ICC Cricket World Cup - Part 3

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 2:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

Table

Australia8141.00
India7110.85
New Zealand8110.57
England8101.00
Pakistan89-0.80
Sri Lanka88-0.93
Bangladesh77-0.13
South Africa85-0.08
West Indies83-0.36
Afghanistan80-1.42
Remaining Pool Fixtures

Tue, Jul 2 
10:30 Bangladesh vs India (Edgbaston)

Wed, Jul 3 
10:30 England vs New Zealand (Riverside Ground)

Thu, Jul 4 
10:30 Afghanistan vs West Indies (Headingley)

Fri, Jul 5 
10:30 Bangladesh vs Pakistan (Lord’s)

Sat, Jul 6 
10:30 India vs Sri Lanka (Headingley)
13:30 Australia vs South Africa (Old Trafford)




Knock Out Fixtures


To Follow


Last edited by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 9:32 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 8:52 am

Kohli whinging away, excellent to see. Nothing much you can do about a short boundary, according to him - guess not, when his own batting line-up could only manage one paltry six in fifty overs.

The pressure was getting to him during the tight Afghanistan game as well. Always remember him 'mic dropping' and 'shushing' Joe Root last summer...before losing the test series 4-1. laughing

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Post by VTR on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 9:18 am

ICC also confirming position of the pitch is decided months in advance. Kohli is making about as much sense as Bairstow was last week. Surely if he'd seen that before the match, and is saying you can't do anything as a spinner against it, then change the team accordingly?

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 9:32 am

Waqar spreading conspiracy rumours about India deliberately losing, while Kohli whinges about the conditions.  picard

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Post by VTR on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 9:44 am

Any accusation of India losing deliberately is absolutely pathetic. You'd think the premier match fixing nation in world cricket would know that didn't look like a fixed match!

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Post by James100 on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 10:22 am

Sri Lanka have recalled Thirimanne again picard

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Post by robbo277 on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 10:27 am

robbo277 wrote:Current qualification equation (Sri Lanka):

Sri Lanka need a very specific set of results. They need to beat West Indies on Monday, they need India to beat Bangladesh, they need New Zealand to beat England, they need Bangladesh to beat Pakistan and they then need to beat India themselves.

And then they need a huge net run rate swing. England are on 1 which multiplies out to 8. So to get them to 0, New Zealand would have to score 450 and bowl England out for 50. Or they'd need England to hit 300 and NZ to knock those off in 21 overs.

Sri Lanka are on -1.2 with two washouts, so that multiplies out to -6 with two to play. So they need to thrash West Indies tomorrow to give themselves even the most outside of shots, but they're pretty much out due to results this week.

As a correction to the above, basically disregard Sri Lanka.

Sri Lanka are stuffed because they have fewer wins - which is a factor BEFORE net run rate. Which seems harsh as they've been robbed two games on No Results. If they'd won 1 of those and lost the other they could take it to NRR - and Andy Zaltzman on twitter points out that 4 wins from 7 would be a better win rate than 5 from 9 in any event.

Those however are the rules so Sri Lanka are eliminated with yesterday's result.

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Post by robbo277 on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 10:34 am

So the tournament's 39th game is the first dead rubber. Not bad for an awful format!

You could make arguments for Australia vs New Zealand on the weekend taking this accolade (NZ had basically done enough and just had to protect NRR), but officially this is the first one.

The next two games will also be live ones (Bangladesh vs India and England vs New Zealand), although a narrow England win in that second game could effectively seal the top 4 to everything except the most extreme NRR scenario.

All in all, there will have been 4 dead rubbers out of 45 (today, Thursday and most likely the two on Saturday). Good of the hosts to drop a couple of games to ensure the interest remained throughout really.

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Post by VTR on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 10:56 am

I actually had a ticket for this one but couldn't make it at short notice. So I pinned the ticket to a nearby fence last night. When I checked this morning the pin was gone!

Joking aside, it isn't bad that we are about 5 weeks in before the first genuinely rubbish /pointless fixture

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 11:06 am

VTR wrote:I actually had a ticket for this one but couldn't make it at short notice. So I pinned the ticket to a nearby fence last night. When I checked this morning the pin was gone!

