Ulster v Aironi HC Rnd3 Friday 09 December 2011 KO 19.30pm

First topic message reminder :

Ulster have included new signing Stefan Terblanche in their matchday squad ahead of Friday's Heineken Cup round 3 fixture against Aironi at Ravenhill (kick off 7.30pm).

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The South African fullback arrived in Belfast over the weekend and is in contention to play some part against the Italians. The 36 year old has been drafted in on a short term deal as cover for Jared Payne who has been ruled out for the remainder of the season.
Declan Fitzpatrick is again ruled out with a neck injury suffered in the Glasgow game two weeks ago. Ruan Pienaar came through his 20 minute cameo against Scarlets on Friday unscathed and is back in contention for a starting place.

Paddy McAllister gets a start at loosehead in place of Tom Court with Court on the bench.

The Ulstermen shared a pool with Aironi in last season’s tournament and picked up 10 points from the two games, scoring ten tries in the process.

Ulster Match Day Squad to face Aironi, Friday 9th December, Ravenhill (kick-off 7.30pm)
(15-9): A D'Arcy; A Trimble, D Cave, N Spence, C Gilroy; I Humphreys, R Pienaar;
(1-8): P McAllister, R Best, J Afoa, J Muller (capt), D Tuohy, S Ferris, C Henry, P Wannenburg;
Replacements (16-23): A Kyriacou, T Court, A Macklin, L Stevenson, R Diack, P Marshall, P Jackson, S Terblanche
This season, Ulster currently sit in third place after two rounds, two points behind Clermont Auvergne and four behind leaders Leicester. Friday’s opponents Aironi are yet to register a point in this year’s competition.

We have a paper-thin squad, not only in terms of concrete numbers but also experience and leadership. We thought we would have Muller and Payne earlier in the season to provide a bit of direction, and help the youngsters when games started to turn against us. Instead, Muller got called up by the Boks and Pyane lasted two-and-a-half games.

I didn't think we'd achieve much this season. Instead, we need to get some youngsters a bit of experience, so that they can be relied on when necessary, or start to put their hands up.

Don Alfonso wrote:We have a paper-thin squad, not only in terms of concrete numbers but also experience and leadership.

Interestingly though, we all argue about players not getting gametime and claim they will jump ship if they arn't used. So where do you get quality squad players if they supposedly all want to leave if 1stXV isnt an option. I dont want backup players who are useless. I want the likes of faloon and darcy's talent in backup.

I don't buy that Don I think we have an excellent squad.

Before the start of the season I'd have whispered under my breathe that we had a squad not far of the level of Munsters.

Apart from the 10 position, Hooker and maybe the backrow I think we are pretty strong across the board. Even there we maybe haven't utilised all our resources enough. The backline in particular is very competitive.

Players like Faloon, Diack, Whitten, Luke Marshall, Barker etc have all hardly featured yet. I'm not convinced we are getting the best out of the players we have, either in terms of the 1st XV or the wider squad.

Outside of a bunch of players - Payne, Pienaer, Best, Ferris, Trimble, Wallace, Muller we lack true leaders

The inability of those below the above is a real problem.

Trust me when I say that after we lost to Treviso confidence was on the floor and our players we virtually in panic mode as to what to do next.

It did not stabalize till the above players returned.

We do not get enough, in terms of initiative from the likes of Kyriacou, Court, Tuohy, Wannenberg, Henry, Diack, Humphries, Danielli - givien the level of experience these guys need to step up to the plate.

geoff998rugby wrote:Trust me when I say that after we lost to Treviso confidence was on the floor and our players we virtually in panic mode as to what to do next.

I do trust you Geoff.....my confidence was on the floor after the Treviso loss!

Seriously though I think the younger players though need to learn to stand on their own two feet. I think there is a danger that too many guys just look to Muller, Pienaar etc. for leadership and direction.

I thought Spence, Cave and Henry really stood out in that bad spell. Too many players just dropped their heads but Spence and Henry in particular always showed pride in the shirt and showed a great attitude.

I'd like to see some leaders emerge rather than just buying them in and sometimes the best way to learn is the hard way.

I’ve been unable to make up my mind about the approach Ulster takes to fielding weakened teams. I don’t know if it comes from McL or the good Doctor, but we have sent our B-teams to play games where we don’t think we could get a win with our first team – away to Munster or Leinster.

