Glasgow and Edinburgh 30 - Starting the new season with 2 wins - Long may it continue

First topic message reminder :

Well both Scotland's pro teams got off the mark with a W this weekend, though probably fair to say that Glasgow's was slightly more pleasing on the eye!

Still not to be sniffed at and probably a while since it last happened.

A good omen for the season, let's hope so, though early season games are not always a predictor of longer term performance. Both sides still got plenty of players to bring back into the fold and a lot of improvement to make.

Roll on 2023/24!

We'll Glasgow have crashed and burned and it is largely their own fault

Terrible stuff

Oh dear. Just checked bbc reporting and looks like another collapse in SA. It is a tough place to go and play.

We have just gone side to side the whole game and Lions cover it easily

Then we make a mistake and Lions score, it has been the most frustrating game to watch

To be fair to the Lions they are pretty good at home. They have turned over some big teams including SA rivals at home. They always had this in them. Their issue this season has been they struggled to keep their form going for larger periods. They have been much better at home this season than the previous 2.

Crikey I didnt realize Lions had a red card as well. Fair play to them as they took every chance in that second half. But I think Glasgow listening to Steyn know they didnt play well and need to be better than that once they go into the playoffs,

Well Glasgow's capitulation is also bad news for Edinburgh with the Lions now in contention to take over the last knockout spots. Glasgow's SA trip has certainly been a disaster with them now in 4th. Annoyingly Ulster beat Leinster so they've pulled ahead

Benneton lost by got a LBP meaning 3 teams tied on 49 with 3 spaces available.

We really pooped on the sleeping furniture this week.
Yes, I am writing this from work.
Just shows that the winner of this league needs consistency more than just about anything.
Is Glasgow's participation at the knock out stages now in danger?

George Carlin wrote:We really pooped on the sleeping furniture this week.
Yes, I am writing this from work.
Just shows that the winner of this league needs consistency more than just about anything.
Is Glasgow's participation at the knock out stages now in danger?

No, but our home advantage is now unlikely to go past the round of 8.

We are also likely to get a much harder draw in that round as well.

Things have become considerably more difficult for us.

Once again when the chips were down, we did not deliver. That game was very winnable and had we won it, we would likely have topped the league. Instead we mist likely finish 4th now.

Most disappointing, where I felt most let down was with the lack of leadership and coordination. At half-back George Horne tries to move everything quickly, but isn't really controlling.  Duncan Weir I thought would take control of the game, with his experience and kicking prowess, unfortunately he too tried too hard and the interception was a mess up.  Kyle Rowe is a player I rate and like a lot, but yesterday nearly every serious error saw him involved somewhere, not always the main culprit but between not looking inside to pass to Horne, over-running the kick where they counter attacked and scored, over-running the line for the intercept, never looking likely to link and not touching down, oh dear. So missed Cancelliere coming on for him. There were also 2 bad lineout misses in their 22, maybe we should revert to kicking penalties (especially as Weir's goal kicking was good).

What happened to our defensive alignment and cover? We were all at sea in the 2nd half.

Our attack looked good at first but soon became predictable and easy to defend against. Better not talk about the lack of precision with the passing, oh well.

Al Kellock was never our best 2nd row, but he gave all and we missed someone with his leadership capacity.

Overall we are not there yet, some improvement and this year it's been great to see some new faces.  With the return of Jones, Smith, Gray, and then Hastings and the development of the new guys we will be better next year.  Would love to see us go all the way this year but unlikely now - stranger things have happened though...

I said earlier on in the season that we were a good team short of a FH and nothing yesterday changed my mind on that.

Aimless side to side running, all it achieved was to tire us out. We needed a midfield playmaker badly who could bring a bit of vision and composure.

We were playing against 14 players for half the match but you would never have known that.

I agree on Rowe as well, who has had a good season, but should have scored that try a bit more clearly and not have ignored the pass to Horne when he was clean away.

Score those 2 tries and it was a different game.