Joking aside, it isn't bad that we are about 5 weeks in before the first genuinely rubbish /pointless fixture

And it's not fully genuinely rubbish - this is the best anthem matchup of the whole event
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Post by VTR on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 11:08 am

Ha, start delayed by anthems. Next inspection 11:30

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Post by alfie on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 11:31 am

Bizarre conspiracy theories...ridiculous suggestions that the venue was tricked up to suit the home team (ICC presumably putting in this "fix" to suit local interests ) ... Surprised no one has yet alleged the umpires were instructed to deliberately miss Roy's leg side tickle...

Was a decent match. Both teams bowled very well early on ; enough in the pitch to make the openers' task difficult. Older ball less so : so both teams accelerated , before hitting speed bumps when new batsmen found it not so easy to walk in and hit from the off. (Buttler and Pandya were the only players to successfully attack from the start . They are good at that. But both perished trying to sustain the barrage) India could have kept swinging : but Dhoni knew the game was up and preferred to bat the overs rather than go down in a heroic but useless charge-of-the-light-brigade...you can question the decision - the spectators would have probably liked a hectic last four overs - but it made no difference to the result .
Suggestions that India didn't want to win are daft. Nobody messes with their chances of qualifying with a couple of games to go and what possible advantage would they gain anyway ? Sure they don't like losing to Pakistan ...but after the way they demolished them last time I imagine they'd be happy to have them as a semifinal opponent .
Plus it's really insulting to India . Men like Kohli (like him or not he has the soul of a warrior ) don't give opponents anything.

Last few games will be interesting . If Sri Lanka are "dead" (I'll take Robbo's word) then it is still possible for India to fail so they're not messing about ; Bangladesh and Pakistan are dueling for the possible fourth place ...and England of course still need to follow up yesterday's life saver. Not many pointless games at all , contrary to fears of a week or two ago.
In fact I'm convinced this is the best format , save for two snags :

1/. Takes rather a long time. And 2/ Because of that it is pretty well impossible to expand the field beyond the current ten teams.

So we will probably go back to some "3 groups of five with super sixes " or something equally artificial next time . Never mind . Either the best team will win or an underdog will have a magic finish and steal the trophy. Either way it will be great sport . Unless it rains and finishes in a bowl off at stumps or something Smile

Weekend was exciting and exhausting. Not sitting up tonight so hope it is a fun match for those in the right time zones...

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Post by Pal Joey on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 11:51 am

There will also be 10 teams for the 2023 World Cup in India, Alfie.

The route for qualification will be this 2020–22 ICC Cricket World Cup Super League thing. Still not perfect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Cricket_World_Cup

Can just see matches being washed out in certain places like Ireland in June.. I hope they have a contingency plan in place.
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Post by Duty281 on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 12:04 pm

ICC Cricket World Cup - Part 3 - Page 18 Qualification_Pathway_for_2023_ICC_Cricket_World_Cup

A super-easy flow chart to understand the super-easy qualification process for the 2023 Cricket World Cup! Held in India? Well, England won't be winning that one!

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Post by Pal Joey on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 12:10 pm

Duty281 wrote:ICC Cricket World Cup - Part 3 - Page 18 Qualification_Pathway_for_2023_ICC_Cricket_World_Cup

A super-easy flow chart to understand the super-easy qualification process for the 2023 Cricket World Cup! Held in India? Well, England won't be winning that one!

ha ha. That chart! It's a clear as mud. Well to me anyway.
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Post by VTR on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 12:25 pm

So the top 8 will go through, as it's inconceivable that India won't be in that. Then gives the traditional big teams that fall outside of that e.g. Could be Windies or Sri Lanka, another chance to not mess it up vs what should be cannon fodder. The chances of a Scotland type team qualifying are virtually zero

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 12:39 pm

JDizzle wrote:
KP_fan wrote:-as Kohli alluded to today...that it was a strange coincidence that one boundary came in to be so short that it was 55 meters.
( an it seems Eng were aware of and came prepared for maximizing this boundary)

-as I noted earlier by "coincidence" Eng's games vs Afg and BD were  in small grounds, cement strips that nullified their spinners.

.

You mean they just used their eyes? The boundary wasn’t hidden, India could have just seen the boundary was 59m!

.

