HEC Semi-Final Toulon v Munster, Stade Velodrome, Marseille

KO 16.30 (local time; 15.30 YTC) Sunday April 27th.  Yet another Day of Destiny for Munster Rugby.

So far the only participants we know for definite are
Referee:  Wayne Barnes

ARs:  JP Doyle; Luke Pearce

TMO: Graham Hughes.

All the officials are from England.

Friday 25th - edited with team announcements.

Toulon
Delon Armitage;
Drew Mitchell, Mathieu Bastareaud, Matt Giteau, Bryan Habana;
Jonny Wilkinson (c), Sebastien Tillous-Borde;
Xavier Chiocci, Craig Burden, Carl Hayman,
Danie Rossouw, Jocelino Suta,
Juan Smith, Juan Fernandez Lobbe, Steffon Armitage.
Remplaçants : Jean-Charles Orioli, Alexandre Menini, Martin Castrogiovanni, Virgile Bruni, David Smith, Maxime Mermoz, Michael Claassens, Konstantine Mikautadze.

Munster
Felix Jones;
Keith Earls, Casey Laulala, James Downey, Simon Zebo;
Ian Keatley, Conor Murray;
Dave Kilcoyne, Damien Varley Capt., BJ Botha;
Dave Foley, Paul O'Connell;
CJ Stander, Sean Dougall, James Coughlan.
Replacements: Duncan Casey, James Cronin, John Ryan, Donncha O'Callaghan, Tommy O'Donnell, Duncan Williams, JJ Hanrahan, Denis Hurley.

As my stomach is already churning when I think of Sunday, I thought I would start the ball rolling on the topic.

Munster Abú

Excitement is building early - some of the red hordes are already on the way to Marseilles!

Munster need to recall the game against clermont where nobody gave us a chance! Exact same situation this year only we have fully functioning scrum better line out and more confidence and belief!

Given how easily Toulon dispensed of Leinster you'd be worried for Munster but that's just the way we like it!

Saw a comment on The Score, BM, from a fan who said she would be watching from behind her hands - I understand the feeling.

The Score's "predictions" (really why anyone who is still in it can win it) are here
http://www.thescore.ie/why-munster-will-win-heineken-cup-1422269-Apr2014/

Munster probably have a better pack to front up against Toulon than Leinster had in the previous round. Don't make silly handling errors. Have solid set pieces. This Toulon side always strikes me as a team that doesn't play to the sum of their parts. But what they do is pounce on any indecision or mistakes by opponents.

The game is in the slightly more neutral Marseilles. Munster will have good travelling support. Munster should produce a good forward display. It requires good kicking displays by Keatley and Murray. And crucially good kick chase as well.

The more I think about the game the more I think Munster could pull something out of the bag.

Then I read JW is expected to be fit and Habana is back after a niggling 4 month thigh strain. I start to doubt a little.

Feck it.... Munster by 4 points in a nail-bitter!

My Munster team if all fit

Killer
Varley
BJ
Poc
Dave foley
CJ
Tod
Coughlan
Murray
Keatley
VDH
Downey
Lualua
Earls
Zebo

I hope Munster can win this,it would be a massive achievement,unfortunately I'm not confident as PoM is just too big of a loss imo.

I reckon POM isnt that big a loss because Munster could just push this Toulon team to the wire if they play a tactically sensible game.

Would love to see Toulon win this one as I want to see Wilko (once more) before he retires.
C'mon RCT   

They play such painfully boring rugby though? They would make a good AP team.

I dunno,while Stander had a great game the last day against Toulouse he hasn't shown the ability to do that consistently.He was very poor against Glasgow and I'd fear he could be a weak link as he is not used to playing games of this magnitude.

GunsGerms wrote:They play such painfully boring rugby though? They would make a good AP team.

I take it you haven't watched any Jeff games then, what a Fozzie Bear you are!   

Ap is much less boring the last year or two.

I just hope for a good entertaining game and hope whoever plays the most attacking rugby wins.

TJ wrote:
I just hope for a good entertaining game and hope whoever plays the most attacking rugby wins.

   Thats all any fan wishes for.


I just don't understand why Guns needed to have a dig at the AP?

GunsGerms wrote:I reckon POM isnt that big a loss because Munster could just push this Toulon team to the wire if they play a tactically sensible game.

Your probably the only person in Ireland who thinks Pom is not a big loss,

If you have a defeatest attitude like that you may as well not show up. Heineken cups are always squad efforts. Stander will be chomping at the bit. Give him some credit?

Scrumpy wrote:

TJ wrote:
I just hope for a good entertaining game and hope whoever plays the most attacking rugby wins.