The Edinburgh performance was (despite the result) probably one of our better ones this season.  I think it was also largely helped by Munster having a bit of an off day and playing with the sun in their eyes in the first half.

Some fairly interesting chat came up at the game from ‘source’

Velacott isn’t favoured (in terms of being picked, not as a person) because he goes off plan too much.  He doesn’t play in the way the team are being coached, which depending on your viewpoint could be a good or bad thing, but apparently the team are frustrated as they are obviously trying to play in a certain way and if he’s going against it, then it makes everyone’s life harder as they are not set up to succeed.

Hogg – allegedly (count the number of times I say this to protect myself), the whole issues which led to the breakup of his marriage is a drop in the ocean, the boy is allegedly a serial sh*gger and this is potentially just the first time he was caught, or the final straw, not sure which.  Also ‘beergate’ was allegedly 100% down to him. He organised and instigated it and if he wasn't capt. then it likely wouldn't have happened.  Finn took most of the blowback because they were trying to protect the status of captain (not specifically Hogg, just the role of captain) and as Finn was a snr player he got most of the blame.  Hogg is allegedly not liked by his former teammates.  Which I’ve been told repeatedly over the years, so it’s not a recent thing following his media attention. I think he might have believed his hype as a youngster and it went to his head and acted like a pr*ck since.

Healy – Is slow.  Apparently in tests he’s lagging behind pretty much all the others including most of the forwards when it comes to speed.  Also, the SRU (Scotland and Edinburgh) having now seen him up close have realised that he’s not the saviour he was initially badged as and have concluded he’s overrated. They’ve realised he can’t get a backline moving (which we’ve seen) and he doesn’t have the game management to get us playing in the right areas of the pitch. He’s not a terrible player and his kicking from the tee is generally good, but his all-round game is not of the standard expected.

Ritchie – Is exceptionally focussed and maybe slightly* insane.  Chat is he’s maybe a bit extreme and incredibly focussed on his rugby. I don’t think much of that is breaking news, but he loves a scrap and goes full on in training.  I’m told he’s a brilliant asset to the team (which again I think we’re seeing in his recent form) but he can’t be captain as it goes against his natural instinct to basically be a d**k and wind up the opposition as much as possible.

*I’m downplaying this quite a bit

Fascinating stuff! I always said Ritchie was a hot head early on in his career but he has relaxed a bit. I mean Fagerson is another who is always starting a brawl and that seems to apply to any team he’s playing against. 

Surprised to hear all that about Healy. I just wonder how much of that is fixable through fitness and strength training? If there’s one position in the backline that doesn’t require strong pace it’s probably standoff. It would open the door for Hastings who is a very slippery attacking player. I’m still fairly positive about Healy though, he’s adding something different to Scotland and has worked his way up through a different unions system. Compared with others who have donned the Edinburgh standoff jersey I think he’s doing a decent job. Still, it’s only been one season. 

Hogg… I’m not even going to bother.

On Healy, the consensus from our chats was that, as you say, speed can be mitigated.  He doesn’t need to be quick around the park if he can get the ball moving out to players who are quick, or can dictate where the game happens from the boot, but he’s not managing to get his backline working and he doesn’t really ping the ball around the park to get us playing in dangerous areas.  On the occasions he does, he isn’t then capable of moving the ball about to stretch the defence when we’re in the opposition 22. Which I think has been evident in a lot of Edinburgh’s ‘attacking’ plays this season, where we get into the 22 and the ball rarely moves any wider than a couple of metres from its starting point. Which at times can be fine, but it’s getting to the point where opposition teams needn’t bother defending the wide channels as the ball is almost certainly not going there.

All of this can potentially be improved by coaching and more gametime, but as I say the SRU are now of the opinion that he was perhaps overrated when he came over and he’s not the player they were expecting to see, at least not yet.