The shorter boundary was a bother for India. On Saturday, as soon India arrived at the ground, the coaching staff comprising Ravi Shastri, Sanjay Bangar and Bharat Arun were seen having word with the head groundsman. As the host of the tournament, the guidelines for pitch and ground conditions are set by the ICC. The England batsman, particularly Jonny Bairstow, who hit an explosive 111, took full advantage of the short boundary. Five out of the six sixes Bairstow hit went over the shorter boundary. Four of those hits were against Chahal and one against Kuldeep. Ben Stokes, too, took advantage by hitting an audacious reverse-swept six against Chahal,
...from CI

This boundary was short but still about 70 meters.....and only on Sat the Indians found out that it had been brought in to be at 59m Rolling Eyes
to barely comply with the rules.


and from how Bairstow & Stokes got 9 sixes off spinners in that 50 m boundary tells you that they knew earlier and had chance to plan and practice it.
That's not an act that you would use the world clever...but rather cunning......still not illegal....but for all to see that Eng does not trust it's ability against top sides to have a normal pitch and normal ground.

And NZ, and other sides( should Eng go further) will be well prepared to be more observant for such Machiavellian tricks where Eng games are involved

PS* If I was Williamsom I would ensure in the next game that the coin to be tossed doesn't have Heads on both sides ghost

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 12:50 pm

Chart is actually pretty eassy for me to follow, and makes a lot of sense. The only question is how the "leagues" are run, are they just amalgamations of bilateral series played ove the coming years or will there be set fixtures to be undertaken?
Also the time frames look quite tight on this, the initial leagues will have to be done in plenty to time to allow for the qualfication tournament to be played and prepaerations for those who do qaualy to be undertaken.
Either way it adds some more direct interest and meaning to games played outside the worldc up CT and means teams outside the top 10 are getting access to afir chances to qualify and meaningful games in toruabnment play.

Theres no mention of how the 10 team tournament should work but I absoluitely believe this world cup has shown this is the optimum number of teams and that the long winded format works better than previous multi group stage ones. The best teams will qualify and the impact of the freak weather has been minimised.



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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 12:55 pm

VTR wrote:So the top 8 will go through, as it's inconceivable that India won't be in that. Then gives the traditional big teams that fall outside of that e.g. Could be Windies or Sri Lanka, another chance to not mess it up vs what should be cannon fodder. The chances of a Scotland type team qualifying are virtually zero

Well its the same chance that Afghanistan had to qualify for this one and prove they arent good enough.
Im not sure why you'd want a format that enables teams that arent the best teams to qualify.

This is back to the moaning from Ireland fans about the format, Ireland are rubbish. Theyve had a number of world cups and test status, theyve gone backwards.
The Netherlands and Kenya even more so, again despite having qualified for previous world cup(s?), the evidence is quite clear that inclussion alone does not expand the game or create better teams. Nor are audiences interested in watching horrible mismatches, even if there is an occasional shock.

If the chances of UAE or similar getting in a low its because they are not good enough to earn a spot.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 1:01 pm

KP_fan wrote:
JDizzle wrote:
KP_fan wrote:-as Kohli alluded to today...that it was a strange coincidence that one boundary came in to be so short that it was 55 meters.
( an it seems Eng were aware of and came prepared for maximizing this boundary)

-as I noted earlier by "coincidence" Eng's games vs Afg and BD were  in small grounds, cement strips that nullified their spinners.

.

You mean they just used their eyes? The boundary wasn’t hidden, India could have just seen the boundary was 59m!

.

The shorter boundary was a bother for India. On Saturday, as soon India arrived at the ground, the coaching staff comprising Ravi Shastri, Sanjay Bangar and Bharat Arun were seen having word with the head groundsman. As the host of the tournament, the guidelines for pitch and ground conditions are set by the ICC. The England batsman, particularly Jonny Bairstow, who hit an explosive 111, took full advantage of the short boundary. Five out of the six sixes Bairstow hit went over the shorter boundary. Four of those hits were against Chahal and one against Kuldeep. Ben Stokes, too, took advantage by hitting an audacious reverse-swept six against Chahal,
...from CI

This boundary was short but still about 70 meters.....and only on Sat the Indians found out that it had been brought in to be at 59m  Rolling Eyes
to barely comply with the rules.


and from how Bairstow & Stokes got 9 sixes off spinners in that 50 m boundary tells you that they knew earlier and had chance to plan and practice it.
That's not an act that you would use the world clever...but rather cunning......still not illegal....but for all to see that Eng does not trust it's ability against top sides to have a normal pitch and normal ground.

