The Official Irish Provinces Rugby Thread

[Notch]

First topic message reminder :

Fans of Ulster, Leinster, Munster and Connacht unite! A place is here to talk of your teams.

Discuss the Pro12 run-in, the provinces prospects in Europe next season, the tour to Argentina and why we're generally just the best. I mean, just how great are we? Lets talk about that.

But mainly whatever feckin' thing comes into your head!

[geoff998rugby]

I'm afraid Nick Williams is 2016. His stock has fallen somewhat since signing the deal. Hope he recaptures the form and work ethic of his first season.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24365053

Not what I have been told

Edit: Just realized if it was a 2 year extension you must be right - oh bugger !

When Anscombe goes I don't think he will survive anyway regardless of contract - I hope   

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Well Botha is a TH not a LH. 2 x props. Semantics no biggie
Hogg will be signing - another 15 Official now? Anyway Kirchner can be named 14

You are always going to get a spread but
3 in 2 positions
8 in 1 position
4 in 0 posiitions

No idea what this means

suggests to me the idea has manifestly been debunked Completely disagree but as I said it is a guideline. would not be surprised to see it set aside to some degree



Nick Williams is 2015 by the way not 2016You sure?

Would not be surprised if Williams does not see out his contract tbh. After the season he has had and his misdemeanours.

[geoff998rugby]

LH - TH no bigger - you sure - ask Tom Court   

The figures show that this non existant guidelines is broken as much as it is observed.
As you will see I believe there is an agreement but this is not part of it

[Sin é]

Someone in the know on Munsterfans posted that Munster were allowed sign Tyler Bleyendaal on the condition that he played in the centre (mostly likely 12), but definately not at 10 unless in an emergency when they have to seek the permission from the IRFU to play him there.

[rodders]

Someone in the know on Munsterfans posted that Munster were allowed sign Tyler Bleyendaal on the condition that he played in the centre (mostly likely 12), but definately not at 10 unless in an emergency when they have to seek the permission from the IRFU to play him there.

I heard that Nick Williams has to play 6 on the weekends that Stander plays 8.






ok I made that up.

[ME-109]

Someone in the know on Munsterfans posted that Munster were allowed sign Tyler Bleyendaal on the condition that he played in the centre (mostly likely 12), but definately not at 10 unless in an emergency when they have to seek the permission from the IRFU to play him there.

That was fairly clear from when he signed. Always a 12....obviously his preferred position as well.

[Sin é]

Someone in the know on Munsterfans posted that Munster were allowed sign Tyler Bleyendaal on the condition that he played in the centre (mostly likely 12), but definately not at 10 unless in an emergency when they have to seek the permission from the IRFU to play him there.

That was fairly clear from when he signed. Always a 12....obviously his preferred position  as well.

He always plays 10. I can't find a single occasion when he started a game at 12.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

LH - TH no bigger - you sure - ask Tom Court   

The figures show that this non existant guidelines is broken as much as it is observed.
As you will see I believe there is an agreement but this is not part of it

Now you are just being silly.

2 props = 2 props. A bit of flexibility on the "guidelines" as I have said. Munster had to dump duPreez a year early to keep Botha, and Ulster were let sign Herbst as a project.

Not sure which "figures" you are on about. Much less what they "show"

What you "believe" may or may not be true.

What I "believe" is that those "guidelines" are a template which can be strayed from on a case by case basis, not that they are completely out the window.

I think the "figures" i.e the list of players currently on the books bear this out. Despite your minor niggles with them.

[ME-109]

Someone in the know on Munsterfans posted that Munster were allowed sign Tyler Bleyendaal on the condition that he played in the centre (mostly likely 12), but definately not at 10 unless in an emergency when they have to seek the permission from the IRFU to play him there.

That was fairly clear from when he signed. Always a 12....obviously his preferred position  as well.

He always plays 10. I can't find a single occasion when he started a game at 12.

