Which Welsh region has the best backline?

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The Scarlets and the Blues with both have very exciting backlines once all the internationals return. The Ospreys have had some massive departures, but probably for the better and don't look as strong in the backs, but we all know forwards win matches and the Ospreys are top because of this. Also they have a great academy system and a big squad.

SCARLETS

9. KNOYLE
10. PRIESTLAND / JONES
11. LAMONT
12. JD2
13. WILLIAMS
14. NORTH
15. STODDART

BLUES

9. WILLIAMS / REES
10. HENSON / PARKS
11. CUTHBERT / TOM JAMES
12. ROBERTS
13. LAULALA
14. HALFPENNY
15. CZEKAJ / BLAIR

OSPREYS

9. WEBB / FOTATUALALIANIII
10. BIGGAR / MORGAN
11. WILLIAMS / DIRKSEN
12. BECK / PARKER / OWEN
13. BISHOP / ISAACS
14. BOWE / WALKER
15. FUSSELL / PRYDIE

I think the Ospreys need to invest in a quality centre.

Morgannwg wrote:What's your issue here child?

my issue seems to be you stating emphatically that Cardiff's backline would 'waltz' through the Scarlet's backline despite having the chance to do so twice last season and failing miserably, as for 'child', well, wish I could be young again.

Hello, are we in last season or this season? If that's your issue then offer some opposing views based on facts instead of acting like a child.

Turkster wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:What's your issue here child?

my issue seems to be you stating emphatically that Cardiff's backline would 'waltz' through the Scarlet's backline despite having the chance to do so twice last season and failing miserably, as for 'child', well, wish I could be young again.

The Blues backline certainly wouldnt 'waltz' through the Scarlets (though Henson might )

There are pretty evenly matched at the moment

9. Lloyd Williams vs Tavis Knoyle - Blues
10. Parks/Henson vs Preistland/Jones - Scarlets easily for now
11. James vs Lamont - Scarlets for consistancy
12. Roberts vs JD2 - Blues
13. Laulaula vs Williams - Blues
14. Cuthberts vs North - Scarlets
15. Halfpenny vs Stoddart - Blues for now

Though a lot of that is form based - and the difference in class between Parks and Preistland is huge, if the Blues had Priestland and the Scarlets had Jones........

you say that but this season when the Scarlets played the Blues last weekend, we did beat them 30-3, so whose backline waltzed through who's again?

You can argue it was only the LV, but I think it was clear which side has the better back up backline for sure.

Morganwg - I haven't seen Henson play 10 since about 2005 (probably earlier). Can't agree with him being an "exceptional" 10 when he hasn't played there for 6 years. Give him a run of games and we'll see, but I seriously doubt it. I'd leave him at 12.

i hope henson plays well just as it offers potentially another option and thats never a bad thing- scarlets backline is very dangerous and the blues could be dangerous with the right 10 espicially if he brings roberts into a game like priestland has done for wales

Realistically I think 10 is his best bet of getting regular game time at the Blues.

Can't see him shifting Roberts or Halfpenny from the Centre/XV (if he plays there) slot but Parks is very hit n miss whilst Sweeney isn't a patch on an in form Henson.

Morgannwg wrote:Hello, are we in last season or this season? If that's your issue then offer some opposing views based on facts instead of acting like a child.

as Rugbydreamer pointed out, we beat them 30-3 just the other week, plus the 2 times last season, so where's your facts?

Turkster wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Hello, are we in last season or this season? If that's your issue then offer some opposing views based on facts instead of acting like a child.

as Rugbydreamer pointed out, we beat them 30-3 just the other week, plus the 2 times last season, so where's your facts?

You cant really count the 30 - 3 game since it was all Blues academy and the $%£O$£ coaches didnt bother playing any experience - I don't know how 2 30pt drubbing are supposed to help development.

But u also can't state that the Blues defence will waltz through the Scarlets when you can't back it up with any results or stats, from this season, last season or even the season before.

Everyone seems to say out of the 7 backs one team has 4 better players to the others 3, that hardly indicates one teams so superior to the other that they'd easily brush them aside.

wales606 wrote:

Turkster wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Hello, are we in last season or this season? If that's your issue then offer some opposing views based on facts instead of acting like a child.

as Rugbydreamer pointed out, we beat them 30-3 just the other week, plus the 2 times last season, so where's your facts?