   Thats all any fan wishes for.


I just don't understand why Guns needed to have a dig at the AP?

Toulon are a lot like an AP side. 10 man boring rugby. A team that buys titles like Saracens. There is a lot of symmetry between those two teams. For the good of European rugby I hope they both get hockeyed.

Scrumpy wrote:

TJ wrote:
I just hope for a good entertaining game and hope whoever plays the most attacking rugby wins.

   Thats all any fan wishes for.


I just don't understand why Guns needed to have a dig at the AP?

It's a tradition in the same way cato the elder finished every speech with "Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

GunsGerms wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:

TJ wrote:
I just hope for a good entertaining game and hope whoever plays the most attacking rugby wins.

   Thats all any fan wishes for.


I just don't understand why Guns needed to have a dig at the AP?

Toulon are a lot like an AP side. 10 man boring rugby. A team that buys titles like Saracens. There is a lot of symmetry between those two teams. For the good of European rugby I hope they both get hockeyed.

Sheer arrogance!

Pipe down Guns you're making Munster fans look bad.

Scrumpy wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:

TJ wrote:
I just hope for a good entertaining game and hope whoever plays the most attacking rugby wins.

   Thats all any fan wishes for.


I just don't understand why Guns needed to have a dig at the AP?

Toulon are a lot like an AP side. 10 man boring rugby. A team that buys titles like Saracens. There is a lot of symmetry between those two teams. For the good of European rugby I hope they both get hockeyed.

Sheer arrogance!

Pipe down Guns you're making Munster fans look bad.

Scrumpy guns is an out and out Leinster supporter who politely putting it hates Munster

Is he, I never would have guessed!   

Looks like johnny will definitely start on Sunday bakkies Botha and Ali Williams will most likely not play as neither has played for a couple of months so bench spots at best I reckon

Scrumpy wrote:
Sheer arrogance!

Pipe down Guns you're making Munster fans look bad.

Where is the arrogance? Its true no?

I'd be fairly confident that Toulon and Saracens are two of the least popular teams in Europe now. That will always the be case when teams have lots of mercenaries and buy titles. Furthermore, Edward Griffiths and Mourad Boudjellal seem to be cut from the same cloth and seem to have worringly similar visions for the game.

BlueMuff wrote:Looks like johnny will definitely start on Sunday

Great news   

BlueMuff wrote:
Scrumpy guns is an out and out Leinster supporter who politely putting it hates Munster

I   Munster   

GunsGerms wrote:
Where is the arrogance? Its true no?

No, it's not true.

Half 4 on a Sunday has got to be one of the worst times for a HK semi final ever.

Or is that local time?

Saracens have been playing some very nice entertaining rugby - I have enjoyed watching them this season. Toulon are a bit dull at times and love to see them beaten for the dull defensive rugby they play.

I think Munster can win this - they just seem to have that bit extra in "passion" that could see them thru

GunsGerms wrote:I reckon POM isnt that big a loss because Munster could just push this Toulon team to the wire if they play a tactically sensible game.

Yawn...

RDW_Scotland wrote:Half 4 on a Sunday has got to be one of the worst times for a HK semi final ever.

Or is that local time?

It is local time, kickoff is 3:30 UTC

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I reckon POM isnt that big a loss because Munster could just push this Toulon team to the wire if they play a tactically sensible game.

Yawn...

Why dont you think Munster can win if they play smart?

BlueMuff wrote:My Munster team if all fit

Killer
Varley
BJ
Poc
Dave foley
CJ
Tod
Coughlan
Murray
Keatley
VDH
Downey
Lualua
Earls
Zebo

Would like to see that team as well but I think he will still pick Felix. Not sure what the injury update on Casey, Ryan, Cronin or JJ is. The presumption is that Casey will start all the other three are iffy.

CJ has a big game to play and hopefully we see more of the Toulouse form than the last two. Strauss handed him his ass on a plate for the Glasgow game and he drifted in and out of the Connacht game...

Potentially losing Laulala is far worse then losing POM. If Laulala's gone or not fully fit we're in trouble. We've a replacement for POM who is more than capable can't say the same for Laulala (and before someone says Earls yeah he is good but odds are Casey will get flattened by Basteraud so Earls probably would too).

Stander is a gifted player, who found it tough to get into the team under Penney. But the guy is very talented. I'm surprised CJ signed a new deal if I'm honest. Guys like Butler, Dougal (love him as a 7 would love to see him stay) and Dave O'Callaghan are going to find it tough next year with Copeland.