On one hand, I think this kind of pragmatism is part of what enabled us to do so well last season. We had our game-time-limited Irish players available to play for us in other tough games, where we had a chance, because we were resting them for those big inter-pros. But it meant that the significant game-time Marshall, T.J. Anderson got was being humiliated (after a good start, in all fairness) by Munster etc.

We’ll know we have a good enough squad (as opposed to team) when we are in a position to field weakened teams because we are confident they can win, rather than because we are concentrating our efforts on other games.

When we are saying to Gaston, Stevenson, Diack, Macklin, Marshall – “you have been picked in the first XV, and we expect you to go out and win” rather than “go out and give it a lash”, then our squad will be strong enough.

In my colossally important opinion.

We need more self belief.

I recall a home game in recent years where Neil Doak as good as said we couldn't win before the match.

To be honest I was disgusted

That just about says all we need to about Neil Doak. Sooner he is grazing new pastures the better.

I'd like to imagine a team involving 1F, Pienaar, Best, Muller, Payne, Wallace and Afoa would tell Neil Doak where to store that opinion.

Rodders, I stand by my opinion - I think our youngsters are talented but mentally fragile, and that's why we don't have much depth. There's an interesting question being asked on UAFC about who will be improve more over the season - Jackson or McKinney, who is getting Ravens games and playing constantly. I don't know the answer, but it's a thought-provoking question.

Anyway, the time is nearly upon us to SUFTUM!!!!!!

It's gonna be a cold one!

Ferris 3rd try in 2 games, anyone got a stream? Struggling to find one.

Artful!

It's on the Beeb website!

3 tries so far!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/8437990.stm

Gotta get the TBP now, and we should be pushing on for some more to get a bit of confidence back on board too. By the sounds of it Ferris is in top form once again

Terblanche on, hope he does something, if he works out as well as Will Chambers for Munster I'd be happy enough, baring in mind its 3 month contracts we're talking about.

I hope all those changes don't disrupt us too much!

Paul Marshall!!!!!!

Bonus point!!!!

Thank god for that. I was panicking. BBC are a bit slow in updating their website.

Paddy Jackson gets his first HEC try!

Ulsterexile wrote:Thank god for that. I was panicking. BBC are a bit slow in updating their website.

Very slow it seems!

Aironi get a try.

31 v 10 with about 1 min to go.

they are feckin useless to be honest when it comes to updating any rugby scores, but who cares we have the TBP and sounds like a half decent performance too

Full time.

The beeb are indeed terrible with the updates.

Although it would seen that some games are updated more quickly than others.

ie. Games involving English teams are updated quickly.

They have final score down as 31-3

Oh deary me.

They also are way behind with the Blues v Edinburgh score but seem to have the Quins on spot on, strange that!

See! They just updated the score to reflect the try by Toulouse but STILL have it as 15 v 3 in Cardiff!!!!!

Try bonus is what we wanted. Try bonus is what we got. Not a vintage Ulster performance but I'm more than happy we've escaped what could have been a banana skin. More of the same next week please lads.


Oh and by the way, jaysus it was cold at the hill tonight.

Very happy with that score, didn't get to see the match so I don't know how we performed, but the result is what we needed.

If there was any doubt our attack coach Neil Doak isn't pulling his weight it was dispelled tonight, but a few moments of individual inspiration and unrelenting pressure finally did the job for us tonight. We just ground them down, almost total territorial dominance and the vast majority of possession, but I wish he had better ideas than passing the ball to a static player and hope they do something. Although, to be fair, when it was Ferris this actually worked

Highlights for me where seeing Paddy McAllister do very well at scrum time and Paddy Jackson getting a fine try playing out of position at 12 (Spence came off injured and he was our only remaining back on the bench). Those two will have learned a massive amount from this.

