The Official Irish Provinces Rugby Thread

[Notch]

First topic message reminder :

Fans of Ulster, Leinster, Munster and Connacht unite! A place is here to talk of your teams.

Discuss the Pro12 run-in, the provinces prospects in Europe next season, the tour to Argentina and why we're generally just the best. I mean, just how great are we? Lets talk about that.

But mainly whatever feckin' thing comes into your head!

[profitius]

I wouldn't mind seeing Coughlan leave for a payday. He deserves it if he wants and Munster now have depth there. Coughlan, Copeland, Stander, Butler, Jack O'Donoghue and even POM.

[SecretFly]

He might very well cash in but he may crash out before he collects much of the cash-in money.

It's always a balancing act. Do I do worked-to-the-bone workhorse mileage for princely pay or do I do less intense work for a longer time on less pay? Which will give me a better retirement nest egg? The jury is out..and so is the dice.

[clivemcl]

Saw a while back that the IRFU had hired an overseas scout. Is this anything to do with him I wonder?

Came across it on a google search. Haven’t enough time to check out the site or figure out who its run by etc… but its interesting.

http://www.ireland.co.za/Group-Pages/Irish-Sports/Pages/Looking-for-Irish-Qualified-Rugby-Players.aspx

[Sin é]

The contact for that company in ProRugby Ireland who now works for the John Baker agency, whose clients include Paul O'Connell, Matt Williams and a number of the Russian national team.

Of interest to Ulster fans is that Ruairi Murphy is a client.

John Baker has been around for a long time and has an excellent reputation, but I would say they see it as a way to increase their client base which is mainly in Ireland.

[ME-109]

Would be sad to see Coughlan go. Reckon he has one more good year left (maybe two as he is a fitness fanatic). Wouldnt begrudge him getting a few shekels but hope he decides to stay.

[ME-109]

Confirmed he is leaving...good luck to him..

Big loss..here's hoping Copeland doesn't turn out to be a dud..

[ME-109]

Great plan here by Munster...build a motorway it will solve all our problems....chickens coming home to roost.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/munster-rugby-in-motorway-call-as-season-ticket-sales-dwindle-271510.html

[SecretFly]

Build it and they will come.

Prophetic - cinematic even.  Should be made into a movie!

But............  what will make them come though is Munster hitting the target again on a style of rugby that wins and that wins belligerently but also engagingly from a spectacle point of view.  I suspect the Munster faithful are tiring of the 'training' games and/or games that are designed to test this theory or test that player combination.  They probably just want straight match winning fire in Munster's belly again from the off.  Foley will probably give them the attitude, then the players will need to deliver the performances.

[ME-109]

They have to start putting on some of the bigger games in Musgrave park or they wont have anything to build on. People just wont bother.

[whocares]

Great plan here by Munster...build a motorway it will solve all our problems....chickens coming home to roost.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/munster-rugby-in-motorway-call-as-season-ticket-sales-dwindle-271510.html

 
obviously always good to improve your infrastruture but if the only reason to build a motorway was an increase tickets sales of 650 k€ per year, it might be a very long return on investment ;)shame as there was a time where the EU would have paid for that type of project.

[MunsterMac]

It is a bit ridiculous that the 2nd and 3rd/4th cities in the country are not connected by motorway.

Work on the Gort bypass has started so soon you'll be able to drive from Adare to Tuam via mostly motorway but yet you can't drive from Limerick to Cork on even a dual carriageway.

And it's especially daft as all you'd have to do is build a new road from Limerick to Mitchelstown to connect up with the M8.

[SecretFly]

What do we want?  Motorways connecting every blade of grass or parts of Ireland that look like maybe a tourist would like to go there to see some grass (ie wilder than your average spaghetti junction suburbanised city states?)  We're too small to have it everyway?

A Motorway through the Ring of Kerry because people don't like them winding roads when they're trying to get back quickly to their comfortable hotels?

[whocares]

What do we want?  Motorways connecting every blade of grass or parts of Ireland that look like maybe a tourist would like to go there to see some grass (ie wilder than your average spaghetti junction suburbanised city states?)  We're too small to have it everyway?

A Motorway through the Ring of Kerry because people don't like them winding roads when they're trying to get back quickly to their comfortable hotels?

I agree ... almost 2 hours drive behind a truck between Cork and Killarney (less than 90km...) is part of the "tourist" experience

[MunsterMac]

What do we want?

I think 'we' have a pretty good handle on what 'we' want.

We want the bare minimum road infrastructure that allows us to conduct business / economic activity to the required standard - and bear in mind that our railways are a joke.

That bare minimum would be to connect all our major cities (including Belfast) and our ports / airports with motorway standard roads and possibly extend one up towards Donegal / Derry.

