Ireland Team for 1st France Test

Mickado wrote:

ballroomhero wrote:Is this game JUST on RTE? Any ideas for GB-based viewers?

It's on BBC Wales as far as i know. Not even on RTE. that's a trip to the pub for me. hate that!

Really? I thought RTE had bought the rights to this.

Thomond wrote:DOC is an immense tackler his workrate is akin to that of a backrow but SOB will have to do a lot of work on Saturday and I don't know if he can.

Just compared the combined no. of tackles that the backrow have to put when either Sexton or ROG are playing:

Sexton: v Scotland last week; Backrow row made 34 tackles. France (6Ns this year): 31 tackles (- Heaslip was particularly busy with 14).
O'Gara: v Scotland in 6Ns; Backrow made 29 tackles. France (6Ns last year in Paris): 21 tackles (and that was the game Healy was binned in so you would expect the backrow to have to do a bit more).

France didn't target O'Gara's channel. In fact, he only made 6 tackles (missing 1) which is about half what he normally has to do.

I thought RTE had the two French games? Isn't the England game on sky sports? Surely RTE are showing more than 1 game?

I hope Paddy W does not shift to 10 when Ferg comes on, I have a bad feeling it will though. We have already seen him outside Paddy, and it would be good to see him outside Rog. Not sure Rog will get the full 80 though comming back from injury.

Injury is a killer though. BOD, Darce, Ferris, Jennings, we really need most of them at their best come the 16th of Sept.

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:DOC is an immense tackler his workrate is akin to that of a backrow but SOB will have to do a lot of work on Saturday and I don't know if he can.

Just compared the combined no. of tackles that the backrow have to put when either Sexton or ROG are playing:

Sexton: v Scotland last week; Backrow row made 34 tackles. France (6Ns this year): 31 tackles (- Heaslip was particularly busy with 14).
O'Gara: v Scotland in 6Ns; Backrow made 29 tackles. France (6Ns last year in Paris): 21 tackles (and that was the game Healy was binned in so you would expect the backrow to have to do a bit more).

France didn't target O'Gara's channel. In fact, he only made 6 tackles (missing 1) which is about half what he normally has to do.

Probably because they were able to score their tries out wide.

Mickado wrote:

ballroomhero wrote:Is this game JUST on RTE? Any ideas for GB-based viewers?

It's on BBC Wales as far as i know. Not even on RTE. that's a trip to the pub for me. hate that!

It is on RTE. Sorry if that ruins the pub trip.

MBTGOG wrote:

Mickado wrote:

ballroomhero wrote:Is this game JUST on RTE? Any ideas for GB-based viewers?

It's on BBC Wales as far as i know. Not even on RTE. that's a trip to the pub for me. hate that!

Really? I thought RTE had bought the rights to this.

Its on rte, they have been advertising it anyway, at 19.15 saturday night.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:I hope Paddy W does not shift to 10 when Ferg comes on, I have a bad feeling it will though. We have already seen him outside Paddy, and it would be good to see him outside Rog. Not sure Rog will get the full 80 though comming back from injury.

Injury is a killer though. BOD, Darce, Ferris, Jennings, we really need most of them at their best come the 16th of Sept.

McFadden outside wallace at ten would be grand. I feel sorry for jennings and his injury but realistically he isn't going to make the matchday squad against australia or italy.

Lads. I’m sorry. I was getting mixed up with Leinster’s first game of the season (I was discussing how that would only be shown on BBC Wales today with someone).

Why in the name of sufferin jeysus would BBC Wales be showing Ireland v France?

Consider it a brain shart, I’ve cleaned up and changed my pants, now lets park it and move on.
Please.
Just let it go ok.
For the children.

I'm going to the pub anyway.

Feck seck Mick you nearly gave me a attack. My whole weekend is planned around this game!

Mickado wrote:Lads. I’m sorry. I was getting mixed up with Leinster’s first game of the season (I was discussing how that would only be shown on BBC Wales today with someone).

Why in the name of sufferin jeysus would BBC Wales be showing Ireland v France?

Consider it a brain shart, I’ve cleaned up and changed my pants, now lets park it and move on.
Please.
Just let it go ok.
For the children.

So to get things straight, it's on BBC2NI? Wait, have I got it mixed up again?

Me too Rodders, this and the Dubs on Sunday. Can't bleedin wait!

valjester wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:I hope Paddy W does not shift to 10 when Ferg comes on, I have a bad feeling it will though. We have already seen him outside Paddy, and it would be good to see him outside Rog. Not sure Rog will get the full 80 though comming back from injury.

Injury is a killer though. BOD, Darce, Ferris, Jennings, we really need most of them at their best come the 16th of Sept.