You cant really count the 30 - 3 game since it was all Blues academy and the $%£O$£ coaches didnt bother playing any experience - I don't know how 2 30pt drubbing are supposed to help development.

and we were without our world cup players too, tbh this discussion is pointless anyway, it's people's opinion against facts from last season, just bugged me that someone can say for 100% definite that Cardiff would 'waltz' through our backline despite having nothing to back it up.

also we seem to have more strength in depth in our backline (besides SH), as in the centre we have JD2, Maule, S Williams, Lamont, Warren, who have all shown up well and scored a load of tries in the ML, and then we have Reynolds who looks really promising and our new Samoan winger who can play centre. On the wings we have North, Lamont, Stoddart, Liam Williams, Fenby Lee Williams, Reynolds our new Samoan winger. And obviously at 10 we have Priestland, Jones, Newton and J Williams (who looks really promising) and Owen Williams.

Great to see the banter on here between the Welsh Regions fans.

This is proof-positive, that the regions are at last catching on as separate and accepted entities.

One day, ye will be as bad/good as the Paddies with our incessant, inter-provincial - bickering.

Really healthy to see.

I can't wait for that time to arrive Gibson! (and for the Scarlets to overtake Munster/Leinster as the European superpowers of the Pro12!)

Priest,
Scarlets are my fav Welsh team. Love the way ye strive to play the game. The only way is up. So much talent coming through.
I see a realistic challenge for the PRO12 this season. Playoffs must be a target. Also, a strong showing in the HC would go a long way.

See ye at the Top.

Turkster wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Turkster wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Hello, are we in last season or this season? If that's your issue then offer some opposing views based on facts instead of acting like a child.

as Rugbydreamer pointed out, we beat them 30-3 just the other week, plus the 2 times last season, so where's your facts?

You cant really count the 30 - 3 game since it was all Blues academy and the $%£O$£ coaches didnt bother playing any experience - I don't know how 2 30pt drubbing are supposed to help development.

and we were without our world cup players too, tbh this discussion is pointless anyway, it's people's opinion against facts from last season, just bugged me that someone can say for 100% definite that Cardiff would 'waltz' through our backline despite having nothing to back it up.

I know, I didnt say it.

At the moment I would probably rather be a Scarlets fan than a Blues fan, especially after last season.

As for commenting about form last season...in the league -

Ospreys 60 - 17 Scarlets
Scarlets 18 - 21 Ospreys
Blues 27 - 25 Ospreys
Ospreys 21 - 21 Blues

Theres always a different perspective when form is concerned.

The Scarlets did the double of ther Blues and Dragons though Wales606, and the Blues and Dragons both beat the O's....

I think all four regions are pretty equal to be fair. That's what makes the derbys so great imo.

well said rugbydreamer - I'm tempted to go to both the Dragons and Scarlets derbies next week, not sure yet though. But they should both be good games

Yeah I've already got my ticket for the O's v Scarlets match but so tempted to go to the Dragons v Blues one as well. Just a 10min train journey away, so why not like?

Should be a great weekend of Welsh rugby, just hope the Scarlets put in a better performance then they did the last time they were at the Library.

wales606 wrote:

Turkster wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Hello, are we in last season or this season? If that's your issue then offer some opposing views based on facts instead of acting like a child.

as Rugbydreamer pointed out, we beat them 30-3 just the other week, plus the 2 times last season, so where's your facts?

You cant really count the 30 - 3 game since it was all Blues academy and the $%£O$£ coaches didnt bother playing any experience - I don't know how 2 30pt drubbing are supposed to help development.

wales606
you bring out some good points but this Morgannwg laddy is obviously a WUM, as he states FACTS with no foundation, you can more or less assume no side in the RaboDirect will ever have their "ideal" first choice 9-15 players but just thought I'd look at last yrs results between Cardiff v Scarlets and who (the backs) actually played

Blues 10 V 16 Scarlets
Czekaj 15 Evans
Halfpenny 14 Stoddart
Lualala 13 Maule
Hewitt 12 King
James 11 Lamont
Sweeney 10 Priestland
Rees 9 Knoyle
L Williams 21 M Roberts
Gav Evans 22 S Jones
Mustoe 23 S Williams

