What's the latest on WRU Central Contracts?

First topic message reminder :

Now that the Lydiate issue has been settled, what's the news on the other promised Central Contracts. The vultures in the richer English clubs have already started to gather. See link below:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/scarlets-head-coach-wayne-pivac-8287585

I know its in the Fail but it quotes Wayne Pivac so should have some substance! Jake Ball and Liam Williams are two of the most promising stars in the Welsh game and whilst Priestland has his knockers, he was MoM yesterday and he is in this week's Planet Rugby team of the week.

So it's now up to Roger the Dodger to put up and sort out this central contract issue once and for all or (hopefully) ship out!!!!

He will be back up because George Ford is a significantly superior player

To be fair, I have heard London Irish as a 'done deal' a few weeks back. But that was from a rumour monkey, the sort that claim Nonu or Freaun are signing for Cardiff Blues. The same as i heard Owen was coming home more or less when the RSA was signed.

Maybe its a case of journos pouncing on rumours from online forums?

Never Never I tell yer they would not stoop so low

We have one here in Ulster who is notorious for it - quite funny giving him a bum steer and then see it in print a couple of days later

Leicester on the verge of signing:

 Kaino, Le Roux, Saili & Savea


 Then to check fissler's twitter account in a couple of hours.

Not dual contracts as I understand, although Bony was a target;
"Scarlets captain Ken Owens and Wales international team-mate Liam Williams sign new deals to remain at the Llanelli-based region."

Gatland on DCs;
“It is up to the players to accept them,” he said, before predicting: “In the next two or three weeks we will have them done and there might be another batch of three or four that might be done early in December."
So how many have been "done" to date? One isn't it, as in Lydiate?

Dai, don't forget WRUburton. So by my reckoning its only flankers who have signed up so far. And to be fair only flankers who have other players who could fill their boots internationally pretty easily too, so maybe those two flankers see their dual contracts as a bit of job security?

Dave and SS, don't forget the Lip has named the 2 Dragons youngsters that have reportedly signed as well

wayne wrote:Dave and SS, don't forget the Lip has named the 2 Dragons youngsters that have reportedly signed as well

Offered, not signed (yet)

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

wayne wrote:Dave and SS, don't forget the Lip has named the 2 Dragons youngsters that have reportedly signed as well

Offered, not signed (yet)

I stand corrected

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Dai, don't forget WRUburton.  So by my reckoning its only flankers who have signed up so far.  And to be fair only flankers who have other players who could fill their boots internationally pretty easily too, so maybe those two flankers see their dual contracts as a bit of job security?

Hadn't forgot Roger's boy and job security is a good thing isn't it? I'm none the wiser anyway. That Gats' quote I posted was from a Howler piece in the Fail back in mid November. First time i've read it. Suggests we should have 20-25 players nailed on by now. What's the hold up I wonder?

wayne wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

wayne wrote:Dave and SS, don't forget the Lip has named the 2 Dragons youngsters that have reportedly signed as well

Offered, not signed (yet)

I stand corrected

Why aren't players signing up to DCs offered to them, is the question I spose. As ever in Wales, the Devil must be in the detail and we can only guess, bicker and blame the Irish.

I missed this. Did anyone get to see it?...

ITV Wales OnAir @ITVWales_OnAir · Dec 18

IN TOUCH: Former Wales rugby captains Eddie Butler and Mike Hall tell @FranDonovanTV that the regional model has run its course. 10.40pm.

16 game limit, I believe is the reason players are not keen.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

wayne wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

wayne wrote:Dave and SS, don't forget the Lip has named the 2 Dragons youngsters that have reportedly signed as well

Offered, not signed (yet)

I stand corrected

Why aren't players signing up to DCs offered to them, is the question I spose. As ever in Wales, the Devil must be in the detail and we can only guess, bicker and blame the Irish.

Dave I think they are trying to spread the money so thinly that they can get extra players on the payroll, and as for blaming the Irish, haven't you heard about blaming whoever isn't around, they are not at the moment but I bet they will soon be.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:16 game limit, I believe is the reason players are not keen.

