Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[Diggers]

First topic message reminder :

I don't mind Paul Walsh at all, there are at least another 5 on the Sky Soccer Saturday that are way worse. Thompson is annoying , Nicolas just as bad, Merson is funny in an are you simple kind of way. George Best used to be worst of the lot.
I always found Graham Taylor's commentary annoying , that was his voice more than anything though.
In athletics Colin Jackson is very poor as is Denise Lewis.

[kwinigolfer]

Wonder how much blame should be attached to Chris Foy for that . . . . ? Two very dodgy goals for Stoke.

[McLaren]

oh well.

[Diggers]

Now that was funny.

[McLaren]

For who diggers?


The real story is how utd managed to loose the 8 point lead?

[Fader]

Uat was possibly the greatest climax to any premier league season. Ageuro just wrote his name into the history books.

If your going to beat your neighbours on goal difference may as well do it in the dying seconds. How nice to see Fergie win nothing.

Right championship footy for me next season.

[McLaren]

I imagine that England fans are a little disappointed to see Carrick and Ferdinand left out of the squad?

Although I guess you have world class players like Milner and Downing to make up for the losses?

[Fader]

Not disappointed with either players omission from the squad. Can't see Downing starting nor Milner, but Milner offers options that Carrick wouldn't, he can play central, wide or at full back.

Ferdinand based on this seasons form wouldn't see him ahead of Terry, Lescott or Cahill.

[Tiler76]

How Downing continues to get anywhere near an England shirt is completely beyond me....

[McLaren]

But Carrick offers something Milner can't, and that is that he is a good player. Never mind whether he can play out wide or in goals.

[kwinigolfer]

Trouble is, there's only a core of five or six true International-class English players, and two of them are left-backs!

Look at the injury issues still to be overcome:
Terry: Only half fit. (Don't understand why the most villainous corruptive force in football gets picked - lunatics running asylums etc.)
Cahill
Parker
Walcott
Welbeck?
Young??
Plus why take Oxlade-C; if he was ready he'd be playing for Arsenal. I thought Hodgson was going to stamp his mark on the team.

Crouch, Richards, Jagielka, Adam Johnson should all feel aggrieved, Ferdinand too I suppose, though I wouldn't have taken either Terry or Ferdinand. I like Carrick but don't feel he'd play even if picked so, at his age, why take him?

Both Walcott and Young switch on and off - if Ferguson and Wenger can't motivate them, what chance does Hodgson have?

[Tiler76]

Personally I think Milner makes a good squad player because of his versatility (much like Phil Neville used to), but ultimately whether we take Carrick or not, or Rio or not, doesn't make much difference. It's an average squad with average players, no matter how much the media in this country like to build the hype to the contrary.

Kwini - I challenge you to name the "5 or 6"! I'll give you Cole, Rooney and Hart - who am I missing??

[kwinigolfer]

Tiler,
Good point!
Personal opinion only, but I really like Baines (more than Cole), plus I reckon a fit Gerrard is a terrific player - not sure he's fit though. Same with Scott Parker, but unfortunately it looks like he's wearing down and needs a sandy beach somewhere.

[Tiler76]

Never seen much of Baines, I guess his problem is that Cashley is one of our most consistent performers of the so-called golden generation.

I agree Gerrard has been exceptional for his club, but for me, has never come close to replicating that for his country. Trys to play the 60-yard killer pass too often for my liking and concedes possession - criminal in international football. Find him very frustrating because he clearly has the talent.

Scott Parker to me is the same as Barry before him and Hargreaves before that, we're quick to label them as the next great thing off the back of a few good games.

I'd be happier to see us ditiching all the supposed big names - Rio, Terry, Gerrard, Lamps, even Rooney - and start again with youth/form. Don't know whether it's anything to do with player power or not, but too many under-performing "stars" for too long for me.

At least Roy has a track record for getting average players to over-achieve...

[Diggers]

Cant believe he is taking Carroll and Terry, especially Terry who presumably will be starting if he is going. Think leaving Richards is a huge mistake, he'd be first choice right back for me. Wouldnt have taken Ox, too young and unproven. All in all some big mistakes IMO.
Personally quite happy with Gerrard as skipper and central midfield, if anyone can name an alternative creative midfielder who is anywhere near his class, bar Lampard, Id be suprised. Wilshire clearly would have been in the side, but without him we need Gerrard. Think he will suprise a lot of people this summer.

[Tiler76]

Diggers - completely agree on Terry, and I would love to be surprised by Gerrard, but IMO he's never taken his undoubted talent to the international stage.

Still think we lack quality overall, getting out of the Group would be a decent tournament I think, anything beyond that I think would be a success.

