Pacquiao vs Marquez to be held at catchweight 143-145lbs

First topic message reminder :

People were calling for this fight to be held at catchweight and they have been calling for this fight.

But now that it looks like it will happen at the catchweight people were calling for, will the boxing public be happy?

http://www.boxingscene.com/sources-pacquiao-marquez-held-catch-weight--38989

Sources in Mexico are reporting that a third meeting between Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez will likely have a catch-weight in place. Three weeks ago Marquez received an offer to face Pacquiao in a fall trilogy meeting. Marquez had a problem with some of the itemized terms that were listed in the offer. Pacquiao's promoter, Top Rank, is going to issue a new offer to Marquez on Monday. The revised offer will include several changes in areas that bothered Marquez. The catch-weight, reportedly, is going to fall between 143-145-pounds. Pacquiao has weighed between 144-145 for his last four welterweight ring appearances. Marquez has weighed between 133.5-134 for his last two lightweight title defenses. The fight could take place on November 5 or 12 in Las Vegas

What do you make of this news.

Should be a great fight.

D4thincarnation wrote:Yeah, Pacquiao has naturally grown since then, but heaven forbid that Marquez has grown in the same amount of time.

Lets not forget that Pacquiao was 138lbs he weighed in against Hatton, now he weighs in at 144-145lbs.

7lbs there.

I expect Marquez to to be about 140lbs on the scales and around 144-145lbs on the night.

Pacquiao will be about 142lbs on the scales and about 146lbs on the night.

Both fighting at a very comfortably weight for them.

But for some reason coxy seems to think Pacquiao will have a huge advantage in the weight stakes, but strangely he though Margarito 17lbs weight advantage didn't mean a thing.

Can anyone explain this?

Sorry not a mind reader. I honestly couldnt tell you what Coxy thinks lol.

coxy0001 wrote:If Marquez wants to weigh 135 then it makes the fight even more of a joke as Armstrong he ain't (anyone mentions that i'll go insane).

Well it wouldn't be a direct comparison anyway; Armstrong weighed in on the day of the fight, so was outweighed by 7 lb - 10 lb in most cases. If (and I accept it's only an if) Marquez does weigh in at 135 lb, he'll have the additional thirty-six hours to rehydrate, which means that, unless Pacquiao's natural weight suddenly baloons massively over the next six months, he'll likely be no more than 2 or 3 lb lighter than him. Hardly a huge advantage, is it? It seems pretty clear cut to me. If you disagree, of course that's fine, but I'm not sure why it's getting you so riled up. That's not the Coxy we know!

talkingpickle wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Yeah, Pacquiao has naturally grown since then, but heaven forbid that Marquez has grown in the same amount of time.

Lets not forget that Pacquiao was 138lbs he weighed in against Hatton, now he weighs in at 144-145lbs.

7lbs there.

I expect Marquez to to be about 140lbs on the scales and around 144-145lbs on the night.

Pacquiao will be about 142lbs on the scales and about 146lbs on the night.

Both fighting at a very comfortably weight for them.

But for some reason coxy seems to think Pacquiao will have a huge advantage in the weight stakes, but strangely he though Margarito 17lbs weight advantage didn't mean a thing.

Can anyone explain this?

Sorry not a mind reader. I honestly couldnt tell you what Coxy thinks lol.

Well thanks for the reply, most courteous

Will be thankful if anyone could give me some insight on this matter.

Thanks
D4

88Chris05 wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:If Marquez wants to weigh 135 then it makes the fight even more of a joke as Armstrong he ain't (anyone mentions that i'll go insane).

Well it wouldn't be a direct comparison anyway; Armstrong weighed in on the day of the fight, so was outweighed by 7 lb - 10 lb in most cases. If (and I accept it's only an if) Marquez does weigh in at 135 lb, he'll have the additional thirty-six hours to rehydrate, which means that, unless Pacquiao's natural weight suddenly baloons massively over the next six months, he'll likely be no more than 2 or 3 lb lighter than him. Hardly a huge advantage, is it? It seems pretty clear cut to me. If you disagree, of course that's fine, but I'm not sure why it's getting you so riled up. That's not the Coxy we know!