EWT Spoons wrote:On Healy, the consensus from our chats was that, as you say, speed can be mitigated.  He doesn’t need to be quick around the park if he can get the ball moving out to players who are quick, or can dictate where the game happens from the boot, but he’s not managing to get his backline working and he doesn’t really ping the ball around the park to get us playing in dangerous areas.  On the occasions he does, he isn’t then capable of moving the ball about to stretch the defence when we’re in the opposition 22. Which I think has been evident in a lot of Edinburgh’s ‘attacking’ plays this season, where we get into the 22 and the ball rarely moves any wider than a couple of metres from its starting point. Which at times can be fine, but it’s getting to the point where opposition teams needn’t bother defending the wide channels as the ball is almost certainly not going there.

All of this can potentially be improved by coaching and more gametime, but as I say the SRU are now of the opinion that he was perhaps overrated when he came over and he’s not the player they were expecting to see, at least not yet.

I wonder if we're missing Kinghorn more than we first thought. He's such a danger player across all aspects but he's also a ball player who can make things happen from first receiver or the wider channels. Goosen has had a wonderful season but he's very much a road runner, counter attacking head down and go type runner. He basically plays as an individual (I've rarely seen him create space and pass to Duhan for example, like Kinghorn does)

RDW wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:On Healy, the consensus from our chats was that, as you say, speed can be mitigated.  He doesn’t need to be quick around the park if he can get the ball moving out to players who are quick, or can dictate where the game happens from the boot, but he’s not managing to get his backline working and he doesn’t really ping the ball around the park to get us playing in dangerous areas.  On the occasions he does, he isn’t then capable of moving the ball about to stretch the defence when we’re in the opposition 22. Which I think has been evident in a lot of Edinburgh’s ‘attacking’ plays this season, where we get into the 22 and the ball rarely moves any wider than a couple of metres from its starting point. Which at times can be fine, but it’s getting to the point where opposition teams needn’t bother defending the wide channels as the ball is almost certainly not going there.

All of this can potentially be improved by coaching and more gametime, but as I say the SRU are now of the opinion that he was perhaps overrated when he came over and he’s not the player they were expecting to see, at least not yet.

I wonder if we're missing Kinghorn more than we first thought. He's such a danger player across all aspects but he's also a ball player who can make things happen from first receiver or the wider channels. Goosen has had a wonderful season but he's very much a road runner, counter attacking head down and go type runner. He basically plays as an individual (I've rarely seen him create space and pass to Duhan for example, like Kinghorn does)

I’d say you’re right on missing Kinghorn, not specifically related to Healy’s performances, but as a player in general.  He was much derided by some supporters, but his all-round skillset is brilliant which is probably why Toulouse wanted him and continue to play him.  I think any team would miss a player of his calibre. I also hadn’t thought about Goosen not really passing but you’re right, I can’t recall him setting up a player on his shoulder, but then I’m not sure how often he has a player on his shoulder to offload/pass to.

Matt Scott had his sendoff at Leicester at the weekend. He was definitely well like by the fans and players down there.

It's a shame his Scotland career never really took off long-term after a brilliant first few years (40 caps still pretty good!), but he's had a very good career nonetheless.

I'm sad to see Scott go. He's been Tigers best centre this season. He's just had a very solid 4 years in general though. He was a touch up and down in his first season when switching between 12 and 13. Once he settled playing mainly at 13, he's just been a rock though. So good defensively in a tough position and gets over the gain line well.

I'd have been in favour of keeping him for another couple of seasons. Despite being 33 his performance hasn't declined at all. Rumours are he wanted to head back up to Edinburgh for personal rather than rugby reasons though. I heard that separately from a usually reliable Tigers and a Edinburgh ST holder a wee bit back.

A good player and by all accounts a good fella as well. Hopefully he succeeds without whatever comes next be it rugby or elsewhere.

I'd agree with KC. Scott has been a reliable presence at Tigers offering a bit of everything from the 13 channel. If either of the Scottish teams need an experienced OC for next season then he'll be a great pick up. If he wasn't thinking of life post rugby I'm sure Tigers would have happily kept him on for a bit longer.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I'd agree with KC. Scott has been a reliable presence at Tigers offering a bit of everything from the 13 channel. If either of the Scottish teams need an experienced OC for next season then he'll be a great pick up. If he wasn't thinking of life post rugby I'm sure Tigers would have happily kept him on for a bit longer.

