Glasgow and Edinburgh 30 - Starting the new season with 2 wins - Long may it continue

First topic message reminder :

Well both Scotland's pro teams got off the mark with a W this weekend, though probably fair to say that Glasgow's was slightly more pleasing on the eye!

Still not to be sniffed at and probably a while since it last happened.

A good omen for the season, let's hope so, though early season games are not always a predictor of longer term performance. Both sides still got plenty of players to bring back into the fold and a lot of improvement to make.

Roll on 2023/24!

But Lions did pick up a LBP so thats it for Edinburgh. Season is over.

Well Edinburgh clearly have plenty to work on and figure out. Let’s hope Tuipulotu JR adds a bit of oomph in that backline next season. 

Big congrats to Benetton for a strong season.

Best of luck to Big Bill Mata and club legend WP Nel. Both fantastic players who were very loyal to the club.

That's an absolute shocker from Edinburgh. This game was meant to be the culmination of a season's hard work, and with 2 weeks to prepare they should have been the most prepared possible. I saw the first half and it looked like they just met in the carpark.

That's a coaching issue IMO, especially as that's what we've generally looked like all season. That was a pack full of experienced internationals (Poopie backs though).

Given we finished 10th and have had a season full of dull and insipid performances this must be one of our worst seasons since the early Cockerill ays.

What can Everitt do different next year?

So disappointed!

Yeah got to be a disappointment given Edinburgh actually have a good playing budget spend these days. Based on that showing they probably need to re-think who is on the books with them.

And Edinburgh didn't score a try, which is a fitting end to a season where (other than rolling mauls) we've been the worst attacking team in the league.

Still raging about that performance!

Watching the game the issue to me looked like no imagination in attack - just one out runners all the time - wide backs hardly got a pass

TJ wrote:Watching the game the issue to me looked like no imagination in attack - just one out runners all the time - wide backs hardly got a pass

Been like that all season TJ - the entire attacking strategy is one out passes and run head first onto defence. It's embarrassing comparing our attack to any other team.

Any idea who the attack coach is meant to be?

What's Healy been like at Edinburgh this season?

Maine man wrote:What's Healy been like at Edinburgh this season?

Pretty meh from what I have seen - as above very dull attacking. could be he has been told to do this but he has not impressed me one bit. I'd be surprised if he ever gets another cap for Scotland unless he plays a lot better

I think the problem for Edinburgh this season from the games I've watched Healy hasn't had a great deal of support from his centres. 12 is a problem for Edinburgh. They don't get any go forward there. Moses should help with that and if Bennett can rediscover his form from a few seasons ago they will have a better pairing there. But for me they probably need a third centre of quality as well as cover. Especially when you consider how many brutish 12's will be kicking around in the URC next season.

Welshmushroom wrote:I think the problem for Edinburgh this season from the games I've watched Healy hasn't had a great deal of support from his centres.  12 is a problem for Edinburgh.  They don't get any go forward there.  Moses should help with that and if Bennett can rediscover his form from a few seasons ago they will have a better pairing there.  But for me they probably need a third centre of quality as well as cover.  Especially when you consider how many brutish 12's will be kicking around in the URC next season.  

If only there was an experienced international centre moving back to Edinburgh for family reasons this summer...

RDW wrote:And Edinburgh didn't score a try, which is a fitting end to a season where (other than rolling mauls) we've been the worst attacking team in the league.

Still raging about that performance!

Yeah it was a really limp way to send off Nel and Mata. It’s also sad to see Edinburgh regress so rapidly after a strong showing vs Munster. For me it’s simply a matter of culling a few players, bringing in some new ones and having a strong pre season.

On the centres, Matt Currie looks the real deal but it's hard to impress when you've got so little to work with, especially as a centre. If he was playing for Glasgow he'd be a real standout IMO.

RDW wrote:And Edinburgh didn't score a try, which is a fitting end to a season where (other than rolling mauls) we've been the worst attacking team in the league.

Still raging about that performance!

What happened here? And is Darcy back playing?

George Carlin wrote:

RDW wrote:And Edinburgh didn't score a try, which is a fitting end to a season where (other than rolling mauls) we've been the worst attacking team in the league.

Still raging about that performance!

What happened here? And is Darcy back playing?

Edinburgh's attacking play this season has made the Alan Solomons era look like Glasgow under Toonie by comparison.

Darcy has barely played all season, which hasn't helped.