I spose the clubs aren't keen either then.

wayne wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

wayne wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

wayne wrote:Dave and SS, don't forget the Lip has named the 2 Dragons youngsters that have reportedly signed as well

Offered, not signed (yet)

I stand corrected

Why aren't players signing up to DCs offered to them, is the question I spose. As ever in Wales, the Devil must be in the detail and we can only guess, bicker and blame the Irish.

Dave I think they are trying to spread the money so thinly that they can get extra players on the payroll, and as for blaming the Irish, haven't you heard about blaming whoever isn't around, they are not at the moment but I bet they will soon be.

As always, I blame the Welsh.

wayne wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

wayne wrote:Dave and SS, don't forget the Lip has named the 2 Dragons youngsters that have reportedly signed as well

Offered, not signed (yet)

I stand corrected

Three Dragons he named as offered, didn't he? Taulupe as well?

Cardiff Dave wrote:I missed this. Did anyone get to see it?...

ITV Wales OnAir @ITVWales_OnAir  ·  Dec 18

IN TOUCH: Former Wales rugby captains Eddie Butler and Mike Hall tell @FranDonovanTV that the regional model has run its course. 10.40pm.

No, but I saw a bit of the Scrum V bit Butler did and he seems to want clubs for a league and regions for Europe. Seems a bit daft to me. Where do you get the continuity then? It's bad enough they have to bend over backwards for extra AI's and miss out on training for their regions etc.

Risca Rev wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:I missed this. Did anyone get to see it?...

ITV Wales OnAir @ITVWales_OnAir  ·  Dec 18

IN TOUCH: Former Wales rugby captains Eddie Butler and Mike Hall tell @FranDonovanTV that the regional model has run its course. 10.40pm.

No, but I saw a bit of the Scrum V bit Butler did and he seems to want clubs for a league and regions for Europe. Seems a bit daft to me. Where do you get the continuity then? It's bad enough they have to bend over backwards for extra AI's and miss out on training for their regions etc.

Same as me Rev, Jiffy thought he was talking through his hat (wanted to put somewhere else) as well.

Risca Rev wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:I missed this. Did anyone get to see it?...

ITV Wales OnAir @ITVWales_OnAir  ·  Dec 18

IN TOUCH: Former Wales rugby captains Eddie Butler and Mike Hall tell @FranDonovanTV that the regional model has run its course. 10.40pm.

No, but I saw a bit of the Scrum V bit Butler did and he seems to want clubs for a league and regions for Europe. Seems a bit daft to me. Where do you get the continuity then? It's bad enough they have to bend over backwards for extra AI's and miss out on training for their regions etc.

It's PRW now not RRW. The "Grrrr" word has been discarded.

wayne wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:I missed this. Did anyone get to see it?...

ITV Wales OnAir @ITVWales_OnAir  ·  Dec 18

IN TOUCH: Former Wales rugby captains Eddie Butler and Mike Hall tell @FranDonovanTV that the regional model has run its course. 10.40pm.

No, but I saw a bit of the Scrum V bit Butler did and he seems to want clubs for a league and regions for Europe. Seems a bit daft to me. Where do you get the continuity then? It's bad enough they have to bend over backwards for extra AI's and miss out on training for their regions etc.

Same as me Rev, Jiffy thought he was talking through his hat (wanted to put somewhere else) as well.

That only works in the SH for these reasons. Their clubs are geared to provincial level, province's are geared to franchises in Super Rugby, Super Rugby is geared towards international level. And it was always in that order up until the extension of Super Rugby, I think that takes a break for the RC now in the latter stages. It'd work for Wales if there was a global season; with England and France being our neighbours I can't see that happening.

Risca Rev wrote:

wayne wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

wayne wrote:Dave and SS, don't forget the Lip has named the 2 Dragons youngsters that have reportedly signed as well

Offered, not signed (yet)

I stand corrected

Three Dragons he named as offered, didn't he? Taulupe as well?