And NZ, and other sides( should Eng go further)  will be well prepared to be more observant for such Machiavellian tricks where Eng games are involved

PS* If I was Williamsom I would ensure in the next game that the coin to be tossed doesn't have Heads on both sides ghost



Really? You should be emabressed to post this stuff.

As per the comments that India did well to make 300 followed by going on about what a road the pitch was.

If India were seeing their leggies getting smacked over the short boundary they shouldve bowled them both form the other end. If England are capable of hitting them both ways then thats having done their preparations well, and India not. Dont forget they quickly learnt how to nullify and smack Kuldeep to all parts last summer too, hes not invincible.

If he cant bowl when theres not assistance from the pitch is that him being weak?

Bairstow gets called pathetic for compalining about the media, Kholi of course is right in everything he complains about and all his mistakes. Well except for when the Indian press falls out with him and even refuses to go to a press conference during this world cup.

Why didnt England fix the pitch against Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Aus?


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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 1:09 pm

ICC Cricket World Cup - Part 3 - Page 18 1adaa810

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 1:15 pm

Gooseberry wrote:  

PS* If I was Williamsom I would ensure in the next game that the coin to be tossed doesn't have Heads on both sides ghost




If India were seeing their leggies getting smacked over the short boundary they shouldve bowled them both form the other end. If England are capable of hitting them both ways then thats having done their preparations well, and India not. Dont forget they quickly learnt how to nullify and smack Kuldeep to all parts last summer too, hes not invincible.

If he cant bowl when theres not assistance from the pitch is that him being weak?

Bairstow gets called pathetic for compalining about the media, Kholi of course is right in everything he complains about and all his mistakes. Well except for when the Indian press falls out with him and even refuses to go to a press conference during this world cup.

Why didnt England fix the pitch against Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Aus?


Ind has been  duly criticized...for their weaknesses to handle / overcome the last minute guile thrown in front of them.....even though it came in the form of a local-staff and home board facilitation for the home team.

At the same time it is being pointed out that the home board felt the need to give a 59 meter boundary to the Eng team that Eng were probably aware of several days before the game......and the visiting side found out only half a day left.

Why didnt England fix the pitch( and boundary) against Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Aus?

because after 3 defeats  their bubbles of perception about their own abilities burst
and realization dawned upon them facing elimination they ....that  without a cement strip and short boundary, they ain't gonna make it Shocked
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Post by Duty281 on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 1:24 pm

Usual nonsense from KP_fan, which undermines anything sensible he does post from time to time.

Meanwhile Sri Lanka are racking up a big score, they look set to clear 300 quite comfortably. How on earth did Pakistan lose to this awful Windies side?!

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Post by JDizzle on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 1:36 pm

KP_fan wrote:
JDizzle wrote:
KP_fan wrote:-as Kohli alluded to today...that it was a strange coincidence that one boundary came in to be so short that it was 55 meters.
( an it seems Eng were aware of and came prepared for maximizing this boundary)

-as I noted earlier by "coincidence" Eng's games vs Afg and BD were  in small grounds, cement strips that nullified their spinners.

.

You mean they just used their eyes? The boundary wasn’t hidden, India could have just seen the boundary was 59m!

.

The shorter boundary was a bother for India. On Saturday, as soon India arrived at the ground, the coaching staff comprising Ravi Shastri, Sanjay Bangar and Bharat Arun were seen having word with the head groundsman. As the host of the tournament, the guidelines for pitch and ground conditions are set by the ICC. The England batsman, particularly Jonny Bairstow, who hit an explosive 111, took full advantage of the short boundary. Five out of the six sixes Bairstow hit went over the shorter boundary. Four of those hits were against Chahal and one against Kuldeep. Ben Stokes, too, took advantage by hitting an audacious reverse-swept six against Chahal,
...from CI

This boundary was short but still about 70 meters.....and only on Sat the Indians found out that it had been brought in to be at 59m  Rolling Eyes
to barely comply with the rules.


and from how Bairstow & Stokes got 9 sixes off spinners in that 50 m boundary tells you that they knew earlier and had chance to plan and practice it.
That's not an act that you would use the world clever...but rather cunning......still not illegal....but for all to see that Eng does not trust it's ability against top sides to have a normal pitch and normal ground.