Speak for yourself.

I expect Marquez to to be about 140lbs

Both fighting at a very comfortably weight for them

How good did he look @ 142 then eh? You seem to place zero emphasis on a couple of lbs so by that reasoning he's going to look shocking like he did against FMJ

I'm done with this thread. Apologies to windy. But if some of you don't realise what Marquez carrying 7lb extra lbs will do to him i despair, mainly 'coz he's done it before and looked almost journeyman like.

I'm done with this thread to be honest, no-one seems able to answer why they think they're the same size when Marquez has to intentionally bulk up to get above 140 whereas Manny is now pretty much hitting the ww limit or so with ease?

LW vs WW

End of from me on this one. It would be a massacre of epic proportions as Marquez won't do a Mosley and would trade.

He had to bulk up to get above 140 DEHYDRATED.

He doesn't have to bulk up to get above 140 HYDRATED.

As far as I can see the this argument seems to be resting on the sake of a couple of pounds of extra muscle Pacquiao has.

Both guys weigh similar on fight night, both guys weigh similar outside the ring. The difference is Marquez dehydrates himself down to make 135 and Pacquiao doesnt bother anymore.

Even if we all accepted Pacquiao had a few pounds of added bulk to him I cant see why it should be such a gigantic issue to make the fight joke-worthy.

Scott

Manny stays at his weight because of a high protein diet.

Ariza has said as much as they have to pump him full of stuff to keep his livers from packing up due to the high level of said protein.

Marquez would've followed a similar diet to bulk up, not just drink more water.

Feel free to come back to me with something that resembles a well thought out post.

If you can't then i'm done with having to explain things to you.

coxy0001 wrote:Scott

Manny stays at his weight because of a high protein diet.

Ariza has said as much as they have to pump him full of stuff to keep his livers from packing up due to the high level of said protein.

Marquez would've followed a similar diet to bulk up, not just drink more water.

Feel free to come back to me with something that resembles a well thought out post.

If you can't then i'm done with having to explain things to you.

He. doesn't. need. to. bulk. up. to. have. exactly. the. same. size. difference. as. in. their. previous. fight.

Coxy is there really any need for the tone. Scott happens to hold a different opinion than you, as it would appear several do on this issue. Is possible to disagree without being patronising or downright rude.

Rowley, sadly people don't realise what training on a big protein diet does to the body and muscles and will naturally jump on the scales at 145 vs a guy who has a training camp with all the above and what that does to the body but jumps on the scales at 135 instead.

Not the same size. If people can't understand the above then why should i stay patient? I could drink shed loads of fluid alllllll tonight and weigh 8lbs heavier from doing nothing, but my body will look zero different and i would have ZERO difference in power, strenght etc. It really isn't hard to understand.

Don't really care anymore. Be another joke fight and when Marquez gets his head ripped off you'll all see why. He can't cope with the power of the 135lb'rs, couldn't cope with FMJ pit patting him and not sure how he's going to cope with Manny now he punches bigger and harder than he did before.

Utter mismatch of epic proportions.

rowley wrote:Coxy is there really any need for the tone. Scott happens to hold a different opinion than you, as it would appear several do on this issue. Is possible to disagree without being patronising or downright rude.

Absolutely agree with this. If the merits of your argument was so blindingly obvious then perhaps more people on this board would follow and agree with you. As it stands, most people seem a bit puzzled by your raving. More than once you've implied that you are intellectually superior to the majority of the people here because they see flaws or seek explanations to your logic - which is ridiculous.

Yes, JMM looked terrible when bulking up in weight against FMJ

But, surely you can see people are questioning why Marquez can look good in other fights e.g. Katsidis while weighing 145lbs on fight night. Your explanation seems to lie in some indistinct place between water, muscle, protein, and 'bulk'.