Apparently Edinburgh tried, but I think he's hanging up his boots. He's a qualified lawyer (in Scots law) so he might be thinking it's time to start his post rugby career.

Always liked him as a player, think we get too stuck up on positions, he could play 12 or 13. Would have liked to have seen him and Alex Dunbar paired together (especially when Mark Bennet was injured). Glad he's set for the next phase of his life and he turns out to be a good/successful lawyer. Best of luck to him.

He is doing an interview with Mark Palmer in the Times tomorrow, so we'll probably hear a bit more about what he will be up to then

Any news on if Sordoni is heading out at Glasgow?

With Richardson and Schickerling coming in I would have thought 2 tighthead props must be leaving. We know Pieretto has left but I'm guessing Sordoni must be heading out as well?

When are Glasgow due to release the news on the players going? Are they holding the news until the playoffs are concluded?

They usually do it before the last home game, which will be the final round v Zebra

At least the leavers get a bit of a send off then

Ross Thomson move to Edinburgh confirmed. Wonder if he'll actually get picked...

RDW wrote:Ross Thomson move to Edinburgh confirmed. Wonder if he'll actually get picked...

Only on a 1 year contract, so he has got something to prove. Still it is a move that makes sense. Glasgow have strengthened at FH with Hastings coming in and Edinburgh are actually really light in that position. They would be up a gum tree now if Healy gets injured. He really should get some game time and we can see what kind of a player he really is, which is something that still remains a little bit unclear.

For all the moans about BH, he has at least proved to be pretty robust. He has played every game this season I think, which is no mean feet, but would be crazy to be relied upon.

BigGee wrote:

RDW wrote:Ross Thomson move to Edinburgh confirmed. Wonder if he'll actually get picked...

Only on a 1 year contract, so he has got something to prove. Still it is a move that makes sense. Glasgow have strengthened at FH with Hastings coming in and Edinburgh are actually really light in that position. They would be up a gum tree now if Healy gets injured. He really should get some game time and we can see what kind of a player he really is, which is something that still remains a little bit unclear.

For all the moans about BH, he has at least proved to be pretty robust. He has played every game this season I think, which is no mean feet, but would be crazy to be relied upon.

BH hasn't just played every game, but until he was subbed off with 4 minutes to go 2 weeks ago he'd played every minute of the URC too!

Brilliant to see another player moving over to Edinburgh. A good career move for Thompson, I’m sure he will get a lot of game time.

Sharks win the Challenge Cup which means if Edinburgh finish 8th we'll still miss out on Champions Cup qualification.

You know it's gonna happen now....

Well Blair Kinghorn is now a Champions Cup winner, and kicked 4 penalties in doing so!

At the start of the season when he ran out for Edinburgh I bet he never thought in his wildest dreams he'd end it this way!

The biggest surprise for me was that he managed to become their starting fullback and kicker. Toulouse have quite a clever strategy in having kinghorn take on the kicking duties first and then Ramos when he is subbed on. Worked perfectly yesterday. Probably relieves the pressure for both players. They have an incredible team.

Didn't expect Kinghorn to be a starter once N'tmack and Ramos both fit but he is and deservedly so. His form this last few weeks has been consistent (historically his weakness) and I'm pleased he's shown me to be wrong. Hope he can bring this quality to Scotland now.

Am delighted for the mighty Blarehorn. He's done a couple of podcast interviews which are on YouTube and he comes over like he did on the Netflix programme - quite self-effacing, articulate, self-deprecating and likeable. The Anti-Hogg, if you will. He doesn't really believe that he's there either but it's absolutely unarguable that he's there on merit and he deserved his place in that matchday side at the weekend.

Goosen had a moon boot on at the Edinburgh Rugby awards the other night, I suspect we might not see him this weekend.

Which makes an already difficult task of getting the required points out of the game, that bit harder.

