Ireland vs Italy - Discussion Thread - Teams Announced

[MMC]

First topic message reminder :

Ireland:
15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (Leinster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
19 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
22 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)

Italy:
15 Andrea Masi
14 Tommaso Benvenuti
13 Gonzalo Canale
12 Gonzalo Garcia
11 Mirco Bergamasco
10 Luciano Orquera
9 Fabio Semenzato
8 Sergio Parisse (captain)
7 Mauro Bergamasco
6 Alessandro Zanni
5 Cornelius van Zyl
4 Quintin Geldenhuys
3 Martin Castrogiovanni
2 Leonardo Ghiraldini
1 Salvatore Perugini.

Replacements:
16 Fabio Ongaro
17 Andrea Lo Cicero
18 Marco Bortolami
19 Paul Derbyshire
20 Edoardo Gori
21 Riccardo Bocchino
22 Luke McLean.

Afternoon all.

With just a few days to go now until a massive winner takes all game between Ireland and Italy, it's time to get our thoughts and opinions into one place.

There are many topics to discuss;

- Who'll start at 10?
- Who'll win the battle of the scrums?
- Who plays at 12 if D'Arcy isn't fit?

As a result of not getting the try bonus point against the USA (with Italy having managed to do so earlier today), we find ourselves in a situation whereby we either top the group or go home.

This is an absolutely massive game and the Italians will have been targeting for a long time now, much like Ireland targeted the Australia game.

So what are people's thoughts and feelings about the game?

- What tactics should we use?
- Where should we attack Italy?
- Where can Italy hurt Ireland?
- Who'll get the call in the highly contested positions of 9, 10 and 11?

I can't wait for this one.

Bring. It. On.

[Sin é]

What's Castro's twitter name?

martin castro
@castrito81

https://twitter.com/#!/castrito81

He went demented when Ireland beat Australia - seems to be as mad as a badger

[Mickado]

What's Castro's twitter name?

castrito81

Sound, i'll have a gander.

[D24tress]

his broken english is quite funny

[red_stag]

Geordan Murphy was making jibes about Castro too. Apparently its just team mates having banter.

I think last time will have very little bearing on this time. Last time it was in Italy, we had Roman Poite as the ref, we had zero scrum, we had the likes of Kearney, Bowe, Ferris and Heaslip missing through injury. We had Tomas O'Leary at scrumhalf and Luke Fitzgerald at fullback. Fergus McFadden was making his debut on the wing.

This is an entirely different kettle of fish.

[Feckless Rogue]

I think ROG and Trimble should start. They both deserve to based on their performances. It'll be good for general squad morale to know that there are places up for grabs if a player is playing well enough. Sexton has to up his game and practice his kicking until his percentages are better. He's shown before he's got the bottle recover from setbacks.

[eirebilly]

I am nervous about this match purely because it would be so typically Irish for them to do so well only to get knocked completely out when things seemingly look good.

On the other hand. I cant see Ireland loosing, they are a team coming into some form and are simply better than Italy. Start with the strongest team (form wise) available and put Italy away :-)

[Mickado]

Jeysus, he's a lunatic. Just effin' loads of people out of it. Then randomly telling the world that Manu Tuilagi is the best player in the world. He's no @properchurch that's for sure!
#keepitparish

[Boyne]

Are all of these rugby player dyslexic?

[MMC]

Are all of these rugby player dyslexic?

You're being ironic, right?

[Thomond]

I think ROG is the man for Sunday. It will be a tight contest for at least 60 minutes,we need someone who can take kicks,we mightn't get many chances. Sexton was never the best kicker,but hopefully it will give him a wake up call anyway.

[Boyne]

Yes.

I have the excuse of being at work.

[Standulstermen]

I think we will get plenty of chances. I think we are building Italy up into something they arent. They are perenial wooden spooners and while their improvement has been both welcome and noticeable i dont think we should be going in with any fear. We have a good enough team to create chances and we have a backrow i (atm) wouldnt swap for anyone.

Our front has dismantled Oz who held their own to a large extent against Italy. missing POC would be a blow but we have enough quality throughout our team to beat them.

[MMC]

You're right though Boyne. I had a look at his Twitter page and pretty much all of it is inane rambling.

Speaking of Castro, do you think Kaplan will be on the look out for him scrummaging at an angle, given that it was pointed out towards the end of the USA game?

[Boyne]

I think the very fact that Mallet has opened his mouth and blabbered about having the best front row will make Kaplan sit up and take notice. But maybe not in the was Mallet wants.

Theres a very small genepool in world rugby and the ref will be onto his antics- much like the Poite indecent and might just look to "show" us that hes not influenced.

I hope so anyway.

[dublin_dave]

"You could also say that ROG could get the score board ticking over early which will knock the fight out of the Italians".

Thats where im at at the moment also sin e.

Not going to put Rog on some massive pedestal for bossing a game against a team of siberian welders. He is however playing well and kicking extremely well. Sextons kicking as we now has been poor.

