Wales International Rugby Summer 23 onwards.

First topic message reminder :

As the pages were going over 20 shortly, I’ve had to start a new thread. This is still the place to discuss the U20s, the women and everything else internationally. Updated RWC 23 squad below.

Forwards (25)

Corey Domachowski (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd– uncapped)
Kemsley Mathias (Scarlets – uncapped)
Nicky Smith (Ospreys / Gweilch– 42 caps)
Gareth Thomas (Ospreys /Gweilch – 21 caps)
Elliot Dee (Dragons / Dregiau– 41 caps)
Ryan Elias (Scarlets – 33 caps)
Dewi Lake (Ospreys / Gweilch – 8 caps)
Sam Parry (Ospreys / Gweilch – 5 caps)
Keiron Assiratti (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd– uncapped)
Tomas Francis (Ospreys / Gweilch – 71 caps)
Dillon Lewis (Harlequins – 50 caps)
Henry Thomas (Montpellier – uncapped)
Adam Beard (Ospreys / Gweilch– 46 caps)
Ben Carter (Dragons / Dregiau– 9 caps)
Rhys Davies (Ospreys / Gweilch – 2 caps)
Dafydd Jenkins (Exeter Chiefs / Caerwysg – 6 caps)
Will Rowlands (Dragons / Dregiau – 23 caps)
Christ Tshiunza (Exeter Chiefs / Caerwysg – 5 caps)
Teddy Williams (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd– uncapped)
Taine Basham (Dragons / Dregiau – 11 caps)
Taulupe Faletau (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – 100 caps)
Dan Lydiate (Dragons / Dregiau – 68 caps)
Jac Morgan (Ospreys / Gweilch – 9 caps)
Tommy Reffell (Leicester Tigers / Caerlŷr– 9 caps)
Aaron Wainwright (Dragons / Dregiau – 37 caps)

Backs (22)

Gareth Davies (Scarlets – 67 caps)
Kieran Hardy (Scarlets – 17 caps)
Tomos Williams (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – 45 caps)
Gareth Anscombe (unattached – 35 caps)
Dan Biggar (Toulon – 107 caps)
Sam Costelow (Scarlets – 2 caps)
Owen Williams (Ospreys / Gweilch – 7 caps)
Mason Grady (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – 2 caps)
Max Llewellyn (Gloucester Rugby / Caerloyw – uncapped)
George North (Ospreys / Gweilch – 113 caps)
Joe Roberts (Scarlets – uncapped)
Nick Tompkins (Saracens – 27 caps)
Johnny Williams (Scarlets – 5 caps)
Keiran Williams (Ospreys / Gweilch – uncapped)
Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – 49 caps)
Alex Cuthbert (Ospreys / Gweilch – 57 caps)
Rio Dyer (Dragons / Dregiau – 7 caps)
Cai Evans (Ospreys/ Gweilch – uncapped)
Leigh Halfpenny (unattached – 99 caps)
Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester Rugby / Caerloyw– 25 caps)
Tom Rogers (Scarlets – 2 caps)
Liam Williams (Cardiff Rugby/ Caerdydd – 84 caps)

I'll be honest before the tournament started I thought a quarter final would have been an amazing result. If he now pulls of a semi he has wildly exceeded my expectations. Granted there is a lot of rugby to play before that happens.......But Gatland has been a great recall appointment.

Welshmushroom wrote:I'll be honest before the tournament started I thought a quarter final would have been an amazing result.  If he now pulls of a semi he has wildly exceeded my expectations.   Granted there is a lot of rugby to play before that happens.......But Gatland has been a great recall appointment.

I have to agree. Gatland has raised the fitness levels - which we always knew he would - but he’s also cleared out a lot of the old guard and brought through some very talented players. Given the quality of the likely opposition, a semi-final seems very achievable and the test will be whether Wales have the game plan to win against one of the top sides. If there’s one weak spot it’s that a lot of tries so far have come from counter-attack, and at semi-final level whichever opponent you face is going to give away a lot fewer opportunities on the turnover.

Poorfour wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:I'll be honest before the tournament started I thought a quarter final would have been an amazing result.  If he now pulls of a semi he has wildly exceeded my expectations.   Granted there is a lot of rugby to play before that happens.......But Gatland has been a great recall appointment.