RDW wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

RDW wrote:And Edinburgh didn't score a try, which is a fitting end to a season where (other than rolling mauls) we've been the worst attacking team in the league.

Still raging about that performance!

What happened here? And is Darcy back playing?

Edinburgh's attacking play this season has made the Alan Solomons era look like Glasgow under Toonie by comparison.

Darcy has barely played all season, which hasn't helped.

So recruitment in the summer is going to be crucial for the Cuticle Shapers. Let's hope that Peter Horne has some targets in mind.

Another couple of Weejian Fijians and a lost Bokke loose forward should be high on the list.

More importantly than all of this, my missus wants to come to Edinburgh during the Fringe in August.

It's the one time that I have avoided visiting the capital because everything is rammed, drinks cost a fortune and you lose your shirt on accommodation.

Am I wrong about that?

Healy has been poor, which was epitomized in the Benetton game, there was a sigh of relief around me when he was subbed.  I know I am beginning to sound like I’ve some kind of grievance with him, but he’s just not a good player. Watching him all season it’s been clear he’s nowhere near ready to be a first choice 10. It’s no wonder Munster were not promoting him to starting 10. He can’t control a game; he can’t get the backs going and his decision making is equally questionable.  Edinburgh need to go full in on Thomson next season, I’m not saying he’s the messiah but he can’t be worse.  Our centres haven’t exactly set the heather alight either, but they’re getting terrible ball from Healy.

In the Benetton game, Lang and Dean looked exactly what they were, two players who were out of position, however, I was amazed with the amount of times Lang knocked the ball on from high balls.  Benetton could have put a cricket score on us if they just spent the game peppering him with high balls.  Dean getting turned in the run up to the 3rd/4th try was equally embarrassing.

Duhan spent most of that match just having a tantrum on the wing likely due to the ineptitude around him.  He was constantly telling Lang where to be as he kept leaving acres of space. I get Lang doesn’t play FB, but if he wasn’t capable of playing there then Everitt should not have played him there.

Not one player who took the field against Benetton had a good game, and whilst I was trying to be positive about Everitt a few weeks back, he’s making it really hard.  That was our cup final, the players should have taken the field raring to go, with a clear gameplan in mind and in reality, they looked like they could not give a toss. Benetton going down to 14 men almost instantly and yet you would not have known we had a man advantage. It was shameful.

Oh and whitehouse and his team, how any of them are regarded as professional officials is a mystery to me. The touch judge on the main stand side, was a good 5-10 metres short on where balls went into touch on at least 2 occasions, they were pinging players for no reason and totally ignoring other offences. This was for both sides, so I am not saying they impacted the outcome of the game, as Benetton were just better, but they had no clue how to ref the game. I think there needs to be some kind of review of Whitehouse in particular as he is probably the worst ref in the URC and he needs to be kept away from International rugby.

As an aside, Treviso is a lovely wee place.  There is sod all to do there, other than eat, drink and stroll around the largely very quiet streets admiring the architecture and thinking about where to eat and drink next, which is a very pleasant way to pass the time. Plus, it’s only 20 mins or so by train to Venice, so if you want to visit there, without having to stay in Venice and deal with the crowds and smell, it’s very easy to head over early and leave before it gets too bad. Would highly recommend.

George Carlin wrote:More importantly than all of this, my missus wants to come to Edinburgh during the Fringe in August.

It's the one time that I have avoided visiting the capital because everything is rammed, drinks cost a fortune and you lose your shirt on accommodation.

Am I wrong about that?

Absolutely the slogan of Edinburgh during the festival.  If you want to enjoy Edinburgh for Edinburgh, don't visit during the festival, unless you love crowds, and paying the 3-4 times any form of normal accommodation rates.

However, if your missus wants to see the Festival and not Edinburgh, then good luck.

Hoggy to Montpellier seems to be getting some considerable press coverage today.

It all seems a bit crazy that he thinks the clock can be rolled back like that. You wonder if that rehab spell really did him any use at all.

BigGee wrote:Hoggy to Montpellier seems to be getting some considerable press coverage today.

It all seems a bit crazy that he thinks the clock can be rolled back like that. You wonder if that rehab spell really did him any use at all.

Unable to get commentary gigs at the moment and blown his dosh on lawyers, booze and nose clams perhaps...?

George Carlin wrote:More importantly than all of this, my missus wants to come to Edinburgh during the Fringe in August.