Castro is a mad man. Hopefully or own front row mad man will get parity with him at the set piece

[MMC]

I think the very fact that Mallet has opened his mouth and blabbered about having the best front row will make Kaplan sit up and take notice. But maybe not in the was Mallet wants.

Theres a very small genepool in world rugby and the ref will be onto his antics- much like the Poite indecent and might just look to "show" us that hes not influenced.

I hope so anyway.

Good point. I hope so too.

It's hard to see Italy hurting us in any other area. They're so one-dimensional. And yet I'm still worried. Again though, I'm more worried about the thought of losing as opposed to Italy themselves. The fact is, if we can't beat Italy then we don't deserve to be in the knockout stages.

Does anyone know, is the roof definitely closed for this one? I thought I heard that both teams had to agree on it. I can see why Ireland would want it closed but I can't see why Italy would agree to it when their best chance against us is a long and drawn out slugfest.

Any articles I've read this week have all spoken about the closed roof as if it's a certainty.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

I think the very fact that Mallet has opened his mouth and blabbered about having the best front row will make Kaplan sit up and take notice. But maybe not in the was Mallet wants.

Theres a very small genepool in world rugby and the ref will be onto his antics- much like the Poite indecent and might just look to "show" us that hes not influenced.

I hope so anyway.

Good point. I hope so too.

It's hard to see Italy hurting us in any other area. They're so one-dimensional. And yet I'm still worried. Again though, I'm more worried about the thought of losing as opposed to Italy themselves. The fact is, if we can't beat Italy then we don't deserve to be in the knockout stages.

Does anyone know, is the roof definitely closed for this one? I thought I heard that both teams had to agree on it. I can see why Ireland would want it closed but I can't see why Italy would agree to it when their best chance against us is a long and drawn out slugfest.

Any articles I've read this week have all spoken about the closed roof as if it's a certainty.

Can the roof be opened? It's not the millennium stadium.

[red_stag]

I was fairly sure that there was no opening/closing roof. Its simply an indoor stadium.

[TheGreyGhost]

Correct.

[MMC]

I was fairly sure that there was no opening/closing roof. Its simply an indoor stadium.

That would make sense. Thanks Stag.

[Mickado]

Can they open the windows?

[Thomond]

That would let the heat out.

[TheGreyGhost]

Anyone who can hit the roof with a punt gets a point though.

Maybe it could be a new and even more boring tactic than the maul/drop kick combo.

[Sin é]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forsyth_Barr_Stadium

Summary, its got a permanent glass roof, real grass turf and a capacity of 30K.

It seems to have been built on stilts or something (wind can get in under the stands) which is causing all the kicking problems for Jonny & Dan.

[dublin_dave]

wind indoors, haha only in the south island in new zealand

absolute shambles of a place dunedin. Like dourest protestent scotland only hanging off the back side of the planet.

at least ayrshire etc is relatively close to civilization and has golf courses..

[valjester]

Geordan Murphy was making jibes about Castro too. Apparently its just team mates having banter.

I think last time will have very little bearing on this time. Last time it was in Italy, we had Roman Poite as the ref, we had zero scrum, we had the likes of Kearney, Bowe, Ferris and Heaslip missing through injury. We had Tomas O'Leary at scrumhalf and Luke Fitzgerald at fullback. Fergus McFadden was making his debut on the wing.

This is an entirely different kettle of fish.

The changes in the team will make a huge difference for Ireland, Italys gameplan in the second half of the six nations match was to stick up a garryowen for luke to drop and cheat at the following scrum to get a penalty. Having kearney at fullback will get rid of that problem.

If poc misses out that will be a major blow for Ireland. He has been excellent in all the games this year and the drop down in quality to leo is huge and when poc is missing, it also usually leads to a fall in performance from the other players in the pack as well.

[emack2]

IF the weather allows it hope to see some running as well,Italy would love an arm wrestle.
Close to the try line using pick and go`s they are lethal,and has been shown earlier they can run a bit as well.
It seems in 3 of the 4 groups a bonus point win against the minnows could be vital to survival.
More so we have teams that are leading there groups,if they drop a match
they go out on points difference or the head to head,
Nail biting stuff,even the group stage is becoming knockout GREAT!!!

[eirebilly]

If Ireland lose (I dont think that they will) it will be down to the BP's they should have got against the minnows so it will be entirely their own fault.

I hate the idea of BP's and head to heads. I am a believer in points difference and simple points for winning matches.

[Boyne]

Has POC been ruled out of this?

[Mickado]

All i've heard is that he's 50/50.... not good!

[rodders]

I read he was due to start training on Friday and hasn't trained since the Australia game.

Bowe isn't back in full training either.

I don't think either have been ruled out but you wouldn't fancy their chances.

[Boyne]

If he needs time to recover so be it.

I would risk Cullen / Ryan / DOC against Italy, but if we do manage to win, we will need POC vs Wales.

[Boyne]

Trimble on the wing for Bowe and we are not losing out much.