Didn't Tobe only resign last season, or the season before? Seems a bit pointless offering him a DC RIGHT NOW when there's the current contract to expire. Hope the youngsters penned out weren't Dixon and Morgan, I think it's a bit soon for them to be having just 16 games a season. Prydie would be a better option for a DC. Then a couple years down the line, Amos... Followed by Dixon and Morgan maybe.

Risca Rev wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:I missed this. Did anyone get to see it?...

ITV Wales OnAir @ITVWales_OnAir  ·  Dec 18

IN TOUCH: Former Wales rugby captains Eddie Butler and Mike Hall tell @FranDonovanTV that the regional model has run its course. 10.40pm.

No, but I saw a bit of the Scrum V bit Butler did and he seems to want clubs for a league and regions for Europe. Seems a bit daft to me. Where do you get the continuity then? It's bad enough they have to bend over backwards for extra AI's and miss out on training for their regions etc.

Didn't he say, and if they are still no good enough half them and double the strength. Why not just field Team Wales in Europe???

The Saint wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

wayne wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

wayne wrote:Dave and SS, don't forget the Lip has named the 2 Dragons youngsters that have reportedly signed as well

Offered, not signed (yet)

I stand corrected

Three Dragons he named as offered, didn't he? Taulupe as well?

Didn't Tobe only resign last season, or the season before? Seems a bit pointless offering him a DC RIGHT NOW when there's the current contract to expire. Hope the youngsters penned out weren't Dixon and Morgan, I think it's a bit soon for them to be having just 16 games a season. Prydie would be a better option for a DC. Then a couple years down the line, Amos... Followed by Dixon and Morgan maybe.

Tyler Morgan and Hallam Amos.

With Faletau I totally agree with you. But Samson is ear marked for one, supposedly and he has 3 seasons left on his first pro contract still, a dual contract would be hugely expensive, compared to his current one.

Why hasn't Tipuric signed a DC, it must be this 16 games a season nonsense thats holding these things up, he has signed a 3yr deal with the Ospreys though:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/30573300

LordDowlais wrote:Why hasn't Tipuric signed a DC, it must be this 16 games a season nonsense thats holding these things up, he has signed a 3yr deal with the Ospreys though:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/30573300

Or, no disrespect to him, he is not a starter, and not seen as young enough to be the heir apparent to WRUbutron?

LordDowlais wrote:Why hasn't Tipuric signed a DC, it must be this 16 games a season nonsense thats holding these things up, he has signed a 3yr deal with the Ospreys though:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/30573300

Could be other nonsense included in the T&Cs that we don't know about, I spose.

Morgan, Amos and Rhodri Jones now on DC's. I feel the wrong players have been selected here. Morgan is uncapped, still eligible for U20 rugby I think. Rhodri is a sub for his region, I don't see why he's even rated tbh. Amos is a promising player but Prydie should have been the one with the DC.

The Saint wrote:Morgan, Amos and Rhodri Jones now on DC's. I feel the wrong players have been selected here. Morgan is uncapped, still eligible for U20 rugby I think. Rhodri is a sub for his region, I don't see why he's even rated tbh. Amos is a promising player but Prydie should have been the one with the DC.

"Oh the games people play now" and so on....

The Saint wrote:Morgan, Amos and Rhodri Jones now on DC's. I feel the wrong players have been selected here. Morgan is uncapped, still eligible for U20 rugby I think. Rhodri is a sub for his region, I don't see why he's even rated tbh. Amos is a promising player but Prydie should have been the one with the DC.

Three youngsters and probably not on big salaries. They wont be starters for Wales (maybe not even in 22) so could be available for quite a few games in addition to the 16. Rhodri Jones was a very promising loose head but seems to struggle at tight head, maybe his new employer will move him to the Dragons where he will get more game time. Amos looks good but not sure he has the pace for wing and Morgan is also promising but very young.

Maybe the Regions see that the extra cash (60% contribution from the WRU) is best spend on fringe players and bringing back a few stars. Rather than tieing up their key squad members to just 16 games a season?

Congrats WRU throw money away on nobodies. At least if you contract a player (Rhodri) ensure they are a regional first choice.

