Martin Johnson's selections.

First topic message reminder :

I was actually looking for some SA rugby news to share with you guys, but then this article caught my eye.
Martin Corry is not too happy with Martin Johnson's squad selections.

Here is a link.

http://www.supersport.com/rugby/international/news/110715/Tighten_eligibility_rules_Corry


Please don't get all England bashing, try to be a little mature on this beautiful friday.

If people criticise Shaw (especially us Welsh) then you should study our own history first.

The legend that is Pricey was born in Egypt, it would take a braver man than me to tell him he's not Welsh.

There problem is players like Flutey, Hape, Marinos, Jones Hughes etc, even as far back as Copsey, Morris and Moon.

No Sam I don't see Shaw as foreign. Shaw's age is against him in my opinion. I can't see him playing the full 80.

I can understand why people dislike Borthwick but in my opinion with any unit like the backrow and 2nd row it's about balance.

Borthwick is the best lineout operator in the AP in my opinion. His work rate is underrated - that's what BV says anyway and I trust his judgement. He must have something about him to continually be captain.

I would pick Marler simply to give him vital experience in the England squad. As you say neither him or Payne would be picked so why waste a squad spot on Payne?

Attwood's discipline is no worse than other certain members of the England squad.

I know I am going to rile you now but I would pick Narraway,Dowson or Crane instead of Waldrom.

For a starting spot I agree re Waldrom. However, none of the above offer the same dynamic impact off of the bench that Waldrom does. Against tired legs his suprising turn of pace and clever angles make him a menace that can put you on the front foot. We could have certainly done with that kind of dynacism vs the Scottish and the Irish in the 6N. He is a gamble and Johnno will have to weigh it up but I think his inclusion is similar to Fourie's in that MJ desperately wants a ball carrying backrower who can bounce through tackles around the fringe and make some yards off of the bench. Stevens is back in the squad for a similar reason.

Do you need Shaw to last 80 mins though? If he's on the bench he will probabley play no more than 20 unless there's an injury and with 4 locks in the squad he can remain a bench option through out. He does offer a whole load of power and experience to the side, my only concern is his lack of subtlety at the breakdown.

Marler can't scrummage well enough to be considered on the international stage and is a young man playing a lot of rugby early in his career. Best for him to have the summer to relax and refresh. We saw at Tigers how fatigue became an issue for Youngs last season. He played a lot of rugby in his first season (because of injuries) and then went on a summer tour and then played a lot of rugby in his second season (because of Ellis' retirement) and it got to him. Tigers have now gone and bought a better backup in order to enable him to rest more. Young players need to be carefully managed.

beshocked wrote:I can understand why people dislike Borthwick but in my opinion with any unit like the backrow and 2nd row it's about balance.

Borthwick is the best lineout operator in the AP in my opinion. His work rate is underrated - that's what BV says anyway and I trust his judgement. He must have something about him to continually be captain.

The problem I have with Borthwick is that he got a lot of caps but rarely looked like he wasn't out of his depth - I think he's a very good club player but just lacks that little bit extra to make it at international level. And I consider his work rate in attack to be a hinderence - he's always looking for the ball but really struggles in contact against top players (a South African friend suggested England ought to give him the ball any time they're within ten yards of the opposition line then tackle him themselves, on the basis he'd never seen Borthwick fail to go backwards by 5-10 yards when he's tackled )

I would pick Marler simply to give him vital experience in the England squad. As you say neither him or Payne would be picked so why waste a squad spot on Payne?

I think the value is for training against - my hope is that the reason people like Payne and Worsley have been picked is that while they're not good enough, they have a lot of experience so they're good for the players who will be picked to train against. Can you think of a better way to prepare for the Aussie scrum than to practice against Payne?

the same might even be true of Botha and Waldrom - they're there not because they're expected to go to the WC but because they're good to train against given they learnt their style of play in the SH (Waldrom in particular, who plays very much as a SH backrow)

Sam why didn't Waldrom do that against Leinster or Saracens.....?

As I have said before about Fourie is top 10 for missed tackles in the AP! I don't want a flanker in the side who cannot tackle!

Stevens is in the side because he has been in great form for the AP champions.

You might need Shaw for most of a particular match if your first choice lock picks up an injury. Age and experience are two different things.

No Stevens is in the squad because he's an experienced player, good ball carrier and can cover both sides of the scrum (MJ likes that versatility see the introductions of Corbs and PDJ). Waldrom did make a decent impact off of the bench against Leinster unfortunatley we'd lost too much ground in the line outs and at the breakdown by that point for our late rally to have effect.