As far as I can see:
JMM is in fighting condition at a weight of around 140-145lbs (which he dehydrates to make the LW limit)

Pacquiao is in fighting condition at a weight of around 145-148 lbs (which he could dehydrate down to make LWW but doesn't bother)

Pacquiao naturally outweighs JMM by 5lbs or so on fight night. It's not exactly LW vs WW. But he does have a weight advantage, and he is used to WW power so will most likely destroy Marquez. It's not the fight I want to see but to be honest he's running out of viable opponents.

I can't understand why you would be so patronising, aggressive, and superior - I can't see any one here that has found clarity in your repeated rants

Lets have a look at Marquez and Pacquiao's ring weights.


Marquez vs Katsidis 145lbs
Pacquiao vs Margarito 148lbs
Marquez vs Diaz 144lbs
Pacquiao vs Hatton 148lbs

And when they last fought at Superfeather:

Marquez was 141lbs and Pacquiao 145lbs a whole 4lbs difference there is a very good chance that in the prospective 3rd fight the difference in there ring weight will be less than 4lbs.

But according to some, 4lbs difference close competitive fight first time round but now a 4lbs or less difference will be a utter mismatch of epic proportions.

Can someone help me to understand this?

Thanks
D4

So why DID Marquez look bad at 142lbs against Mayweather then?

Guys, it may be fun for you to try to beat the swear filter, but it's a pain in the butt for me, since I have to go and edit everything. I'd like to enjoy reading and posting as a regular poster sometimes.

Fair enough ?

Think your missing something here Coxy

If Marquez bulked up to 142lbs how did he manage to lose that excess muscle so quickly because you don't get rid of 7lb of boxer just like that, appearances can be deceptive

BALTIMORA wrote:So why DID Marquez look bad at 142lbs against Mayweather then?

I don't know for sure what were Marquez's or Mayweather's ring weight were when they fought.

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:So why DID Marquez look bad at 142lbs against Mayweather then?

I don't know for sure what were Marquez's or Mayweather's ring weight were when they fought.

Doesn't matter. His weigh-in weight was 142.

Also, apologies Windy.

BALTIMORA wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:So why DID Marquez look bad at 142lbs against Mayweather then?

I don't know for sure what were Marquez's or Mayweather's ring weight were when they fought.

Doesn't matter. His weigh-in weight was 142.

Also, apologies Windy.

His ring weight was 142lbs?

Have you got any proof?

Thanks
D4

No probs, BALTI, and thanks for your understanding.

BALTIMORA wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:So why DID Marquez look bad at 142lbs against Mayweather then?

I don't know for sure what were Marquez's or Mayweather's ring weight were when they fought.

Doesn't matter. His weigh-in weight was 142.

It does matter. He could have just weighed in without dehydrating himself and therefore his real weight was 142 in the ring or he could have been dehydrated on the scales and 150+ on the day of the fight.

BALTIMORA wrote:So why DID Marquez look bad at 142lbs against Mayweather then?

Maybe its because Mayweather is a class above?

I wont argue that the weight favoured Mayweather, especially as he didnt adhere to the catchweight. But stylewise and tactically Mayweather had too much for him. Pinning all the blame on a few extra pounds is way off.

I'm not interested in pinning the blame on a couple of pounds, bit Marquez DID look soft around the love handles when he fought Mayweather. Again, it all comes down to 'if the extra weight doesn't make a difference, why have it?' Pacquiao ran away from a third fight down at lightweight. Same as he ran away from Mosley when he first challenged Pacquiao. Same as the weight stipulation wouldn't have made a difference against Cotto...but it was still used.

Oh, and D4 please stop making things up. If you read what I'd written you might not have been so quick to make yourself look stupid. Again.

So it is agreed then?

There is not significant weight disadvantage or advantage or either participant for this fight.

And it will just come down on who is the better boxer on the night?

Anyone disagree?

D4thincarnation wrote:So it is agreed then?

There is not significant weight disadvantage or advantage or either participant for this fight.

And it will just come down on who is the better boxer on the night?

Anyone disagree?

