Ulster v Aironi HC Rnd3 Friday 09 December 2011 KO 19.30pm

First topic message reminder :

Ulster have included new signing Stefan Terblanche in their matchday squad ahead of Friday's Heineken Cup round 3 fixture against Aironi at Ravenhill (kick off 7.30pm).

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The South African fullback arrived in Belfast over the weekend and is in contention to play some part against the Italians. The 36 year old has been drafted in on a short term deal as cover for Jared Payne who has been ruled out for the remainder of the season.
Declan Fitzpatrick is again ruled out with a neck injury suffered in the Glasgow game two weeks ago. Ruan Pienaar came through his 20 minute cameo against Scarlets on Friday unscathed and is back in contention for a starting place.

Paddy McAllister gets a start at loosehead in place of Tom Court with Court on the bench.

The Ulstermen shared a pool with Aironi in last season’s tournament and picked up 10 points from the two games, scoring ten tries in the process.

Ulster Match Day Squad to face Aironi, Friday 9th December, Ravenhill (kick-off 7.30pm)
(15-9): A D'Arcy; A Trimble, D Cave, N Spence, C Gilroy; I Humphreys, R Pienaar;
(1-8): P McAllister, R Best, J Afoa, J Muller (capt), D Tuohy, S Ferris, C Henry, P Wannenburg;
Replacements (16-23): A Kyriacou, T Court, A Macklin, L Stevenson, R Diack, P Marshall, P Jackson, S Terblanche
This season, Ulster currently sit in third place after two rounds, two points behind Clermont Auvergne and four behind leaders Leicester. Friday’s opponents Aironi are yet to register a point in this year’s competition.

We were certaintly looking when Boss left - he just didn't want to leave Munster at the time but did seem open to the idea.
What I mean by that is he didn't come back with a flat no like we got from the lads in Dublin.

For next year I suspect that very serious consideration is being given to our options, as we speak, with as yet no firm decisions - announcements in the New Year is my prediction.

Remember that just about all, if not all, of the key Irish players are already signed for next year so almost total focus will be on these 2 NIQ contracts and which Academy players to promote to Full contracts

roddersm wrote:Geoff I'm not a prop but to me scrummaging is scrummaging, the backline and particular back 3 have to play as a unit. There's no way Terblanche can possibly slot into our backline as cohesively as D'arcy just of the plane. He won't know the back moves or be familiar with the players around him.

He might be a great communicator but what is he going to communicate if he doesn't know our patterns of play and tactics?

I think the Front row have just as many plays, like breaking off and 2/3 players forming a pod, to recieve the ball and crash forward together while a new pod is formed to left or right, knowing, who your setting the pod up with and what side it'll be passed to etc varies with teams as much as backline plays. Scrummaging has to be done as a unit, and takes time to gel. I'd say it's harder for a prop to come in staight of a plane as a fullback.

However whoever they play against will know that the person straight of the plane will just be using standard plays, that every team uses, as they won't know any special ones yet. Makes it easier on the oppisation to judge what a player will do.

Interesting Geoff. I certainly don't want to see Pienaar leave but there's not many experienced IQ's floating around who could make an impact for us and Stringer is one.

He'd be a good player for both Marshall and IHumph to work with and if Pienaar was prepared to play 10 then perhaps we could have our cake and eat it too?

You guys will be in a "Crisis" if you fail to cuff this lot. Punt the ball at their full back a lot and you''ll win this one. He was rubbish against Edinburgh.

Pienaar is a must sign. I dont care if we have to play a backrow of Faloon, Henry and McComish next season, he is a must sign and as a scrum half.

I keep saying it but the future of Ulster rugby and especially the backs will revolve around Jackson and Marshall. They will need experience in the backline to help them come through. Doesnt get much better than Pienaar at 9, Payne at 15.

Agree re plays in the front row being as important as the back three.

For the record I played winger at a good standard and hooker at a social standard so I have been in both situations.

Many many moons ago though....As a winger I used to throw the ball in - how many remember that !

Me Geoff.

I was a winger in that era as well. Never had to step off the plane on to the pitch but many Saturdays literally jumped out of the car and on to the pitch.