I haven't heard a single person suggest that we build motorways around / towards the Ring of Kerry or from Galway to Clifden and having lived in Clifden the local business community are well aware that part of the experience of Connemara is the long winding, sheep infested road from Galway.

No one wants or is suggesting that we cover every blade of grass with tarmac.

[SecretFly]

Bare minimum my ass, MunsterMac.  
One motorway leads to development off that motorway, you've heard of Apple Green for the tired road users who need a break after 10 miles of driving???  
Motorways lead to developments off motorways, leads to the need for a new motorway to service the extra traffic that the off-motorway companies need to get their goods to market...needs more motorways because local politicians say those other guys benefitted from having the motorway in their area, and having businesses locate close to them for the motorway access!  Fair is fair!  We want a motorway!

Motorways lead to motorways, and lead to politicians who call for motorways - and lorries still drive through small towns and stop off to get their 99 Ice creams with the bloody twix stuck in it - disregarding the bloody motorways that were built for them to bring jobs to the little people that the politician got elected on....

Yep...but go ahead.  It's a popular thought, a motorway..it gets people elected.

[thebandwagonsociety]

Thought by law all motorways had to head towards (or away from) Dublin (depending on your perspective).

[SecretFly]

Motorways are actually 'living' beings/organisms/brains that decide for themselves where they go based on ant dynamics that people aren't all too certain about.  It's proven.  Nobody has ever really planned a motorway, they just invent themselves. And by virtue of how many people use them, they decide themselves where they head to next.

So...maybe motorways just don't watch rugby?

[LeinsterFan4life]

The grops that Ulster and Munster got just shows how important it is now to win the league. I bet there will be no more slack performamces from Munster now!

[MunsterMac]

Motorways lead to developments off motorways,

You say that like it's a bad thing.   

Thought by law all motorways had to head towards (or away from) Dublin (depending on your perspective).

It wouldn't surprise me. Along with all internationals have to be played in Dublin, all (or the vast majority) of jobs most go to Dublin and all the youth of Ireland have to be sucked into Dublin.

[whocares]

certainly a step up from last year pool from a Munster perspective Leinster facing similar type of opponents though.

[MunsterMac]

Just in case not everyone has seen it:

European Rugby Champions Cup draw
Pool 1: Saracens, Munster, Clermont Auvergne, Sale Sharks.
Pool 2: Leinster, Castres, Harlequins, London Wasps.
Pool 3: Toulon, Leicester Tigers, Ulster, Scarlets.
Pool 4: Glasgow Warriors, Montpellier, Bath, Toulouse.
Pool 5: Northampton Saints, Racing Metro, Ospreys, Benetton Treviso.

Connacht have been drawn in Pool 2 of the second-tier European Rugby Challenge Cup and will play Exeter Chiefs, Bayonne and La Rochelle.

From a Munster perspective Munster can definitely beat Saracens at Thomond, Clermont are far from the force they where and can be beaten home and away and likewise Sale can be beaten away.

Some great days at Thomond ahead!!

[ME-109]

I wouldt worry about us at home...should fill Thomond Park three times at least...away games will be interesting to see where we can pick up points.

[SecretFly]

Motorways lead to developments off motorways,

You say that like it's a bad thing.   

A Las Vegas style casino, shopping centre, multiplex cinema and a corporate-suit hotel and private golf course WOULD be a bad thing.... on the Ring of Kerry or behind the Cliffs of Moher.... yes

You caught me   

[Standulstermen]

Just in case not everyone has seen it:

European Rugby Champions Cup draw
Pool 1: Saracens, Munster, Clermont Auvergne, Sale Sharks.
Pool 2: Leinster, Castres, Harlequins, London Wasps.
Pool 3: Toulon, Leicester Tigers, Ulster, Scarlets.
Pool 4: Glasgow Warriors, Montpellier, Bath, Toulouse.
Pool 5: Northampton Saints, Racing Metro, Ospreys, Benetton Treviso.

Connacht have been drawn in Pool 2 of the second-tier European Rugby Challenge Cup and will play Exeter Chiefs, Bayonne and La Rochelle.

From a Munster perspective Munster can definitely beat Saracens at Thomond, Clermont are far from the force they where and can be beaten home and away and likewise Sale can be beaten away.

Some great days at Thomond ahead!!

How many times have Clermont been beaten at home? I would fancy Munster to win at Sarries before they win at Clermont. Wouldn't rule it out.

[SecretFly]

On Paper Munster have a tough tough slot. Ulster too. On paper, Leinster ain't as bad as it might have been.

[SecretFly]

Pool 1 and 3 are the sexy ones for the first year of this.... em............ PRL thing whatyamightcallitthatI'veforgottenalready

[MunsterMac]

How many times have Clermont been beaten at home? I would fancy Munster to win at Sarries before they win at Clermont. Wouldn't rule it out.