Not a great performance but 5 points so

1. McAllister- Very good showing. Scrum totally dominated with him and afoa and good in defence.
2. Best- Very good performance. Not much more to be said. Usual for him.
3. Afoa- I like the cut of his jib. Loves the carries and good ball in hand. Dominant at scrum
4. Muller- Probably outshone by Tuohy (very rare for me to say that) but massively solid
5. Tuohy- Very good. Some very decent carries if not glamorous but tackled/rucked really well
6. Ferris- Another game, another try. awesome power. Not MOTM for me but still the most ludicrously gifted player on show.
7. Henry- Im liking him at 7. Tackles like a demon and always hungry for work. good showing.
8.Wannenburg- Much like Henry i thought he worked his ass off all night. Decent showing
9. Pienaar- definitely rusty but such a great pass and a great boot.
10. Humph- Didnt get much better for me. Missed kicks, nothing grubbers. Looks really low.
11. Gilroy- Again looks like he is inhibited. A more rounded player than last season but without that spark in attack. Unlucky not to score
12. Spence- A beast defensively but he is wasted in the tight channels. A couple of good runs further wide though. Again decent for me.
13. Cave- Much like Spence to be honest. Seems to always do the right thing and great defensively. Not impressive going forward
14. Trimble- Mildly disappointing. Kicks the ball away too much when he is such a threat. Good try
15. D'arcy- My MOTM. Some great breaks when Ulster were looking idiotic in attack. Solid at the back and involved in most scores.

16. Kyriacou- Didnt notice but we lost 1 throw at least i thought
17. Court- Ok but not as strong as Paddy mac. propping with Macklin mostly mind you
18. Macklin- Stayed on the pitch. Thats an improvement
19. Stevenson- Carried on Tuohys good work
20. Diack- Looked lively imo and some nice hands at times. More of the same Robbie
21. Marshall- Lovely try and i do believe the Marshall/Pienaar axis is moving closer. Not next week mind you
22. Jackson- Lovely try and showed what having someone creative at 12 offers. (not championing him for this position) hopefully will get starts soon
23. Terblanche- Other than D'arcy the only player to run from depth onto the ball. Looks like he has forgotten more than some of our guys know.

Coaches

Only criticism is the continued impotence of our backline to get anything going. Doak must go if things dont massively improve.

Standulstermen wrote:Not a great performance but 5 points so

1. McAllister- Very good showing. Scrum totally dominated with him and afoa and good in defence.
2. Best- Very good performance. Not much more to be said. Usual for him.
3. Afoa- I like the cut of his jib. Loves the carries and good ball in hand. Dominant at scrum
4. Muller- Probably outshone by Tuohy (very rare for me to say that) but massively solid
5. Tuohy- Very good. Some very decent carries if not glamorous but tackled/rucked really well
6. Ferris- Another game, another try. awesome power. Not MOTM for me but still the most ludicrously gifted player on show.
7. Henry- Im liking him at 7. Tackles like a demon and always hungry for work. good showing.
8.Wannenburg- Much like Henry i thought he worked his ass off all night. Decent showing
9. Pienaar- definitely rusty but such a great pass and a great boot.
10. Humph- Didnt get much better for me. Missed kicks, nothing grubbers. Looks really low.
11. Gilroy- Again looks like he is inhibited. A more rounded player than last season but without that spark in attack. Unlucky not to score
12. Spence- A beast defensively but he is wasted in the tight channels. A couple of good runs further wide though. Again decent for me.
13. Cave- Much like Spence to be honest. Seems to always do the right thing and great defensively. Not impressive going forward
14. Trimble- Mildly disappointing. Kicks the ball away too much when he is such a threat. Good try
15. D'arcy- My MOTM. Some great breaks when Ulster were looking idiotic in attack. Solid at the back and involved in most scores.

16. Kyriacou- Didnt notice but we lost 1 throw at least i thought
17. Court- Ok but not as strong as Paddy mac. propping with Macklin mostly mind you
18. Macklin- Stayed on the pitch. Thats an improvement
19. Stevenson- Carried on Tuohys good work
20. Diack- Looked lively imo and some nice hands at times. More of the same Robbie
21. Marshall- Lovely try and i do believe the Marshall/Pienaar axis is moving closer. Not next week mind you
22. Jackson- Lovely try and showed what having someone creative at 12 offers. (not championing him for this position) hopefully will get starts soon
23. Terblanche- Other than D'arcy the only player to run from depth onto the ball. Looks like he has forgotten more than some of our guys know.

Coaches

Only criticism is the continued impotence of our backline to get anything going. Doak must go if things dont massively improve.

I'm surprised he was brought on at 12, delighted that he went well, but he is probably to small for 12 long term.

Is there anywhere I can watch this game, couldn't find a link anywhere last night and the French channels were showing the Toulouse game.

TG4 might have highlights of it tonight.

Thomond wrote:TG4 might have highlights of it tonight.

I'm in France and the Irish proxy I use seems to fail be when I try to watch the rte or tg4 players.