Depends if Pacquiao has a stone in his shoe, or the wrong socks. If there's no significant weight difference in the ring, and there wasn't a great difference when they fought at super featherweight, why not have this at 140? Or 138? Fact is Pacquiao always seems to want these 'minor' stipulations 'for no real reason'.

It's like if I were to fight Vitali Klitschko. He'd win regardless, so if he asked me to fight with my laces tied together I'd want to know why.

BALTIMORA wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:So it is agreed then?

There is not significant weight disadvantage or advantage or either participant for this fight.

And it will just come down on who is the better boxer on the night?

Anyone disagree?

Depends if Pacquiao has a stone in his shoe, or the wrong socks. If there's no significant weight difference in the ring, and there wasn't a great difference when they fought at super featherweight, why not have this at 140? Or 138? Fact is Pacquiao always seems to want these 'minor' stipulations 'for no real reason'.

It's like if I were to fight Vitali Klitschko. He'd win regardless, so if he asked me to fight with my laces tied together I'd want to know why.

I'm not sure what your point is? Just can't see the relevance of or even understand it in the context were are talking about.

The evidence I have provided still show Pacquiao and Marquez are roughly the same size, the only difference is Marquez cuts to make weight and Pacquiao doesn't.

Pacquiao is under no obligation to fight Marquez at catchweight but has offered this so Marquez will not be disadvantage at all by the weight.

We know Marquez's ring weight is now 145lbs and Pacquiao's is around 148lbs. If the catchweight is 143lbs then it is very likely there ring weights could be exactly the same.

And neither man will have to cut too much or bulk up too much. Great compromise and should be a great fight between two great fighters of our generation.

BALTIMORA wrote:I'm not interested in pinning the blame on a couple of pounds, bit Marquez DID look soft around the love handles when he fought Mayweather. Again, it all comes down to 'if the extra weight doesn't make a difference, why have it?' Pacquiao ran away from a third fight down at lightweight. Same as he ran away from Mosley when he first challenged Pacquiao. Same as the weight stipulation wouldn't have made a difference against Cotto...but it was still used.

Oh, and D4 please stop making things up. If you read what I'd written you might not have been so quick to make yourself look stupid. Again.

It was Marquez choice to weigh in like that. Theres no rule saying he has to come in heavy. He can come in at whatever weight he feels best at. The purpose of the catchweight is to give him this freedom without feeling he could be potentially outsized badly. He knows Pacquiao weighs about 144/145 in the ring anyway and the biggest difference is that Pacquiao doesnt have to dehydrate down and can just come in at his normal in ring weight. Marquez can safely assume Pacquiao will be about 144/145 on the night and can decide himself what weight to come in at. Chances are, he just wont bother with dehydrating down like he does at lightweight and will just come in at his regular rehydrated weight.

Pacquiao obviously feels best around the 144 mark now and doesnt have to drain himself and rehydrate for fights now. Hence he is choosing that weight without taking any risk of draining himself. It gives him an advantage but thats to be expected given the respective status of the fighters.

The bigger issue is that Pacquaio is just way closer to his best than Marquez is. But there isnt exactly a big queue of guys with better credentials or who have earned a shot more than Marquez that can also sell.

Well to be fair Balit, Pacquiao has been fighting at Welterweight for a fair few fights now so it's down to Marquez to move up rather than Manny to move down.

Also Coxy you've answered your own question, Marquez looked soft as he was carrying extra fat which is completely different to bulking up with muscle.

manos de piedra wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:I'm not interested in pinning the blame on a couple of pounds, bit Marquez DID look soft around the love handles when he fought Mayweather. Again, it all comes down to 'if the extra weight doesn't make a difference, why have it?' Pacquiao ran away from a third fight down at lightweight. Same as he ran away from Mosley when he first challenged Pacquiao. Same as the weight stipulation wouldn't have made a difference against Cotto...but it was still used.

Oh, and D4 please stop making things up. If you read what I'd written you might not have been so quick to make yourself look stupid. Again.