[super_realist]

Agreed tiler. England are at a Sweden/Denmark/Croatia level so getting out of the group would be a decent building block. Once Roy clears out the terry/lampard/gerrard deadwood after this tournament England might start to improve.

[McLaren]

Am i the only person who thinks Carrick is a world class player?

He is basically the english Busquets..

[Diggers]

Busquets is way more mobile than Carrick, puts himself about a bit. Carrick has a lot of qualities, but he is also slow and can be bypassed sometimes. That said international football should suit him but somehow doesnt.

[super_realist]

Shut up about Carrick for heavens sake. If he wasn't a man u player you'd think he was rubbish.

[kwinigolfer]

I agree with Mac about Carrick (more versatile than Busquets) but the fact is he's, rightly or wrongly, behind Barry and Parker in the pecking order so why waste his time?

[Diggers]

Not to sure what's versatile about Carrick, he's either a defensive midfielder or a defensive midfielder. Doesn't provide cover anywhere else.

[McLaren]

Not to sure what's versatile about Terry, he's either a centre back or a centre back. Doesn't provide cover anywhere else.


Not to sure what's versatile about barry, he's either a donkey or a donkey. Doesn't provide cover anywhere else.


Not to sure what's versatile about Hart, he's either a keeper or a keeper. Doesn't provide cover anywhere else.


Not sure I get your point diggers, the fact is; carrick is the best holding midfielder England have. Why does he need to play anywhere else.

He is the only England central midfielder interested in keeping the ball for more than 3 seconds before trying some over complicated 50 yard pass.

[Diggers]

My point was a reply to Kwinis post saying Carrick was versatile , I was just pointing out that he isn't as far as I can see.
He does hold onto the ball well, but in certain games, usually against better sides, he goes AWOL when it comes to winning the ball.I think he also lacks a bit of confidence.
I don't think he's rubbish and wouldnt have minded him in the squad, but he's far from world class.

[kwinigolfer]

Digs,
The only reason I think he's versatile is because he can do a job defensively in an emergency, though the same could be said about Barry. Certainly not the rest though.
But given the apparent "sacred cow" inclusion of some others, there's no room for Carrick. No young central midfielders at International class yet, unless you include Wilshere - which I wouldn't. Pathetic really.

On a separate note, is there a League club that has benefitted from having American owners? Not quite sure about Sunderland, but certainly can't think of any others.

The Fenway people will make the Anfield situation worse before it can ever get better, Steve Clarke apparently out the door also.
No surprise that Fenway's Boston Red Sox are also in turmoil.

[Diggers]

Neville is a big fan of a 3 man midfield , might help us hold possession if Hodgson plays Barry, Parker and Gerrard. At least we shouldn't get over run as we often do with a 4 4 2.

[Skydriver]

Lee Westwood's horse seems to have a Twitter account...

http://twitter.com/#!/hoofitofficial

[McLaren]

Kiwni

“On a separate note, is there a League club that has benefitted from having American owners?”

I would say Liverpool, as I doubt the owners wanted Kenny in charge to begin with. It was the fans that partly forced his appointment in the first place.

The reason I say they have benefitted is that they have now sacked the silly little bigot for not even beginning to understand the issue of racism, and partly exacerbating it. I just hope they come out and admit it was more about his insistence that players should be able to racially abuse people and get away with it rather than just a poor finish in the league.

[super_realist]

I don't think Liverpool are a big club anymore. Loads of plastic fans and simpering sycophants hanging onto days of yore and hillsborough sympathies.
They'll be battling for sixth at best next year alongside Newcastle

[navyblueshorts]

Kiwni

“On a separate note, is there a League club that has benefitted from having American owners?”

I would say Liverpool, as I doubt the owners wanted Kenny in charge to begin with. It was the fans that partly forced his appointment in the first place.

The reason I say they have benefitted is that they have now sacked the silly little bigot for not even beginning to understand the issue of racism, and partly exacerbating it. I just hope they come out and admit it was more about his insistence that players should be able to racially abuse people and get away with it rather than just a poor finish in the league.

I'd argue there's no evidence of racism re. Suarez. In fact, the investigation specifically said there was no evidence of it and that Suarez wasn't a racist based on that incident. Your comment that it was de facto racism is exactly the problem with throwing that sort of accusation around willy nilly. If I wanted to wind someone up, I might consider saying anything outrageous but it doesn't mean I hold those opinions for real. Given the way footballers behave, I'd quite happily accept that one player might accuse another of racist remarks when there was no such thing simply to get a ban for the other player.

[kwinigolfer]

nbs,
That's what it looked like from here too. Stupidity and ignorance from Suarez - having said that, someone could have helped Dalglish get through it instead of making himself look a total prat.