Val, the reason he was on is that Spence had to go off injured after we'd already used our other replacements- he was our only remaining back on the bench.

Yes, he is a bit small for 12 but given the choice between him and Adam Macklin to come on in that position I think the coaches made the right call

Notch wrote:Val, the reason he was on is that Spence had to go off injured after we'd already used our other replacements- he was our only remaining back on the bench.

Yes, he is a bit small for 12 but given the choice between him and Adam Macklin to come on in that position I think the coaches made the right call

Yeah that seems fair enough. I'd love to seem him getting more gametime this year but I also really want to see him play in the u20 six nations and that looks the time when he is most likely to play for Ulster.

I think he'll learn more if he's starting for Ulster, but if he's on the bench he could be released.

valjester,

The game was not televised. There will be no highlights available.

Reading the UAFC thery are all questioning whether he could play 12 because he can pass. Has everyone forgotten luke Marshall????

Yes. Unfortunately.

I don't know what will happen next week; anyone know anything about Spence? Went off clutching his ribs. I think our attack would really look so much sharper if he was our 13.

Notch wrote:Yes. Unfortunately.

I don't know what will happen next week; anyone know anything about Spence? Went off clutching his ribs. I think our attack would really look so much sharper if he was our 13.

Totally agree. What would you do with Cave though?

If that is the case notch it shows how simple the Ulster rugby public are. We still have ones arguing for Marshall over Pienaar FFS!!!!!

Rory

I think Cave has been indifferent enough in the last two games for Spence to claim the shirt for a game but it wont happen. Spence/Cave will be the partnership if fit and otherwise Whitten/Cave. Thing is we need a second distributor.Paddy was (imo) excellent against Clermont. Marshall is potentially our next Ferris as regards a global star. We need them both in squads imo.

Did we use our injury joker card to swap Terblanche into the HEC squad for Payne?

If we didnt then we would be in trouble MrsP. Terblanche replaced Peter Nelson in the squad who incidentally scored a belter for the Ravens yesterday in their 17-16 win over Pontypridd/pool (cant remember which).

that young lad looks like he has bags of talent.

Didn't manage to see this one but its job done I suppose so can't complain. Where there any standout performances?

What do people think of our qualification chances now? Can we get 5 points next week too?

What is the best result for Ulster today? A Clermont win with no bonus or a Tigers away win? It looks like Clermont could finish on 20 points if they win today unless we can beat them?

Stand,

I'm not sure you're correct there.

Surely we brought Terblanche in for Payne I just wasn't sure of the timing, ie. was it before the squad was submitted or after. Nelson is still in the HEC squad.

I was just wondering if we still had our injury joker card to play since we could be short of 12s if Spence is significantly injured.

Rodders,

I'm relying on Jim Neilly and Mr and MasterP but it sounded like Afoa and Darcy both deserved honourable mentions in the MOTM list. Paddy Mac also held up very well and Gilroy was looking more of an attacking threat.

Small Parcel carried on his good form when he came on and Jackson slotted into 12 well.

Stands run down is pretty close to the reports I got!

And, of course, Fez!

No Mrs P

Payne i dont think was ever registered as we knew the extent of his injury prior to naming the squad. Terblanche was changed for nelson and Afoa was changed fro Annett someone said as well.

The list on the erc website has been updated with the additions, those that they came in for havent been taken off.

Rodders

Im going to do a feature called Spence-watch for our ongoing debate!
He was an absolute beast defensively. he must have won turnovers on at least 3 occasions but limited in attack. we are trying to get him involved wider which is good but the thing that i remember is him overunning a support run from D'arcy and missing the catch. It was a solid enough performance though and he probably at least on a par with cave.

From the Ulster line-up do any of you think McCallister, Best, Henry, Humphreys, Gilroy, Spence, Cave, Trimble and D'Arcy will make the Ireland 6 Nations squad?

Best and Trimble are definitely in, Best a definite starter as well. Gilroy, McAllister and Spence in the not to distant future.

But with Gordon D'arcy, BOD and maybe Earls out then they could get an opportunity? Shouldn't Deccie be building for the next world cup? That could mean disregarding ROG and having Humphreys as Sextons understudy too.

Spence will get wolfhounds as will gilroy probably. Best will start and Trimble will be in the squad. McAllister will probably be wolfhounds too if he keeps performing. Tom Court has been very good since the world cup too and we have Ross and Healy as well at prop