The Mayweather vs Pacquiao Debate

First topic message reminder :

It is an issue that polarises the sport, and get the most headlines. It is because the are opposites in the the ring and out.

Inside the ring Mayweather is a defensive fighter, safety first, whilst Manny is an attacking fighting that brings the excitement. Outside the ring Manny is well liked, humble happy and at peace, whilst Mayweather seems angry brash, arrogant, mentally troubled and problems with the law.

It is no surprise since they seem to be polar opposites that they split opinion.

In this thread I would like to discuss how there careers match up and who would win should they eventually face each other in the ring.

See lying again, is it a compulsion you have or do you just like irritating people?

imperialghosty wrote:Still spouting the same rubbish and lies I see d4

imperial - i dont know the exact details of wha has gone on behind closed doors (none of us do) but using the word 'lies' is a bit strong for D4s Opinions.

You may not agree (and a lot mey not agree) but can we tone down the use of 'lies' please.

You've just proven why he's lying because just me, you and everyone we don't know the exact details of the negotiations so for him to suggest anything as proof regards to them is a blatent lie.
The majority of us are sick to death of his agenda, within one week he's already started to turn a good forum into a bad one and knowing the opinions of many other posters their involvement will be kept to a minimum while D4 keeps repeating the same tired old rubbish.

imperialghosty wrote:You've just proven why he's lying because just me, you and everyone we don't know the exact details of the negotiations so for him to suggest anything as proof regards to them is a blatent lie.
The majority of us are sick to death of his agenda, within one week he's already started to turn a good forum into a bad one and knowing the opinions of many other posters their involvement will be kept to a minimum while D4 keeps repeating the same tired old rubbish.

Ok I made several points, some of which you might not think is true.

So lets take one point at a time.

Floyd has never said "I want to fight Manny Pacquiao"

Do you agree or disagree with that?

And if you don't can you provide any evidence contrary to that?

Is that why he opened negotiations about a fight with Pacquiao then, actually thinking about it i've never heard Mayweather say he wants to fight anyone so it's a completely irrelevant point.

Not like having your trainer say you wont fight someone because he's too good

Secondly do you agree or not agree that Team Mayweather and GBP denied that no negotiations were going on between Team Mayweather/GBP and Team Pacquiao/Top Rank when they clearly were and this was verified by the independent 3rd party HBO Ross Greenburg.

You are aware that no details of negotiations were allowed to be released to the media by either party aren't you?

imperialghosty wrote:Is that why he opened negotiations about a fight with Pacquiao then, actually thinking about it i've never heard Mayweather say he wants to fight anyone so it's a completely irrelevant point.

Not like having your trainer say you wont fight someone because he's too good

So you agree with me that Mayweather has never said he want to fight Pacquiao.

I believe he said he wanted to fight Oscar.

I don't see the point your trying to make

You don't open negotiations if you don't want to fight and im sick to death of your lying bulls*** now so can't be bothered discussing this for the millionth time having already shown you up so many times before

http://boxing.fanhouse.com/2010/07/26/hbos-ross-greenburg-floyd-mayweather-manny-pacquiao-negotiatio/

"It must have been quite a negotiation for Bob Arum to issue a statement that the fight was done, and that the members of Team Mayweather, whomever Ross was supposed to be negotiating with, were okay with the terms on the table, and that the deal was simply awaiting Floyd Mayweather's signature," said Schaefer.

Everything was agreed, the tests, the weight, the split, the venue, the gloves and all Floyd had to do is sign, but he decided to take a vacation.

You still think Floyd wants to fight Pacquiao?

Everything he has done says he doesn't want the fight.

imperialghosty wrote:I don't see the point your trying to make

You don't open negotiations if you don't want to fight and im sick to death of your lying bulls*** now so can't be bothered discussing this for the millionth time having already shown you up so many times before

The whole thing is a smokescreen to make it appear that Manny is the problem, If Floyd simply said he doesn't want to fight Pacquiao, even his most ardent fans would criticise him for that. But we have heard one excuse after another from Floyd why this fight cannot happen and he has move the goalposts several times.