Thomond wrote:Potentially losing Laulala is far worse then losing POM. If Laulala's gone or not fully fit we're in trouble. We've a replacement for POM who is more than capable can't say the same for Laulala (and before someone says Earls yeah he is good but odds are Casey will get flattened by Basteraud so Earls probably would too).

Stander is a gifted player, who found it tough to get into the team under Penney. But the guy is very talented. I'm surprised CJ signed a new deal if I'm honest. Guys like Butler, Dougal (love him as a 7 would love to see him stay) and Dave O'Callaghan  are going to find it tough next year with Copeland.

100%. Munster dont lose a lot with Stander slotting in.

GunsGerms wrote:

Thomond wrote:Potentially losing Laulala is far worse then losing POM. If Laulala's gone or not fully fit we're in trouble. We've a replacement for POM who is more than capable can't say the same for Laulala (and before someone says Earls yeah he is good but odds are Casey will get flattened by Basteraud so Earls probably would too).

Stander is a gifted player, who found it tough to get into the team under Penney. But the guy is very talented. I'm surprised CJ signed a new deal if I'm honest. Guys like Butler, Dougal (love him as a 7 would love to see him stay) and Dave O'Callaghan  are going to find it tough next year with Copeland.

100%. Munster dont lose a lot with Stander slotting in.

You didnt see the Glasgow game then Guns....  

Earls will be fine if required Thomond I am sure that they will have some sort of game plan for mr basteraud...

Agree thomond I also don't think earls is not a centre! Pom is a natural leader though and he brings a huge amount of intensity that seems to rub off on other players. He is also insane at the breakdown!

CJ has his strengths though and I'm confident he will throw in a big performance. In the absence of Pom it's up to the likes of killer Varley and of course Poc to lead from the front!

I'm sure Munster studied the Leinster match and there is a lot to learn from the way they approached that game! Munster on the other hand are fairly predictable so it's just a matter if Toulon can counter our maul scrum and line out! Sounds easy.....

I would be more concerned with how Armitage is dealt with...TOD will need to be back to his best.

ME-109 wrote:
You didnt see the Glasgow game then Guns....  

Earls will be fine if required Thomond I am sure that they will have some sort of game plan for mr basteraud...

Saw some of it. What are you saying it would all have been different if POM was playing? Munster havent been great in their last four league games except possibly v Leinster which they still lost. Dont think their form in the league is Stander's fault.

BlueMuff wrote:Agree thomond I also don't think earls is not a centre! Pom is a natural leader though and he brings a huge amount of intensity that seems to rub off on other players. He is also insane at the breakdown!

CJ has his strengths though and I'm confident he will throw in a big performance. In the absence of Pom it's up to the likes of killer Varley and of course Poc to lead from the front!

I'm sure Munster studied the Leinster match and there is a lot to learn from the way they approached that game! Munster on the other hand are fairly predictable so it's just a matter if Toulon can counter our maul scrum and line out! Sounds easy.....

I agree with all of that. Really gutted about POM's injury. I presume he will be one of the water carriers for the game. After his injury, Penney said he would continue to be heavily involved with analysis etc. so he will be in Marseille leading from the sidelines.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:
You didnt see the Glasgow game then Guns....  

Earls will be fine if required Thomond I am sure that they will have some sort of game plan for mr basteraud...

Saw some of it. What are you saying it would all have been different if POM was playing? Munster havent been great in their last four league games except possibly v Leinster which they still lost. Dont think their form in the league is Stander's fault.

Aren't you forgetting the Treviso match surely worth another mention   

BlueMuff wrote:
Aren't you forgetting the Treviso match surely worth another mention   

That was one of the last four games Muff.




Good win by Leinster on the weekend wasnt it? Leinster Rugby 62 - 7 Benetton Treviso

Good to see Treviso taking the Rabo seriously!   

BlueMuff wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:
You didnt see the Glasgow game then Guns....  

Earls will be fine if required Thomond I am sure that they will have some sort of game plan for mr basteraud...

Saw some of it. What are you saying it would all have been different if POM was playing? Munster havent been great in their last four league games except possibly v Leinster which they still lost. Dont think their form in the league is Stander's fault.

Aren't you forgetting the Treviso match surely worth another mention   

The difference is the leadership aspect which BM pointed out with regards to POM (and POC). They are both 24/25 (CJ and POM) but thats where the similarity ends. Even for the Toulouse game after POM played on with one arm for about 15 minutes our worst period was the 20 mins up to half time. I expect Stander to do well he wont be a weak link or anything, he just doesnt bring the same as POM...am sure even you could admit that (pigs might fly as well)

All I said is POM isnt that big a loss with Stander there to deputise. Thats more or less what you have just said.

