England Euro 2012 squad

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England squad for Euro 2012:

Goalkeepers: Joe Hart (Man City), Rob Green (West Ham), John Ruddy (Norwich)

Defenders: Glen Johnson (Liverpool), Phil Jones (Man United), John Terry (Chelsea), Joleon Lescott (Man City), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Ashley Cole (Chelsea), Leighton Baines (Everton)

Midfielders: Theo Walcott (Arsenal), Stewart Downing (Liverpool), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal), Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Gareth Barry (Man City), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), Scott Parker (Tottenham), Ashley Young (Man United), James Milner (Man City)

Forwards: Wayne Rooney (Man United), Danny Welbeck (Man United), Andy Carroll (Liverpool), Jermain Defoe (Tottenham)

Standby players: Jack Butland (Birmingham City), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Adam Johnson (Manchester City), Daniel Sturridge (Chelsea).

ED

I'm not a big fan of using stats to prove a point, but when you've got a guy who's played 36 games, playing at the same club as arguably the best header of the ball among strikers in England, and that guy hasn't provided a single assist, it's hard to believe he's the second-best crosser of the ball in England.

Besides which, I've seen Downing play a few times, and he's frankly just not a good crosser of the ball.

The FA have never been keen on selecting late bloomers have they!

They only want to pick players who have played through the programme (under 16, 18, 21...)

New manager, same old sh it you have to laugh.

Downing and Carroll how!

why?

TSC wrote:

King Beer wrote:

Hero wrote:I'd have been tempted to have taken Rickie Lambert.

Good shout, but same argument as Holt, his age.

They should really do a 'B' fixture. Give some of the peripheral figures a chance to make a final claim. Guy's like Holt, Lambert, Rhodes, Ameobi.....

We (Scotland) have Rhodes now!! Mwahahaha.

overated

cherriesfan wrote:

Electric Demon wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Electric Demon wrote:Stats are for morons. They mean nothing. This isn't Championship Manager.

You can see with your own bloody eyes that he can cross the ball excellently.

Stats tell a story, you apparently can't read.

Stats can tell any story you want to hear.
Which one matters more - 22 shots to 1, or 1 goal to nil?
Same story, different stat, different story.

If you just watch football, not numbers, you'll see he's a quality crosser of the ball.

Liverpool put in more crosses than any other team in the Premier League

STAT!

dont mean ther good crosses

Most of them were though. The one's I saw.
No-one attacking them

Electric Demon wrote:

cherriesfan wrote:

Electric Demon wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Electric Demon wrote:Stats are for morons. They mean nothing. This isn't Championship Manager.

You can see with your own bloody eyes that he can cross the ball excellently.

Stats tell a story, you apparently can't read.

Stats can tell any story you want to hear.
Which one matters more - 22 shots to 1, or 1 goal to nil?
Same story, different stat, different story.

If you just watch football, not numbers, you'll see he's a quality crosser of the ball.

Liverpool put in more crosses than any other team in the Premier League

STAT!

dont mean ther good crosses

Most of them were though. The one's I saw.
No-one attacking them

so i shud hate on carroll or downing

cherriesfan wrote:

CF wrote:ameobi

+1

Shola is a legend, holds the ball up as well as anyone in the league and Capello had his younger brother Sammy watched numerous times before he got injured.

Luckily for us, what you 2 know about football you could write on a lollipop stick. Oh, and nice to see your still bringing some intellectual debate to the boards, CF!

[quote="Electric Demon"]

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Electric Demon wrote:Stats are for morons. They mean nothing. This isn't Championship Manager.

You can see with your own bloody eyes that he can cross the ball excellently.

Stats tell a story, you apparently can't read.

Stats can tell any story you want to hear.
Which one matters more - 22 shots to 1, or 1 goal to nil?

1 goal. Being 1 goal more than Downing has either scored or assisted ALL SEASON!

If you just watch football, not numbers, you'll see he's a quality crosser of the ball.

Liverpool put in more crosses than any other team in the Premier League

To one of the top target men in English football and he still managed to only a couple of goals all season - none of them assisted by the player you're glourifying.

Thank-you for that stat, proves my point entirely.

Downing is a very good crosser of the ball. That said he has been in some aweful form and i really dont think that he should have been selected.

Some people say Holt is a one season wonder, that may be so but why would you not capitalise on that?

I've been watching him, I don't think he has been in awful form. The numbers have just gone against him this year. You can throw numbers into the trash can. They are a complete irrelevance.
Just put your iPad down, stop watching Countdown, and watch the game, and you can see he's a quality crosser

Wow, you are a little aggresive there Electric Demon...