D4thincarnation wrote:SBS
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Didn't agree to full random testing though did he, and to date never has. The nearest he's got is 7 days.
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"Full random testing" is just something Floyd made up, WADA do not test like that, Manny has every right to refuse, and has said from day one that he will take any test the commission sees fit. Why was 14 days ok in Floyd's mind in January but not in May, the only thing changed was the acceptance of Manny to come down to that limit, I wonder if that changed his view.

SBS
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Didn't stop him knocking hatton out in two rounds did it? Does having blood taken only affect mannys performance when he loses - or is it just a convenient excuse for being outclassed by morales? Hmmm.
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Against Hatton it was 30 days before the fight, against Morales it was a day before.


SBS.
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He's dodging manny right now, no doubt about that. But last January manny walked away from the fight refusing to take the same random tests his opponent was willing to take. Your inability and/or refusal to acknowledge simple facts doesn't alter what actually happened.
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Floyd would not compromise despite his team telling what Manny was offering 18 day as acceptable and it made no difference 14 days/18 days. Manny had to sign up a fight and it was clear that Floyd was not interested, he had to move on. My view on the situation is spot on, and I predicted all of it before it happened.

How does full random tests have a 14-18 cut off point. It doesn't become random then does it? Floyd was and is willing to take the same tests as Manny. They'd both be equally drained. FFS, Manny may lose more blood from a cut eye or busted nose.

D4thincarnation wrote:Secondly do you agree or not agree that Team Mayweather and GBP denied that no negotiations were going on between Team Mayweather/GBP and Team Pacquiao/Top Rank when they clearly were and this was verified by the independent 3rd party HBO Ross Greenburg.

Christmas!!! Thatchr denied negotiation with the IRA. The National Party denied negotiations with the ANC and Madiba. Israel always denies talks with Palestinians and Syrians. Yet talks happen which we are not privvy to. Any wikileaks on the PBF/Pac negotiations released yet?

It is so funny how some people think that the test Floyd was asking for are any sort of standard, it is not how WADA test in the Olympics.

If it was Olympic style testing Floyd would not have had an 19 day cut from blood testing in the Mosley fight.

Probably why there was no cut off and both fighters were tested 3 days before the fight then, lying again, your nose must be huge now.

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Secondly do you agree or not agree that Team Mayweather and GBP denied that no negotiations were going on between Team Mayweather/GBP and Team Pacquiao/Top Rank when they clearly were and this was verified by the independent 3rd party HBO Ross Greenburg.

Christmas!!! Thatchr denied negotiation with the IRA. The National Party denied negotiations with the ANC and Madiba. Israel always denies talks with Palestinians and Syrians. Yet talks happen which we are not privvy to. Any wikileaks on the PBF/Pac negotiations released yet?

Fortunately people that were privy to the Mayweather vs Pacquiao negotiations have given quotes to the media. And even the independent 3rd parties and mediator don't know why Floyd didn't sign.

Floyd has even came out while the negotiations were going on and said that he is not interested in boxing and wants to take a year or two out of the game to spend time with his family. What can you infer from that when you consider his relationship with his family.

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Secondly do you agree or not agree that Team Mayweather and GBP denied that no negotiations were going on between Team Mayweather/GBP and Team Pacquiao/Top Rank when they clearly were and this was verified by the independent 3rd party HBO Ross Greenburg.

Christmas!!! Thatchr denied negotiation with the IRA. The National Party denied negotiations with the ANC and Madiba. Israel always denies talks with Palestinians and Syrians. Yet talks happen which we are not privvy to. Any wikileaks on the PBF/Pac negotiations released yet?

Fortunately people that were privy to the Mayweather vs Pacquiao negotiations have given quotes to the media. And even the independent 3rd parties and mediator don't know why Floyd didn't sign.

Floyd has even came out while the negotiations were going on and said that he is not interested in boxing and wants to take a year or two out of the game to spend time with his family. What can you infer from that when you consider his relationship with his family.

