Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

by super_realist Tue 25 Feb 2014, 3:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

Rugby players are too fat to catch us Davie.

by GunsGerms Thu 10 Apr 2014, 12:53 pm

I cant stand 3d. Makes my brain hurt.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 10 Apr 2014, 12:54 pm

Nice try getting S_R to admit to anything re. his musical tastes.

Dont you think it's kind of ironic that he flays Mac re. Mac's line of employment when Mac doesn't say what he does but refuses to say what bands he himself actually might like?

Re. Ian Watkins and his like. I'm curious. We're so quick to diagnose a mental 'illness' in anyone these days (ADHD, autism, depression etc etc) and yet no-one thinks Watkins might actually have what we, these days, would call a mental illness? Sure, what he did was pretty nasty and I'd much rather he was away from the rest of society, but we have a nice habit of labelling anyone who might have done anything sexually deviant with a minor as simply a 'sicko', 'evil' etc. How very tabloid.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 10 Apr 2014, 12:55 pm

GunsGerms wrote:I cant stand 3d. Makes my brain hurt.

I'm waiting for the law suits. Our brains and optics aren't wired to watch that kind of 3D for extended periods.

by mystiroakey Thu 10 Apr 2014, 12:56 pm

trust me guys- seeing augusta in 3d is like a out of this world.

Only time i use it though.

You really get to see the course for the first time ever.

by mystiroakey Thu 10 Apr 2014, 12:57 pm

navyblueshorts wrote: Nice try getting S_R to admit to anything re. his musical tastes.

Dont you think it's kind of ironic that he flays Mac re. Mac's line of employment when Mac doesn't say what he does but refuses to say what bands he himself actually might like?

Re. Ian Watkins and his like. I'm curious. We're so quick to diagnose a mental 'illness' in anyone these days (ADHD, autism, depression etc etc) and yet no-one thinks Watkins might actually have what we, these days, would call a mental illness? Sure, what he did was pretty nasty and I'd much rather he was away from the rest of society, but we have a nice habit of labelling anyone who might have done anything sexually deviant with a minor as simply a 'sicko', 'evil' etc. How very tabloid.

I agree on all fronts.

by GunsGerms Thu 10 Apr 2014, 1:00 pm

navyblueshorts wrote: Nice try getting S_R to admit to anything re. his musical tastes.

Dont you think it's kind of ironic that he flays Mac re. Mac's line of employment when Mac doesn't say what he does but refuses to say what bands he himself actually might like?

Re. Ian Watkins and his like. I'm curious. We're so quick to diagnose a mental 'illness' in anyone these days (ADHD, autism, depression etc etc) and yet no-one thinks Watkins might actually have what we, these days, would call a mental illness? Sure, what he did was pretty nasty and I'd much rather he was away from the rest of society, but we have a nice habit of labelling anyone who might have done anything sexually deviant with a minor as simply a 'sicko', 'evil' etc. How very tabloid.

Isnt sicko a word that can be used to describe someone mentally ill? He would have to be loco to do what he did and show zero empathy for his actions. One of the definitions of craziness is an inability to relate to others or a lack of normal perception. I say he fits the bill.

by GunsGerms Thu 10 Apr 2014, 1:03 pm

Love this clip:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1CKesTyTpI‎

Luckiest golf shot ever?

by super_realist Thu 10 Apr 2014, 1:03 pm

Got to be careful you don't start excusing actions though on the basis of "illness"

People already try and make excuses for being fat, taking away their own responsibility, I wouldn't want someone like Watkins to be able to do the same.

by mystiroakey Thu 10 Apr 2014, 1:11 pm

He is clearly ill though- but he will go to jail as he doesnt fit the mental illness profile that would stick him in a mental home. He has shown aro empathy.

There are 'pedos' out there that have had themsleves chemically castrated before they have abused any one or abused more without being caught.

What can we say about those people?

They have at least taken responsibility.

This is certainly a touchy subject!

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 10 Apr 2014, 1:35 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Isnt sicko a word that can be used to describe someone mentally ill? He would have to be loco to do what he did and show zero empathy for his actions. One of the definitions of craziness is an inability to relate to others or a lack of normal perception. I say he fits the bill.

In a perjorative sense, yes. It's what I expect of the tabloid red-tops and the Rebekah Brooks of the World.

super_realist wrote:Got to be careful you don't start excusing actions though on the basis of "illness"

People already try and make excuses for being fat, taking away their own responsibility, I wouldn't want someone like Watkins to be able to do the same.

