Where in the table will Wales finish?

First topic message reminder :

welshrugbypics.co.uk/events/rbs-six-nations-launch-250112/CDF_250112_RBS_Six_Nations_Launch_15.JPG

That would be a nice picture!

[quote="Cymroglan"]People need to stop using the HC as a yardstick on how well a International side will perform.
Different quad different coaches different mindset and all that.[/quote

just cause ireland got 3 teams in qf doesnt mean there gonna have good six nations cause irish teams and french teams put alot into hc i think wales england scotland are going to be fresher

New coaches for England and France mean they are the teams to watch, although I find it hard to believe that anybody in the RFU thought it was a good move to announce before the competition that they were looking for a new, new coach.

I've gone with my heart and said 2nd think we will lose out ot France.

From a neutral point of view I am really looking forward to see how France go, I reckon St Andre will have them firing and they are my tip for the Slam.

Where in the table?

Probably the drawer with a spoon.


Ps. Seriously Wales need a massive performance first up against Ireland or it will be doom & gloom. But the WC showed they are capable of that.
So clearly I am sat on the fence.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Where in the table?

Probably the drawer with a spoon.


Ps. Seriously Wales need a massive performance first up against Ireland or it will be doom & gloom. But the WC showed they are capable of that.
So clearly I am sat on the fence.

Trev,

It will be doom and gloom from a supporters point of view always is. The players however are hopefully more level headed and will look to take positives out of a defeat (if it is one).

For one thing it depends which Wales turn up. If it's the same as in NZ then I'll be hoping for a top two finish, with 3rd also acceptable. If it's the same Wales as 2009 through to 2011 then it'll be anywhere bottom half, we're capable of scouring any depth on a bad day.

Hoping to bloody hell (apologies if that's too obscene, mods) that we've finally dug up a consistently positive mindset!!

I think it speaks volumes of how far we have come when noone has mentioned the loss of Alun Wyn and Luke Charteris.We took those in our strde.Losing Gethin,Rhys and Dan is getting a bit silly now!

Will people stop bigging up Scotland that's not how it works. If you do that we're going to get mauled.

KickAndChase wrote:Will people stop bigging up Scotland that's not how it works. If you do that we're going to get mauled.

Uh yeah, haven't you heard that's been the plan all along? The only time our finger slipped off the button was 2006 when we thought Scotland were worth nothing and we paid with three Scottish victories. It won't happen again, from now on the Scots are perpetual dark horses

miteyironpaw wrote:Given that Wales finished 4th in the RWC, but the 6N is apparently harder according to Edwards, you'd have to think they're expecting 5th or 6th surely.

Using that rationale England will finish below them again as in the World Cup. So I guess it must be the Spoon for you.

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:
1st Ireland/France
2nd France/Ireland
3rd Wales
4th Scotland
5th England
6th Italy

wow!

[quote="adambarney"]

Cymroglan wrote:People need to stop using the HC as a yardstick on how well a International side will perform.
Different quad different coaches different mindset and all that.[/quote

just cause ireland got 3 teams in qf doesnt mean there gonna have good six nations cause irish teams and french teams put alot into hc i think wales england scotland are going to be fresher

Interesting logic there. Halfway through the season and the French and Irish teams are going to be tired from their exertions in the HC. It's quite possible but unlikely. By using the HC as a yardstick, you are taking the most recent form guide. If your country's teams have not being doing well, it doesn't look great for the 6N. I can understand why some are reluctant to use it but there is a certain amount of denial going on.

Buit if it fits in with your particular logic, why let reason get in the way?

biltongbek wrote:

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:
1st Ireland/France
2nd France/Ireland
3rd Wales
4th Scotland
5th England
6th Italy

wow!

Are you Neil Lennon?

Ha, why?

Wales world cup 2011 record - Played 7, Won 4, Lost 3

Hardly championship material!

I'd say 3rd or 4th place is about where Wales are.

England 5th isnt impossible.

The Scotland game is very loseable. They currently dont have a side, and half the players who have anything approaching senioriy are injured or excluded. Theres every chance they will have a starting 8 who will have met his teamamtes for the first time two weeks before the game.
The fixtures against the big 4 are always loseable, and a bad start against scotland could leave the side in tatters. I dont expect them to loose all those games, but its possible.

Italy to win both home games this year?

Comfort wrote:Italy to win both home games this year?

I thought they were away to Wales

I don't want to say 4th ...especially as we're meeting them 1st... they might take it personal and ensure we come in 6th.

So I'll just say....nice Wales, that's a boy. Whose a good boy? Want your belly scratched?...no, no...don't bite me. Good boy.

This season will be very hard for the average Welsh fan as they seem to believe the hype that went with their World cup semi-final. Wales are not a good team and on the above voting format i voted for them to finish 4th which the majority of posters seemed to agree with.