And NZ, and other sides( should Eng go further)  will be well prepared to be more observant for such Machiavellian tricks where Eng games are involved

PS* If I was Williamsom I would ensure in the next game that the coin to be tossed doesn't have Heads on both sides ghost


Saturday... so the day before the game! If your coach and captain can’t think on their feet and plan ahead with that prior knowledge then the questions need to be asked of them tbh. England have been criticised, and fairly so, this tournament for not adapting to conditions. That cuts both ways and applied to all teams.

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 1:42 pm

Duty281 wrote:Usual nonsense from KP_fan, which undermines anything sensible he does post from time to time.

 


that the boundary was sneaked in to be 59 meters is a fact
That Shastri & Bangar found out on Sat late morning is also a fact

That it was at the start of the game being shown by ICC broadcaster and explained by Hussain as a 69m boundary( presumably still in their database from previous games)....only for him 15 minutes later in amazement explain that it was 59m Shocked

Here are the images from official Edgbaston ground website showing the boundary sizes.



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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 1:43 pm

Duty281 wrote:Usual nonsense from KP_fan, which undermines anything sensible he does post from time to time.

When I was made a Rugby Moderator I removed everyone form my foes list, as well it is hard to moderate posts you cannot read. Needless to say some people have now been placed right back on that list and I only ever see what inane things they have to say when their posts are quoted by others.

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 1:43 pm

JDizzle wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
JDizzle wrote:
KP_fan wrote:-as Kohli alluded to today...that it was a strange coincidence that one boundary came in to be so short that it was 55 meters.
( an it seems Eng were aware of and came prepared for maximizing this boundary)

-as I noted earlier by "coincidence" Eng's games vs Afg and BD were  in small grounds, cement strips that nullified their spinners.

.

You mean they just used their eyes? The boundary wasn’t hidden, India could have just seen the boundary was 59m!

.

The shorter boundary was a bother for India. On Saturday, as soon India arrived at the ground, the coaching staff comprising Ravi Shastri, Sanjay Bangar and Bharat Arun were seen having word with the head groundsman. As the host of the tournament, the guidelines for pitch and ground conditions are set by the ICC. The England batsman, particularly Jonny Bairstow, who hit an explosive 111, took full advantage of the short boundary. Five out of the six sixes Bairstow hit went over the shorter boundary. Four of those hits were against Chahal and one against Kuldeep. Ben Stokes, too, took advantage by hitting an audacious reverse-swept six against Chahal,
...from CI

This boundary was short but still about 70 meters.....and only on Sat the Indians found out that it had been brought in to be at 59m  Rolling Eyes
to barely comply with the rules.


and from how Bairstow & Stokes got 9 sixes off spinners in that 50 m boundary tells you that they knew earlier and had chance to plan and practice it.
That's not an act that you would use the world clever...but rather cunning......still not illegal....but for all to see that Eng does not trust it's ability against top sides to have a normal pitch and normal ground.

And NZ, and other sides( should Eng go further)  will be well prepared to be more observant for such Machiavellian tricks where Eng games are involved

PS* If I was Williamsom I would ensure in the next game that the coin to be tossed doesn't have Heads on both sides ghost


Saturday... so the day before the game! If your coach and captain can’t think on their feet and plan ahead with that prior knowledge then the questions need to be asked of them tbh. England have been criticised, and fairly so, this tournament for not adapting to conditions. That cuts both ways and applied to all teams.



Ind has been duly criticized...for their weaknesses to handle / overcome the last minute guile thrown in front of them.....even though it came in the form of a local-staff and home board facilitation for the home team.

At the same time it is being pointed out that the home board felt the need to give a 59 meter boundary to the Eng team that Eng were probably aware of several days before the game......and the visiting side found out only half a day left.
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 1:46 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Usual nonsense from KP_fan, which undermines anything sensible he does post from time to time.