Can't remember practicing many "plays" either. Up the jumper stuff mostly and throwing the ball in was the only thing I got to do on many occasions.

Stringer is not the answer. Experienced yes, but not playing as well as Marshall. There’s a reason he’s on loan. He’s not the player he was two or three years ago.

Just read someone mentioning our old friend Nagusa on another thread. This took me to youtube to do a bit of reminiscing. Seriously there were some unreal tries a few seasons ago. Cant help but think we've lost our ability to cleanly break the line.
Rather worrying!

Last season we saw the glimpses of Spence and Gilroy doing that. It is this season that our backs just seem completely devoid of any ideas or creativity.

One thing Matt Williams was very good at was having his teams attack off first phase. Some of the set plays were excellent. when we didnt get the try after the initial break though and went through phases we looked less good.

Team announced. Big call at loosehead. Pienaar starts as predicted by most. Terblanche in the squad as also predicted by most.

Ulster Match Day Squad to face Aironi, Friday 9th December, Ravenhill (kick-off 7.30pm)
(15-9): A D'Arcy; A Trimble, D Cave, N Spence, C Gilroy; I Humphreys, R Pienaar;
(1-8): P McAllister, R Best, J Afoa, J Muller (capt), D Tuohy, S Ferris, C Henry, P Wannenburg;
Replacements (16-23): A Kyriacou, T Court, A Macklin, L Stevenson, R Diack, P Marshall, P Jackson, S Terblanche

SUFTUM

Teams up - surprise at 1 and maybe 15

McAllister, Best, Afoa, Muller, Tuohy, Ferris, Wannenberg, Henry, Pienaer, Humphreys, Gilroy, Spence, Cave, Trimblw, D'aRcy


Subs: Court, Kyriacou, Macklin, Stevenson, Diack, Marshall, Jackson, Tererblanche

Good team, can't complain. Glad D'arcy gets the nod but looking forward to seeing Terblanche.

Is court injured? He's been going well lately.

we need 5 points from this one for sure!

Faloon misses out again.. sigh

Faloon seems to be well out of favour now after the Glasgow game (ironically i thought he was our best backrow if not best forward in that game).

Fair play to McL, he is giving D'arcy a chance which given the persistance with Humphreys shows some consistency of selection.

Good to see Paddy Mac getting a start and might this have something to do with not having two rookies in at the end and severely weakening the scrum? Tom Court to come on is very good.

Here's hoping we get 5 points

Not injured Rodders: -

"It was important for Paddy McAllister's development to start in a match at this level. And it means we have the option to bring a quality player like Tom on if we need to."

I'm delighted to see it. Maybe showing this wee bit of faith will allow him to kick on.

Standulstermen wrote:Faloon seems to be well out of favour now after the Glasgow game (ironically i thought he was our best backrow if not best forward in that game).

Fair play to McL, he is giving D'arcy a chance which given the persistance with Humphreys shows some consistency of selection.

Good to see Paddy Mac getting a start and might this have something to do with not having two rookies in at the end and severely weakening the scrum? Tom Court to come on is very good.

Here's hoping we get 5 points

Totally agree.

Stand I wouldn't say Faloon is "well out of favour" but Diack does give more cover across the back row.

Does he really Rava? Diack (to my mind) covers one position (he is not a 6) as does Faloon. Only difference is all three of our backrowers on the pitch can play 8 or 6.

Just noticed the paragraph you quoted regarding the Mcallister selection.

McL

But we don't need a utility option to give more cover across the backrow. We have Henry who can play 6, 7 or 8. Wannenburg and Ferris can cover both 6 and 8. Faloon is the only actual 7. If Wannenburg or Ferris got injured (touch wood), then Henry would just shift to one of those positions while Faloon can come on at 7.

Doesn't matter now anyway. Faloon is very unlucky this season for sure.

Rava wrote:Not injured Rodders: -

"It was important for Paddy McAllister's development to start in a match at this level. And it means we have the option to bring a quality player like Tom on if we need to."

I'm delighted to see it. Maybe showing this wee bit of faith will allow him to kick on.

OK well thats good. I'm happy with that, thats a positive move.