It's the one time that I have avoided visiting the capital because everything is rammed, drinks cost a fortune and you lose your shirt on accommodation.

Am I wrong about that?

Oh dear GC! That's a shocker - stay away! The Fringe attracts the very worst of humanity, and a lot of Americans. Come for the week after the Fringe. It's bliss.

RDW wrote:On the centres, Matt Currie looks the real deal but it's hard to impress when you've got so little to work with, especially as a centre. If he was playing for Glasgow he'd be a real standout IMO.

Totally agree on Currie. He really does look the business at 13, and I'm hopeful that the younger Tuipolotu brings some thumping brawn to the 12 jersey because we need some of that.

I'm actually very supportive of Healy at 10. I think he has potential and is an awesome kicker from hand/ the tee. I'd give him plenty more time personally, and we have the Glasgow cast-off to keep him honest. What I do want is Vellacott at 9 and given a proper shot next season. He brings much needed tempo.

BigGee wrote:Hoggy to Montpellier seems to be getting some considerable press coverage today.

It all seems a bit crazy that he thinks the clock can be rolled back like that. You wonder if that rehab spell really did him any use at all.

Madness. Japan maybe, but there's no way he's coming back at that level. I fear he's having/had a bit of a meltdown. Pity. Lovely teeth.

BigGee wrote:Hoggy to Montpellier seems to be getting some considerable press coverage today.

It all seems a bit crazy that he thinks the clock can be rolled back like that. You wonder if that rehab spell really did him any use at all.

Given how much he was going on about his body being broken, you've got to wonder why a club would want him!

Suspect clubs like Montpellier court controversy because it stirs up social media - "any news is good news".

I agree with King Carlos, he's got issues with the courts, he cant get a gig anywhere else, reportedly not many folk he's played with enjoy his company so even if he started a podcast he's got nae mates to come on... He's going to destroy his body for the money and as a part of his public persona rehabilitation.

A 2 year deal for Jake Henry at Edinburgh, though it seems he will spend the first season on loan at Coventry in the English Championship.

Are Edinburgh really that flush with decent back three players. They seemed to be really struggling in that dept in the latter part of the season.

BigGee wrote:A 2 year deal for Jake Henry at Edinburgh, though it seems he will spend the first season on loan at Coventry in the English Championship.

Are Edinburgh really that flush with decent back three players. They seemed to be really struggling in that dept in the latter part of the season.

With McCann joining, and Sweeney hopefully fit following his extension. I guess Edinburgh are expecting to have less of an injury crisis next season that they can afford to let Henry go on loan.

Assuming all fit then we would have in the back 3

Darcy
Duhan
Goosen
Boff
Paterson
McCann
Sweeney

With that said, there is chat going around that Boff might be properly crocked.  His back injury is worse than is maybe being made public, he had to be carried off the plane back from Benetton. He might recover, but from what’s being said there’s no obvious fix.

EWT Spoons wrote:

BigGee wrote:A 2 year deal for Jake Henry at Edinburgh, though it seems he will spend the first season on loan at Coventry in the English Championship.

Are Edinburgh really that flush with decent back three players. They seemed to be really struggling in that dept in the latter part of the season.

With McCann joining, and Sweeney hopefully fit following his extension. I guess Edinburgh are expecting to have less of an injury crisis next season that they can afford to let Henry go on loan.

Assuming all fit then we would have in the back 3

Darcy
Duhan
Goosen
Boff
Paterson
McCann
Sweeney

With that said, there is chat going around that Boff might be properly crocked.  His back injury is worse than is maybe being made public, he had to be carried off the plane back from Benetton. He might recover, but from what’s being said there’s no obvious fix.

Expensive re-signing of Boff that's for sure, and one I really don't think we needed to make at the time. He barely played since then and that money could have been better spent elsewhere.

I saw a tweet of Boff going in for surgery. They had been trying to manage it conservatively but that clearly was not working.

I am guessing it was a prolapsed disc and if so, that is resolvable. I had the same operation myself 15 years ago and it worked very well for me.

But then again, I am not a professional rugby player.

I was told that it’s the same injury that forced Heaslip (I think it was Heaslip, I’d had a few beers by this point) to retire. The surgery might resolve it and hopefully it does, but no guarantees that he’ll be back playing again, it might be enough to resolve the pain

Tramptastic wrote:Suspect clubs like Montpellier court controversy because it stirs up social media - "any news is good news".