Scarlets 38 V 23 Blues
Stoddart 15 Fish
North 14 Roberts
King 13 Laulala
Williams 12 Hewitt
Lamont 11 Czekaj
Jones 10 Parks
Knoyle 9 Rees
M Roberts 21 L Williams
Priestland 22 Sweeney
L Williams 23 H Robinson

I would analyse three things from the above
1, You will rarely get a 1st choice side, but the important thing is what strength you have in depth.
2. Based on the largely available 1st choice players I cannae see any evidence that the Blues have waltses through the Scarlets in quite a while, in fact the Scarlets scored 5 tries to Cardiffs 2, so I would say if anything its the other way around.
3 The WC would have upped the skill set of all the players involved, they would be stronger fitter, with that brought inner confidence to them. And I think I am correct in saying that there were more Scarlets backs (including our Lamont) than Cardiff backs plying their trade in NZ.

Taken all this into account I would have said Morgannwg's sweeping statement is quite amusing and really shouldnt considered seriously enough to debate back.

Interesting theory about Henson being the answer for the Blues at 10. The last time I can remember Henson playing 10 was when he came on for an injured Jones against Ireland in Dublin. I seem to remember that he changes the game...unfortunately not in a good way!

Gav is a bit like Hook, hugely talented but lacking the top two inches that are needed at 10. I hope this is not another one of Hensons false dawns. The Blues have taken a huge gamble, I hope it pays off.

I thought he looked relaxed being interviewed on the TV today, seemed to have some realistic ambitions....first get into the Blues team! A big improvement from his last Scrum 5 interview!!!!!!!!

My backline choice from the Welsh Regions, based on recent form.

9 Knoyle (Williams has to win the Cardiff shirt off Rees first)
10 Priestland (Marginaly ahead of a crocked Jones)
11 Williams (marinaly ahead of Chavanga)
12 Roberts (based on the WC not last season)
13 Laulala (class)
14 North (He just gets better)
15 1/2p (But Stodart may overtake him when he recovers)

So that 3 Scarlets, 3 Blues and one Osprey.

Seagultaf wrote:My backline choice from the Welsh Regions, based on recent form.

9 Knoyle (Williams has to win the Cardiff shirt off Rees first)
10 Priestland (Marginaly ahead of a crocked Jones)
11 Williams (marinaly ahead of Chavanga)
12 Roberts (based on the WC not last season)
13 Laulala (class)
14 North (He just gets better)
15 1/2p (But Stodart may overtake him when he recovers)

So that 3 Scarlets, 3 Blues and one Osprey.

Knoyle? If we are picking on form then Webb or L.Williams

Williams wont have to fight for his place - Rees has been abysmal.

Williams has also been selected ahead of Knoyle for Wales.

Webb is on fire and a shoe in for the 6N at this rate - though he has a lot of competition

Knoyle needs to pick it up to stand a chance in the Welsh selection.

Otherwise, I agree

wales606 wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:My backline choice from the Welsh Regions, based on recent form.

9 Knoyle (Williams has to win the Cardiff shirt off Rees first)
10 Priestland (Marginaly ahead of a crocked Jones)
11 Williams (marinaly ahead of Chavanga)
12 Roberts (based on the WC not last season)
13 Laulala (class)
14 North (He just gets better)
15 1/2p (But Stodart may overtake him when he recovers)

So that 3 Scarlets, 3 Blues and one Osprey.

Knoyle? If we are picking on form then Webb or L.Williams

Williams wont have to fight for his place - Rees has been abysmal.

Williams has also been selected ahead of Knoyle for Wales.

Webb is on fire and a shoe in for the 6N at this rate - though he has a lot of competition

Knoyle needs to pick it up to stand a chance in the Welsh selection.

Otherwise, I agree

Don't know much about Webb but on the weekend he was taken apart by Chris Cusiter who along with his fellow halfback Weir had a fairly easy day against their young Ospreys equivalents in Webb/Morgan. I would say Webb (or Morgan) hasn't really proven himself against any notable opponents yet. Really was impressed with young Williams however, who confidently goes for the try line and has much better distribution that Knoyle, however IMHO I think Knoyle has the better overall game and if someone can teach him to pass to the waist not the bl00dy neck he would be a shoe-in

And not moan at the ref before getting the ball out! FHF.