D4, you excell in giving half a story.

imperialghosty wrote:Probably why there was no cut off and both fighters were tested 3 days before the fight then, lying again, your nose must be huge now.

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2010/05/mayweather-mosley-blood-testing-cutoff-was-18-days-before-the-fight/


http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=ki-bloodtests052110


Seems like there a lot of liars about.

http://www.boxingscene.com/nsac-mayweather-mosley-testing-cut-off-18-days--27962

Folks, just a gentle reminder - I don't want to have to edit posts - so please don't abuse each other.

I have no problem with questioning each other's interpretation of the facts; no more than that please.

okay guys - I should do this via PM but I am on my mobile and think maybe it needs to be said in public anywa.

The two of you need to get on.

D4 is allowed to have opinions, whether they are correct or not. You are allowed to have opinions back. That is the point of a open forum. d4 is obviously very pro manny and anti floyd. Does this make him a bad person? NO.

He is putting these points onto the relevant threads - if he repeats the same info on every thread, the moderators will delete them. However, here they are relevant.

Imperial - this is a new forum so sometimes points raised on 606 before need to be repeated on here for the benefit of newer posters. If you are still having the same discussions on every thread 6 months down the line, then fair enough, things will have indded gone too far and got boring.

No-one should be labelling others liars. You can disagree but come on guys, we are all adults. Tell him why he is wrong (if you have the will power left) and D4 - back up your statements. Act like good debaters as opposed to the namecalling metally.

d4 is not ruining this forum - you may be tired of his same rants about floyd from 606 but this i the right thread to do it. He has also posted some other great articles on here.

I tried to start debate with some different topics but found my topics ignored. I am glad you are both on here as you have strong opinions and mostly good knowledge. Live with each other or it will transcend into nonsense.

If D4 or anyone tries to spoil this forum, then action will be taken. Currently its at the healthy debate stage on a relevant thread - if it spills over then the mods will get involved.

Please learn to live with each other - if you feel like discussing this further, please contact ,e via pm.

This is a new start for everyone - ignore comments you feel have been already answered and let newer members have their say. There are plenty of other boxing threads to answer in, like my excellent one about !the contender' for example!

As a final resort, if D4 bothers you that much, I believe that you can filter out his comments using the 'foe' option on your profile. However, I really hope that it doesnt come to that.

Now i want to see everyone hug and make up.

Uncle Hobo

Well said Hobo.

Manny may have struggled with Marquez, he still racked up 4 knock downs and over 300 punches scored. He adapted well to Marquez's tactics, landing good shots in every round. With Manny's speed and movement, i reckon he can negate Floyd's shell or shoulder roll defence. He won't be in the same place for that long and the combo's wll be flying in from every direction. Manny does have a defence, his speed, plus he throws counter shots while moving backwards.

Marquez's style is different to Mayweather, he is busy on the backfoot, while Floyd is much slower. I don't believe fewer punches will cause Manny problems, it allows him more time and space in the ring. These days, while still dangerous, Mosely is just chasing opponents around and throwing punches at them. Thats not a difficult style to adapt to and Pacquiao would be a totally different prospect. No charging forwards from Pacquiao, he utilises smart approach play and is a versatile fighter.

There are allegations that Pacquiao had an affair, nothing more. Manny conducts himself modestly and charmingly outside of the ring. No arrogance or obsession with money, no spousal abuse charges pending. An affair isn't that bad anyway, its a personal matter.

ArchBritishchris wrote:Manny may have struggled with Marquez, he still racked up 4 knock downs and over 300 punches scored. He adapted well to Marquez's tactics, landing good shots in every round. With Manny's speed and movement, i reckon he can negate Floyd's shell or shoulder roll defence. He won't be in the same place for that long and the combo's wll be flying in from every direction. Manny does have a defence, his speed, plus he throws counter shots while moving backwards.