I agree with King Carlos, he's got issues with the courts, he cant get a gig anywhere else, reportedly not many folk he's played with enjoy his company so even if he started a podcast he's got nae mates to come on... He's going to destroy his body for the money and as a part of his public persona rehabilitation.

Yes, he's the exact opposite of Kinghorn.

Hogg is doing the thing which ails a lot of recently retired athletes. Unless you actively want to go into coaching (which let's face it, he clearly doesn't) and you're knowledgeable/relatable enough for TV companies to lock you in as a pundit (he hasn't got there in the same way that Big Jim Hamilton has become a fixture), then he's forgetting how badly broken his body is and creating an echo chamber for himself. Agree with FES, Japan is definitely an option for a payday but the Top 14 is brutal and one hit from a test loose forward will finally turn his joints and connective tissue into scrambled egg. He'd last 6 games, maximum.

The thing with Big Jim, he's got his faults but he's clearly well liked within rugby circles. Played at a good level but very self aware of his own self limitations when it came to playing rugby and not afraid to admit it, combined with coming across as quite thoughtful and caring especially when it comes to what happens to rugby players post-career.

I've no doubt Jim is not an angel but he's not got the raging narcissism that comes with Hogg

There’s two reasons Hogg is returning to rugby

1. As said, needs the wages with the punditry drying up

2. He’s not as cabbaged as was made out when he withdrew from the World Cup squad. He was given an ultimatum, go to France or stay at home and work on sorting his family. He chose to stay and try (unsuccessfully in the end) and the “my body just can’t take it anymore” was the line given for withdrawing.

He may not have gone to Japan as they are pretty big on family and ethics over there so teams may not have wanted his baggage along with the risk of him actually being too goosed to continue to play.

Glasgow Warriors team to face DHL Stormers at Scotstoun, Saturday 8 June, kick-off 7.35pm. Tickets are still available for the match at glasgowwarriors.org – click here.

1 Jamie Bhatti (103)
2 Johnny Matthews (70)
3 Zander Fagerson (146)
4 Scott Cummings (123)
5 Richie Gray (112)
6 Matt Fagerson (108)
7 Rory Darge (45)
8 Jack Dempsey (47)

9 George Horne (116)
10 Tom Jordan (47)
11 Kyle Steyn (C) (74)
12 Sione Tuipulotu (52)
13 Huw Jones (68)
14 Sebastian Cancelliere (35)
15 Josh McKay (46)

Replacements

16 George Turner (99)
17 Nathan McBeth (40)
18 Oli Kebble (102)
19 Max Williamson (17)
20 Euan Ferrie (18)
21 Henco Venter (18)
22 Jamie Dobie (65)
23 Ross Thompson (49)

Unavailable for selection: Fraser Brown (knee), JP du Preez (knee), Stafford McDowall (hand), Ally Miller (calf), Alex Samuel (head), Ollie Smith (knee), Lucio Sordoni (foot), Sione Vailanu (knee).

Well that is probably about as strong a side as Glasgow can put out. probably the only contentious decision would be Cancelliere over Rowe, but there is not really a fag paper between them.

Turner on the bench on his way back to fitness is not unreasonable either and could bring some real impact later on.

No excuses really!

You'd hope that team is enough to beat the Stormers at home, there's so much quality there!

There are 12 Scotland Internationals in the starting 15. Seba, Jordan and McKay are the exceptions. You really would fancy that side to win at home against almost anyone in the URC.
However, tis knockout rugby and we are Glasgow.
Another interesting thing is the bench; Kebble, Turner and Thompson are all leaving and this could be their last match at Scotstoun. Will they be putting their bodies on the line if they come on? Conversely, will they be too emotional when they come on and do something card worthy?

Now a big moan about The General's attachment to a 6/2 split. Over in SA, Lions I think, Stafford was led off at half time with the medic supporting his hand. We didn't have another back on the bench and Stafford, with hand bandaged played the second 40. He hasn't played since and is listed as unavailable with a hand injury.

The choice of Kebble is a bit frustrating. I get it, he is up for the match with this likely his final game at Scotstoun and potentially for Glasgow. It is against his former team. It is made for him to score a try to win the match...or get sent off. However, Walker is being made out to be the next young TH to push on and he is finally fit. If he is rated so highly, why are we selecting a converted LH?

On a side note, Adam Nicol was selected on the bench of the RFU Championship team of the season.

