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England post 2022 6Ns, Aus tour and beyond

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Post by mountain man Mon 17 Oct 2022, 11:38 am

First topic message reminder :

Hate to say it and I don't wish him injured but I'm glad Ewels not available!
If you're disappointed with Malins and Daly being selected, imagine how most of us feel about Youngs being there.
In fairness, Malins and Daly been superb this season but please give Radwan and Arundell a run.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 04 Nov 2022, 9:08 am

Geordie wrote:Ben Bamber and Alex Groves at Sale Sam...both 6'9 and only 21.

Yeah they could come good yet as could Munga down at LI. It's gone a bit quiet on those three though. Bamber came off the bench Vs Tigers in the PRC with a more experienced Sale side at home labouring to victory over a young Tigers side who mauled over a couple of tries with a green starting pack (including Chessum Jnr). Lock is the kind of position that age can certainly help so they could all yet come good.

Tigers have another age grade lock Carmichael who looks to be an absolute giant, there's a picture of him stood next to Tom Manz who is 6ft8 post game is clearly taller. Don't know if he's any good yet and it's probably a couple of years before we'll know.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 04 Nov 2022, 9:11 am

Geordie wrote:Lawes is still suffering the symtoms of a hit in September i believe...thats a long time for just one hit...isnt it?

Depends on the hit. Marco van Staden missed the second half of last season for Tigers after one sizeable hit Vs LI. He's back in the Bok squad now and playing for the Bulls. It's when the symptoms wear off and how each person reacts is suppose. The important but is that the players are given all the time and medical support they need.

Hopefully Lawes is ok to resume playing at a later date and is just taking the time now to make sure all symptoms are fully gone before joining in with contact again.

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Post by hugehandoff Fri 04 Nov 2022, 11:24 am

England XV

15. Fredie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps)
14. Jack Nowell (VC) (Exeter Chiefs, 42 caps)
13. Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 46 caps)
12. Owen Farrell (C) (Saracens, 97 caps)
11. Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 12 caps)
10. Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 13 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 117 caps)
1. Ellis Genge (VC) (Bristol Bears, 39 caps)
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 37 caps)
3. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 52 caps)
4. Alex Coles (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
5. Jonny Hill (Sale Sharks, 15 caps)
6. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 58 caps)
7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 41 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 64 caps)

Finishers

16. Jack Singleton (Gloucester Rugby, 3 caps)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 70 caps)
18. Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps)
19. David Ribbans (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
20. Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, 14 caps)
21. Jack Willis (unattached, 4 caps)
22. Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, 3 caps)
23. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 48 caps)

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Post by hugehandoff Fri 04 Nov 2022, 11:25 am

Why am I immediately drawn to my dislikes before looking at the positives?

Youngs at 9, Itoje moved to 6, a slow back 3.....aagh

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Post by mountain man Fri 04 Nov 2022, 11:26 am

Wing cover? Assume Manu moves over assuming he stays on!

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Post by mountain man Fri 04 Nov 2022, 11:27 am

Maro 6 FFS.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 04 Nov 2022, 11:31 am

Didn't do that badly in my set of calls then.

Same old slow back row, probably won't suffer that much vs Argentina there. Same old at 9. Slow back 3 overall. I'm struggling to think when I've seen a slower team actually.

Should have more than enough to win but this sort of selection doesn't really fit with the words of Jones and wider RFU staff previously of excitement.

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Post by Geordie Fri 04 Nov 2022, 11:55 am

If Mateo Carrerras is picked he could have a field day the lack of pace is clear to see.

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Post by Geordie Fri 04 Nov 2022, 12:00 pm

i still expect a win mind.

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Post by nlpnlp Fri 04 Nov 2022, 12:02 pm

Other than the number on his back is Maro going to play any different than he does when he has 4 on his back - his greatest strength is his pain in the backside breakdown work? If Coles was at 6 would there be a different perception? England need to have a genuine International lineout jumper at 6 as Billy can't jump and Curry isn't that good - Willis doesn't seem to tick that box either.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 04 Nov 2022, 12:04 pm

nlpnlp wrote:Other than the number on his back is Maro going to play any different than he does when he has 4 on his back - his greatest strength is his pain in the backside breakdown work?  If Coles was at 6 would there be a different perception?  England need to have a genuine International lineout jumper at 6 as Billy can't jump and Curry isn't that good - Willis doesn't seem to tick that box either.  

Similar to with Lawes at 6 to be fair. Pack is too slow. Will be interesting to see the breakdown of lineout throws though.

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Post by Geordie Fri 04 Nov 2022, 12:06 pm

Not sure why he wont just go with WIllis mind.

The guys is class and a decent lineout option anyway.

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 04 Nov 2022, 12:11 pm

A 6-2 bench including a lock, when we already have three on the pitch.

Team just looks so stodgy to me, where is the top end gas in the backs? There isn't even a speedster on the bench.

If Manu breaks early (like he did against the Boks) we'll be on tenterhooks for the rest of the match hoping that none of the backthree gets injured.

I guess the positives are that we are going to have at least two big runners to play the Esterhuizen role for Smith.
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Post by mountain man Fri 04 Nov 2022, 12:14 pm

Maro can play 6 but why when there is a specialist available. I don't think he's quick enough around pitch, he's not slow but for me not fast enough. Yet another muddled selection XV from Jones.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 04 Nov 2022, 12:19 pm

mountain man wrote:Maro can play 6 but why when there is a specialist available. I don't think he's quick enough around pitch, he's not slow but for me not fast enough. Yet another muddled selection XV from Jones.