One thing i would certainly say Rory is that there must be more to Faloons continued omission than meets the eye.

Delighted for PaddyMac. I remember him being pretty destructive around the pitch last season – but with his performances limited to ten minute cameos at the end of games ,with Adam Macklin, when McLaugh shouts “all change!”, we haven’t seen it so much recently. Just knock-ons while he tries to get his head into the game.

Also disappointed about Faloon. I thought the talk earlier in the week about him being much more of a link man was bang on. Helpful against Aironi. Is Bergomasco starting?

Remind me, why did we sign Callum Black?

Anyway, roll on Friday and the terrace and the crack.

SUFTUM!

Don

I dont think Bergamasco is in the Aironi HEC squad.
Black is a LH as i recall and he would have seen gametime but for the fact that he was injured during our prop crisis.

Now we have our first two LH's fit there is no room. I would expect to see him feature at some point against Leinster though

Also no Danielli in the squad. Firmly down the pecking order now it seems

After being initially selected 4 times in a row at full back.. strange coaching.

Or they have learnt from it Rory and he is no longer considered first choice

I've no sympathy for Danielli, he had 3 or 4 starts and was rubbish each time.

He's been a great servent to Ulster rugby but he doesn't have the same cutting edge in attack he once did and isn't great in defence. I'd sooner give gametime to the likes of Gaston or Whitten.

They learnt he isn't a fullback, which most knew before he even had one game never mind 4. Then he is totally dropped for not performing in a position he is not accustomed to playing. Do you not agree that that is pretty strange coaching? I am not even suggesting Danielli should start but I'm sure he is not happy.

It is clear though that they felt D'arcy was a liability (incorrectly i think) and so wanted to see if SD was a decent option. For me they should have known but at least they have learnt. What is now crystal clear is that Gilroy is our 1st choice which is massively positive.

The glasgow game Danielli was on the wing and was probably his worst performance.

I don't think there is any doubt that Gilroy is ahead of Danielli nor is there any surprise that he isn't in the matchday squad. Doesn't mean he is finished or gone very far down the pecking order. The guy is still an International winger FFS. He will still get some time on the wing over the next few months and will be crucial with his experience during the 6N should he fail to be selected again for Scotland.
Jeez I wouldn't want to be working for some of you guys and have a poor day at the office

Hmm.. I am a pretty pessimistic fan it has to be said Sorry Ulster!

Rava wrote:Jeez I wouldn't want to be working for some of you guys and have a poor day at the office

Well provided every day wasn't a poor day then there wouldn't be a problem

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Hmm.. I am a pretty pessimistic fan it has to be said Sorry Ulster!

Rory, wait until you have as many years watching them as I have. I was brought up on optimism heavily laced with fortitude. Expectations are so much higher these days it's easy to forget we are still in a growth period. I always felt that we punched above our weight last season and it would be a difficult one to follow. I think we need to be patient over the next couple of seasons and hopefully we will see the fruits of IHumph/McGlock's labours.

Rava just because we're in a growth period doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to pass the ball or run in a straight line........I mean I'm not expecting us to win the HEC this season but it would be nice if we played with a bit more intelligence and skill than an AIB division 3 side.

I think you are right, and I also think Ulster have a really good team though. We have some world class players, some very solid club players, and some potential internationals for the future. We have a 1st XV that has the potential to challenge any team in the HEC, and I genuinely believe that and hope that in the next few years this becomes reality.

Court - Best - Afoa
Muller - Tuohy
Ferris - Henry - Faloon
Pienaar/Marshall - Humphreys/Pienaar
Wallace - Spence/Cave
Gilroy - D'Arcy - Trimble

I think Ulster are very lucky to have the talent they have right now. I cannot remember a more talented team. We just need to be more clinical, more consistent, and have a solid platform from the specialist positions (2, 8, 9, 10 and 15). If Humphreys does not improve, we should look to signing a new 10 or else playing Pienaar there.

Ulster have a brilliant squad on paper, which makes our form this season all the more frustrating.