Chip on shoulder time, Dragons supply the least platers to Team Wakes, and gain the most via Dual Contracts (at the moment).

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Congrats WRU throw money away on nobodies.  At least if you contract a player (Rhodri) ensure they are a regional first choice.

Chip on shoulder time, Dragons supply the least platers to Team Wakes, and gain the most via Dual Contracts (at the moment).

SS,

I wouldn't say they are nobodies both Amos and Jones have been involved with the set up at various times and Morgan is one of the most promising centres we have coming through.

That said there is something not right with these DCs (no surprise to me really), we were led to believe they would help keep the 'big' names in Wales but as yet other than Warburton none of the big names have signed with most deciding to stay with their Regions.

Bedford, no disrespect to Jones or Amos, but they both are unlikely to be international stars. Amos is blocked by North/Cuthbert/Halfpenny/Williams, and also has the likes of Eli Walker to compete with. And Rhodri is second choice behind Samson (who is younger) regionally and internationally, and with lack of game time he isn't going to improve, just fall behind other young players

I've not seen enough of Tyler Morgan to judge, but still is he likely to get a cap in the next two/three years (unless its a sympathy cap v Japan/Fiji/Canada etc), after all there are Foxy/Roberts who are unlikely to be displaced, Sc Williams/Beck/Allen all sitting awaiting their chances too.

I know these three will be cheap, and a good news story for the union, but really a waste of money. I mean what were the odds of any English/French club wanting any of these players?

bedfordwelsh wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Congrats WRU throw money away on nobodies.  At least if you contract a player (Rhodri) ensure they are a regional first choice.

Chip on shoulder time, Dragons supply the least platers to Team Wakes, and gain the most via Dual Contracts (at the moment).

SS,

I wouldn't say they are nobodies both Amos and Jones have been involved with the set up at various times and Morgan is one of the most promising centres we have coming through.

That said there is something not right with these DCs (no surprise to me really), we were led to believe they would help keep the 'big' names in Wales but as yet other than Warburton none of the big names have signed with most deciding to stay with their Regions.

Dan Lydiate is now playing in Wales because of a dual contract. So that means half of the current contracts have kept big budget Welsh players at the regions.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Bedford, no disrespect to Jones or Amos, but they both are unlikely to be international stars.  Amos is blocked by North/Cuthbert/Halfpenny/Williams, and also has the likes of Eli Walker to compete with.  And Rhodri is second choice behind Samson (who is younger) regionally and internationally, and with lack of game time he isn't going to improve, just fall behind other young players

I've not seen enough of Tyler Morgan to judge, but still is he likely to get a cap in the next two/three years (unless its a sympathy cap v Japan/Fiji/Canada etc), after all there are Foxy/Roberts who are unlikely to be displaced, Sc Williams/Beck/Allen all sitting awaiting their chances too.

I know these three will be cheap, and a good news story for the union, but really a waste of money.  I mean what were the odds of any English/French club wanting any of these players?

The chances of these players leaving Wales is high. And players like the lads you have named being given contracts to keep them at the regions is probably more important to the regions than contracting a regular first pick for the welsh team.

The regions need to compete with the strength and depth afforded to the other big european teams by budgets three or four times the size of ours.

Maes,

Lydiate was brought back to Wales on a DC not kept in Wales which was what they were meant to do.

SS,

I think Amos and Morgan will break through and I just wish Gatland would use Jones properly though after watching Evans and Lee yesterday then I agree he might not get that far unless used as utility because can cover both sides of scrum.

Like said though still something fishy going on again with the DCs none of the big home based players are signing and have signed with Regions or linked with moves awy.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maes,

Lydiate was brought back to Wales on a DC not kept in Wales which was what they were meant to do.

He has been kept in Wales Beds, he is not playing abroad, therefor this is working.


Re Morgan and Amos I definitely agree that they will get caps. I think Amos will shade Walker in the next two seasons and everyone is complaining about North, Cuthbert and Halfpennys form on a daily basis so he will get chances.