Maybe. Not really the same though. I don't see many people saying that being fat (as in, the act of getting fat) is a medical condition though.

mystiroakey wrote:...This is certainly a touchy subject!

Which is why it's far easier to label someone as 'evil' or a 'sicko' than it is to have a reasonable discussion about the possibilities in cases like this. Heaven help some people if they had to accept that one of their 'sickos' might not actually have been in much of a position to help themselves! The planet would probably stop rotating on its axis.

by mystiroakey Thu 10 Apr 2014, 1:38 pm

well yeah I labelled him a 'monster' rather than mentally ill.

I think the guy is mentally ill- end of story- but i also think you have no one to blame but yourself if you hurt another even if you are attracted to certain things and drawn into things taboo even if you are ill

by incontinentia Thu 10 Apr 2014, 1:47 pm

navy wrote:Re. Ian Watkins and his like. I'm curious. We're so quick to diagnose a mental 'illness' in anyone these days (ADHD, autism, depression etc etc) and yet no-one thinks Watkins might actually have what we, these days, would call a mental illness? Sure, what he did was pretty nasty and I'd much rather he was away from the rest of society, but we have a nice habit of labelling anyone who might have done anything sexually deviant with a minor as simply a 'sicko', 'evil' etc. How very tabloid.

Interesting, but I think if sexual deviances were labelled as mental illness then that would include homosexuality, and that wouldn't be right.

by mystiroakey Thu 10 Apr 2014, 1:50 pm

Illness, preference- whatever it boils down to everyone being different...

The key problem is if you hurt another.

If being attracted to children is a genetic thing like most associate homosexuality to be rather than a choice- we can call it a mental illness but leave homosexuality as 'normal'.

by MontysMerkin Thu 10 Apr 2014, 1:59 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Illness, preference- whatever it boils down to everyone being different...

The key problem is if you hurt another.

If being attracted to children is a genetic thing like most associate homosexuality to be rather than a choice- we can call it a mental illness but leave homosexuality as 'normal'.

If homosexuality was genetic, do you not think Darwinism would have not stepped in by now?

by mystiroakey Thu 10 Apr 2014, 2:02 pm

MontysMerkin wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Illness, preference- whatever it boils down to everyone being different...

The key problem is if you hurt another.

If being attracted to children is a genetic thing like most associate homosexuality to be rather than a choice- we can call it a mental illness but leave homosexuality as 'normal'.
If homosexuality was genetic, do you not think Darwinism would have not stepped in by now?

you think its a choice do you?

you are 100% on that yeah?

I dont know and dont care.

I have no problem with homosexuality whether its genetic or not.

My guess would be its nuture and nature, some could be born gay, some may learn to be gay.

No one knows, no one will ever know but we do know it happens in t he animal communities as well. so why would it be any different to humans.

Homosexuals hate it being labelled as a choice.. To be honest I dont care what they think, however what does it matter If they dont hurt anyone

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 10 Apr 2014, 2:09 pm

incontinentia wrote:
navy wrote:Re. Ian Watkins and his like. I'm curious. We're so quick to diagnose a mental 'illness' in anyone these days (ADHD, autism, depression etc etc) and yet no-one thinks Watkins might actually have what we, these days, would call a mental illness? Sure, what he did was pretty nasty and I'd much rather he was away from the rest of society, but we have a nice habit of labelling anyone who might have done anything sexually deviant with a minor as simply a 'sicko', 'evil' etc. How very tabloid.
Interesting, but I think if sexual deviances were labelled as mental illness then that would include homosexuality, and that wouldn't be right.

There's good evidence and some pretty plausible explanations re. homosexuality in an increasing number of species. That case is closed.

MontysMerkin wrote:If homosexuality was genetic, do you not think Darwinism would have not stepped in by now?

It has. Long since. See above. I'll dig out links to published research if you want more...

mystiroakey wrote:The key problem is if you hurt another.

A key concept I think but confused and confusing. What we, in society as it currently is, label as 'hurt' though is interesting. Often it's not a physical 'hurt' and it's only then a mental/behavioural 'hurt' because the person affected then sees what happens to them as abnormal/degrading/whatever. Bit of a catch 22.

by McLaren Thu 10 Apr 2014, 2:13 pm

Navy

I am not doubting what you say, and in fact have heard it mentioned many times that there are genetic and Darwinian explanations of homosexuality in many species. But could you post the links to the articles you mentioned as I would be interested in reading them. Thanks.

by MontysMerkin Thu 10 Apr 2014, 2:14 pm

I think if you went into places where large groups of men are confined together, you would find that many would succumb to their sexual urges. Obviously those that have not enjoyed a ladies company for some time would be the first to fold.

by MontysMerkin Thu 10 Apr 2014, 2:16 pm

Personally I believe it's just a subtle mutation in some gene or other. Bit like being big hootered, or having red hair. Or under 6ft for a male.

by incontinentia Thu 10 Apr 2014, 2:22 pm

My theory is that homosexuality is mother nature's attempt at population control as humans have become too numerous. I had no idea it existed in other species.

by GunsGerms Thu 10 Apr 2014, 2:43 pm

incontinentia wrote:My theory is that homosexuality is mother nature's attempt at population control as humans have become too numerous. I had no idea it existed in other species.