With Darcy, Boff and Paterson already out, I think we might see Dean on the wing and maybe Bennett at FB. Struggling to think of who else we can put back there.

Cameron Scott at fullback? He's basically all we've got left.

Duhan and Currie on the wings.

Getting away from Rugby for a moment

Some of you with longish memories, may remember that 7 years ago, after my dad died from Bowel Cancer, I did a bike ride from Lands End to John O Groats to raise money in his memory for Bowel Cancer UK

Last year unfortunately, I also lost my mum, this time to Lung Cancer.

Mum was a fit and well 85 year old, completely independent and active and did not smoke. Lung Cancer is often labelled as a smokers cancer, but you may or not be aware that over 20% of cases are now of non-smokers and those numbers are rising. It is still an awful cancer to get, with the average time from diagnosis to death being 18 months, which is pretty much exactly what mum got.

So this June, I am planning on doing another ride, this time from Cape Wrath to Dover, the opposite diagonal to LEJOG. I am also planning to take in the places where mum lived, in both Scotland and England, as well as Inverchaolain, on the Cowell Peninsula, where she was born. A place I have never been, largely as it is in the middle of nowhere. These detours will take the ride well over the 1000 mile mark, so it will be even longer than last time.

I am doing this ride for The Roy Castle Lung Cancer Foundation, the UK's stand alone Lung Cancer Charity.

Some of the older posters may, like me, remember Roy Castle from your childhood watching the Record Breakers. He was a non smoker who developed Lung Cancer in his 50s and did an awful lot to publicise the dangers of passive smoking, which eventually lead to the legislation that we all take for granted today. This is a good charity, recommended to me by the respiratory physicians where I work and any donations will be used wisely.

https://www.justgiving.com/page/grahame-dick-1715528190885


If anyone is able to support me in this endeavour, I would be extremely grateful


This will be my June taken care of and in the unlikely event of Glasgow getting to the final, I won't be able to go this time!


Thank you in advance

BigGee

Great stuff Biggee - that's a hell of an effort for a great cause. Keep us updated on how you're getting on!

RDW wrote:Great stuff Biggee - that's a hell of an effort for a great cause. Keep us updated on how you're getting on!

Thanks RDW

I certainly will be updating and hopefully you can all enjoy the ride with me one way or another.

If Glasgow and Edinburgh are both out of the knockouts, there won't be much else to talk about anyway.

I leave London a week monday, even getting to Cape Wrath is a challenge

Day 1. Train to Inverness

Day 2, Train to Lairg followed by a 55 mile bike ride to Durness

Day 3. Ferry (a small boat with an outboard motor) over the Kyle and a 12 mile ride along a track to the lighthouse (built by the Stevenson family of Robert Louis fame)

There are also a few caveats in that the boat does not run if the weather is sh*t, which has been known up there. Cape Wrath is also a military firing range and on certain days the RAF/Navy are bombing the cr#p out of it, so they reasonably enough, won't let you cross on those days.

Anyway, hopefully all my stars line up and I can make it out there, otherwise I'll be starting from Durness!

Wish me luck!

Anyway, getting back to rugby. Warriors putting out a strong team for the final league game v Zebra

Good to see Ritchie Gray and Huw Jones back in time for the play offs.




Glasgow Warriors team to face Zebre Parma at Scotstoun, Friday 31 May, kick-off 7.35pm. You can watch the match live on Premier Sports, or follow the action in our Live Match Centre at glasgowwarriors.org.

1 Jamie Bhatti (102)
2 Johnny Matthews (69)
3 Zander Fagerson (145)
4 Max Williamson (16)
5 Richie Gray (111)
6 Matt Fagerson (107)
7 Rory Darge (44)
8 Jack Dempsey (46)

9 Jamie Dobie (64)
10 Duncan Weir (149)
11 Sebastian Cancelliere
12 Sione Tuipulotu (C) (51)
13 Huw Jones (67)
14 Facundo Cordero (3)
15 Kyle Rowe (16)

Replacements

16 Gregor Hiddleston (8)
17 Nathan McBeth (39)
18 Oli Kebble (101)
19 Scott Cummings (122)
20 Euan Ferrie (17)
21 George Horne (115)
22 Ross Thompson (47)
23 Tom Jordan (46)

Unavailable for selection: Fraser Brown (knee), JP du Preez (knee), Stafford McDowall (hand), Alex Samuel (head), Ollie Smith (knee), Kyle Steyn (knee), George Turner (foot), Sione Vailanu (knee).