I have to agree. Gatland has raised the fitness levels - which we always knew he would - but he’s also cleared out a lot of the old guard and brought through some very talented players. Given the quality of the likely opposition, a semi-final seems very achievable and the test will be whether Wales have the game plan to win against one of the top sides. If there’s one weak spot it’s that a lot of tries so far have come from counter-attack, and at semi-final level whichever opponent you face is going to give away a lot fewer opportunities on the turnover.

Didn't he select them in the 6N and then have them retire at the end of the season?

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Poorfour wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:I'll be honest before the tournament started I thought a quarter final would have been an amazing result.  If he now pulls of a semi he has wildly exceeded my expectations.   Granted there is a lot of rugby to play before that happens.......But Gatland has been a great recall appointment.

I have to agree. Gatland has raised the fitness levels - which we always knew he would - but he’s also cleared out a lot of the old guard and brought through some very talented players. Given the quality of the likely opposition, a semi-final seems very achievable and the test will be whether Wales have the game plan to win against one of the top sides. If there’s one weak spot it’s that a lot of tries so far have come from counter-attack, and at semi-final level whichever opponent you face is going to give away a lot fewer opportunities on the turnover.

Didn't he select them in the 6N and then have them retire at the end of the season?

I believe some (Well, AWJ for sure) retired because they were told that they were not going to get picked for the WC. So the 'clearing out' bit was Gatland telling them they're out. And then they retired themselves (AWJ). Not sure about Webb (more to do with the overseas contract I think) and Tipuric (still don't know what happened there). I think that was it wasn't it?

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Poorfour wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:I'll be honest before the tournament started I thought a quarter final would have been an amazing result.  If he now pulls of a semi he has wildly exceeded my expectations.   Granted there is a lot of rugby to play before that happens.......But Gatland has been a great recall appointment.

I have to agree. Gatland has raised the fitness levels - which we always knew he would - but he’s also cleared out a lot of the old guard and brought through some very talented players. Given the quality of the likely opposition, a semi-final seems very achievable and the test will be whether Wales have the game plan to win against one of the top sides. If there’s one weak spot it’s that a lot of tries so far have come from counter-attack, and at semi-final level whichever opponent you face is going to give away a lot fewer opportunities on the turnover.

Didn't he select them in the 6N and then have them retire at the end of the season?

I believe some (Well, AWJ for sure) retired because they were told that they were not going to get picked for the WC.  So the 'clearing out' bit was Gatland telling them they're out.  And then they retired themselves (AWJ).  Not sure about Webb (more to do with the overseas contract I think) and Tipuric (still don't know what happened there).  I think that was it wasn't it?

There were rumours at the time that Gatland had selected his captain & as Morgan was one of them I think Tipuric knew he wouldn't be starting every game.

From the position of a relatively distant observer, it looked like Gatland (like Borthwick) went into the 6N not caring too much about the outcome but wanting to evaluate where the squad were, and (less like Borthwick) by a fariy early point in camp had given some of his faithful old guard an indication that the writing was on the wall, and gave them a chance to retire gracefully.

It may have been more ruthless than that - he has certainly burned bridges in the past (whatever happened with Adam Jones, it's clear that they're very unlikely to work together again).

However it's happened, he's done an impressive job of turning them around, albeit against a surprisingly poor Australian side and with a bit of luck against Fiji - but then Gatland has has a bit of a track record of getting the rub of the green in close games.

Both England and Wales are on an upward trajectory. You couldn't have predicted it before the world cup. I was hopeful we'd get better, but Wales have improved beyond that - they look so sure of what they're doing when sticking to the game plan. It's Gatlandball at a higher level.

Dewi Lake is captain for Georgia. Apparently they have a few injuries to their backs. I expect it might be a difficult opening quarter, with them just defending and spoiling. They would have done a lot of homework for this and probably still fancy their chances.

Wales: L Williams; Rees-Zammit, North, Tompkins, Dyer; Anscombe, T Williams; G Thomas, Lake (capt), Francis, Rowlands, D Jenkins, Wainwright, Reffell, Faletau.

Replacements: Dee, Smith, H Thomas, Tshiunza, Basham, G Davies, Costelow, Grady.