We end up with so many injuries at centre we need a big pool of players and Morgan looks superb.

Ok but what I am gettin at is fact he was brought back first, if that's the line they want to go down fine but it was said that these DCs would stop anymore going abroad.

LordDowlais wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:It is looking more than likely that Preistland is off then:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/bath-rugby-leading-london-irish-8308621

There now might be a little bit more to the Owen Williams rumours.

That's quite amusing. A Walesonline article entirely based on a Bath Chronical article, which in turn is entirely based on a South Wales Evening Post article. Which itself just says "Bath are believed to be winning the battle to secure the services of the man who helped navigate Wales to a World Cup semi-final in 2011". Doesn't say who their source is (not even 'club insider').

Basically a non-story at the moment.

And I doubt he would be on that much at Bath. They still have a salary cap and not even Bruce is stupid enough to waste a marque slot on a backup 10.

There is no smoke without fire, and anyway why do you all reckon he will be a backup ?

Bath are being investigated, along with Saracens, for cheating the salary cap rules.

Talk of Roberts joining the Blues in the summer, and talk of Owen Williams (unlikely as it is) returning to PYS too, it looks like these three signings were done on the cheap as "keeping lads at home" to appease some, whikst the big cash is getting spent on the "bringing the boys home" which will cost so much more.

Lads there is a lot of supposition here and no fact.

Judge the situation after the RWC a year down the line.

At the moment we have two of our best flankers secured in Wales and some promising young players too.

Maes,

I think the WC will be to late, we need to get it sorted before then, if as most hope we have a good WC then players are going to be in more demand and if they are not on a DC or contracts sorted then they will go.

Lydiate has not been kept in Wales. His last club was Racing and then he was unattached. He was always going to sign for the Ospreys, so it has not served its purpose.

maestegmafia wrote:Lads there is a lot of supposition here and no fact.

Judge the situation after the RWC a year down the line.

At the moment we have two of our best flankers secured in Wales and some promising young players too.

Yet you're the one replying to the supposition with more supposition. I think what SS says is more believable.

I seem to remember that the WRU targeted a group of 6 players originally; Warbs and 5 other first choicers.

The Saint wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Lads there is a lot of supposition here and no fact.

Judge the situation after the RWC a year down the line.

At the moment we have two of our best flankers secured in Wales and some promising young players too.

Yet you're the one replying to the supposition with more supposition. I think what SS says is more believable.

No I am not. I am asking the lads to judge something once you have had time for reflection.

Saint you have to start re-reading before you press post. Else you will continue make these silly false accusations that annoy the posters you accuse.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maes,

I think the WC will be to late, we need to get it sorted before then, if as most hope we have a good WC then players are going to be in more demand and if they are not on a DC or contracts sorted then they will go.

Bedford they are sorting it right now, as we all know.

You can judge whether what they have done and will do when it's done. But rash statements without foundations now mean little.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maes,

I think the WC will be to late, we need to get it sorted before then, if as most hope we have a good WC then players are going to be in more demand and if they are not on a DC or contracts sorted then they will go.

Bedford they are sorting it right now, as we all know.

You can judge whether what they have done and will do when it's done. But rash statements without foundations now mean little.

Are they though maes, of the 5 signed 3 are not first teamers or real big stars yet one was already signed and Lydiate seemed a bit in no mans land so had little choice IMO

maestegmafia wrote:

The Saint wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Lads there is a lot of supposition here and no fact.

Judge the situation after the RWC a year down the line.

At the moment we have two of our best flankers secured in Wales and some promising young players too.

Yet you're the one replying to the supposition with more supposition. I think what SS says is more believable.

No I am not. I am asking the lads to judge something once you have had time for reflection.

Saint you have to start re-reading before you press post. Else you will continue make these silly false accusations that annoy the posters you accuse.

But you can only reflect once it has happened though, so what you're saying is also supposition unless I'm missing something? All I said was is that I think what SS is saying is more the likelihood of what is actually happening/is going to happen. Don't take yourself too seriously, unless you want to be known as the next Sean Holley on here .