It was Marquez choice to weigh in like that. Theres no rule saying he has to come in heavy. He can come in at whatever weight he feels best at. The purpose of the catchweight is to give him this freedom without feeling he could be potentially outsized badly. He knows Pacquiao weighs about 144/145 in the ring anyway and the biggest difference is that Pacquiao doesnt have to dehydrate down and can just come in at his normal in ring weight. Marquez can safely assume Pacquiao will be about 144/145 on the night and can decide himself what weight to come in at. Chances are, he just wont bother with dehydrating down like he does at lightweight and will just come in at his regular rehydrated weight.

Pacquiao obviously feels best around the 144 mark now and doesnt have to drain himself and rehydrate for fights now. Hence he is choosing that weight without taking any risk of draining himself. It gives him an advantage but thats to be expected given the respective status of the fighters.

The bigger issue is that Pacquaio is just way closer to his best than Marquez is. But there isnt exactly a big queue of guys with better credentials or who have earned a shot more than Marquez that can also sell.

Just one question if their ring weights are the same how has Pacquiao gained an advantage?

D4thincarnation wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:I'm not interested in pinning the blame on a couple of pounds, bit Marquez DID look soft around the love handles when he fought Mayweather. Again, it all comes down to 'if the extra weight doesn't make a difference, why have it?' Pacquiao ran away from a third fight down at lightweight. Same as he ran away from Mosley when he first challenged Pacquiao. Same as the weight stipulation wouldn't have made a difference against Cotto...but it was still used.

Oh, and D4 please stop making things up. If you read what I'd written you might not have been so quick to make yourself look stupid. Again.

It was Marquez choice to weigh in like that. Theres no rule saying he has to come in heavy. He can come in at whatever weight he feels best at. The purpose of the catchweight is to give him this freedom without feeling he could be potentially outsized badly. He knows Pacquiao weighs about 144/145 in the ring anyway and the biggest difference is that Pacquiao doesnt have to dehydrate down and can just come in at his normal in ring weight. Marquez can safely assume Pacquiao will be about 144/145 on the night and can decide himself what weight to come in at. Chances are, he just wont bother with dehydrating down like he does at lightweight and will just come in at his regular rehydrated weight.

Pacquiao obviously feels best around the 144 mark now and doesnt have to drain himself and rehydrate for fights now. Hence he is choosing that weight without taking any risk of draining himself. It gives him an advantage but thats to be expected given the respective status of the fighters.

The bigger issue is that Pacquaio is just way closer to his best than Marquez is. But there isnt exactly a big queue of guys with better credentials or who have earned a shot more than Marquez that can also sell.

Just one question if their ring weights are the same how has Pacquiao gained an advantage?

Because Pacquiao no longer has to dehydrate himself as he would to make 135 or 140 and then rehydrate up again.

We don't know what their ring weights will be yet but as an established Welterweight he does have an advantage with a higher weight

manos de piedra wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:I'm not interested in pinning the blame on a couple of pounds, bit Marquez DID look soft around the love handles when he fought Mayweather. Again, it all comes down to 'if the extra weight doesn't make a difference, why have it?' Pacquiao ran away from a third fight down at lightweight. Same as he ran away from Mosley when he first challenged Pacquiao. Same as the weight stipulation wouldn't have made a difference against Cotto...but it was still used.

Oh, and D4 please stop making things up. If you read what I'd written you might not have been so quick to make yourself look stupid. Again.

It was Marquez choice to weigh in like that. Theres no rule saying he has to come in heavy. He can come in at whatever weight he feels best at. The purpose of the catchweight is to give him this freedom without feeling he could be potentially outsized badly. He knows Pacquiao weighs about 144/145 in the ring anyway and the biggest difference is that Pacquiao doesnt have to dehydrate down and can just come in at his normal in ring weight. Marquez can safely assume Pacquiao will be about 144/145 on the night and can decide himself what weight to come in at. Chances are, he just wont bother with dehydrating down like he does at lightweight and will just come in at his regular rehydrated weight.