He's just passionate about Downing.

Sorry eirebilly.
I didn't mean to be

I've watched him. He was awful.

I think that an on form Downing is one of the best players to get behind lines and swinging in great crosses. He just hasnt done that enough this year to warrent his selection. Thats just my opinion though.

No end product is no end product. Looking/playing pretty doesn't win you games and neither does a record of 36-0-0

If Stewart Downing could cross and finish, he'd be Gareth Bale.

In fairness to Downing, he is not there for the end product, he is there to provide the means to the end product. He has had some very good matches for Liverpool this year and some very good crosses but he has been unlucky that the Liverpool strikers and midfield have been off form.

Thats just another way of looking at it...

A record of 36-36-36 for Liverpool, would be no good to England. You don't get to transfer your goals and assists to the tournament, where an international football tournament suddenly becomes one long equation where the biggest number wins.
A record of 36-0-0 for Liverpool is irrelevant.
What matters is what happens in the 3-7 games he may play this Summer.
Hodgson has watched him, seen he can cross the ball, and saved the numbers for countdown.

King Beer wrote:If Stewart Downing could cross and finish, he'd be Gareth Bale.

And pace and the ability to beat a defender

A record of 36-36-36 would warrant inclusion.

Might as well pick Owen then, he has a good record in past tournaments.

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:

King Beer wrote:If Stewart Downing could cross and finish, he'd be Gareth Bale.

And pace and the ability to beat a defender

And be Welsh

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:A record of 36-36-36 would warrant inclusion.

Might as well pick Owen then, he has a good record in past tournaments.

Good idea.

Get Charlton in there, he won a World Cup. Geoff Hurst has proved he can score goals, he bagged 3 in a WC final.

Bryan Robson can shore up the midfield. Play Butcher alongside Terry and give that Alan Shearer the #9 shirt. I reckon he could get a few goals.

lol KB.

I would have picked:

Goalies: Hart, Ruddy, A.N. Other

Defence: Baines, Jones, Richards, Jagielka, Cahill, Rio, Lescott

Midfield: Sinclair, Gerrard, Oxlade, Young, Parker (c), Joe Cole, Carrick, Barry

Forwards: Rooney, Holt, Crouch, Sturridge, Welbeck

Ok, the squad is pretty poor still BUT England have gone for experience before and failed, might as well give everyone else a chance.

Yes Holt would probably never play for England again BUT he's having a good season and is on form so take advantage of that!!

King Beer wrote:

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:A record of 36-36-36 would warrant inclusion.

Might as well pick Owen then, he has a good record in past tournaments.

Good idea.

Get Charlton in there, he won a World Cup. Geoff Hurst has proved he can score goals, he bagged 3 in a WC final.

Bryan Robson can shore up the midfield. Play Butcher alongside Terry and give that Alan Shearer the #9 shirt. I reckon he could get a few goals.

and bring back Beckham

Stuart Pearce will get everybody motivated.

England have made a mistake by not taking Joe Cole.

Alessandro Ciambella wrote:England have made a mistake by not taking Joe Cole.

I confess to not watching a huge amount of Ligue 1, despite living in France (OK so I don't watch any), but by all accounts he's had a good time at Lille, and could add something a bit different to the England set-up. He's certainly a superior player to Downing, and quite possibly to Walcott and Milner too.

eirebilly wrote:In fairness to Downing, he is not there for the end product, he is there to provide the means to the end product.

Which he hasn't been able to do in 36 games.

I think Joe Cole plays with his heart on his sleeve every time he plays for England. Very rarely puts in a bad performance. I would have taken him instead of Milner.
That's my only criticism I can level at the squad

I'm guessing Hodgson's giving the old guard one last chance so if they fail he can move on. Can't blame him for the safe approach a couple of weeks into his job.

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:I'm guessing Hodgson's giving the old guard one last chance so if they fail he can move on. Can't blame him for the safe approach a couple of weeks into his job.

I agree with that. Its a major tournament but not as big as the world cup. If England fail he knows he cannot be sacked, and he can rid the squad of the older players and start fresh, ready for Brazil in 2014, obviously as long as the qualify. Its a no lose situation as there is so little pressure on him.

I hate the FA

picking shyyyt players just to make sure certain teams (Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal) have some representation!

I think its a quality squad Owen.

Lampard should be on the bench. He's in the squad, not the team.