Glad we have gone strong(ish) for this. We normally field a second string team for the weaker fixture of an AI campaign & usually labour to a win or lose the game.

After an impressive performance against Australia, I would love us to put a big score on Georgia here as this isn't something we do & would really lay a marker down ahead of the QF's. Would also like to get the match, or 4 try BP at the least, in the bag by half time.

Yep, glad we’ve gone strong too.

Think we will win, but I’m not expecting too much now. Hope we give the back three some ball, as it could be potentially lethal.

Georgia played very well againgst Fiji and if they reproduce that kind of performance they will give Wales a decent game.

I am sure they will want to leave this WC with some sense of pride in their performances.

BigGee wrote:Georgia played very well againgst Fiji and if they reproduce that kind of performance they will give Wales a decent game.

I am sure they will want to leave this WC with some sense of pride in their performances.

The only thing I can see being an issue is they have a few knocks & injuries so they're a bit bare in certain positions but those coming in must be champing at the bit to get some gametime.

The danger here, as often is with Wales, is going in as firm favourites and not performing well with that favourites tag weighing us down. In fairness, that usually happens when we completely change the team. This time it's a pretty strong team with lots of established combos so should be OK (fingers crossed). I expect Georgia to make life fairly uncomfortable for us though. But it would be typical Wales to do the hard work and then lose a game that should be very winnable!

Another issue might be players holding back a bit to try to avoid injuries, with an eye on the 1/4s. I'm hopeful that they won't. But might be at the back of their minds. We need them to go full gas and not give Georgia any freebies. Give them the respect they deserve. They beat us last time, after all, so I'm sure there won't be any complacency.

The boys should be focused. I expect a bonus point win, won't be easy as they should be up for it.

Anscombe dropped out in the warm up. Hopefully just a groin tweak, but his reaction doesn’t suggest so.

Choker for him. I watched the S4C video of how hard he worked to come back and he had a great chance of starting in the QF. Everything crossed for him.

Costelow starts and Biggar on the bench now. I would maybe have protected Biggar for this.

As you say hope it's not bad and he's fit for next week.
He's a cracking player but has had some rubbish luck with injuries.
I like what I have seen from costelow so far

That's rotten luck - his reaction suggested it was pretty bad unfortunately ...

Williams is such a super attacking fullback. He's also a bit 'football' with how he's complaining to the ref.

mmm - not sure about that being flat ...

Biggest handbags we've seen for a while ...

Now he's YC'd the wrong player

Fixed it

Guess he must have got downward pressure on that ... replays weren't very helpful

Not as entertaining as most Wales matches but they're looking good for a semi now as you have to back them to beat Argentina or Japan ...

Heaf wrote:Now he's YC'd the wrong player

He repeatedly said red 20 and Basham just ignored him. He was lucky it wasn't red given it was a headlock and then a swinging arm. Georgian winger was unlucky, not sure what he did wrong other than be unhappy with being strangled.

Two very suspect tries for Wales that have sadly decided the game. Shame as it was starting to get interesting as a neutral when Georgia scored.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Heaf wrote:Now he's YC'd the wrong player

He repeatedly said red 20 and Basham just ignored him. He was lucky it wasn't red given it was a headlock and then a swinging arm. Georgian winger was unlucky, not sure what he did wrong other than be unhappy with being strangled.

Two very suspect tries for Wales that have sadly decided the game. Shame as it was starting to get interesting as a neutral when Georgia scored.

Also missed a potential fingers around the eye area and a headbutt. Raynal was very poor. Allowed them to flop all over everything first half.

I’m doubting when people say they’re neutral when Wales are playing tbh

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Heaf wrote:Now he's YC'd the wrong player

He repeatedly said red 20 and Basham just ignored him. He was lucky it wasn't red given it was a headlock and then a swinging arm. Georgian winger was unlucky, not sure what he did wrong other than be unhappy with being strangled.

Two very suspect tries for Wales that have sadly decided the game. Shame as it was starting to get interesting as a neutral when Georgia scored.

The TMO must surely have seen downward pressure to give that, although none of the replays we were shown were much help - unless on-field was try and there was nothing conclusive to disallow it. I did think the pass for the one before was suspect, especially from the further out shot on the replay.