He was disappointing for Wales (especially when Gats said he and Williams showed up the best in the Polish training camp), but he is a very good player and is so much more than a minature Phillips.

Still impressed with Lloyd

turkester, Dreamer and FHF () - my statement was made based on the facts that Scarlets defence is poor, tries against you back this up. The rest based on the facts Roberts, Laulala, James and possibly Cuthbert are good at gaining ground. No point in clutching onto the LV cup games, going by those results that makes you a superior team to erm, Leicester.
I also said that Scarlets would have to prove me wrong on that statement after a few games. I hope they do. Welsh rubgy needs a stronger Scarlets.

the last 3 meetings we've completely outscored the Blues backline Morgannwg, regardless of one of those being an LV game, 2 were Magners games. The facts speak for themselves there, but guess you don't want to acknowledge them.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

What makes you think the last 3 meetings will have any bearing on the next time you play Blues? When is the next fixture btw?

Because by and large the same backlines will be playing (maybe a couple of new faces like Cuthbert and Liam Williams). Going by the last 3 games, I honestly can't see how you can even think the Blues backline will 'waltz' through. Not sure when we play the Blues, could be over the new year.

I think there will be at least 3 or 4 changes to each backline, it doesn't sound like much but it is. And as pointed out above, Roberts didn't play against you. He did on the wing in the one fixture, where he is totally wasted. If in the new year then I might have a different opinion depending on both teams form.

3-4 changes? Definitely not for the Scarlets. Don't think the Blues have that many changes either.

I'm not saying the Blues have a bad backline, just baffled how you think they will "waltz" through a Scarlets one, when facts speak against it. Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Hopefully Henson in for Parks, Halfpenny at full back(positional change), Cuthbert on the wing, Lloyd Williams at scrum half, Roberts at 12. And probably more like two changes for the Scarlets then. Would like to see, depending on Stoddart's injury - Dan Evans, North, Williams, Davies, Stoddart, Priestland, Knoyle. Good backline.

Yeah that's pretty much the backline I'd like to see picked for the Scarlets for our big matches (with Lamont on the wing and Stodds coming back in for Dan Evs when fit), with the likes of Maule, Stevo, Fenby etc on the bench. Excellent backline for us.

It is a very good Scarlets backline with rugbydreamers changes, and not too different from the last 2 times we played you last season, without King of course.

I'm intrigued to see if Henson can play well at 10 and get the backs going, if not then you're going to be stuck with 2 10's who do some stuff very well and others very poorly, who don't get the backline going - behind an aging scrum. And then of course you'll have Sweeney.

Gethin Jenkins 30
Rhys Thomas 29
Tau Filise 34
Paul Tito 33
Bradley Davies 24
Andries Pretorious 26
Sam Warburton 23
Xavier Rush 34

That's our strongest pack and only 3 would you consider to be on the 'old' side in terms of playing rugby. I can see why it is thought that we have an 'aging' pack when you see Molatika starting for the blues but he's only in because AP is currently injured. The 3 'old' players are in there because we don't quite have the depth in those positions just yet but things are starting to change...

Paterson (26) showed on Saturday that he can be relied on and wouldn't be surprised to see him starting with Bradley in the near future. Then you have Sam Hobbs (23) & Scott Andrews (22) coming off the bench in the last match to replace Filise and Yapp (who is only 28) and are increasingly more involved in recent seasons, Navidi (20) outstanding at 7...we just need to find a number 8 and we have a decent crop of youngsters ready to step in.

So yeah, we don't have an 'aging' pack...it's just 3 positions in our strongest pack are 33 or over.

I say old because Rush is on the slide, so 2 is M Williams, Molatika and Filse (and Williams will prob play quite a lot this year with Warbs missing and rested for bits because of internationals).

If you look at it this way you could have
G Jenkins 30
R Thomas 29
Filse 34
Tito 33
D Jones 34
Pretorious 26 (who I like)
M Williams 34
Rush 34.