They lost to Castres in the Top14 playoff which was their first home defeat in a long time but following on from Saracen's demolition of them in the HC and the fact that Munster usually do well against them I think Munster will be fancying their chances.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Quinn Roux and John Conney have joined Connacht on loan deals.

Good to see more of these type of deals being done.

[Golden]

Just thought I'd let people know that tickets for the World Club 7s competition in August are up on groupon, in case anyone's interested.

Its taking place in Thomand on the 9th and 10th of August.

[profitius]

Quinn Roux and John Conney have joined Connacht on loan deals.

Good to see more of these type of deals being done.

This is a sensible thing for all concerned. The players will get gametime which will help them and Leinster and Connacht will be boosted too. Hopefully this is the start of it.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Just thought I'd let people know that tickets for the World Club 7s competition in August are up on groupon, in case anyone's interested.

Its taking place in Thomand on the 9th and 10th of August.

I really don't understand why Leinster and Ulster aren't sending teams! Could be great to expose certain players to this.

[geoff998rugby]

Quinn Roux and John Conney have joined Connacht on loan deals.

Good to see more of these type of deals being done.

This is a sensible thing for all concerned. The players will get gametime which will help them and Leinster and Connacht will be boosted too. Hopefully this is the start of it.

I 'll believe it when I see a non Ulsterman moving north

Two squad players so far in 15 years is hardly encouraging
Cillian Willis and Ronan McCormack

Until then it is irrelevant to us

[Pete330v2]

I don't get it, we could be doing with a couple of players and we've the best training setup so is it the Belfast coffee shops or something that puts them off coming north or is it more the image the media still paints of what is a brilliant city, despite said media rubbish.

Also, as an aside, what are the dates of the emerging Irish side's games and are they being televised. I heard perhaps TG4 was doing them?

[asoreleftshoulder]

I don't get it, we could be doing with a couple of players and we've the best training setup so is it the Belfast coffee shops or something that puts them off coming north or is it more the image the media still paints of what is a brilliant city, despite said media rubbish.

Also, as an aside, what are the dates of the emerging Irish side's games and are they being televised. I heard perhaps TG4 was doing them?

I think they're being streamed on the IRB website but I don't know if any T.V. channel has them.

[Pete330v2]

Cheers ASLS

[thebandwagonsociety]

Quinn Roux and John Conney have joined Connacht on loan deals.

Good to see more of these type of deals being done.

This is a sensible thing for all concerned. The players will get gametime which will help them and Leinster and Connacht will be boosted too. Hopefully this is the start of it.

I 'll believe it when I see a non Ulsterman moving north

Two squad players so far in 15 years is hardly encouraging
Cillian Willis and Ronan McCormack

Until then it is irrelevant to us

On an extended squad/academy basis that kid Shanahan, the scrum half, went north also but that was more of an academy transfer.

[geoff998rugby]

True but even then Leinster didn't want him so he was a free agent.

I was think of full professionals

[profitius]

Quinn Roux and John Conney have joined Connacht on loan deals.

Good to see more of these type of deals being done.

This is a sensible thing for all concerned. The players will get gametime which will help them and Leinster and Connacht will be boosted too. Hopefully this is the start of it.

I 'll believe it when I see a non Ulsterman moving north

Two squad players so far in 15 years is hardly encouraging
Cillian Willis and Ronan McCormack

Until then it is irrelevant to us

On an extended squad/academy basis that kid Shanahan, the scrum half, went north also but that was more of an academy transfer.

And Alan O'Connor the academy second row from Leinster. Also young player David O'Mahony went up from Munster a few years back.

And its not just Ulster. Munster and Leinster players have been very reluctant to move to Connacht. Thats part of the reason Nucifora has come in, to make player movement more fluid.

The days of players rejecting other provinces is coming to an end. Theres just too much competition in academies and squads now and players are starting to realise they have to take what they can get. Theres talk of Peter Robb going to Connacht after being turned down by Leinster. He is a quality player and if true or not true, its a sign of things to come.

If you're a young Ian Nagle and you want a career then my advise would be to have a look whats in front of you ( in front of Nagle were POC, DOC, Ryan, Holland, MOD etc) and if theres a big traffic jam ahead, leave! Do not wait around you you'll be soon passed out.

[Notch]

Dominic Ryan... calling Dominic Ryan. You are playing British and Irish Cup rugby and have been overtaken by the likes of Jordi Murphy and Rhys Ruddock. Ulster have almost no back-up right across the back row. Do the sensible thing!

[geoff999rugby]

O'Connor has yet to get a full contract
O'Mahoney didn't even make a development contract

[profitius]

O'Connor has yet to get a full contract
O'Mahoney didn't even make a development contract  

Thats besides the point. They still went up to Ulster.

