 10 teams will not have as much affect as it would across 4 teams.
The prem is so weak right now it absolutely does have as much of an affect. SA have the depth to cope, prem teams do not. All these out of window internationals show once again, is that is where the money and interest is.

Your missing the point.

38 players across 10 teams = 3.8 players lost per team.

38 players across 4 teams = 9.5 players lost per team.

That in itself tells you the problem. OK

It doesn't matter how weak you consider anything to be, they are still the best players available to the team.

Its even worse for the Scottish and Italians as they only have two teams.
I'm hardly missing the point ffs. It still has the same effect in the sense that it effects the outcome of games and thus the league table. There's always an excuse with you guys, as to why its ok for the prem to do certain things but not the URC. There's a reason why these out of window internationals happen and the clubs are happy to go along with it.

I am not making excuses and I know about the internationals.

I am just pointing out how it constrains teams when it's happening.

What is wrong with people ?

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Post by RiscaGame Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:22 am

Here’s a good article finally off clickbait online. This lays out some of the issues that our pro teams face. Nobody in the URC is as hamstrung as the Welsh teams are. Certainly not those who claim parity in budgets etc anyway.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/sacking-backing-wayne-pivac-means-25603698

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Post by Irish Londoner Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:55 am

The basic problem is not with the URC it's with Welsh rugby, the WRU, the Welsh professional cubs and the Welsh amateur clubs - all the issues around blaming the URC are a deflection from that basic fact.
Welsh rugby needs to face the facts - if you want professional rugby in Wales there are two options - the URC or an internal Wales based competition, the English are never going to let you in anymore than the FA are going take in Rangers and Celtic, this pointless pining for an era when apparently unlimited tens of thousands appeared at the Gnoll or Sardis Road to watch games against Bath and Gloucester are gone (if they ever were true) and they ain't coming back.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:52 am

RiscaGame wrote:Here’s a good article finally off clickbait online. This lays out some of the issues that our pro teams face. Nobody in the URC is as hamstrung as the Welsh teams are. Certainly not those who claim parity in budgets etc anyway.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/sacking-backing-wayne-pivac-means-25603698

Pretty much spot on. There are players in Wales that are now taking office jobs at the end of this season and retiring from pro rugby because they have no contracts lined up, and they need to pay the mortgage.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:54 am

Irish Londoner wrote:if you want professional rugby in Wales there are two options - the URC or an internal Wales based competition, the English are never going to let you in anymore than the FA are going take in Rangers and Celtic, this pointless pining for an era when apparently unlimited tens of thousands appeared at the Gnoll or Sardis Road to watch games against Bath and Gloucester are gone (if they ever were true) and they ain't coming back.

I think this is true.

But what is also true, is that the only thing that will enable pro domestic rugby to flourish in Wales is either an anglo-welsh league or a British and Irish League.

That's why Welsh pro domestic rugby is absoltely f***ed.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:14 pm

Most of the things you complain about of the URC would be replicated in an Anglo Welsh or British or Irish league though.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:08 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Most of the things you complain about of the URC would be replicated in an Anglo Welsh or British or Irish league though.

I don't agree.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:21 pm

Which ones would be reduced or disappear then?

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Post by RugbyFan100 Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:28 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Which ones would be reduced or disappear then?

Christ we've done this to death.

Increased sponsorship, increased matchday income, increased broadcast income, away fans at the home games, actual travel possibilities to away games, better officiating, more routine kick off times, no Unions taking players out for emerging tours in South Africa, no south african teams, fewer boat and airplane trips, better carbon footprint, no Union ownership of multiple entrants, better TV coverage on proper sports channels, league owned by the teams taking part, not the Unions who just want to ensure players are prepared for tets rugby, salary cap ensuring even playing field.....

I could go on and on and on........

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