Glen Johnson is a quality RB. No issues there. Richards blows too hot and cold. Johnson is more consistent than people give him credit for

Electric - Your really stretching it with quality lol. Obviously all a matter of opinion but for me Johnson has always been quite overated..he lacks concentration just as much as Richards in my book..at least Richards has the pace to make up ground. Who is going to be worried about Johnson?...Any winger in the world need only watch his performance against Germany and they will be champing at the bit. As for Lampard I think you could be in for a shock come the EURO's he is in the squad as a starting player without a doubt.

Graeme & Martyr - I think like Hodgson you have missed a gaping point here..this is the first time in a long time the England squad will go into a tournament with a lack of expectation and weight on their shoulders..This was a perfect chance for Hodgson to blood the youth, get them experience of a major tournament but more importantly shed us of the #goldengeneration..

You say he has nothing to lose if we fail with the squad he names but I disagree..he has fundamentally made the same mistakes as Capello in 2010. Named Lampard & Gerrard regardless of the fact they cant play together...named Terry who is a destructive influence on the squad (last time it was Bridge hanging over his head this time Anton)...left out form players for names ...see Downing & Johnson.

Had he taken the youngsters and failed fans and media would have applauded his forthsight to give them experience and his bravery and boldness to begin a new era...now if they flop again he will be derided for repeating the errors of his predecessors!

Check out my full view...and the scarly similar starting XI that could line up against France at my blog:

http://aviewfrommyarmchair.blogspot.co.uk/

Its not the league cup though. You can't just write it off and use it to blood youngsters.. give them a bit of experience.
What sort of message does that give out?
That England, despite NEVER having won it, are arrogant enough to use the Euros as a training exercise.
Its a bizarre suggestion.
You don't blood youngsters in major tournaments.

owen10ozzy wrote:Electric - Really the only criticism...

So your happy to look past the exclusion of A Johnson a man who can actually change a game, score goals and create...for Downing?

Have you not read the rest of the thread Owen? Downing is a left footed Beckham, just unfortunate that none of those crosses have been converted into goals and he hasn't been able to contribute any of his own. Technically that's all irrelevant though, because the crosses ARE good, they really ARE.

We should take Downing and Beckham.

IMAGINE THE CROSSES

Didn't say he was Beckham now did I?
You macaroon

TopHat

Carroll and Skrtel are 2 exceptional headers of the ball, near the top in the league, so Downing has no excuse!

Great idea to pick wingers who can't dribble, we've been here before haven't we?!

Electric Demon wrote:Its not the league cup though. You can't just write it off and use it to blood youngsters.. give them a bit of experience.
What sort of message does that give out?
That England, despite NEVER having won it, are arrogant enough to use the Euros as a training exercise.
Its a bizarre suggestion.
You don't blood youngsters in major tournaments.

Yeh, much better to play persistent and consistent experienced failures.....

owen10ozzy wrote:Graeme & Martyr - I think like Hodgson you have missed a gaping point here..this is the first time in a long time the England squad will go into a tournament with a lack of expectation and weight on their shoulders..This was a perfect chance for Hodgson to blood the youth, get them experience of a major tournament but more importantly shed us of the #goldengeneration..

Which 'youth'?

Hodgsons had the job for a couple of weeks.

Expecting him to radically reform the squad is a bit silly really.

Go with the tried and tested now and begin to shape his own team ahead of the WC qualifiers. The team that plays the first qualifier after the euros will have a youthful look I imagine.

Electric Demon wrote:Its not the league cup though. You can't just write it off and use it to blood youngsters.. give them a bit of experience.
What sort of message does that give out?
That England, despite NEVER having won it, are arrogant enough to use the Euros as a training exercise.
Its a bizarre suggestion.
You don't blood youngsters in major tournaments.

Exactly, see Ozzy Jones and Ox will get some great experience as will Cahill. Don't forget, Cleverly, Smalling, Rodwell and Wilshire (To a lesser extent of my point) are all out of the tournament injured or haven't played enough games, so his hands were tied in that respect. That's why I think give the old guard one last horrah and then if it all goes t*ts up then I think some will call it a day anyway and also he can then bring the youngsters through, most of the players in the squad now are the best available.

Ferdinands probably going to retire from internationals in the next few days.

One last hurrah for Terry and Lampard, possibly Gerrard depending on health. Ashley Cole's up in the air. Doubt we'd have seen Defoe without Rooney's suspension anyway

The only thing I would change from the England Squad is drop Lampard and Downing and bring Sturridge and Crouch

Gibbs is never healthy, and Defoe is the safe choice given Rooneys out and Welbeck and Carroll have little experience