McFadden outside wallace at ten would be grand. I feel sorry for jennings and his injury but realistically he isn't going to make the matchday squad against australia or italy.

Not sure about that if Ferris didn't make it. But I have resigned myself to his being behind Leamy for 5th choice (with Ryan as 4th lock and 6 cover)

If Ferris AND Jennings do not make it, who do people think gets the last br spot behind Leamy?

BBC 2 NI? Is it on there? Nothing on any TV schedule shows it anywhere?

ballroomhero wrote:BBC 2 NI? Is it on there? Nothing on any TV schedule shows it anywhere?

It was a joke. It's only on RTE.

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:DOC is an immense tackler his workrate is akin to that of a backrow but SOB will have to do a lot of work on Saturday and I don't know if he can.

Just compared the combined no. of tackles that the backrow have to put when either Sexton or ROG are playing:

Sexton: v Scotland last week; Backrow row made 34 tackles. France (6Ns this year): 31 tackles (- Heaslip was particularly busy with 14).
O'Gara: v Scotland in 6Ns; Backrow made 29 tackles. France (6Ns last year in Paris): 21 tackles (and that was the game Healy was binned in so you would expect the backrow to have to do a bit more).

France didn't target O'Gara's channel. In fact, he only made 6 tackles (missing 1) which is about half what he normally has to do.

That proves absolutely nothing on its own, what about possession or the context of the game? Scotland were chasing the game when Sexton came on so had more of the ball, we were chasing the game when ROG came on vs France so we had more of the ball. So those stats make sense and don't prove that ROG is a better defender/ doesn't get targeted/ X Munster player is better than Y Leinster player or whatever you are trying to prove.

Balls. Ah well, back to the debate on the match I won't get to see...

the-goon wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:DOC is an immense tackler his workrate is akin to that of a backrow but SOB will have to do a lot of work on Saturday and I don't know if he can.

Just compared the combined no. of tackles that the backrow have to put when either Sexton or ROG are playing:

Sexton: v Scotland last week; Backrow row made 34 tackles. France (6Ns this year): 31 tackles (- Heaslip was particularly busy with 14).
O'Gara: v Scotland in 6Ns; Backrow made 29 tackles. France (6Ns last year in Paris): 21 tackles (and that was the game Healy was binned in so you would expect the backrow to have to do a bit more).

France didn't target O'Gara's channel. In fact, he only made 6 tackles (missing 1) which is about half what he normally has to do.

That proves absolutely nothing on its own, what about possession or the context of the game? Scotland were chasing the game when Sexton came on so had more of the ball, we were chasing the game when ROG came on vs France so we had more of the ball. So those stats make sense and don't prove that ROG is a better defender/ doesn't get targeted/ X Munster player is better than Y Leinster player or whatever you are trying to prove.

Goon - looks like you haven't met Sin E yet......

Mickado wrote:Me too Rodders, this and the Dubs on Sunday. Can't bleedin wait!

You looking forward to the Dubs on Sunday?

Lambs to the slaughter (i hope).

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:Me too Rodders, this and the Dubs on Sunday. Can't bleedin wait!

You looking forward to the Dubs on Sunday?

Lambs to the slaughter (i hope).

Looking forward to our first semifinal since before my oul fella was born. Not holding out much hope though.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

valjester wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:I hope Paddy W does not shift to 10 when Ferg comes on, I have a bad feeling it will though. We have already seen him outside Paddy, and it would be good to see him outside Rog. Not sure Rog will get the full 80 though comming back from injury.

Injury is a killer though. BOD, Darce, Ferris, Jennings, we really need most of them at their best come the 16th of Sept.

McFadden outside wallace at ten would be grand. I feel sorry for jennings and his injury but realistically he isn't going to make the matchday squad against australia or italy.

Not sure about that if Ferris didn't make it. But I have resigned myself to his being behind Leamy for 5th choice (with Ryan as 4th lock and 6 cover)

If Ferris AND Jennings do not make it, who do people think gets the last br spot behind Leamy?

One of them will make it, but mclaughlin if they don't. And if ferris doesn't make it, leamy and jennings will go.

McLaughlin hasnt a hope in my view.

the-goon wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:DOC is an immense tackler his workrate is akin to that of a backrow but SOB will have to do a lot of work on Saturday and I don't know if he can.

Just compared the combined no. of tackles that the backrow have to put when either Sexton or ROG are playing:

Sexton: v Scotland last week; Backrow row made 34 tackles. France (6Ns this year): 31 tackles (- Heaslip was particularly busy with 14).
O'Gara: v Scotland in 6Ns; Backrow made 29 tackles. France (6Ns last year in Paris): 21 tackles (and that was the game Healy was binned in so you would expect the backrow to have to do a bit more).