Hicks was an idiot but I met Gillett the night he put pen to paper at Anfield and he had lots of good ideas - his son seemed a really good man.

Very happy to see Henry behave like the wally he appears to be over here - his Red Sox also a dynasty in decline.

PS: Mac, I saw a note elsewhere that said Carrick had declined interest in the Euros if he was just going to be a squad player . . . . Don't blame him.

[McLaren]

navy

Ok, maybe my dislike of Daglaish meant that comment was a little over the top but you cant deny King Kenny made a massive PR error in the way he handled the situation? And in a world where PR means a lot, he really had to go.

Kwini

I will be alone but I really think carrick could have been a pivotal player for England. But I guess the English like a typical English player like gerrard or barry instead of one who actually knits a team together like carrick.

Good on him for turning down a position which comes nowhere near befitting his talent.

[Diggers]

Suarez had every chance to make amends, to hold his hand up and say OK I made a mistake but that's all it was. He didn't do that and the report also highlights he changed his story at least three times. Daglish then did his level best to inflame the whole scenario further. Both idiots.

[Diggers]

I'm impressed Carrick never announced his international retirement. Minimum of fuss made, just privately asked not to considered. Classy.

[navyblueshorts]

If Suarez made a mistake it's in underestimating the whining that Evra was likely to do. It appears OK to insult someone in anyway and at any level under the sun as long as you don't mention colour - pathetic. Suarez' grandfather is black. If I was Suarez, I'd be royally peed off too at being given an absurd 8 match ban. Maybe Evra should have grown some and articulated a witty put down although that's almost certainly asking too much.

[Diggers]

What, so you think that Evra was aware that Suarez had a black grandfather ? Maybe he should be aware of the geneology of every player who abuses him ?

[McLaren]

Diggers

I am not sure he has actually retired, and could be brought in if parker does not make it. So he refused to go on the alternate list officially but is actually the alternate for centre mid. odd to say the least.

[Diggers]

Really, I heard he said he didnt want to be considered to be picked if he was in as just a fringe player. Only coming in as a replacement would suggest he clearly would be a fringe player in the squad so really cant believe he would change his mind in that particular instance, wouldnt make and sense.

[McLaren]

Maybe I got it wrong diggers.

[Diggers]

Maybe he will change his mind Mac, if they were to play a 3 man midfield I actually think that him and Barry and Gerrard could be a good mix.
Barry, like Carrick gets a lot of stick but he has been outstanding for City this year and is a good player who can also pass well, certainly not a 60 yard glory pass boy. With these two in the side Gerrard would have free reigh to push on. Maybe Young, Walcott and Wellbeck (then Rooney) playing up front, though I supect he would rather play Milner than Walcott to add a bit of tracking back.

[super_realist]

I heard the same story as Diggers. Perhaps he doesn't want to be involved with a team of no-hopers.

[Diggers]

There is always hope Super, Im not ecstatic with a few squad choices but presumably Roy has his reasons.
Writing off any possibility of a decent performance would be as bad as the usual over confidence IMO. There are still plenty of good players in the squad, I dont think we will be a pushover for anyone and given a bit of luck, something England rarely get admittedly, who knows what can happen.

[McLaren]

I have always thought it must be odd for anyone who plays for Man Utd to be part of the England squad.

[super_realist]

I think England's inability to play as a team and in a style suited to international football will once again be their downfall.
I'm pleased to see most of the media accepting England in their rightful place as a second tier nation now though. Impressed with what Roy has said so far however and I think he's the best a country like England could attract. A semi final would be a extraordinary achievement and probably result in a Knighthood.

[McLaren]

If I were england manager my starting 11 would be

Hart

Richards Cahill Ferdinand Cole

lennon Rodwell Carrick Lampard young

Rooney

[super_realist]

Rooney is suspended for the first two games Mac.

[McLaren]

Then sub in walcott for lennon and put welbeck in for Rooney.

[super_realist]

Lennon isn't in the squad Mac and nor is Richards.

[Diggers]

I think Mac is picking his own side Sr, dont think Rodwell is in ither. I agree with Mac in terms Of Richards, 100% he would start for me (crazy choice not to take him) and Lennon would be a good option in a 3 man midfield, he actually tracks back really well.

[super_realist]

I agree about leaving out Gerrard, terribly over-rated internationally.

[Diggers]

I dont think Gerrard is over rated internationally. I doubt you will find anyone who thinks he has played as well as he should of done in an England shirt....though both him and Lampard have scored a good ratio of goals.
But how often has he had the chance of a free central midfield role playing as skipper ? Could be the making of him. Plus as I keep asking, name one other creative attacking midfielder who should be picked ahead of Gerrard ?
The cupboard is literally bare.

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