[rodders]

True Boyne. Murphy may come in on the bench.

Any word on BOD? The camp has been very quiet this week.

[Boyne]

Very quiet. Let the Italians do the blabbing about how good they are

[D24tress]

quiet and focused i like it, not getting too far ahead of ourselves

could be on a plane to ireland on monday morning so there is no need to start running the mouth

[BlueMuff]

So we are all agreed that the best half back pairing is Murray and Rog

[rodders]

So we are all agreed that the best half back pairing is Murray and Rog

It's the best one for Italy

[BlueMuff]

So we are all agreed that the best half back pairing is Murray and Rog

It's the best one for Italy

Why cause we will actually take our 3 point penalties when our pack wins them .....

[rodders]

Our pack have to win the penalties 1st BlueMuff .

I think Kidney has got it wrong here but I hope I'm proved wrong. Murray will be starting 9 come the 6N I'm sure but this is a big test. He's got the skills but he can't let the Italians get under his skin.

I've no doubt ROG can nail his penalties but I hope when he has the ball he plays a controlled game rather than trying the cavalier stuff like he's been doing lately.

[BlueMuff]

Our pack have to win the penalties 1st BlueMuff .

I think Kidney has got it wrong here but I hope I'm proved wrong. Murray will be starting 9 come the 6N I'm sure but this is a big test. He's got the skills but he can't let the Italians get under his skin.

I've no doubt ROG can nail his penalties but I hope when he has the ball he plays a controlled game rather than trying the cavalier stuff like he's been doing lately.

Ah you gotta love a bit of cavalier stuff sure doesnt it make for great entertainment. "its just like watching Brazil"

[Mickado]

If the rumours that Murray is starting are true then it begs the question, what has Reddan done to lose his place?
I think Reddan has been playing very well…

[TheGreyGhost]

No it doesn't

http://shadesbreath.hubpages.com/hub/Begging-the-Question-vs-Raising-the-Question-Understanding-a-commonly-misused-phrase

[BlueMuff]

If the rumours that Murray is starting are true then it begs the question, what has Reddan done to lose his place?
I think Reddan has been playing very well…

Didnt Murray start against the USA. Was it not his position in the first place? In fairness I dont think anybody can call dibs on the 9 jersey

[rodders]

It's not good for my BlueMuff.

I agree Mick but I've been down that road already so I can't get into the halfback thing without sounding like a

[Mickado]

If the rumours that Murray is starting are true then it begs the question, what has Reddan done to lose his place?
I think Reddan has been playing very well…

Didnt Murray start against the USA. Was it not his position in the first place? In fairness I dont think anybody can call dibs on the 9 jersey

Was it not his position in the first place? In his first start for Ireland? Eh, no it doesn't work like that. Reddan has started in all of the games Ireland have played well in this year. Leaving the out half debate aside for a second, what has Murray done to take the jersey off him? Or is Kidney saving his first choice scrum half for bigger days to come?

[BlueMuff]

It's not good for my BlueMuff.

I agree Mick but I've been down that road already so I can't get into the halfback thing without sounding like a

nice use of the

[BlueMuff]

If the rumours that Murray is starting are true then it begs the question, what has Reddan done to lose his place?
I think Reddan has been playing very well…

Didnt Murray start against the USA. Was it not his position in the first place? In fairness I dont think anybody can call dibs on the 9 jersey

Was it not his position in the first place? In his first start for Ireland? Eh, no it doesn't work like that. Reddan has started in all of the games Ireland have played well in this year. Leaving the out half debate aside for a second, what has Murray done to take the jersey off him? Or is Kidney saving his first choice scrum half for bigger days to come?

I think its clear that Deccie prefers a big physical SH. He was determined to bring TOL at all costs. Murray is a very similar type player only better. In fairness it is harsh on Reddan who has performed very well and I would be very condifent if he does start.

[rodders]

It's not good for my BlueMuff.

I agree Mick but I've been down that road already so I can't get into the halfback thing without sounding like a

nice use of the

[formerly known as Sam]

cheat at the following scrum

I thought the Irish were lucky not to concede more penalties at the scrum than they did. They were on the back foot for the entire 6N game when it came to the scrum. Not sure about the Leinster boys holding Tigers in the HEC Qtr either, fairly sure Tigers won the scrummaging battle there. It's just that Leinster won the lineout, breakdown, points kicking and tactical kicking battles.

I think Italy are likely to make life very difficult for the Irish in the tight and eek out a few penalties at the scrum, although Kaplan doesn't know what he's doing there so as long as you feed it and whip it away quickly you'll be fine (Kaplan takes at least 30 seconds to make a decision so if you're quick he won't notice). Ireland should win it through the midfield they have the better backline and some great options for runners from the backrow and the USA showed that Italy's defence isn't great.

If I were Ireland I'd be tempted to include Murphy and Kearney in the back three because of their ability under the high ball (Italy will kick) and Ireland don't want to give away scrums in their half.

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