France didn't target O'Gara's channel. In fact, he only made 6 tackles (missing 1) which is about half what he normally has to do.

That proves absolutely nothing on its own, what about possession or the context of the game? Scotland were chasing the game when Sexton came on so had more of the ball, we were chasing the game when ROG came on vs France so we had more of the ball. So those stats make sense and don't prove that ROG is a better defender/ doesn't get targeted/ X Munster player is better than Y Leinster player or whatever you are trying to prove.

The point of those stats is to illustrate that the backrow put in a similar amount of tackles per game when either of Sexton or O'Gara START. Both OHs started the games I've looked at.

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:Me too Rodders, this and the Dubs on Sunday. Can't bleedin wait!

You looking forward to the Dubs on Sunday?

Lambs to the slaughter (i hope).

Looking forward to our first semifinal since before my oul fella was born. Not holding out much hope though.

So am I looking forward to it. Always envied other teams not playing the Dubs in Croke Park.

Dublin will be slaughtered. But to be fair, they're probably the third best hurling team in the country at the moment. That would have been unthinkable 5 years ago.

On to rugby. There's two thing I constantly disagree with Kidney on. His lack of interest in Jennings. And his high rating of TOL. I know it's his job to make these calls and I'll never agree with everything any manager does. But I genuinely think he's wrong in both these cases.

Kado,you will be crying your eyes out after Sunday.

Sin é wrote:
The point of those stats is to illustrate that the backrow put in a similar amount of tackles per game when either of Sexton or O'Gara START. Both OHs started the games I've looked at.

Yes but sin you can't just look at the number of tackles you have to look at the context and area of the field that they're making them. Just because they are making the same mount of tackles doesn't mean anything. You'd expect your backrow to have a huge tackle count regardless of who is playing 10.

What matters is that if they are defending in the 10 channel it's more likely to be on the back foot and it leaves us unable to commit as many defenders to the break down.

Artful_Dodger wrote:McLaughlin hasnt a hope in my view.

Nope but my point is that in the case of injuries (more than one) he might make it.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
The point of those stats is to illustrate that the backrow put in a similar amount of tackles per game when either of Sexton or O'Gara START. Both OHs started the games I've looked at.

Yes but sin you can't just look at the number of tackles you have to look at the context and area of the field that they're making them. Just because they are making the same mount of tackles doesn't mean anything. You'd expect your backrow to have a huge tackle count regardless of who is playing 10.

What matters is that if they are defending in the 10 channel it's more likely to be on the back foot and it leaves us unable to commit as many defenders to the break down.

The stats supplied are more than adequate to counter argue the point made that Sean O'Brien (a backrower) is going to have to make more tackles if ROG is playing. He isn't.

I combined the tackles made by the backrowers, rather than selecting the No. 7's tackles as their roles do change from match-to-match.

Sin é wrote:
The stats supplied are more than adequate to counter argue the point made that Sean O'Brien (a backrower) is going to have to make more tackles if ROG is playing. He isn't.

I combined the tackles made by the backrowers, rather than selecting the No. 7's tackles as their roles do change from match-to-match.

Well not really Sin. More often than not the 7 will be 1st to the 10 channel of 1st phase because he's on the openside of the scrum. Ideally you want the 10 to make the tackle and the 7 be the 1st man in to contest the ball, you don't want the 7 having to help out with the tackle if possible.

Can we move on to something else? And without the constant statistics?

I for one am happy with the centre combination. It's what I asked for before the team was announced so I'm happy that Kidney has gone with Wallace and Earls.

I think the biggest problem now though is we look very light at 10-12-13. Having said that though, Wallace and Earls are good tacklers so hopefully we won't be exposed in defence.

We will need our pack to cross the gainline regularly though to give room for our centres to work in. I think this combo wouldn't have worked behind the pack that played Scotland (in the same way Wallace and McFadden never really had a chance).

How do other people see it going?

Any word on the France team? has that been announced?

FRANCE : Traille – Clerc, Marty, Mermoz, Palisson – (o) Trinh-Duc, (m) Yachvili – Lakafia, Harinordoquy, Dusautoir (cap) – Millo-Chluski, Pierre – Ducalcon, Szarzewski, Marconnet 

Announced yesterday

FRANCE :

15. Traille
14. Clerc
13. Marty
12. Mermoz
11. Palisson
10. Trinh-Duc
9. Yachvili
8. Lakafia
7. Harinordoquy
6. Dusautoir (cap)
5. Millo-Chluski
4. Pierre
3. Ducalcon
2. Szarzewski
1. Marconnet

16. Guirado
17. Poux
18. Nallet
19. Bonnaire
20. Parra
21. Skrela
22. Médard

The bench: Guirado, Poux, Nallet, Bonnaire, Parra, Skrela, Médard

I agree with MMC.
As Homer Simpson said,facts are meaningless,you can prove anything with facts.