[Welshmushroom]

I'm really looking forward to next seasons pro 12. I can see an added intensity from the welsh sides in the league so I reckon there wont be any easy matches in the pro 12 next year. Still looking forward to seeing how the irish continue their dominance in the league and how they will all react to the extra pressure that will come with the league games.

On a side note I'm not surprised French sides haven't looked at Jordi Murphy because he looked outstanding at times for Leinster last season. Will be interesting to see as well how ulster adapt to the pack changes that will take place but in fairness if the props turn out to be good then it could be another strong season.

So anyone know if any irish sides are still targeting players or will there not be much movement in their teams from now until Sept?

[asoreleftshoulder]

I'm really looking forward to next seasons pro 12.  I can see an added intensity from the welsh sides in the league so I reckon there wont be any easy matches in the pro 12 next year.  Still looking forward to seeing how the irish continue their dominance in the league and how they will all react to the extra pressure that will come with the league games.  

On a side note I'm not surprised French sides haven't looked at Jordi Murphy because he looked outstanding at times for Leinster last season.  Will be interesting to see as well how ulster adapt to the pack changes that will take place but in fairness if the props turn out to be good then it could be another strong season.  

So anyone know if any irish sides are still targeting players or will there not be much movement in their teams from now until Sept?

There might be one or two more signings,Ulster and Leinster both have spots open but I doubt there will be anything high profile,squad fillers mainly I'd say.

[geoff999rugby]

O'Connor has yet to get a full contract
O'Mahoney didn't even make a development contract  

Thats besides the point. They still went up to Ulster.

No because the point I made was that full professional never come north(2 squad players aside) and that is what we need for the system to work.
Players who have yet to make the grade going to another province is completely different to established players moving.
Without that it wont work

[SecretFly]

O'Connor has yet to get a full contract
O'Mahoney didn't even make a development contract  

Thats besides the point. They still went up to Ulster.

No because the point I made was that full professional never come north(2 squad players aside) and that is what we need for the system to work.
Players who have yet to make the grade going to another province is completely different to established players moving.
Without that it wont work

But how many established Ulster players moved South?  Boss?  Bowe came back from Wales and went straight back Home to Ulster.
Established players are called 'established' for a reason - they're considered virtual nailed on players for more important games and/or competitions, they have preferential contracts to other lesser players.  So an established player at any of the Provinces is usually a centrally influencial player enough in his respective Team.  
And considering the top three Provinces are fairly competitive with each other, what is the incentive for a Munster established player or a Leinster established player to leave a relatively successful Province, with relatively hopeful aspirations for silverware to join Ulster?  And likewise with Ulster players.  The disparity between exectations/hopes/desires are not large enough between the three Provinces to have established players from any of those three top Provinces going to play for a different Province.

[geoff999rugby]

You are right it is not many but if you are talking  full time professionals
besides Boss I can think of 5 who have gone to Connacht in recent years - no players has gone the other way (other than returning Ulstermen).

The trend has been for Connacht to benefit from the relationship with Ulster player wise

There are plenty of players who would benefit game wise from moving between provinces
It is not good Ulster signing NIQ props, Leinster signing NIQ 2nd rowers or Munster signing NIQ centres
but unless players are persuade to move that is what will happen
On the flip side where a province has a surplus players will leave.

Of course the issue is someone from Dublin/Belfast/Cork/Limerick may not want to live in one of the others.
If we don't square that circle it is going to tough to retain all our best players

[The Great Aukster]

Ronan McCormack and Ed O'Donaghue went to Leinster.

[St John The Enforcer]

Ronan McCormack and Ed O'Donaghue went to Leinster.

Ronnie McCormack was a Marys boy who went to Connacht and then Ulster on his way back home to Leinster.

Ed O'Donoghue was an Ausie who played all over the shop before Ulster sold Leinster a pup off the back of a few Wolfhounds caps. (we should have got Dan Tuohy )

Had a career with the Reds (his hometown club) after going missing from Leinster.

Boss is the only decent one really.

[Don Alfonso]

Willie Faloon went to Connacht and was their 2012-2013 supporters' player of the year.

Leinster have benefitted from Cronin, Boss and McCarthy coming directly from other provinces.  Munster's first choice ten is a Leinsterman, as is their first choice fullback.

In terms of professional players directly going to, or coming in from, other provinces, Ulster are almost exclusively exporters of talent. The same is not true of other province , who have seen much, much more in the way of benefits.

[SecretFly]

Blame Humphs.  He was the hirer and firer - and chief negotiator with IRFU head honchos if need be, and considered the brilliant attraction-specialist in selling Ulster rugby to the outside sourced players who have come there.

Blame Humphs if Ulster first of all even considered wanting/headhunting players from other Provinces (you'll have to ask Humphs about that one because I wouldn't be so sure the idea was ever high on his agenda) but then failed to make the attractive offers required to coax them up there.

Blame Humphs

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