Otherwise, that is a really strong side and one I would hope has enough to put the travelling Stormers away.

Apparently Nicol is going to Ealing next season, so he does appear to still be on an upward curve

Always useful to have another SQ TH in the mix

tigertattie wrote:There’s two reasons Hogg is returning to rugby

1. As said, needs the wages with the punditry drying up

2. He’s not as cabbaged as was made out when he withdrew from the World Cup squad. He was given an ultimatum, go to France or stay at home and work on sorting his family. He chose to stay and try (unsuccessfully in the end) and the “my body just can’t take it anymore” was the line given for withdrawing.

He may not have gone to Japan as they are pretty big on family and ethics over there so teams may not have wanted his baggage along with the risk of him actually being too goosed to continue to play.

A Japanese side signed Cory Hill with his rep and I reckon have signed a few of the “no d***head policy” all blacks, so I’m not sure they’re that morally high ground.

Tight old game at Scotstoun in pretty sh*tty conditions.

Warriors lead 6-0 with two Hornito pens. He also spooned a pass that he has run in for a try hundreds of times before. Hope that won't cost us.

The wind has been a factor and Stormers will have that in second half.

BigGee wrote:Tight old game at Scotstoun in pretty sh*tty conditions.

Warriors lead 6-0 with two Hornito pens. He also spooned a pass that he has run in for a try hundreds of times before. Hope that won't cost us.

The wind has been a factor and Stormers will have that in second half.

We are warriors, we are warriors!

Glasgow, we never doubted

The real Warriors turned up tonight!

Ah sure now, the better team won. Poor Ross Thompson, leaving that to head off to the Billy.

Can that team win at Thomond I'm not overly confident of that,

What a signing Henco Venter has been for us, he just turns up every single game. Made out of granite.

jimbopip wrote:Ah sure now, the better team won. Poor Ross Thompson, leaving that to head off to the Billy.

Can that team win at Thomond I'm not overly confident of that,

No, and the Munster Munters are flying at the moment.

Will we regard a semi-final appearance as a Good Season? I think it may actually be given that I do still think we have gaps in the squad. It's nowhere near as complete as it was in 2015, even though we have some excellent individuals.

Can we win at Thomond?
It is possible. Mostly possible in the same way as !Rishi! could utterly and completely denounce Farage and his Reformers, make a fulsome apology for 14 of incompetence and greed on an industrial scale, unveil a manifesto that actually follows Benthamite Uitilitarian principles and puts the welfare of the many above the pampering of the already ultra rich, and then wins the election with a thumping majority. In that alternative dimension Glasgow win in Thomond.

So ..... it'll be Deutschland uber alles on Friday night and I've got big Doncha's wee cousin coming round for the match on Saturday.

Fecc but it's rank being Scottish sometimes.

I tend to think the season got away from us considering our position three weeks ago. Leinster at home for the semi final and then Bulls or Munster having to fly from SA to a packed Murrayfield is not a bad run.

As it is, if we get past Munster, we then have to hope Leinster beat the Bulls away and have to make a long journey home before playing us.

Glasgow is good enough to beat Munster away. Whilst Munster are favourites, we have more than a puncher's chance against them. It is going to be physical battle and our front five need to show up

Hazel Sapling wrote:I tend to think the season got away from us considering our position three weeks ago. Leinster at home for the semi final and then Bulls or Munster having to fly from SA to a packed Murrayfield is not a bad run.

As it is, if we get past Munster, we then have to hope Leinster beat the Bulls away and have to make a long journey home before playing us.

Glasgow is good enough to beat Munster away. Whilst Munster are favourites, we have more than a puncher's chance against them. It is going to be physical battle and our front five need to show up

Careful now!

Down with that sort of thing.

We have NO CHANCE. None. We are beaten before we get on the plane. No point in turning up. In fact....we're doomed.

Part of me wants Nathan Macbeth to play...the sensible part says he was concussed at the weekend and should sit this one out. I won't be surprised if he makes a miraculous recovery: disappointed but not surprised. I wonder if Murphy Walker might be on the bench though.

Other than changes forced through injuries I think it'll be the same 23.

Possibly Turner stating and Matthews on the bench.
Possibly Lord Stafford stating ahead of Shug.
The big call would be if Big Shona was deemed fit enough for a place on the bench.
And, in what is becoming a recurring theme,....why a 6/2 split?