Marquez's style is different to Mayweather, he is busy on the backfoot, while Floyd is much slower. I don't believe fewer punches will cause Manny problems, it allows him more time and space in the ring. These days, while still dangerous, Mosely is just chasing opponents around and throwing punches at them. Thats not a difficult style to adapt to and Pacquiao would be a totally different prospect. No charging forwards from Pacquiao, he utilises smart approach play and is a versatile fighter.

There are allegations that Pacquiao had an affair, nothing more. Manny conducts himself modestly and charmingly outside of the ring. No arrogance or obsession with money, no spousal abuse charges pending. An affair isn't that bad anyway, its a personal matter.

Floyd is light years ahead of Marquez in terms of speed and seeing how frequently Marquez landed, I genuinely fear for Pac when he fights floyd. If Pac doesn't attack Floyd frequently and decides to box, he loses even bigger. If he attacks floyd as he does with every other boxer, Floyd will counter him to peices. Floyd has all the aces. The only area of doubt is that Pac is a lefty. But Floyd handled Shamba Mitchell with relative ease.

Who cares is Pac shagged a million women? I dont care if boxers are animals outside the ring. They're job is to beat each other up and not be role models for society. In fact if more boxers were animals outside, it would gain more interest. Colourful fighters put more bums on seats.

Always favoured Floyd for this fight. The trick for me is that Floyd seems genuinely keen to avoid a fight with Manny.

A key to this could be that Freddie Roach seems genuinely convinced he has Floyd sussed, and that he has the fighter to do it. When he trained Oscar for Floyd, Oscar gave folyd a fight. Roach felt that even then Oscar had lost his snap.

I still feel that Floyd is so good in everything he does that he wins this fight all day long. I just get the impression he's running a little scared.

I dont believe he is scared per se. He wants the best deal and he is rightfully concerned about the use of PEDs. Even if he is not concerned about PEDs, boxers will use anything to gain a psychological advantage against their opponent. Its normal and has been done through the ages.

Mayweather is scared, maybe not scared of the beating he will take but scared of losing his 0 he knows that is his meal ticket without it he will lose half audience, because most people watch Mayweather fight hoping he will lose.

Pacquiao has passed every test given to him by NSAC who used the WADA prohibited list and WADA testing procedure.

And as posted earlier Pacquiao and Mayweather agreed terms on blood testing and the fight terms in general but Mayweather did not want to sign.

This what I mean you make up lies non-stop, the NSAC do not use the WADA testing procedure, which requires random all season testing which i'll admit is pretty damm hard to achieve in a sport like boxing.

D4thincarnation wrote:Mayweather is scared, maybe not scared of the beating he will take but scared of losing his 0 he knows that is his meal ticket without it he will lose half audience, because most people watch Mayweather fight hoping he will lose.

Pacquiao has passed every test given to him by NSAC who used the WADA prohibited list and WADA testing procedure.

And as posted earlier Pacquiao and Mayweather agreed terms on blood testing and the fight terms in general but Mayweather did not want to sign.

Now you are being ridiculous. I recall a quote from Larry Holmes after Tyson knocked him out. Asked why he fought him after being shown a pic of him lying on the canvass, his response was "Give me $5m and I'll pose for you like that again".

For $50m Floyd would fight Pac. He knows he has possible 2 more years at peak level and will not make as much without fighting Pac. His zero is prescious but not the difference maker. He took a bigger risk fighting ODLH at Oscar's correct weight.

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Mayweather is scared, maybe not scared of the beating he will take but scared of losing his 0 he knows that is his meal ticket without it he will lose half audience, because most people watch Mayweather fight hoping he will lose.

Pacquiao has passed every test given to him by NSAC who used the WADA prohibited list and WADA testing procedure.

And as posted earlier Pacquiao and Mayweather agreed terms on blood testing and the fight terms in general but Mayweather did not want to sign.

Now you are being ridiculous. I recall a quote from Larry Holmes after Tyson knocked him out. Asked why he fought him after being shown a pic of him lying on the canvass, his response was "Give me $5m and I'll pose for you like that again".