Pacquiao obviously feels best around the 144 mark now and doesnt have to drain himself and rehydrate for fights now. Hence he is choosing that weight without taking any risk of draining himself. It gives him an advantage but thats to be expected given the respective status of the fighters.

The bigger issue is that Pacquaio is just way closer to his best than Marquez is. But there isnt exactly a big queue of guys with better credentials or who have earned a shot more than Marquez that can also sell.

Just one question if their ring weights are the same how has Pacquiao gained an advantage?

Because Pacquiao no longer has to dehydrate himself as he would to make 135 or 140 and then rehydrate up again.

Neither will Marquez

D4thincarnation wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:I'm not interested in pinning the blame on a couple of pounds, bit Marquez DID look soft around the love handles when he fought Mayweather. Again, it all comes down to 'if the extra weight doesn't make a difference, why have it?' Pacquiao ran away from a third fight down at lightweight. Same as he ran away from Mosley when he first challenged Pacquiao. Same as the weight stipulation wouldn't have made a difference against Cotto...but it was still used.

Oh, and D4 please stop making things up. If you read what I'd written you might not have been so quick to make yourself look stupid. Again.

It was Marquez choice to weigh in like that. Theres no rule saying he has to come in heavy. He can come in at whatever weight he feels best at. The purpose of the catchweight is to give him this freedom without feeling he could be potentially outsized badly. He knows Pacquiao weighs about 144/145 in the ring anyway and the biggest difference is that Pacquiao doesnt have to dehydrate down and can just come in at his normal in ring weight. Marquez can safely assume Pacquiao will be about 144/145 on the night and can decide himself what weight to come in at. Chances are, he just wont bother with dehydrating down like he does at lightweight and will just come in at his regular rehydrated weight.

Pacquiao obviously feels best around the 144 mark now and doesnt have to drain himself and rehydrate for fights now. Hence he is choosing that weight without taking any risk of draining himself. It gives him an advantage but thats to be expected given the respective status of the fighters.

The bigger issue is that Pacquaio is just way closer to his best than Marquez is. But there isnt exactly a big queue of guys with better credentials or who have earned a shot more than Marquez that can also sell.

Just one question if their ring weights are the same how has Pacquiao gained an advantage?

Because Pacquiao no longer has to dehydrate himself as he would to make 135 or 140 and then rehydrate up again.

Neither will Marquez

Probably not no, but it doesnt take away from the fact that its an advantage for Pacquiao as the established fighter at welter. In my opinion the closer you get to 135, the more of an advantage it is to Marquez.

So Pacquiao advantage is experience at the weight.

With all the variables in boxing it is a pretty small one.

Berto had more experience than Ortiz at welter, but there were more than enough other factors that ensured a Ortiz win.

IMO people that have a problem with this fight are just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking.

Not saying you are one of them.

http://www.boxingscene.com/marquez-gets-pacquiao-offer-golden-matching-not-likely--39038

Marquez was sent, [Monday morning], the revised offer, which is now the offer that is on the table. We've sent a copy of that revised offer to Golden Boy. While Marquez has that offer now, we understand that he is going to meet with his attorney and they are going to send it to Golden Boy to tell Golden Boy that they have a right to match the offer," Arum told BoxingScene.com.

"If they match the offer, that's up to them, but if they don't match the offer, then we go ahead with the Marquez fight. But our lawyers are monitoring this and want everything to be done legally. They don't have to surpass it, all that they have to do is match it."

Seems like there is a rematch clause on the table as well.

D4thincarnation wrote:So Pacquiao advantage is experience at the weight.

With all the variables in boxing it is a pretty small one.

Berto had more experience than Ortiz at welter, but there were more than enough other factors that ensured a Ortiz win.

IMO people that have a problem with this fight are just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking.

Not saying you are one of them.

I agree there is nit picking going on but clearly you have to give the advantage to Pacquiao the higher up the scales you go. Hes not just more experienced at the weight - hes more proven and has spent more time there to the point where he is basically naturally 144/5 pounds.