It does but humans are the only species to discriminate against homosexuals.

by GunsGerms Thu 10 Apr 2014, 2:44 pm

MontysMerkin wrote:
If homosexuality was genetic, do you not think Darwinism would have not stepped in by now?

That's a pretty good point actually.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:06 pm

McLaren wrote:Navy

I am not doubting what you say, and in fact have heard it mentioned many times that there are genetic and Darwinian explanations of homosexuality in many species. But could you post the links to the articles you mentioned as I would be interested in reading them. Thanks.

Bonobos are the famous example and bottlenose dolphins seem to have a blast. I wouldn't normally suggest Wiki as an authoratative source, but it's a place to start and its sources are cited, some of them pretty good:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

Numerous models involving directed mutations in mice and fruit flies as well as the observations of its occurence in the wild. As for the Darwinian reasons, I'm not an expert at all but there's been suggestions around conflict resolution, strengthening social ties within groups and offspring nurture in large families.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:09 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
MontysMerkin wrote:
If homosexuality was genetic, do you not think Darwinism would have not stepped in by now?

That's a pretty good point actually.

It is? How so? Darwinian selection has almost certainly created/maintained such relationships. Bonobos (our closest, living relative) get up to all sorts. There's pretty good evidence that not engaging in homosexual relationships within a Bonobo group would mitigate against that strict heterosexual member being able to mate with anyone.

by MontysMerkin Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:10 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
MontysMerkin wrote:
If homosexuality was genetic, do you not think Darwinism would have not stepped in by now?

That's a pretty good point actually.
It is? How so? Darwinian selection has almost certainly created/maintained such relationships. Bonobos (our closest, living relative) get up to all sorts. There's pretty good evidence that not engaging in homosexual relationships within a Bonobo group would mitigate against that strict heterosexual member being able to mate with anyone.

But they do mate with females? Bi curious one would imagine?

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:22 pm

MontysMerkin wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
MontysMerkin wrote:
If homosexuality was genetic, do you not think Darwinism would have not stepped in by now?

That's a pretty good point actually.
It is? How so? Darwinian selection has almost certainly created/maintained such relationships. Bonobos (our closest, living relative) get up to all sorts. There's pretty good evidence that not engaging in homosexual relationships within a Bonobo group would mitigate against that strict heterosexual member being able to mate with anyone.
But they do mate with females? Bi curious one would imagine?

I guess so. Think penguins are an example where same sex pairs have been noted to not mate with the opposite sex once in a same sex pair. Might be wrong...my memory gets worse by the year!
One could imagine a situation, way back when we roamed the plains hunting and gathering, that all-male hunting groups might benefit from a bit of bromance as reinforcing strong bonds with such a group. Wasn't it the Spartans who encouraged their elite forces to be homosexual? Makes some sense - you might expect someone to go the extra mile to help/protect/rescue their partner.
I have a nasty suspicion that we might be able to blame homophobia across the ages on religions...

by GunsGerms Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:28 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
MontysMerkin wrote:
If homosexuality was genetic, do you not think Darwinism would have not stepped in by now?

That's a pretty good point actually.
It is? How so? Darwinian selection has almost certainly created/maintained such relationships. Bonobos (our closest, living relative) get up to all sorts. There's pretty good evidence that not engaging in homosexual relationships within a Bonobo group would mitigate against that strict heterosexual member being able to mate with anyone.

In theory yes. Homosexuals and bi sexual populations are statistically less likely to have offspring than hetero sexual populations so in theory over time if it was a genetic trait it should as a trait gradually reduce and die out shouldn't it? Not exactly the same as natural selection but along the same lines.

by mystiroakey Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:30 pm

Could someone please explain to me why the Oscar trial is on every other minute on sky sports news.

What the heck has it got to do with sports!

Its just News.

SKY I DON'T CARE. Its not SPORT!!

by GunsGerms Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:32 pm

some good links for the masters online. Coverage has started already.