Thats a pretty old pack, and I know you have good younger players like Navidi, Patterson (not so young) Andrews and Hobbs, but I feel you rely a lot on Tito and Rush who are slowing down, and haven't a really good replacement upto scratch for Filse. 3 important positions.

To be honest I would say that purely on attacking ability of the backline I would rate them (best to worst) Scarlets, Dragons, Ospreys & Blues. I appreciate that the Blues and Ospreys do have very good attacking backlines, however they only really seem to function when their pack is working well, where as the Dragons and Scarlets backs do seem more capable of creating their own momentum as opposed to relying on the pack to provide it.

However I would rate the backlines purely on defensive ability (best to worst) Blues (unless Parks plays), Ospreys, Dragons, Scarlets

So over all I would say that there ain't too much separating them at all right now.

Good post SS - though I'm hoping to see a big improvement in defence from the Scarlets this season, with Stoddart, North and JD2 all being a lot better in the tackle, and Priestland, Knoyle and Maule all being pretty decent tacklers.

The test is going to come in the HC though.

Smirnoff - to be honest we could feild two different sets of pretty decent backs this season

Defensive

Knoyle
Jones
Lamont
J Davies
Maule
North
Stoddart (when fit)

Attacking

G Davies
Priestland
Fenby
Warren
S Williams
Li. Williams
Evans

I've got to say both look frightening going foward. I can't believe that we unearth JD2 and S Williams as class centres that get whisked away to the WC and then along comes Warren scoring for fun to repalce them.

Smirnoff - the bit I can't get my head around is that we also have Reynolds (injured?) and Maule there too. It seems odd that we were worrying about who would come in at centre when King left as it was a real area of weakness in the back line

Yeah I know, to be honest when I heard King going I hadn't heard of Warren and didn't know how good Reynolds was going to be - but I was very impressed with Maule last season and hope he manages to get game time.

It's a crazy amount of talent in the backs and just think we could have has Steven Shingler as well which would have been amazing.

I can't believe that we've found this Murphy and Gilbert to challenge the back row fowards as well.

It really is crazy the rate we are churning out new players.

Still though, it's everywhere but in the 2nd row!

Warren has been a huge suprise for me, but a very pleasent one. Hadn't heard much about him at Llandovery, but what's great is that all these young players that are being given an opportunity are really grasping it with both hands. And all it's going to do is generate competition for places which is brilliant for us going forward.

Yup it is really good - I can't wait to see the level of competition this season and next - it's going to be intense.

It is a shame that we haven't got a Downes or a youngster of that level at lock. But at least we have Timani now to give us depth until we do find a good youngster.

The Scarlets in my opinion, their back line is frightening, I cant wait for the derby next week.

Yup it's going to be a good one - a very tough game as always, but with a fully fit pack I don't expect the mauling we had last season. Bring it on!

Also think the Dragons/Blues derby will be another close on as well.

llandovery? isint that a college?

There is Llandovery College yes, but it's also a pretty big town and Llandovery is one of the 3 feeder clubs for the Scarlets along with Carmarthen Quins and Llanelli

Heard Aled Thomas is going to the C Quinns once our internationals come back.

Llandovery has quite a good record of producing young rugby players doesn't it? Doesn't the college have a scolarship programme?

Aye it does Smirnoff, I know the likes of AWJ, Andy Powell etc for Wales either went there or had a scolorship there (I'm sure you can guess which ones took which option )

Morgannwg wrote:What makes you think the last 3 meetings will have any bearing on the next time you play Blues? When is the next fixture btw?

Nothing to do with broken records Morgannwg, just asking you to prove your sweeping statement............... which of course you can't

One minute you spouting past games (i.e. Scarlets poor defence based on last seasons games) to base your argument, and when you are presented with the facts you then spout whats the past games got to do with the next game!!!


Seems you are a tad biased here.

I am sure McBryde and Garin Jenkins have shored up the defence of the last seasons revolving doors.

The next game I think are your derbies....... thats THIS WEEKEND (good grief didn't you know that!)

Friday, 4 November 2011
RaboDirect PRO12
Newport-Gwent D'gons v Cardiff Blues, 19:05

Saturday, 5 November 2011
RaboDirect PRO12
Ospreys v Scarlets, 18:30

Should give you an indication of where you guys are in the bigger picture