I haven't seen that 1st XV picked yet though Rodders. We have been playing people out of position, had people drop off the radar completely or just a lack of good form. We also seem to be a team of brilliant individuals, but terrible mechanics as a team. And to me, that comes down to the coaching.

Rava

I hear what you are saying and depending on how depleted we are with 6N call ups (i dont think Danielli will be one) i agree his experience could be important. That being said i would be more inclined to start Gaston over him in a back three.

Terblanche
D'arcy
Gilroy
Spence
Nelson
Gaston

are the options in our back three that will more than likely not get the 6N call up. If however we are able to field Pienaar, Humph and Wallace in the inside backs i would go for youth over Danielli. I too appreciate the service he has given Ulster but the pro game has no place for sentiment (sadly).

Rava wrote: Expectations are so much higher these days it's easy to forget we are still in a growth period. I always felt that we punched above our weight last season and it would be a difficult one to follow. I think we need to be patient over the next couple of seasons and hopefully we will see the fruits of IHumph/McGlock's labours.

+1

(as the cool kids all write.)

Standulstermen wrote: i would go for youth over Danielli. I too appreciate the service he has given Ulster but the pro game has no place for sentiment (sadly).

+ 1

Danielli may well still have a big role to play for Ulster but he needs to buck up his ideas because he's been living off his reputation since the RWC (where he actually did well).

Forecast not great - Ulster little chance of a TBP?

Ah now Aukster a wee bit of sleet and snow is no reason not to score 4 tries .....

We'll have to really take Aironi on up front and grind them down I think. If we can do that eventually the space will come and we'll put our chances away, something we haven't been very good at this season.....

Raging I'm not coming up to this ...anyone know if there is still tickets?

About 4 years ago when people asked me, how are Ulster doing I'd say that we're building a good team up, that will be getting throphies in about 4 years time, and they should get on the bandwagon now. 3 years ago said 3 years time etc, I've always said that we are building toward this year. This is the year I expected us to have built a really good team that could challange the best in Europe.

Ok I forgot all those years ago that this would be a WC year, and we would lose players, and struggle a bit. I'm willing to put the Ulster will be a major force back a year.
This year I think can be another building year, but next season I'm fully Expecting Ulster to deliver something.
Every year can't be a building year, and some year will have to be the year to start expecting things.

Ferris doesn't have too many seasons left, to be building toward something. Muller and Wallace are at their peaks and in 2 seasons will be in decline. Best, Court and IHumph won't be to far behind. Trimble will be at his peak, and the younger players should all have gained enough experience, to be relied upon.
I feel that if over the next two seasons we don't win anything, we'll be entering another rebuilding phase, and I'll be saying again. They'll be great in 3 years, but I really want to answer the question ' how are Ulster doing?' with the answer we're great now, one of the best teams in Europe.

Kingshu that is actually pretty close to the perception I have heard from within the club.

Last year and this were always seen as two years rebuilding from the mess we were in , alongside a realisation that the youngster would not be ready yet.

They wont say officially but the comparitive success last year took everyone a little by surprise.

2012-13 was always seen as the season when we should step up a level

I agree Kingshu, we've had so many false dawns were we looked on the verge of something good only to take one step forward and two back. I think that is why people (including myself) start to panic when we hit a bad patch.

In 2006 we had a really good side under McCall and then it fell apart. Then Williams came in and it looked to be the start of a new era, blooding youngsters and developing an expansive style and then that came to nothing.

Last season we spent big, brought through some exciting youngsters and managed to get a bit of luck and grind out results, despite not always playing great. This season I really hoped for consolidation of being a force in the Rabo and Europe and an improvement in our style of play.

However we seemed to have gone backwards again with the same sort of error strewn displays and poor execution that have haunted us in the past. Talk of players leaving and others coming in, inconsistant selection and poor tactics.

I'm still positive that we can still have a good season if we get a few results next month but it does cross your mind with each poor display that last season was a bit of a fluke rather than the start of an upward trend.

Stand,

MAURO BERGAMASCO has been added to the HEC squad in place of Nick Williams.

It doesn't look like he is playing tonight though.

Dissappointingly I find myself agreeing with Rodders last paragraph. We will win comfortably tonight though. She'll be a cold one methinks.