Coles has been playing 6 for Saints and as a team they aren't known for playing slow. If anything they play to fast. Just odd that it's Itoje wearing 6 and not Coles otherwise that selection is as expected.

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Post by mountain man Fri 04 Nov 2022, 12:28 pm

Exactly! As expected which is not great. Is this XV the team that could win RWC? I can't see it.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 04 Nov 2022, 12:29 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
mountain man wrote:Maro can play 6 but why when there is a specialist available. I don't think he's quick enough around pitch, he's not slow but for me not fast enough. Yet another muddled selection XV from Jones.

Coles has been playing 6 for Saints and as a team they aren't known for playing slow. If anything they play to fast. Just odd that it's Itoje wearing 6 and not Coles otherwise that selection is as expected.

Does their pack lack speed everywhere else? I think the fastest would be ours....then I'm thinking possibly Genge!
We're probably aiming to play more like Leicester than Northampton.

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Post by Rugby Fan Fri 04 Nov 2022, 12:56 pm

This line in the BBC report stood out.
Coles, whose mother and father are both vicars, can also play in the back row
https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/63513140

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Post by Rugby Fan Fri 04 Nov 2022, 1:00 pm

Cumbrian wrote:A 6-2 bench including a lock, when we already have three on the pitch

I wonder whether that's because Jones has noticed locks are drawing a lot of red and yellow cards these days.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 04 Nov 2022, 1:29 pm

His team didn't get up for the WC final and it haunts him. He's obsessed with combatting that.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Fri 04 Nov 2022, 8:17 pm

As soon as I saw Youngs and Simmonds in the squad I started to worry....

I can see the call of an extra lock in as Hill and Itoje aren't dominant line out options. Against Arg and SA, I think we need the option of a true 3rd jumper.

A lot riding on Manu for his annual 20mins in an England shirt and very little gas there. Hopefully Smith can bring some club form through.

I see people clamouring for Willis, but he's a true 7. I'm not sure if him and Curry would work against the bigger, better sides.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 04 Nov 2022, 8:28 pm

You wanted a lumbering 6 for years though geordie. Think Willis has played more at 6 than 7, strong carrier great tackler physical, but obviously amazing at the breakdown. He'll have his time this weekend.

Who breaks first Nowell or Tuilagi? When does van Poortvliet end up on the wing?

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 05 Nov 2022, 9:27 am

Geordie?

I've never called for a "lumbering 6" but I like a physical option who is strong in the line-out. Willis is neither of these really and he's definitely not a strong carrier. I like him as a player but as a 7 in a balanced backrow....although I'm unconvinced he's Int class tbh.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 05 Nov 2022, 10:23 am

Oops sorry sarge. Half watching the matchat that point He's a stronger carrier than Lawes so should be OK there!

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Post by bsando Sat 05 Nov 2022, 11:23 am

Predictions for the Autumn international predictor game have been extended until 1pm today. Good luck!

https://www.606v2.com/t70868-autumn-internationals-predictor

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 05 Nov 2022, 3:09 pm

If anyone ever moans about the tmo and refs in rugby union there's been a horrendous one in league just now. Refs blows incorrectly and early the England player dots down and they still end up giving it despite it being dead after the whistle.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 05 Nov 2022, 11:47 pm

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Maro actually plays lock whilst wearing 6. He did that when Lawes was first playing blindside under Jones. Itoje is regarded as a fantastic scrummaging lock.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Nov 2022, 1:47 pm

Well it's tipping it down so it's even more unlikely the balls getting beyond Youngs.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Nov 2022, 1:53 pm

Didn't realise Chieka had been splitting his time this week. Bit bizarre. Jones gets a bit of stick for doing work outside international windows....don't think he'd get away with popping off to coach Lebanon in another code the week of a game!

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Post by Duty281 Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:07 pm

Argentina are quite inconsistent. I don't think these conditions will be to their liking so I think it'll be quite one-sided in England's favour.

It's only Tuilagi's 47th cap today. If it weren't for injury he'd be past 100 by now!

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:22 pm

Need to get Deacon coaching out maul.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:23 pm

Real kick fest so far

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:28 pm

That's the tactics come rain or shine for about 2 to 3 years collapse.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:29 pm

Poor by Coles. Not looking international standard so far.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:34 pm

Bad decision that given how near the linesman is.

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Post by Heaf Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:36 pm

Yep saw it easily in real time so no idea what Mr MaGoo was doing on the line

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:36 pm

I wish we'd use the ball quicker from static scrums.

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Post by Heaf Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:37 pm

yep just get it out ...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:40 pm

Got to get some points on the board here.

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Post by Heaf Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:41 pm

Now watch them get pinged in the scrum ...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:42 pm

Get in.

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Post by Heaf Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:42 pm

OK maybe not - that will do for now

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:42 pm

Lol. Would rather be anywhere than that defensive line with Cokanasiga and Tuilagi both running at you.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:43 pm

And there's sunlight.

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Post by Heaf Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:44 pm

Would have been concerned if they didn't score after all that time in the red zone ...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:47 pm

Lol.

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Post by Mr Bounce Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:48 pm

Youngs ffs

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:49 pm

Lucky there. Off his feetvstraight away.

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Post by Heaf Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:49 pm

The touchline is receiving a lot of passes today

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Nov 2022, 2:49 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:Youngs ffs

You see Genges face? Priceless.

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