Warren Gatland will limit the number of English players in his Lions squad

First topic message reminder :

If this headline is true then Gatland should be sacked as he has shown himself unfit for the job. Players should be picked on form irrespective of country.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/britishandirishlionsrugby/9865151/Warren-Gatland-will-limit-the-number-of-English-players-in-his-Lions-squad-to-avoid-pressure.html

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:He could limit the english players and take these instead: Tuilangi, Barritt, Waldrom, Botha, Vunipolo, Hartley and Corbisiero

He could pick plenty of English players from the Welsh side instead.

I suspect both these comments belong on the bickering tread, don't you think?

Tread? You from Dublin mate ?

This isn't the bickering thread? It's so difficult to tell these days.

A bit daft from Gatland tbh. I don't think it matters to the Aus media who tours from which country. Yes there might be some hacks that will try and dig up some of the overblown nonsense from the World cup but the players should be savvy enough to deflect quetions of that nature. This Lions tour will, i hope, be managed a lot better than Engs world cup campaign was..

I would quite happily see no English players tour with the Lions. That way none of them will be getting needlessly injured ahead of an already busy season in this anachronistic waste of time, whilst getting the ritualistic hiding off of a SH team.

Great! Lets take them on with a Rabo nations team! We could have Parisse then!

Jimpy wrote:I would quite happily see no English players tour with the Lions...

Whilst im very pro the lions...if thats the stance they want to take, f they dont want our players thats absolutely fine....it means we can send a nice mixed squad of current first teamers and youngsters down to Argentina, continue our progression whilst also giving some of the critical first teamers a well deserved rest and summer off....

However i do believe this has been taken out of context and i would be amazed if there werent a few Englishmen there...certainly the likes of Robshaw, Launchbury, Cole etc..

RubyGuby wrote:Tread? You from Dublin mate ?

I had a dry mouth, so whilst thinking of the word thread my tongue got stuck, so I typed it that way.

Gatlands biggest mistake now is that even if he picks more english than any other- he could get abuse from fans for years on that he still limited the english players for wussy reasons(he cant deal with pressure!!) rather than skill sets

He really hasnt thought this one out...

I have a question which i challenge all of you to try to answer. It may well be that Welsh posters and possibly Irish ones too, who have had more experience of Gatland and his modus operandi are especially well placed to answer................

What was Gatland hoping to achieve by voicing his concerns about England players and their relationship with the media?

What was his goal?

It is one thing to think it, and quite another to voice it.

Why did he not keep his counsel?

Gatland is inscrutable, like Confucius. Deep. Very, very deep.
Probably just winding people.

doc- he certainly isnt- just very dim!

and if he wants to wind his own players up then great- why is he coaching the lions?

no idea, mate.
This is one of those really weird things.
Don't get it.
But we might as well have fun with it, though.

If he takes anything other than the best players available he is an idiot.

Woodward did that and did a lot of damage

And over the years Gatland has shown he is not an idiot.
He also has shown an occasional bit of foot-in-mouth disease.

Gatland is craftily preparing the ground to leave out Cuthbert & North as being a bit too English.

Waldrom, Barritt, Tuilagi.

gregortree wrote:Gatland is craftily preparing the ground to leave out Cuthbert & North as being a bit too English.

Hmmm

I think that poor joke has been made a number of times. If you knew more about the players and where they were born/their parents nationalities you could be a lot cleverer with your humour....!

hasn't gatland also recently come out in the media and said he'd pick 15 englishmen for the lions, if it meant winning? I wouldn't read too much into his latest comments.

By his own admission be becomes "mischievousness" with the press when he's bored:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/9377440.stm

think his latest comments are nothing more than that.

maestegmafia wrote:

gregortree wrote:Gatland is craftily preparing the ground to leave out Cuthbert & North as being a bit too English.

Hmmm

I think that poor joke has been made a number of times. If you knew more about the players and where they were born/their parents nationalities you could be a lot cleverer with your humour....!