Love "working" from home.

by incontinentia Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:34 pm

cos he was an athlete??

by mystiroakey Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:35 pm

incontinentia wrote:cos he was an athlete??

its not sports news.

its news

SKY Sports just filling up with crap due to a link in his career

by super_realist Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:36 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
incontinentia wrote:cos he was an athlete??

its not sports news.

its news

SKY Sports just filling up with crap due to a link in his career

I'm rather bored with the Malaysian missing flight too and HIllsborough dragged up all the time.

by GunsGerms Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:37 pm

Some fairly strong emotions from Pistorious. Starting to feel sorry for him.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:44 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
MontysMerkin wrote:
If homosexuality was genetic, do you not think Darwinism would have not stepped in by now?

That's a pretty good point actually.
It is? How so? Darwinian selection has almost certainly created/maintained such relationships. Bonobos (our closest, living relative) get up to all sorts. There's pretty good evidence that not engaging in homosexual relationships within a Bonobo group would mitigate against that strict heterosexual member being able to mate with anyone.

In theory yes. Homosexuals and bi sexual populations are statistically less likely to have offspring than hetero sexual populations so in theory over time if it was a genetic trait it should as a trait gradually reduce and die out shouldn't it? Not exactly the same as natural selection but along the same lines.

Hmm. Not sure it's as clear cut as that though. You're talking about a single species in its own niche. So it has less offspring than a purely heterosexual one in a parallel universe would have had - I'm not sure that matters. If the act of homosexuality is an evolutionary positive (and it's almost all unknown on this sort of thing) overall, I can't see why a species numbering in the billions can't tolerate a significant minority that are homo- or bi-sexual.

by beninho Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:45 pm

Sky SPorts news is filled with interviews with monosyllabic footballers and goals from the rubbish leagues 1,2 and scotland. So some actual news is good to see on it.

He deserves prison for crying so much! I think he is guilty, from my non expert POV, especially the shooting a watermelon and mentioning shooting a brain. God the Saffer accent is horrible though.

And if the Hillsborough thing was not dragged up all the time, they may have got away with the massive cover up.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:47 pm

super_realist wrote:I'm rather bored with the Malaysian missing flight too and HIllsborough dragged up all the time.

Definitely bored with the Malaysian flight drama but quite interested in the Hillsborough outcome; especially want to find out just how corrupt our cops were over that.

GunsGerms wrote:Some fairly strong emotions from Pistorious. Starting to feel sorry for him.

Maybe he's a good actor? That said, the vomiting is taking his role a bit seriously maybe...

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:50 pm

beninho wrote:...He deserves prison for crying so much! I think he is guilty, from my non expert POV, especially the shooting a watermelon and mentioning shooting a brain. God the Saffer accent is horrible though...

Not sure how someone who mentions a melon being blown to bits by a gunshot might resemble how a brain would behave (I'm sure it would) becomes "Guilty M'lud". Would have hoped there was a lot better evidence than that!

by GunsGerms Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:53 pm

I don't think he is acting re the emotion he is showing. I do think he is guilty though and not telling the whole truth.

by mystiroakey Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:53 pm

Oh here we go- Now this place is filling up with Oscar as well..

by incontinentia Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:54 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Some fairly strong emotions from Pistorious. Starting to feel sorry for him.

I felt sorry for him at first but the fact that he can't give straight answers to the most basic of questions is becoming very irritating

by GunsGerms Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:55 pm

Jonas Blixt leads the way on -3

by mystiroakey Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:57 pm

guns get on the masters thread if you haven't allready

by GunsGerms Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:58 pm

Is the prediction one? I put in one already.

by mystiroakey Thu 10 Apr 2014, 3:58 pm

no kwinis masters thread

by GunsGerms Thu 10 Apr 2014, 4:03 pm

Oh cool thanks. Hadnt noticed it.

by GunsGerms Thu 10 Apr 2014, 7:05 pm

Super realist is this you in the crowd in this clip?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SL-F7u3b3Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Not sure if anyone has posted this before. Look out for Gmacs reaction. Priceless.

by pedro Thu 10 Apr 2014, 9:05 pm

Didn't know gmac was left handed...

by SmithersJones Fri 11 Apr 2014, 10:43 am

Anyone spotted any rebellious left to right hitters lately?

by mystiroakey Fri 11 Apr 2014, 10:53 am

Guns - That mashed potato line is just what certain lower class yanks say- I dont think there is anything anti irish about it.

Its just a hick shout for smashing the ball.

Its one of the 3 main shouts used with "get in the hole" and "your the man"

by super_realist Fri 11 Apr 2014, 10:56 am

THey should be shot on sight.

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