JJ and Cronin havent been ruled out yet and no word on Ryan so the possibility of having our strongest bench available would make a big difference......

TOD hasnt been the same since his involvement with Ireland and was ordinary enough against Toulouse (except for his defense)....

I wonder will he still pick Earls/Zebo/Jones.....

ME-109 wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:
You didnt see the Glasgow game then Guns....  

Earls will be fine if required Thomond I am sure that they will have some sort of game plan for mr basteraud...

Saw some of it. What are you saying it would all have been different if POM was playing? Munster havent been great in their last four league games except possibly v Leinster which they still lost. Dont think their form in the league is Stander's fault.

Aren't you forgetting the Treviso match surely worth another mention   

The difference is the leadership aspect which BM pointed out with regards to POM (and POC). They are both 24/25 (CJ and POM) but thats where the similarity ends. Even for the Toulouse game after POM played on with one arm for about 15 minutes our worst period was the 20 mins up to half time. I expect Stander to do well he wont be a weak link or anything, he just doesnt bring the same as POM...am sure even you could admit that (pigs might fly as well)

Another thing you lose is the impact Stander brings off the bench,not sure who'll be your backrow sub but I don't know if there's anyone that can change a game if needed.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:
You didnt see the Glasgow game then Guns....  

Earls will be fine if required Thomond I am sure that they will have some sort of game plan for mr basteraud...

Saw some of it. What are you saying it would all have been different if POM was playing? Munster havent been great in their last four league games except possibly v Leinster which they still lost. Dont think their form in the league is Stander's fault.

Aren't you forgetting the Treviso match surely worth another mention   

The difference is the leadership aspect which BM pointed out with regards to POM (and POC). They are both 24/25 (CJ and POM) but thats where the similarity ends. Even for the Toulouse game after POM played on with one arm for about 15 minutes our worst period was the 20 mins up to half time. I expect Stander to do well he wont be a weak link or anything, he just doesnt bring the same as POM...am sure even you could admit that (pigs might fly as well)

Another thing you lose is the impact Stander brings off the bench,not sure who'll be your backrow sub but I don't know if there's anyone that can change a game if needed.

By the look of things it will probably be Butler...he got MOTM last weekend (although it should have gone to Conway). He is similar but at the moment (in terms of form) an even poorer mans version...we are lucky that DOC is in great form so the issue of Ryan missing isnt that big and Foley has been excellent. Big thing really is having Cronin fit. A bench of Williams, Murphy/Vdh, JJ, Cronin, Ryan, Casey, DOC, Butler would be nice to have.

Squad update from Munster site

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/18378.php#.U1eIuFdkK40

The Munster squad held their training session in Musgrave Park today in preparation for Sunday's Heineken Cup semi-final against Toulon.
It was a busy morning with the first full squad training session of the week, and an equally busy afternoon with players and management up for the weekly media briefing.

Captain Peter O'Mahony was in attendance at today's practice keeping a close eye on his colleagues as they were put through their paces for the trip to Marseille.

It was positive news for the group with the return of Casey Laulala (hand) and James Cronin (sprained ankle) at training today.

Cronin returned to scrum sessions at the end of last week but made a full return to training today, while Casey Laulala has recovered from a fractured bone in his hand to make himself available for selection this weekend.

Rob Penney hailed JJ Hanrahan's rehab progress as "miraculous" as the young out-half continues to recover from groin injury. The Head Coach said "there is a slight possibility that he may be in contention later in the week. It'll be a big ask to get him anywhere near Sunday but it possibly could happen."

Donnacha Ryan took part in partial training today and he will continue to be assessed as the week continues. Talking about a possible return for the Tipperary man Penney added "It's very much dependent upon how he comes through the next few days, as to whether he'll be a possible option, but he's not out of the reckoning either."

Rob also spoke about the task ahead, with Munster facing the reigning Champions on Sunday in Marseille. "Toulon are a great side and deserve all the plaudits they receive. We will have to be at our very best and that may not be even good enough but we'll throw ourselves into it and give it a good crack.

"It's an exciting week and I just hope the lads enjoy it, and the experience. We've just got to get the whole team on the same page and committed on the same level in order to achieve a positive outcome this weekend."

I am always impressed with the lengths to which Munster supporters will go to support their team. Saw this on Munster Rugby Supporters Club London Branch FB feed

Travelling cork to Dublin fri night, flying Dublin to gatwick sat morn, gatwick to nice and car hire and roadtrip from Nice to marseille sat eve

I guess she loves her rugby.

Anything to save a few euros. Credit to her.

Who was the back up out half last week?