MMC wrote:Can we move on to something else? And without the constant statistics?

I for one am happy with the centre combination. It's what I asked for before the team was announced so I'm happy that Kidney has gone with Wallace and Earls.

I think the biggest problem now though is we look very light at 10-12-13. Having said that though, Wallace and Earls are good tacklers so hopefully we won't be exposed in defence.

We will need our pack to cross the gainline regularly though to give room for our centres to work in. I think this combo wouldn't have worked behind the pack that played Scotland (in the same way Wallace and McFadden never really had a chance).

How do other people see it going?

I'm not concerned at all with the defence as long as they can work as a unit.

I'm a bit concerned with the attack though. ROG tends to stand very deep and really you don't want to see Wallace or Earls Bashing it up into contact. I'm concerned we'll just ship the ball across field and struggle to get over the advantage line.

I'd have liked to see that centre combo with Sexton rather than ROG as they'd be playing a bit flatter and Sexton commits defenders where as ROG doesn't.

To be fair Rodders, Wallace will straighten the line if need be. He won't go through players but he'll present clean ball. So long as Trimble and Kearney straighten up we'd be okay- I just want to see Kearney come into the line more. And I want to see O'Brien in the midfield as well. Ronan spent a lot of time in the backs against Scotland, but he's far from the go to man O'Brien is! I think we'll be okay.

I guess this team selection pretty much means Leamy definitely will be in the squad possibly Ryan too. Not the team I would have picked but anyways. Can't really see this team getting a win but you never know. Hopefully the backs will show a bit of creativity and invention something lacking in the Kidney era.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
The stats supplied are more than adequate to counter argue the point made that Sean O'Brien (a backrower) is going to have to make more tackles if ROG is playing. He isn't.

I combined the tackles made by the backrowers, rather than selecting the No. 7's tackles as their roles do change from match-to-match.

Well not really Sin. More often than not the 7 will be 1st to the 10 channel of 1st phase because he's on the openside of the scrum. Ideally you want the 10 to make the tackle and the 7 be the 1st man in to contest the ball, you don't want the 7 having to help out with the tackle if possible.

OK, one more time. There is not a huge increase in the number of tackles that the backrow have to make in a sample of two teams x 4 matches which both OH have played against.

From looking at those stats, would might glean that the French prefer attacking down the flanks and that is possibly why Luke Fitz is chosen because, whatever about his form in attack, his defence is excellent.

Ireland tackle in pairs now, so I'm not too sure why you want the 7 in particular to do his tackling on his own.?

Something lacking in the Kidney/Gaffney era, yes. I really don't think our backplay has been good for a while now whoever is filling the jerseys.

Thomond wrote:I agree with MMC.
As Homer Simpson said,facts are meaningless,you can prove anything with facts.

If you can prove anything with facts, why don't you prove as you have claimed that O'Brien will have to make more tackles because O'Gara is the OH?

He will have to make more tackles anyway as he is the key man in that backrow. ROG could be targetted not saying he will be as the French target our centres and wingers more often.

Gaffney leaves at the end of the year I think doesn't he? He used be quite a creative mind when it comes to back play no? In any case some fresh thinking is required.

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:I agree with MMC.
As Homer Simpson said,facts are meaningless,you can prove anything with facts.

If you can prove anything with facts, why don't you prove as you have claimed that O'Brien will have to make more tackles because O'Gara is the OH?

I think he meant make more tackles as Donncha Ryan is at blindside and he needs to step up.

Sin,
Look, I know you're passionate about Irish rugby and you want what's best for the team, but why does every single debate descend into you arguing your corner ad nauseum against someone else? Could you not just agree to disagree and move on?

Notch,
I agree. Our back play is nowhere near as dangerous as it used to be. You could argue that we actually have better players now than we did, it's just that Gaffney seems to have sucked any creativity out of them. I can't remember the last time we saw an effective backs move.
Against Australia in 2009 maybe, off 1st phase ball when BOD scored the try to level it. That's going back a while though.

Thomond wrote:He will have to make more tackles anyway as he is the key man in that backrow. ROG could be targetted not saying he will be as the French target our centres and wingers more often.

This is the post of yours I was responding to?

Can Sean O'Brien actualy do one of his primary jobs as a backrow on Saturday. His breakdown work will be interesting to watch as will his tackle count and how he will protect ROG.

I think we can all agree we are likely to get a bit of a roasting at the weekend imho even if we played our strongest team we would still lose in france as we are just jinxed over there

But i fully expect us to beat them in Ireland

I don't agree, I think they are beatable and we can get the result. How is it you think we'll get to the Final of the RWC but don't back us to win a warm-up