No, but clearly he wants to play there if coming to Munster and want to develop in that position. I would expect him to play like Giteau does for Toulon..also given this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijLE0dE6jpw maybe he isnt that much of a natural kicker...

[Notch]

I'm afraid Nick Williams is 2016. His stock has fallen somewhat since signing the deal. Hope he recaptures the form and work ethic of his first season.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24365053

Not what I have been told

Edit: Just realized if it was a 2 year extension you must be right - oh bugger !

When Anscombe goes I don't think he will survive anyway regardless of contract - I hope   

I don't know what the doubt is Geoff- you've got David Humphreys in the press at the time the new contract was announced saying 'I'm delighted he's committed to Ulster until 2016.' Pretty clear cut!

Maybe the confusion is that it's a two year extension starting from this off-season not the start of this season just past when it was announced? He still has two seasons left to go. If he pulls that stunt where he disappears for a week without telling the coaches when there's a game on again I imagine he'll be gone no matter what. Otherwise, well, we have to honour the contract right?

[geoff998rugby]

He'll be shipped out somehow mark my words - going awol again will help provide an excuse.

He is only here because of Anscombe's protective wing.
Without that he is finished.

Fopr some reason I thought the announcement was August but it was October -hence the confusion regarding where 2 years took us.

Have to say I think Humphreys should have insisted on 1 year only - but maybe that is being wise after the event. In truth he is another like Hogg - a cheap NIQ

In fact we have gone from 3 expensive NIQ to 1 for next year - sign of the times.

[geoff998rugby]

Jennifer as I said I believe these are the new guidelines

Reduce the money spent on NIQ
Reduce the number of NIQ
Each case to be discuss on its individual merits
Put in place a system where players moved between provinces more
No restrictions regarding position as long as it does not adversely impact Ireland.

Far enough you dont think they are - we will have to agree to disagree
What you describe as flexibility regarding what you believe to be the guidelines is so elastic to make them meaningless

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Jennifer as I said I believe these are the new guidelines

Reduce the money spent on NIQ
Reduce the number of NIQ
Each case to be discuss on its individual merits
Put in place a system where players moved between provinces more
No restrictions regarding position as long as it does not adversely impact Ireland.

Far enough you dont think they are - we will have to agree to disagree
What you describe as flexibility regarding what you believe to be the guidelines is so elastic to make them meaningless

Yep. Would agree with most of that. The first 4 definitely. Not sure about the "no restrictions" or the elasticity of meaninglessnes, but hey.

Then again last year you were claiming that this season we would be down to 3 NIQs with no dispensation for "project players"   

[geoff998rugby]

No I claimed that the agreement was that we would push towards 4 players in total - both NIQ/NIE combined.

We seem to be working towards that - Leinster might already be there for next year and Munster are in an usual situation of only having 1 NIE.

Its coming just not quite as fast as hoped.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

No I claimed that the agreement was that we would push towards 4 players in total - both NIQ/NIE combined.

We seem to be working towards that - Leinster might already be there for next year and Munster are in an usual situation of only having 1 NIE.

Its coming just not quite as fast as hoped.

Fair enough. But Munster already have 5. You yourself said that Ulster will get another, and Leinster are still looking for another outside back.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

All of which goes to prove that ALL rules are fairly movable feasts. Both new and old ones.

[geoff998rugby]

I think there is a simple reason for that - to make this work we need players to move around between provinces. Until that happens in a way that is workable for players we will all have shortfalls.

If this summer

a Munster Lock had moved to Leinster
an Ulster back had moved to Leinster
an Ulster back had moved to Munster
a Leinster prop had moved to Ulster
a Leinster backrower had moved to Ulster

we would be able to reduce our reliance on NIQ.
Trouble would the provinces accept it and even more would the players accept it
Thats the challange

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Well. The players would have to be up for it. After that I don't give a fock what the fans think.