For $50m Floyd would fight Pac. He knows he has possible 2 more years at peak level and will not make as much without fighting Pac. His zero is prescious but not the difference maker. He took a bigger risk fighting ODLH at Oscar's correct weight.

If Floyd is earning 30 million from fighting easy fights and keeps his 0 then he will take those. If he fights Manny and loses then no more earning 30 million from easy fights.

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Mayweather is scared, maybe not scared of the beating he will take but scared of losing his 0 he knows that is his meal ticket without it he will lose half audience, because most people watch Mayweather fight hoping he will lose.

Pacquiao has passed every test given to him by NSAC who used the WADA prohibited list and WADA testing procedure.

And as posted earlier Pacquiao and Mayweather agreed terms on blood testing and the fight terms in general but Mayweather did not want to sign.

Now you are being ridiculous. I recall a quote from Larry Holmes after Tyson knocked him out. Asked why he fought him after being shown a pic of him lying on the canvass, his response was "Give me $5m and I'll pose for you like that again".

For $50m Floyd would fight Pac. He knows he has possible 2 more years at peak level and will not make as much without fighting Pac. His zero is prescious but not the difference maker. He took a bigger risk fighting ODLH at Oscar's correct weight.

If Floyd is earning 30 million from fighting easy fights and keeps his 0 then he will take those. If he fights Manny and loses then no more earning 30 million from easy fights.

Easy fights such as who that earn him $30m?

D4thincarnation: If Floyd is earning 30 million from fighting easy fights and keeps his 0 then he will take those. If he fights Manny and loses then no more earning 30 million from easy fights.
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What - easy fighys like mosley? Remind me again who manny is about to fight a year after floyd owned him.

(cue D4's usual speech about mosley having 17 months of ring rust when mayweather beat him but for the manny fight he will have turned into the Dorian Gray of boxing and will be virtually a prime mosley).

Mayweather wins this fight when it finally takes place. The more I think about it the more certain I am that manny will be entering into a contest that he just hasnt got the tools to win.

Happy 34th Birthday

Pay your tributes to a true legend in boxing

Well at least he is not in the slammer so he should be happy.

Maybe they should hold a surprise party for him where Pacquiao jumps out of they cake and boxes his ears off.

34 is the age I said where fighter around welter start on the downward slide, will Floyd's inactivity slower down the process or quicken it.

D4

Pacquiao can't even "box" Marquez ears off so what chance would he have against the most skilled boxer out there. Pacquiao should stick to boxing one dimensional boxers

Morning Gents,

Just a nod to say that whilst this thread has a purpose, if it turns into another Manny v Floyd debate it will be merged.

Cheers,

KB

D4thincarnation wrote:Well at least he is not in the slammer so he should be happy.

Maybe they should hold a surprise party for him where Pacquiao jumps out of they cake and boxes his ears off.

34 is the age I said where fighter around welter start on the downward slide, will Floyd's inactivity slower down the process or quicken it.

What about when they reach 39? Do they become a good candidate for a world title tilt?

34 and still p4p the best boxer still active today. Good stuf. A pleasure to watch his skills. Pity he didn't fight more often though.

Shantel Jackson Boyfriend wrote:Happy 34th Birthday

Pay your tributes to a true legend in boxing

Happy Birthday Floyd you had a super-featherweight career you could be proud of.

KB

Can we not just merge it anyway?

done

Floyd was a fantastic fighter at Super-Feather; at worst the second best ever at that weight.

A shame he hasn't fought more often in recent years and I would back him to beat Pacquiao by a close, but clear points decision.

Floyd HAD a problem with judah for the first few rounds, figured him out and then took him to school. Manny needs to blast him out within 5 rounds or he will get humiliated.

BoxingFan88 wrote:Floyd HAD a problem with judah for the first few rounds, figured him out and then took him to school. Manny needs to blast him out within 5 rounds or he will get humiliated.

Floyd had a problem with Judah's southpaw stance and his speed, he could not counter, and Floyd didn't figure him out, Uncle Roger did, he told Floyd that he couldn't wait for Judah to throw, because he was not fast enough to react he had to take the fight to him and get of first.