Maesteg,
So true, and not clever, and I don't know. The whole issue of 'country' is such a zoo I do not pretend to understand tbh. 'English qualified' brickbats are chucked about, and I just shrug, and say oh well. (English are so mongrel, I'm qualified for Gibraltar, and maybe Scotland).
I don't think a scientific DNA definition of nationhood will be discovered any time soon, so it will remain a source of WUMs & humour on 606.

Morgannwg wrote:Waldrom, Barritt, Tuilagi.

???

Lloyd George, Camus, Bogart - what is this a random name generator

Context please

Afoa, Pienaar, Payne.

come on everyone can play along as well - no idea what the rules are though

maestegmafia wrote:

gregortree wrote:Gatland is craftily preparing the ground to leave out Cuthbert & North as being a bit too English.

Hmmm

I think that poor joke has been made a number of times. If you knew more about the players and where they were born/their parents nationalities you could be a lot cleverer with your humour....!

I think it was subtle 'joke'..

btw...Can this forum have grannygate alarm or emoticon anytime someone from this side of the bridge mentions Englands overseas born players?

We are all aware he's distanced himself from the statements and sentiments in that article right?


All he said was that at the moment it looks like he will have a strong contingent of England players, and that the Aussie media will most likely focus on them to disrupt the squad.

Morg maest hersh

Gatland really does say the most unfortunate things from time to time, which lets down his no doubt substantial ability as a coach. Difficult to see how this will have any positive effect, the fallout will probably be negative.

Lets hope someone close to him helps him concentrate on the rugby, and maybe avoid too many interviews !

Mornington Crescent!

mystiroakey wrote:Morg maest hersh

for Lions management team, yes !

Update in the rugby paper.

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/latest-breaking-news/7341/gatland-will-pick-lions-on-form-not-nationality/

mystiroakey wrote:Morg maest hersh

#

Now thers's a law firm in the making...

This never would have happened had he had Alistair Campbell by his side!

My take is that it was a needless and unwise thing to see, the aftermath and reaction to the statements if proof alone, however I do not believe for one second Gatland will take anything other than the best squad of players in his eyes.

Yes the telegraph reported that he told them it was absolute bulls.... , as can be seen by any who actually read the quotes in the first place.

RubyGuby wrote:He could limit the english players and take these instead: Tuilangi, Barritt, Waldrom, Botha, Vunipolo, Hartley and Corbisiero

Ruby: "that’s absolute b*******,” Gatland told The Daily Telegraph.

I think Gatland is considering 4 of the english men for the oranges at half time - At the moment Ashton and Hartley are lined up as mid week dirt tracker orange fetchers and apparently he's undecided about the test team orangeers

Ruby, I can only report what Gatland thinks of your ideas.
(He is an avid reader of 606 apparently).

RubyGuby wrote:I think Gatland is considering 4 of the english men for the oranges at half time - At the moment Ashton and Hartley are lined up as mid week dirt tracker orange fetchers and apparently he's undecided about the test team orangeers

Mike Phillips was going to hand out the oranges, but his service was too slow.

Boom!

Gatland is very adept in front of a crowd of players
... and very inept in front of a crowd of journalists.
Why would he be worried about the foreign media targetting English players when he provides a barn door sized target in the shape of himself?

His ill-considered comments have made a rod for his back - however many English players he picks:
1. It will not be enough in some peoples eyes and they can cite this media prejudice as the reason for under-representation
or 2. It will be far too many in other peoples eyes, as he is then pandering to the English outcry against this media prejudice.

His comments about picking 15 English starters are ridiculous and shows he hasn't the first notion of what the Lions are about. Even if they were the "best" rugby players (whatever that means) there is no way he would ever start a complete England team as a Lions team. The TV and the marketeers just wouldn't stand for it and that is what the Lions are really all about.

This is just another Gatland Gaffe in a long list that shows how ill-equipped he is to be leading the Lions.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I think Gatland is considering 4 of the english men for the oranges at half time - At the moment Ashton and Hartley are lined up as mid week dirt tracker orange fetchers and apparently he's undecided about the test team orangeers

Mike Phillips was going to hand out the oranges, but his service was too slow.