Not sure we could spare a prop for Ulster but certainly a Back row. (as a fan. who I don't give a fock about. )

As long as there is no forcing players to move provinces under their current contracts that's fine by me.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Not sure we need another 2nd row either with 3 in the academy. Although if Roux goes.....

[geoff998rugby]

You cant afford a prop seriously !
One of your three TH would have meant we did not have to sign Herbst

If Douglas wasn't coming you would need a Lock

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

You cant afford a prop seriously !
One of your three TH would have meant we did not have to sign Herbst

If Douglas wasn't coming you would need a Lock

Yeah Douglas is official now though. 3 year deal.

We have 2 top line th props. Both of whom will be away with Ireland for stretches. Next up is a lad who is just leaving the academy (albeit very promising)

The only way we can get away with it is because Bent can cover th. No th in the academy next year.

On the Lh side it is the same. 2 top line who will be missing. Then a young lad we had to get from Jersey because O'Connell had his head turned by big money from Bristol.

During the 6n and Ai we have 3 senior props and 2 young Lh in the academy. Before we get a single injury.

So no. I don't think we can spare any

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

To Clarify. We are left with 1 TH prop during intl windows. 2 LH (one who can cover TH) and 2 more LH in the Academy.

[profitius]

Its not good whats happening in Ireland. I think a new loan system should be introduced. That way provinces are not losing players and other provinces are gaining players for a season. No loss to one but a big gain for another.

[Standulstermen]

Not sure i get the massive negativity around Nick Williams. Yes, he went awol but if that has been sorted its done and it should only be re-hashed if he acts out again.

I havent seen evidence of this. He has had a difficult/poor season but he didnt let us down in big games like Leicester and Sarries when i actually probably would have preferred Diack starting. He has also been injured a lot. I dont think he necessarily has to leave when Anscombe does so long as he is performing and has the right attitude.

On the subject of Leinster backrowers i looked at the B&I cup team. Dominic Ryan captaining, Van DerFlier benching and leavy injured. Surely one of those three lads could use the move North to see more gametime? (obviously Leavy would be least likely). What age is Ryan now?

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

24.

Loan idea is good. gives some control to the player and the lending team.

We could match up a bit.

Ulster tripping over centres.

Leinster tripping over back rowers.

Munster always seem to produce 2nd rows. Used to be Scrummies and Hookers too. Running a bit short now. Have they ever produced a centre in the pro era?

[Notch]

It would be good to have some aspect of a fair swap. i.e. with Payne wanting to play 13, Ulster lend Leinster Darren Cave for the season. Leinster loan us Jordi Murphy in return.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Will give you Dom Ryan and a twix.....

[Standulstermen]

See 24 is an age where i think Ryan needs to have a look at where he sees himself. He had (maybe still does have) serious potential but he is behind Jennings, Murphy and O'Brien at Leinster with Leavy and VDF coming through although im not as convinced of the latters quality

[Notch]

See this is it. It has to be a fair swap!

Stand, I don't have anything against Williams either. He can be frustrating sometimes but he's still a useful player to have in the Pro12.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Ryan is a 6.25 Only at 7 because there are so many 6s

He is a bit too tall for a 6 7. Fast though. And a massively serious tackler.

[Notch]

Ryan for Ulster- can cover 6/7. Would be perfect.

[Standulstermen]

Is he content to captain B and I Cup sides though? Correct me if im wrong Jen but he hasnt a lot of gametime this season.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

17 games 700 minutes 2 tries not counting the A team.

He is way too pretty for youse nordies though. He'd be mobbed.

Be seeing him in the flesh tomorrow night.

[Standulstermen]

so he is averaging a half in those games. Maybe he is content with that.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Some lads just love their hometown I reckon.

[Standulstermen]

meh....

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Do you live in yours?

[Standulstermen]

Outskirts. Would be away in a heartbeat if possible though.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

I live in mine and love it. Tried living in Gibboland many years ago but was never happy anywhere else.

[profitius]

24.

Loan idea is good. gives some control to the player and the lending team.

We could match up a bit.

Ulster tripping over centres.