When I was made a Rugby Moderator I removed everyone form my foes list, as well it is hard to moderate posts you cannot read. Needless to say some people have now been placed right back on that list and I only ever see what inane things they have to say when their posts are quoted by others.

clap clap clap
Brilliant cricket post...full of cricket content and logic
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Post by JuliusHMarx on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 1:54 pm

I think what KP is saying is that England played much better than India in the playing conditions and that India are a bunch of whingers.

What I don't understand is why the boundary was made longer after the England innings so that the Indians couldn't hit as many sixes Wink

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 1:56 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:I think what KP is saying is that England played much better than India in the playing conditions and that India are a bunch of whingers.

What I don't understand is why the boundary was made longer after the England innings so that the Indians couldn't hit as many sixes Wink

I gather it was something to do with cement

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Post by VTR on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 2:10 pm

Even finding out the day before, surely plenty of time to draft in another pace bowler if worried the spinners would be smashed out of the park. Something about adapting to conditions?

Going back a bit, and more relevant to the real world of actual sport, my point on the qualifying format is that it gives the illusion of a chance for lesser teams to qualify but not actual realistic chance. I'm not particularly for or against that, though Afghanistan have been entertaining at times in this tournament

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Post by No name Bertie on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 2:15 pm

In my view one has to guard against personal bias, one sidedness, production of echo chambers.    The Indian side made up of experienced talented cricketers have raised issued.  KP_fan has helped articulate those issues in this sub-forum.  I don't see the problem of raising these issues rather than the stock (knee jerk?) condemnation response.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 2:19 pm

Because it’s bullshite, Bertrand.

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Post by VTR on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 2:22 pm

I don't mind India complaining about it in some ways. It's classic shove a microphone in front of someone still smarting from a defeat, and get an emotional response and headline. Kohli is an absolute winner so I do get it. The injustice, perceived or real, will probably produce a positive reaction. Look at Bairstow, he was like a man possessed yesterday

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Post by Pal Joey on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 2:24 pm

Yes, I'd tend to agree with that, Bertie. Play the rope; not the man.

As an aside. I've got a mate going up to Manchester in the coming days and he's asked if anyone on here can recommend a good hardware store.

I'd assume Kingfisher would carry a wide variety of products (he's doing some floor sanding at his Aunt's place) but I've heard Homebase covers your average handyman's DIY needs pretty well too. Can anyone help? Ta in advance.
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 2:26 pm

Won’t get a good sgninnuB up there, Jeep.

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Post by Pal Joey on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 2:30 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Won’t get a good sgninnuB up there, Jeep.

You're a quick learner, Flipster. Laugh
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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 2:35 pm

Since when did an Australian need advice on sandpaper?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 2:39 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Since when did an Australian need advice on sandpaper?

drumroll
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Post by Pal Joey on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 2:40 pm

Just trying to get some minds off the 'conspiracy theories' in the innings break, Goose.

West Indies have a fairly large mountain to climb... can't see them getting near that 338 from the Lankans.
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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 2:49 pm

Pal Joey wrote:Just trying to get some minds off the 'conspiracy theories' in the innings break, Goose.

West Indies have a fairly large mountain to climb... can't see them getting near that 338 from the Lankans.

Just get themselves some scissors and a bit more string from Homebase, move in the boundary a few yards in, and get Stokes to wear Hetmeyers kit.

Both teams hugely inconsistent in the is world cup, but Sri Lanka do look like they will be able to hold their heads higher by the end. West Indies have lived up the cliche rather than their potential. Russell gets a pass for sheer guts in bowling through the pain, but Gayle needs to carry his bat and win this singlehandedly to come out with any credit. He still has the ability as we have seen from some performances in recent months but has far too often tamely surrendered or played in outright weird ways. Cant beleive he was talking about not retiring, why would they want to keep him on? I know the other openers have ben worse in batting returns but he cant run or field and his lack of professionalism does not set a good example for others to put the effort in. Its impossible to have any discpline in the camp on or off the field carrying someoen like him. I do beleive it was the correct deciusion to give him the chance and he earnt the spot ion the tour, but as soon as things went against them he was leading the surrender and charge to the bar. Long term they have to move on.