Boom!

Unfortunately he'll be playing as gatland loves him

Unlikely Phillipps will start IMO...his tendency to be over involved in the fringes slows ball and encourages the opposition to draw him into an arm wrestle...I think Care and Youngs with their much quicker delivery will be preferred

The Aussies & their media have never forgiven England's dads army for knocking them out of RWC in 2003,2007, so I can sort of see Warren's point. Aussie media does have previous with England. But this tough old Kiwi should not be 'bothered' by a few colonial hacks.

100%beefy wrote:Unlikely Phillipps will start IMO...his tendency to be over involved in the fringes slows ball and encourages the opposition to draw him into an arm wrestle...I think Care and Youngs with their much quicker delivery will be preferred

Gatland surely won't pick players who aren't starters for their country, so Care won't go unless he ousts Youngs?

Wouldnt he? its happened in the past. Theyve even taken uncapped players on previous tours.

Youngs is currently ahead of Care in the england pecking order but they both keep swapping that, neither has nailed it down over the last 3 years or so theyve been competing for it. It could be that Care plays his socks off at the season end and impresses in training and in the warm ups. It may be that Youngs gets caught having a shower in the privacy of his own room and the Aussie media goes mental over it making his position in the team untenable.

The Great Aukster wrote:

100%beefy wrote:Unlikely Phillipps will start IMO...his tendency to be over involved in the fringes slows ball and encourages the opposition to draw him into an arm wrestle...I think Care and Youngs with their much quicker delivery will be preferred

Gatland surely won't pick players who aren't starters for their country, so Care won't go unless he ousts Youngs?

Interesting but people like Sheridan and Wilko are in the mix and you don't have to be even playing international rugby to be selected according to Gatland, however his latest retreat in the Telegraph suggest that position might also have changed.

I wonder if he could be the first Lions coach to be fired before the tour...perhaps this is a cunning WRU plan to get him back!

I can confirm that Hersh is still alive and well. Picking Gusgott's brain according to the most recent Q&A:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21433677

Aukster, depends on squad nos and backup, but he will probably take best 3 SHs' from B&I.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:
Mike Phillips was going to hand out the oranges, but his service was too slow.

Boom!

Ahh maybe, but the orange cart was going backwards and he did stand up to those pesky limes pretty well.....

100%beefy wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

100%beefy wrote:Unlikely Phillipps will start IMO...his tendency to be over involved in the fringes slows ball and encourages the opposition to draw him into an arm wrestle...I think Care and Youngs with their much quicker delivery will be preferred

Gatland surely won't pick players who aren't starters for their country, so Care won't go unless he ousts Youngs?

Interesting but people like Sheridan and Wilko are in the mix and you don't have to be even playing international rugby to be selected according to Gatland, however his latest retreat in the Telegraph suggest that position might also have changed.

I wonder if he could be the first Lions coach to be fired before the tour...perhaps this is a cunning WRU plan to get him back!

There's no such thing as a cunning WRU plan.

100%beefy wrote:Interesting but people like Sheridan and Wilko are in the mix and you don't have to be even playing international rugby to be selected according to Gatland, however his latest retreat in the Telegraph suggest that position might also have changed.

That implies that the best players aren't always picked then. Sheridan and Wilkinson aren't even on the England bench, so is Gatland admitting that the Lions are just a collection of his choice rather than the de facto "best" players available.

The Great Aukster wrote:

100%beefy wrote:Interesting but people like Sheridan and Wilko are in the mix and you don't have to be even playing international rugby to be selected according to Gatland, however his latest retreat in the Telegraph suggest that position might also have changed.

That implies that the best players aren't always picked then. Sheridan and Wilkinson aren't even on the England bench, so is Gatland admitting that the Lions are just a collection of his choice rather than the de facto "best" players available.

They can't be on the bench if they play in France. Lancasters Law.