Leinster tripping over back rowers.

Munster always seem to produce 2nd rows. Used to be Scrummies and Hookers too. Running a bit short now. Have they ever produced a centre in the pro era?

Munster have loads of hookers next season. Sherry, Casey and Niall Scannell have been injured this season. Varley is there too. I think Sherry will make the world cup squad. New into the academy is Ireland U20 Max Abbott.

Last center of note Munster produced was Barry Murphy. He must have made his debut around a decade ago! Its a joke really.

Scrummie resources are running low too. Theres 3 in the academy though so hopefully one or two or those make it.

[Golden]

Dont know if its just a matter of money but its a bit odd that Leinster lost a very promising loosie and backrower in O'Connell and Gilsenan while Ulster are looking for depth there.

Could be its just a case of wages or player preference but maybe the IRFU could have done more to facilitate a move North...?

[Standulstermen]

Maybe Ulster didnt rate him either. The guy got a couple of starts for Connacht because literally everyone else was injured. I dont think Leinster or connacht thought he was the requisite standard.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Maybe Ulster didnt rate him either. The guy got a couple of starts for Connacht because literally everyone else was injured. I dont think Leinster or connacht thought he was the requisite standard.

Gilsenan was very impressive for Connacht (although he didn't get the game time he would have wanted due to injury) according to a couple of fans that I've seen which is one of the reasons why he was given a contract at LI despite them having relatively good depth in the backrow. He has been unlucky with injuries but he is certainly rated here (he was captain of the As).

JOC certainly made the right choice provided he is 1st or 2nd choice at Bristol. He wouldn't have been guaranteed plenty of game time with Ulster and we have already seen that going abroad has been really good for Irish players.

[Standulstermen]

But if Leinster really rated him then why wasnt he retained over the likes of Dom Ryan who is older and behind 3 other opensides. I was expecting big things from Gilsenan but it never really materialised so i just put that down to being in a brilliant backrow with Conan, Coghlan/Henderson at the JRWc

[LeinsterFan4life]

But if Leinster really rated him then why wasnt he retained over the likes of Dom Ryan who is older and behind 3 other opensides. I was expecting big things from Gilsenan but it never really materialised so i just put that down to being in a brilliant backrow with Conan, Coghlan/Henderson at the JRWc

Maybe Leinster tried to retain him but he wanted to move? His career has been plighted with injury so he could never get a consistent run of form which is always going to affect him given the depth in the backrow. Hopefully he can stay injury free with LI and force his way into the team.

[LeinsterFan4life]

According to the Indo, Mannix is looking to bring James Coughlan to his new club Pau in the Pro D2.

[Sin é]

But if Leinster really rated him then why wasnt he retained over the likes of Dom Ryan who is older and behind 3 other opensides. I was expecting big things from Gilsenan but it never really materialised so i just put that down to being in a brilliant backrow with Conan, Coghlan/Henderson at the JRWc

The guy is only 21 - give him a break. He was a class act in the U20s.

The reason why he probably didn't move to Ulster is because as an Openside, he would be behind a still relatively young Henry. I also think that moving to any province other than Connacht kills yours chances of returning to your home one. It just doesn't seem to happen. Much easier to move across the water to a club who will accept fully in 2/3 years time when Jennings retires, the call of home.

[Sin é]

According to the Indo, Mannix is looking to bring James Coughlan to his new club Pau in the Pro D2.

They also had Holland (academy outhalf) going there as well, but has since resigned with Munster. I'd be really said to see Coughlan go, but I wouldn't begrudge him making a killing as he has been very loyal to Munster.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Pau would be a fair step down from Munster. Would the money be that much better?

Is Coughlan not already signed for next season?

[geoff998rugby]

Pau have a bigger budget than the 3 senior Irish provinces as do something like 18-20 French clubs.

Couglan didn't even make the list of 56 players Schmidt mention at the start of the season so no prospect of an Irish cap so he might as well cash in before retirement

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