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Post by robbo277 on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 2:50 pm

Duty281 wrote:ICC Cricket World Cup - Part 3 - Page 18 Qualification_Pathway_for_2023_ICC_Cricket_World_Cup

A super-easy flow chart to understand the super-easy qualification process for the 2023 Cricket World Cup! Held in India? Well, England won't be winning that one!

So as an example:

Super League:

Everyone plays 8 bilateral series of 3 games. So of the 12 other teams, you'll play 4 at home, 4 away and not play 4. England have Australia, Ireland, Pakistan, Sri Lanka (all at home) and Bangladesh, India, Netherlands and South Africa (all away). I assume for longer series only the first 3 matches will count and any other series played won't count at all. All England fixtures will be played in 2020 or 2021, but there are some other series in 2022.

8 qualifiers: India, England, Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and South Africa
5 non-qualifiers: West Indies, Afghanistan, Zimbabwe, Ireland and Netherlands

League 2:

I can't work out the exact structure for this but fixtures have been released. It looks like they are setting up a number of tri-series, so each fixture has 3 teams assigned. I don't know if the series winner will get points or if you'll get points on a per match basis. I assume the latter, and there will just be 3 games in each venue. Scotland host Oman and Papua New Guinea in September of this year and are drawn in 9 different tri-series between then and January 2022 (inclusive).

Top 3: Nepal, Scotland, UAE
Bottom 4: Namibia, Oman, Papua New Guinea, USA

There is also a Challenge League that will provide 2 countries to the play-off. God knows who is left that plays and isn't already included. I also have no idea what the format will be.

Play-off:

Again, no idea of the format. But 6 teams will be cut down to 2. A couple of tri-series?

Bottom 4 of League 2 (Namibia, Oman, Papua New Guinea, USA) and top 2 of Challenge League. Top 2 go through, so Namibia and Oman on alphabet.

World Cup Qualifier:
Super League Bottom 5 (West Indies, Afghanistan, Zimbabwe, Ireland and Netherlands), League 2 Top 3 (Nepal, Scotland, UAE) and Play-off top 2 (Namibia and Oman).

The format for the World Cup Qualifier isn't clear, but there will be 1 host country, so I assume it will be like a mini-World Cup played over a short period of time. Maybe two pools of 5, everyone plays everyone once and the winner of each pool progresses? So for a team like Ireland to progress, for instance, will depend on not messing up Nepal, UAE and Oman and then turning over the West Indies, or similar. Unless they can take a number of victories in the Super League.

It looks like a lot of cricket to basically get the same 10 teams that we would have anyway, but it does at least bring meaningful cricket to Tier 2, even if their chances of getting into the World Cup are remote. It does provide a pathway at least and give teams something to strive for.

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Post by Galted on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 3:00 pm

Pal Joey wrote:Yes, I'd tend to agree with that, Bertie. Play the rope; not the man.

As an aside. I've got a mate going up to Manchester in the coming days and he's asked if anyone on here can recommend a good hardware store.

I'd assume Kingfisher would carry a wide variety of products (he's doing some floor sanding at his Aunt's place) but I've heard Homebase covers your average handyman's DIY needs pretty well too. Can anyone help? Ta in advance.

Laugh clap
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Post by Duty281 on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 3:01 pm

Great post again, Robbo. thumbsup

Interesting to see England have a three match ODI series in The Netherlands. That'll bring over a lot of (hopefully well behaved!) England supporters. 

Agree that it's likely we'll get all the usual suspects through for 2023, but I think there's a very real possibility of the West Indies missing out, which would be a new low and carry massive ramifications for global cricket. They only just scraped through this time and if there's a famine of talented young players coming through, seeing Zimbabwe/Netherlands/Ireland/Scotland overhaul them wouldn't be a real surprise.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 3:06 pm

Duty281 wrote:Great post again, Robbo. thumbsup

Interesting to see England have a three match ODI series in The Netherlands.

Are the Netherlands cricket board paying for that, or do we have to go Dutch?

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 3:14 pm

We got over Zimbabwe sh1tting the bed some years ago, a world cup with Chris Gayle wouldnt be that ramificant tbh. Its a bit of leap to be sticking them below Scotland and co just yet though, there are some decent players still emerging. The real issue at this world cup has been a discipline on the field, even then theyve bneen head and shoulders above Afghanistan and wont end up much worse off than South Africa regardless of the coming matches.