BigGee wrote:Getting away from Rugby for a moment

Some of you with longish memories, may remember that 7 years ago, after my dad died from Bowel Cancer, I did a bike ride from Lands End to John O Groats to raise money in his memory for Bowel Cancer UK

Last year unfortunately, I also lost my mum, this time to Lung Cancer.

Was that really 7 years ago?! I remember it well. Sorry to hear about your mum, it sounds like you're taking on an even bigger challenge this time around, best of luck with it BigGee and great work on raising money for an extremely worthy cause!

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:

BigGee wrote:Getting away from Rugby for a moment

Some of you with longish memories, may remember that 7 years ago, after my dad died from Bowel Cancer, I did a bike ride from Lands End to John O Groats to raise money in his memory for Bowel Cancer UK

Last year unfortunately, I also lost my mum, this time to Lung Cancer.

Was that really 7 years ago?! I remember it well. Sorry to hear about your mum, it sounds like you're taking on an even bigger challenge this time around, best of luck with it BigGee and great work on raising money for an extremely worthy cause!

7 years since I laughed at you using your 606 username on the donation site, and I've just laughed again!

Well Warriors made right hard work of it, but see Zebre off in the end with BP. Still going to be 4th though as Leinster also won well.

Not a lot to take from that game other than the performance of Rory Darge, who was outstanding.

You got to say as well, how did Zebre come last playing like that?

There is a half decent team in there somewhere. Surely they can only improve going forward.

Glasgow will need to play much much better in the playoffs though. Their season is in danger of running out of steam badly.

I watched a lot of Zebre this season - they really have played some good rugby this year. Their defence still needs work and they do have periods were they make some handling or attacking errors.

If they can keep their key players and maybe add a bit in the off season with a bit more quality I can see them winning some games. They got a pretty good pack in there as well. Probably need something in the back row but front 5 look fairly solid.

Glasgow did what they needed, along with Leinster. Munster and Bulls now need to win tomorrow. Bulls with their point difference probably dont need a 5 pointer either but will need to win by 11 points at least to get 2nd. Any win for Munster will do.

Thankfully Connacht got hee haw out of their game away to Leinster so that's one less team for Edinburgh to worry about.

Glasgow's dreadful trip to South Africa likely to provide the difference to their top 4 standings. Does feel like they're running out of steam in the last month.

We'll that's Edinburgh done and dusted

Think so - only a Stormers 8point win in the last 15 will save them now.

Now Izikor score a 5th. He's been pretty good in this second half. Been very physical and good in defence.

Takes Benetton to 31-6.......

At this point Edinburgh will hope Stormers can come back and beat the Lions by at least 8 points.....

On the plus side Stormers have just scored so they are leading 29-24.

Another 3 points and Edinburgh still might make it.....

Welshmushroom wrote:On the plus side Stormers have just scored so they are leading 29-24.  

Another 3 points and Edinburgh still might make it.....

They would not deserve it

Been really poor this afternoon

Defence and pack played really well but everyone from 9-15 really didnt play well. Lang was probably the worst on the park - made some bad errors. Price hasn't been great either and well the rest of them barely have been seen.

If Edinburgh can sort their backline play out and recruit there they defo have the pack to get them into games. Ritchie has another strong game.

Welshmushroom wrote:Defence and pack played really well but everyone from 9-15 really didnt play well.  Lang was probably the worst on the park - made some bad errors.  Price hasn't been great either and well the rest of them barely have been seen.

If Edinburgh can sort their backline play out and recruit there they defo have the pack to get them into games.  Ritchie has another strong game.

Been the story of their season