The deadly and dangerous hype of what is an entertaining, but fundamentally flawed side creates expectation from the Welsh fans that the team cannot hope to deliver. Cue Welsh heartache!!

English Warrior, what is this fundamental flaw of which you speak?

Luckless pedestrian- The fundamental flaw is that they are not good enough simple really.

Surely you must know that saying 'Wales are not a good team' just isn't true, whether you like Wales or not.

Luckless- The average Welsh position in the 6 nations is 4th, despite 2 grand slams in that period, which is true, and doesn't point to a team of Worldbeaters.

In addition England, who are on their uppers, have beaten SH opposition home and away in the last year or so, when has this Welsh team beaten SH opposition abroad?

In the world cup they won 4 aginst poor sides, while getting beaten by everyone of the 3 decent sides they came up against.

What that tells me is the Welsh team is average to poor. Possibly you'll see it another way!!

World rugby must be in a pretty poor state if an average to poor side can get within a couple of points of a World Cup final.

So, looking at the voting so far there are more people think Wales will finish in the top 3 than the bottom 3.
5 for first
8 for second
8 for third Total 21

14 for fourth
3 for fifth
3 for sixth Total 20

I think that's about fair. I vote first but we could slip up against Ireland and possibly even France and come second or third.

English Troll more like... probably couldn't his way out of a wet paper bag.

C'mon boys the Warrior is still in denial after his team finished 8th in the RWC, and that by the skin of their teeth. Give the guy a break, he needs one before Scotland and Italy pour more misery on the misfiring chariot

It was actually combined 5th.

1st. New Zealand
2nd. France
3rd. Australia
4th. Wales
combined 5th - SA, IRE, ARG, ENG.

Yeah, thanks for that Biltong....

pleasure.

english warrior wrote:Luckless- The average Welsh position in the 6 nations is 4th, despite 2 grand slams in that period, which is true, and doesn't point to a team of Worldbeaters.

In addition England, who are on their uppers, have beaten SH opposition home and away in the last year or so, when has this Welsh team beaten SH opposition abroad?

In the world cup they won 4 aginst poor sides, while getting beaten by everyone of the 3 decent sides they came up against.

What that tells me is the Welsh team is average to poor. Possibly you'll see it another way!!

Wales may be average but then so are England really. Between the last world cups Wales and England have won the same amount of six nations matches. In the last world cup which frankly is the only one of any relevance with regards to the teams now. Wales out performed England and made the semi finals.
So by your workings out, Wales are average and are expected to finish fourth, England who have averaged exactly the same amount of 6N wins in the last 4 years and were less successful in the world cup a few months ago should surely by your reckoning be looking at fifth place.

I have Wales to finish 3rd, ahead of England.

I think that to an extent, Wales did flatter to deceive in the WC, they weren't the best NH side - having said that, they did play much better than in previous years, but like some here, I do not think they are the real deal - yet.

There's a fair bit of optimism amongst the Welsh fans (isn't there always?), but I suspect that Ireland will have too much for them on opening weekend and I even expect that England will beat them at Twickenham.

overlordofthewest wrote:

english warrior wrote:Luckless- The average Welsh position in the 6 nations is 4th, despite 2 grand slams in that period, which is true, and doesn't point to a team of Worldbeaters.

In addition England, who are on their uppers, have beaten SH opposition home and away in the last year or so, when has this Welsh team beaten SH opposition abroad?

In the world cup they won 4 aginst poor sides, while getting beaten by everyone of the 3 decent sides they came up against.

What that tells me is the Welsh team is average to poor. Possibly you'll see it another way!!

Wales may be average but then so are England really. Between the last world cups Wales and England have won the same amount of six nations matches. In the last world cup which frankly is the only one of any relevance with regards to the teams now. Wales out performed England and made the semi finals.
So by your workings out, Wales are average and are expected to finish fourth, England who have averaged exactly the same amount of 6N wins in the last 4 years and were less successful in the world cup a few months ago should surely by your reckoning be looking at fifth place.

By less succesful I assume you mean lost less matches and won the same number?
And over the last 2 years how do the sides results stack up?

But yeah both teams are much of a muchness really. Wales played better in the WC but it takes a bilnd optimist to assume that they will carry that form into the 6 nations, especially given the injuries are taking hold.


I expect both England and Wales to be fighting over whos had the worst 6 nations, not the best. Its diffiulct to see either bossing this one.

It would certainly be wrong to assess Wales's prospects on their World Cup games without also considering the performance they put in against Australia in Cardiff, when we weren't great. We weren't all that brilliant in the third / fourth place playoff, either.

I dunno luckless, that game was a joke. None of thepalyers wanted it and it wasnt prepared for properly. Its why the Ais are often so ridiculous, team preperation just sint he same as it is for a competitive tournament.
I mean I wouldnt have read into Englands struggles against the Baabaas that they were going to be rubbish at the world cup

Maybe so, Seabiscuit, but it seems daft to say Wales have been in great form while ignoring their last couple of games.