The garaunteed series for the likes of the Netherlands are a big boost for them, and the top nations wont be able to just turn up and coast knowing that these affect qualification. Its a much better solution than furtehr bloating the world cup IMO. The chance for all levels to qualify for meangingful tournament play a rung up is big for them too.

On the surface 8 of the sides who qualify we can pretty much be sure of now as others have said, but thats a feature of how sharply levels drop off rather than any kind of unfairness or fix. Theres some potential for change in those 9/10 spots, and to be fair its not inconceivable that Sri Lanaka or even Bangladesh could slide in the way we have seen West Indies gradually decline.

Having a world cup with the bets teams qualifying should be the aim. This gives fair chance and a merit based system. Its also garuntees comeptitive games against top sides for minnows, and teams around their level in a comepetitive tournament. This help mitigate for the argument that a 10 team tournament doesnt do anything for the global game. Everyone get a snout in the trough.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 3:19 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Great post again, Robbo. thumbsup

Interesting to see England have a three match ODI series in The Netherlands.

Are the Netherlands cricket board paying for that, or do we have to go Dutch?

Touche.

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 8:52 pm

Lanka suddenly becomes a free-scoring side the moment pressure of world cup is off & WI continues to fall just short regardless of world-cup pressures

Sri Lanka
338/6

West Indies
315/9 Erm
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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 7:40 am

I'm more shocked by the west Indies managing to get over 300 tbh, especially Pooran making a decent century.
Effort levels on both sides seemed distinctly lacking with the ball and in the field. West Indies have some absolute passengers in Gayle ( when hes lost interest) and Braithwaite.
If they had held their discipline in that game against Aus and been able to see through the one against SA they'd have still been in the hunt and likely applying themselves much better in what instead was a dead rubber.
Its interesting that Sri lanka have been the team to pick themselves up after coming in to the tournament in a mess and continuing that run of form. Maybe a glimmer of hope for the future? I'm not reading too much into this one and Malingas days must be numbered now so it's hard to see. The decline has been long term, the production line of talent seems to have dried up. But I guess they had a decent swimming pool in the hotel for this one.
West Indies? It's just going to be more of the same. Allen might be a bright spark to replace Braithwaite as the nelotquitegoodenoughfortheballtogetselectedonthatandnotreallyanallrounderbutsomeonehastobatat7 player. Maybe Poorans batting will improve over time. Hetmeyer and Lewis have disappointed but can be better. Holder and Chase are decent players. Thomas is raw and could still improve, would be nice if he got some basic batting lessons of boycotts gran though. They really need a solid professional batsman and a proper spinner though. And as much as it's a cliche they do endlessly end up in this spiral of promising raw talent and explosive players collapsing in a heap of I'll discipline and lack of application.


Today's game...the suns out. The boundary is where it is. The pitch is a big more worn. India have even more of an injury crisis in their middle order.
It could be a really interesting game, Bangladesh should be motivated...its India. Theres already some fans congreatgatomg outside the ground and it might be even louder than the England game was!
With the pitch being a bit older the spinners should get more assistance , but we will see just how easy it really is to clear that side with a reverse sweep or if it actually takes genuine prowess and nerve to do it.


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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 8:29 am

Going back to Robos post about the next world cup qualification ....
Ireland just beat Zimbabwe to move level on points in the rankings with them. Netherlands also beat them twice last week and are now ranked above Scotland. 
Netherlands havent played a top 10 side since 2013, so the tri series against England i really quite a big deal for them. Good to see they are headed back in the right direction (although I suspect that this is also a case of Zimbabwe sliding further into oblivion).

After that group of teams its a huge slide off to Nepal, UAE and PNG based on the rankings. Beyond that you really are into club level teams. 

Its a bit rough on Scotland that they will miss out on the 13 team super league thing, especially as they have actually beaten a number one ranked side in recent times. They are head and shoulders above the teams in the second string qualifier, but thats who most of their games during the initial qualification period will have to be against.

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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 9:20 am

Gooseberry wrote: Theres already some fans congreatgatomg outside the ground...

Really? You have to give it to those fans. Smile
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