Just saw the close-up in the after match - looked like he got a fingertip to it which was just enough for the try

Heaf wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Heaf wrote:Now he's YC'd the wrong player

He repeatedly said red 20 and Basham just ignored him. He was lucky it wasn't red given it was a headlock and then a swinging arm. Georgian winger was unlucky, not sure what he did wrong other than be unhappy with being strangled.

Two very suspect tries for Wales that have sadly decided the game. Shame as it was starting to get interesting as a neutral when Georgia scored.

The TMO must surely have seen downward pressure to give that, although none of the replays we were shown were much help - unless on-field was try and there was nothing conclusive to disallow it.   I did think the pass for the one before was suspect, especially from the further out shot on the replay.

Looked like he knocked it on more than grounded it. Not entirely sure why the TMO wasn't used and given more time. The pass for the last try was erm flat as well. You've got the technology, why not use it?

To be fair Wales were the better team, it's just as a neutral you want to see the underdog get a fair crack and keep it tight.

Good summary from Sam W - Wales good for the win but not quite fully at the races today

Must be hard to try and get through that game and be fit for the QFs. Already picked up more injuries.

If Faletau is alright, I don’t think we will see Basham in a squad again.

If the ball is in contact with the ground I think any sort of downward pressure on the top of the ball is enough? Not sure it has to be completely perpendicular? I think that one was probably OK.

I believe that if the ball is on the ground you don't actually need downward pressure just to be in contact with it.
I could be wrong but I'm sure the whole "downward pressure" thing is a bit of myth

RiscaGame wrote:Must be hard to try and get through that game and be fit for the QFs. Already picked up more injuries.

If Faletau is alright, I don’t think we will see Basham in a squad again.

Now being reported that Faletau has broken his arm and is out for the rest of the tournament

carpet baboon wrote:I believe that if the ball is on the ground you don't actually need downward pressure just to be in contact with it.
I could be wrong but I'm sure the whole "downward pressure" thing is a bit of myth

Yeah, that rings a bell. Seem to remember people discussing downwards pressure on here over the years and others correcting them that it just needs to be contact. All to do with whether the ball is on the ground or not. On the ground just contact needed I think. Bouncing ball off the ground then downwards pressure needed obviously otherwise it’ll likely be a knock on or no try if separation from the hand in the act of scoring the try.

Wainwright to 8 isn’t as good, but not too bad to play Argentina or Japan. Further than that is a problem. I just don’t know who you can play 6. I think Lydiate, but wish we could’ve looked at Morgan 6, Reffell 7

Poorfour wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:Must be hard to try and get through that game and be fit for the QFs. Already picked up more injuries.

If Faletau is alright, I don’t think we will see Basham in a squad again.

Now being reported that Faletau has broken his arm and is out for the rest of the tournament

Nooooooo! Terrible news if so. And he’s not long back from a long injury. Gutted for him and Wales. Probably means our best back row would be Wainwright to 8, Jac Morgan 7 and Lydiate or Tshuinza at 6??? Who else can play 8? Jac Morgan any good there with someone else to 7 and Wainwright staying 6? Not ideal overall. 8 is a position of a bit of weakness for us now.

Sorry, cross-posted with the same queries Risca!

carpet baboon wrote:I believe that if the ball is on the ground you don't actually need downward pressure just to be in contact with it.
I could be wrong but I'm sure the whole "downward pressure" thing is a bit of myth

The ball can be grounded in in-goal:

By holding it and touching the ground with it; or

By pressing down on it with a hand or hands, arm or arms, or the front of the player’s body from waist to neck.

Awful news on Anscombe and Faletau. Jac Morgan might go to 8.

Congratulations to Wales on topping their group and completing a clean sweep. Surpassed my expectations as previously alluded to.

Ah man. So bad for Faletau. Still such a good player.

Wainwright to 8, which is almost what we thought happen, when we were not sure if Taulupe would make the WC. Wainwright was pretty quiet today, but it depends where we go now for a backrow replacement, I guess.

I think Gatland is going to Morgan 6, Reffell 7 and wainwright 8. Not sure on the sub. I would say Basham, but Gatland hates players that have a misdeamour, even if there’s potentially a gouge etc.