Then again, Australia are a handy side!

The more I think about it, and the more injuries that seem to be coming up, my genuine sense of "this could be a very strong 6 nations for Wales" is fading as usual. Im just waiting for Gatlands comments to stoke things up nicely before the game, and then for me to feel the anti-climax when we struggle to beat scotland and italy and end up in fourth.

Ahhhh, back to normal.

Any bets on Shingler being called up to the welsh squad to cover Priestlands injuries, only for him to kick the winning penalty against scotland and proclaim "ive always loved wales, ive been there a few times".

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Maybe so, Seabiscuit, but it seems daft to say Wales have been in great form while ignoring their last couple of games.

Then again, Australia are a handy side!

Yeah they thrashed England right!

Comfort wrote:The more I think about it, and the more injuries that seem to be coming up, my genuine sense of "this could be a very strong 6 nations for Wales" is fading as usual. Im just waiting for Gatlands comments to stoke things up nicely before the game, and then for me to feel the anti-climax when we struggle to beat scotland and italy and end up in fourth.

Ahhhh, back to normal.

Any bets on Shingler being called up to the welsh squad to cover Priestlands injuries, only for him to kick the winning penalty against scotland and proclaim "ive always loved wales, ive been there a few times".

I feel much teh same about England!

How about Shinglers return motto being " Ive always known about Wales, thats why I was desperate to escape to Scotland"

ahhh Shingler, he escaped from Wales, the law stopped him getting into Scotland, and now hes stuck in England with the Irish.

And to console himself he's eating spaghetti Bolognese and coq au vin.

I still believe that it will be between Wales and France with no GS.

eirebilly wrote:I still believe that it will be between Wales and France with no GS.

Wish I could go back to Holland and be as laid back and confident as you

I don't think there will be a GS this year but I'm betting my house on the fact there will be plenty of BS.

5th for me. Just don't think our boys are on form or have the strength in depth to replace injured players. Gatland & Wales surprised me in the RWC. Hats off to them they played well but blew the semi - very disappointing.

The saes rarely credit us with a good team. They just don't get that rugby games are won by moving the ball at pace. They think they can win with an almighty arm wrestle. Who came up with their tactics? Douglas Haig? Fortunately the more enlightened countries play at pace with skill and great prescence of mind. That's why the saes can't keep up with the French Ozzies or All Blacks. The only time england produced a team of note they actually had a backline that could move the ball and score tries. Apart from that over the course of their history they've not been able to take more than an even share of the spoils in their games with little old us!

On the basis of that record I'm not about to accept saes opinion on what makes a good team.

Let's not be complacent though boys. We've got problems going into this 6N.

1. No world class replacement for Adam Jones
2. Locks are thin on the ground
3. After Dan Lydiate who? Shingler maybe? Not quite the same
4. Priestland looks to have lost form, Biggar is complete carck and Hook has been in more blind alleys than a kerb crawler.
5. Beyond Priestland there's very little creativity in the backline
6. No recognised full-back in any sort of form apart from Byrne - do we really have to go back to him?

I might be overly pessemistic but I think we're looking a bit weak right now. :-(

TBS, that's the spirit

If you go back to just before the WC you could have argued we had an inexperienced skipper in Warbs, a largely untested kicker in Priestland, stuck with a 3rd choice hooker and a lack of depth at fullback. Not what makes a world cup contender you might say.

These negatives could have been and were cited, yet the boys surprised all, showed what they were capable of and came out all guns blazing. The optimism and confidence with which we played needs to be harnessed and if we can only but let that passion flow on a regular basis then, regardless of this being a cliché sentiment by now, we can win anything and beat anyone.

If someone like Huw Bennett can suddenly play like a beast and make us all eat our words about his ability, then you must know by now what is possible and what isn't

Believe.
Cymru Am Byth

+1

I was taking your post seriously until i read this

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:
1. No world class replacement for Adam Jones

Few teams have more than a couple of World Class players in their team, no one has more than one world class prop.

Knowsit17 wrote:TBS, that's the spirit

If you go back to just before the WC you could have argued we had an inexperienced skipper in Warbs, a largely untested kicker in Priestland, stuck with a 3rd choice hooker and a lack of depth at fullback. Not what makes a world cup contender you might say.

These negatives could have been and were cited, yet the boys surprised all, showed what they were capable of and came out all guns blazing. The optimism and confidence with which we played needs to be harnessed and if we can only but let that passion flow on a regular basis then, regardless of this being a cliché sentiment by now, we can win anything and beat anyone.

If someone like Huw Bennett can suddenly play like a beast and make us all eat our words about his ability, then you must know by now what is possible and what isn't

Believe.
Cymru Am Byth

Agreed