Marquez isnt and is used to having to keep his body in line to dehydrae/rehydrate in the last few years. I would prefer if he intended to challenge Pacquiao that he have an interim fight allowing him to grow into the weight more naturally rather than risk screwing up his weight. A fight with Morales or something might make sense. However I can understand he probably doesnt have this luxury.

Pacquiao is the bigger and more natural welter for me although I think only by a few pounds difference which in the great scheme of things shouldnt be the difference between a joke fight and a competitive one. If the fight ended up a close decision then I would accept the weight may have swung it for Pacquiao but if he wins decisively then I think its more to do with timing and current ability (as I do with the Mayweather/Marquez fight).

manos de piedra wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:So Pacquiao advantage is experience at the weight.

With all the variables in boxing it is a pretty small one.

Berto had more experience than Ortiz at welter, but there were more than enough other factors that ensured a Ortiz win.

IMO people that have a problem with this fight are just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking.

Not saying you are one of them.

I agree there is nit picking going on but clearly you have to give the advantage to Pacquiao the higher up the scales you go. Hes not just more experienced at the weight - hes more proven and has spent more time there to the point where he is basically naturally 144/5 pounds.

Marquez isnt and is used to having to keep his body in line to dehydrae/rehydrate in the last few years. I would prefer if he intended to challenge Pacquiao that he have an interim fight allowing him to grow into the weight more naturally rather than risk screwing up his weight. A fight with Morales or something might make sense. However I can understand he probably doesnt have this luxury.

Pacquiao is the bigger and more natural welter for me although I think only by a few pounds difference which in the great scheme of things shouldnt be the difference between a joke fight and a competitive one. If the fight ended up a close decision then I would accept the weight may have swung it for Pacquiao but if he wins decisively then I think its more to do with timing and current ability (as I do with the Mayweather/Marquez fight).

Marquez has a warm up fight lined up in July, he should take the opportunity to take a fight at 140lbs.

Having finally read through the posts, I'd like to back up coxy, despite his aggression! :p The manner of the weight is the key point on the weight issue. There may be 3 or 4 lbs difference on fight night but Pacquiaos weight is made up more of natural muscle he's acquired whereas Marquez has simply rehydrated. The weight has been acquired in different ways by each fighter. To conclude, the fight is effectively a 135lb fighter against a 145lb fighter.
On the flipside, I still think it's a good fight and Marquez will do much better than Pacquiao's last few opponents. However, if the Pacquiao that overpowered Cotto turns up then mid to late stoppage is the only way it's going.

slash912 wrote:Having finally read through the posts, I'd like to back up coxy, despite his aggression! :p The manner of the weight is the key point on the weight issue. There may be 3 or 4 lbs difference on fight night but Pacquiaos weight is made up more of natural muscle he's acquired whereas Marquez has simply rehydrated. The weight has been acquired in different ways by each fighter. To conclude, the fight is effectively a 135lb fighter against a 145lb fighter.
On the flipside, I still think it's a good fight and Marquez will do much better than Pacquiao's last few opponents. However, if the Pacquiao that overpowered Cotto turns up then mid to late stoppage is the only way it's going.

So you think Marquez is incapable of putting on a few pounds of muscle in the time between the fights announcement and it date?

Marquez has similar flexiblity at the weight as Pacquiao. If he wants he can come in a bit lighter than Pacquaio. If he wants he can choose to add some muscle and come in a bit heavier.

The weight favours Pacquiao yes, but its by a matter of a few pounds which should not really be significant to render the fight implausible or a joke.

Manos

Seem to remember everyone calling his decision to come up to face FMJ a joke. And the latter doesn't carry much pop.

I don't see the adv for either party of a LW coming up to face a WW. At the end of the day Marquez's optimum weigh-in weight before taking on fluids is 135lbs, Mannys is 145lbs.

That is the cold hard truth. Marquez may be able to carry 137/138 ok but he certainly won't live with any more beef on his frame as per the FMJ fight where he looked shocking.

The fight becomes a joke because Manny refused to fight him at LW, why choose to fight him now? If you can honestly say that 10lbs in optimum scale weight is ok and doesn't make the fight a joke then by all means think that, i for one think it is a joke because of that.