Warren Gatland wrote: I think we can be pretty proud of what we’ve done as a nation in the last four World Cups. We’ve won 14 out of 16 games in our pool.

Something for those who like to push this easy draw narrative to dwell on. Wales always find a way through pools under Gatland.

RiscaGame wrote:

Warren Gatland wrote: I think we can be pretty proud of what we’ve done as a nation in the last four World Cups. We’ve won 14 out of 16 games in our pool.

Something for those who like to push this easy draw narrative to dwell on. Wales always find a way through pools under Gatland.

Both can be equally true at the same time, Gatland has a great record at world cups, and this year your group, relatively speaking wasn't the hardest.

Doesn't take away from your wins. You play what's Infront of you and move on to the next.

Who would you rather have next out of interest? Argentina or Japan?

Before today, Argentina. I think we may be a bit better defensively than Japan were though.

Hardy called up to the squad. I had a feeling he might do that, so we aren’t so light on 9 cover. We are fairly well covered for backrow options still.

We never had the most difficult group, but our group wasn’t easy when you consider where we were before the tournament. Certain head to heads counting against us in Aus and Georgia, and even Portugal were good. I expected Aus to improve but they’ve got worse. Wales have got better, which I was hopeful of. On form I think we are better than Argentina, but annoyingly I think they’ll cause us problems.

Wales team to face Argentina: L Williams; Rees-Zammit, North, Tompkins, Adams; Biggar, G Davies; G Thomas, Elias, Francis, Rowlands, Beard, Morgan (capt), Reffell, Wainwright.

Replacements: Lake, Domachowski, D Lewis, D Jenkins, Tshiunza, T Williams, Costelow, Dyer.

There must be some concern over a couple back 3 players if Dyer gets to the bench. Saying that, Grady only tends to see the tryline no matter how far out he is, and it was really poor how he isolated himself against Georgia, IMO. The replacements are good, just not sure about Lewis - he has had little game time but also didn’t impress.

I've compiled a list to the best of my knowledge, of our players outside of Wales. It includes those capped and also those WQ. I've looked at England first but haven't bothered with the championship teams.

England

Exeter: Dafydd Jenkins (lock), Christ Tshiunza (lock/back row), Kane James (Back row), Oli Burrows, Iestyn Harris (hooker), Orson James (scrum-half), Iwan Jenkins (fly-half), Joe Hawkins (fly-half, centre),  Dan John, Immanuel Feyi-Waboso (wing).

Harlequins: Jarrod Evans (fly-half), Dillon Lewis (TH prop), Bryn Bradley (centre), Jonny Green (lock), Seb Driscoll (back row).

Bath: Louie Hennssey (centre), Ieuan Davies (scrum-half), Ioan Emmanuel, Archie Griffin (prop).

Saracens: Nick Tompkins (centre), Aled Davies (scrum-half).

Bristol: Callum Sheedy, Jac Lloyd (fly-half), Dan Thomas (back-row), Nick English (prop).

Gloucester: Louis Rees-Zammit (wing), Lloyd Evans (fly-half), Max Llewelyn (centre).

Leicester: Tommy Reffell, Olly Cracknell (back row), Osian Thomas (lock).

Newcastle: Iwan Stephens (wing), Josh Thomas (fly-half).

Sale: Rouban Birch (back-row).

France Top 14

Montpellier: Henry Thomas (TH prop)

Racing Metro: Will Rowlands (lock), Regan Grace (wing).

Toulon: Dan Biggar (fly-half).

France Pro D2

Provence: Tomas Francis (TH prop).

Biarritz: Rhys Webb (scrum half), Tyler Morgan (centre).

Brive: Ross Moriarty (back row).

Grenoble: Sam Davies (fly-half).

Regan Grace isn't with Racing, I think he left a little while ago. He is apparently training with Bath.

Japan - Listed all of them, not sure which league their clubs' are in.

Gareth Anscombe (fly-half), Liam Williams (back 3), Hadleigh Parkes, Tiaan Thomas-Wheeler (centre), Michael Collins (centre/back 3), Jake Ball, Cory Hill (lock).

New Zealand

Rhys Patchell (fly-half), Leigh Halfpenny (full back).