Now Manny is a southpaw and is fast and unlike Judah, Manny loves when fighters take the fight to him.

D4thincarnation wrote:

BoxingFan88 wrote:Floyd HAD a problem with judah for the first few rounds, figured him out and then took him to school. Manny needs to blast him out within 5 rounds or he will get humiliated.

Floyd had a problem with Judah's southpaw stance and his speed, he could not counter, and Floyd didn't figure him out, Uncle Roger did, he told Floyd that he couldn't wait for Judah to throw, because he was not fast enough to react he had to take the fight to him and get of first.

Now Manny is a southpaw and is fast and unlike Judah, Manny loves when fighters take the fight to him.

Isn't that the role of the chief second? The point is Floyd listened and adapted to Roger's advice to win easily. Manny may love fighters to take the fight to him, but Floyd will counter Manny to a clear UD of late stoppage. Floyd wins very easily. After 3 rounds, Floyd dominates.

Floyd will jab and counter manny to death.. Just like marquez did (twice) but this time the punches coming back will be more accurate and have more sting on them. Manny will have filled his Pinoy pants with the brown stuff by round 8 or 9 after realising he's bitten off more than he can chew.

Roger Mayweather with his latest rant when someone mentions the name Pacquiao.

http://www.boxingscene.com/roger-mayweather-manny-pacquiao-roach-sht--36406

There ain't no way in the world that Manny Pacquiao can whoop my nephew. Manny Pacquiao ain't sh*t and I'll tell his trainer than he ain't sh*t. He couldn't fight his own motherf**king self. He's a punchy motherf**ker himself. He couldn't even train himself

One thinks the lady does protest too much :lol:

This comes after Mayweather childishly posted Pacquiao's losses on Pacquiao facebook page after months of staying quiet when Pacquiao was calling him out.

Pacquiao took the high ground yet again in his response saying that he is praying for Floyd.

I like them both, would be a neutral if a fight were to go ahead. Love watching the dynamism of Manny, and the skills of Floyd. Have to say though, for the reasons stated by others - unless Floyd is taken down very early, he wins either late in the game or via U/D. I think he's got the chin to withstand the early onslaught and then start picking off Manny at will once he gets into gear and starts boxing clever. Manny would need to try and disrupt the gameplan as much as possible, change things up - but it's pretty tough to do that when you're chasing someone who you can barely hit most of the time. Floyd must be an almighty pain to fight.

And not meaning to cause offense, as I've never seen you before D4, but you do seem to have a bit of an agenda with your posts?

Silver wrote:I like them both, would be a neutral if a fight were to go ahead. Love watching the dynamism of Manny, and the skills of Floyd. Have to say though, for the reasons stated by others - unless Floyd is taken down very early, he wins either late in the game or via U/D. I think he's got the chin to withstand the early onslaught and then start picking off Manny at will once he gets into gear and starts boxing clever. Manny would need to try and disrupt the gameplan as much as possible, change things up - but it's pretty tough to do that when you're chasing someone who you can barely hit most of the time. Floyd must be an almighty pain to fight.

And not meaning to cause offense, as I've never seen you before D4, but you do seem to have a bit of an agenda with your posts?

I think d4 has a racist agenda against floyd. This is my opinion which I am entitled to

Silver wrote:I like them both, would be a neutral if a fight were to go ahead. Love watching the dynamism of Manny, and the skills of Floyd. Have to say though, for the reasons stated by others - unless Floyd is taken down very early, he wins either late in the game or via U/D. I think he's got the chin to withstand the early onslaught and then start picking off Manny at will once he gets into gear and starts boxing clever. Manny would need to try and disrupt the gameplan as much as possible, change things up - but it's pretty tough to do that when you're chasing someone who you can barely hit most of the time. Floyd must be an almighty pain to fight.

And not meaning to cause offense, as I've never seen you before D4, but you do seem to have a bit of an agenda with your posts?

Agenda? Everyone has and agenda, on hear mine is to talk about boxing.