And as i pointed out earlier, stuffing yourself full of water in 24 hours from 135 to 145 doesn't make you quicker, stronger or more athletic. It's simply hydration to get yourself through the fight and you can bet your bottom dollar Marquez would lose nearly all of that in a 12 round fight, whereas Manny would still be around 143/144 or so due to that being his natural weight vs Marquez's natural weight.

Again, apologies for the vitriol earlier. But this really isn't rocket science. 135 vs 145 in terms of natural optimum scale weight

Marquez has weighed in under the LW limit a few times recently if I am not mistaken. I think he could still make 130 comfortably...

coxy0001 wrote:Manos

Seem to remember everyone calling his decision to come up to face FMJ a joke. And the latter doesn't carry much pop.

I don't see the adv for either party of a LW coming up to face a WW. At the end of the day Marquez's optimum weigh-in weight before taking on fluids is 135lbs, Mannys is 145lbs.

That is the cold hard truth. Marquez may be able to carry 137/138 ok but he certainly won't live with any more beef on his frame as per the FMJ fight where he looked shocking.

The fight becomes a joke because Manny refused to fight him at LW, why choose to fight him now? If you can honestly say that 10lbs in optimum scale weight is ok and doesn't make the fight a joke then by all means think that, i for one think it is a joke because of that.

And as i pointed out earlier, stuffing yourself full of water in 24 hours from 135 to 145 doesn't make you quicker, stronger or more athletic. It's simply hydration to get yourself through the fight and you can bet your bottom dollar Marquez would lose nearly all of that in a 12 round fight, whereas Manny would still be around 143/144 or so due to that being his natural weight vs Marquez's natural weight.

Again, apologies for the vitriol earlier. But this really isn't rocket science. 135 vs 145 in terms of natural optimum scale weight

I dont believe the weight/size difference is as big as you are saying. Marquez currently has to make weight to hit Lightweight. Paquiao doesnt to make welter. As far as I know Pacquiao isnt dehydrated come weigh in time so his in ring weight is similar to his weigh in weight. There wont be 10lbs or anything close to that in difference when they are in the ring. By all accounts their in ring weights are only a few pound apat when fully hydrated. I would say there might be 3/4 lbs difference max.

Marquez only pumps himself full of fluids because he has had to lose all those fluids to make weight. Against Pacquiao he doesnt. He can opt to add muscle and forgoe making 135. I would accept at this stage Pacquiao has more natural bulk but not in significant amount and not relevant enough to be the key factor in the fight. Pacquiao is a small welterweight who doesnt even have to make the limit and weighs in under for virtually every fight. Marquez has to drain himself to make Lightweight. When hes ready to fight he is heavier than 135. I dont see why you are attaching so much significance to him stuffing himself full of water post weigh in because he wont be doing this in this fight and has the freedom to add non hydration weight before the weigh in which he doesnt have at lightweight.

Depending on Marquez, the in ring weight, both hydrated, should only be a few pounds which I dont think makes a monumental difference. The 135 thing doesnt matter now because Marquez wont have to aim to make that weight.

If it transpired that there was a ten pound difference in the ring weight come fight time I would agree that its way too much but my guess is will be be less than half that.

I guess no one had any answers to my previous questions.

Thanks to those who tried to answer them.



To me it seems like Marquez has grown in the last couple of years.

I guess no one could be bothered...answering them..

Pointless exercise for sure..

Maybe coxy thinks Pacquiao is all muscle and his body does not have any water in it when he weighs in at 144-145lbs.

Guess he been fighting severely dehydrated in his past few fights them, no wonder he got cramp.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I guess no one could be bothered...answering them..

Pointless exercise for sure..

A bit like smith machine squats.

You're on fire D4.

Good one .....Pity Strongy isn't here to back you up....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Good one .....Pity Strongy isn't here to back you up....

Don't know how any two people can argue about the same thing over and over again and still never get anywhere.

Go figure??

Good night..................