Irish Summer Tour Squad

First topic message reminder :

RELAND SUMMER TOUR SQUAD (New Zealand 2012):

Backs (13):

Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
AN Other

Forwards (16):

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster) *
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Mike Sherry (Garryowen/Munster) *
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
AN Other
AN Other
AN Other

Sin é never has so much crap been written by you on one subject in the history of this forum.

What I can't understand is your reluctance to actually admit the real reason you think DOC should play ahead of Tuohy.

I'll spell it out for you, shall I?

Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)

Sin é wrote:Ronan O'Gara has more caps than the rest of the team put together for the Baa-Baas game.
The cuppard is pretty bare when it comes to locks after POC, DOC & Ryan. Leo is getting on a bit as well.

Its a feicing Baa-baas game Sin, there are no caps or ranking points. It should be used to prepare for the tour so what is ROG needed for other than to boost his confidence after a shoite season.

Tuohy and Toner have had excellent seasons followed by McCarthy and Stevenson. The cupboard is not bare but these players deserve their chance, not to warm the bench whilst DOC flops around giving away penalties.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Exactly, but Sin managed to turn that around and talk about O'Callaghans' achievements.. which we have been doing the whole time about Thorn and Tuohy, to prove their height hasn't been a hindrance in the slightest.

We really need a facepalm smiley, for Sin alone..

Thats the way your mind works. I used the Lions in case people would claim that it is Munster bias that DOC gets selected for Ireland
Clive Woodward & Geech didn't seem to have a problem with his arm span.

Rava wrote:Sin é never has so much crap been written by you on one subject in the history of this forum.

What I can't understand is your reluctance to actually admit the real reason you think DOC should play ahead of Tuohy.

I'll spell it out for you, shall I?

Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)

+ 1 .

Sin é wrote:

red_stag wrote:I don't buy into this "blooding players" or playing guys just because a Rugby World Cup is three and a half years away.

I want to see us pick our best team to play our best game.

However even if you (like me) just want to see the best guys picked I don't know how O'Gara and O'Callaghan can be considered part of it.

Madigan was left on the bench against the Os at the weekend (he didn't even get a minute). Do you think he'd be up to the ABs.

Ronan O'Gara has more caps than the rest of the team put together for the Baa-Baas game.
The cuppard is pretty bare when it comes to locks after POC, DOC & Ryan. Leo is getting on a bit as well.

Why do you put DOC into that sentence,he's not close to the standard of those other two.In truth the only provincial team he'd get a start for these days is Connacht.

Rava wrote:Sin é never has so much crap been written by you on one subject in the history of this forum.

What I can't understand is your reluctance to actually admit the real reason you think DOC should play ahead of Tuohy.

I'll spell it out for you, shall I?

Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)

Hmm, I would probably put this one behind the Sexton hate thread. There are a few contenders though!

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Exactly, but Sin managed to turn that around and talk about O'Callaghans' achievements.. which we have been doing the whole time about Thorn and Tuohy, to prove their height hasn't been a hindrance in the slightest.

We really need a facepalm smiley, for Sin alone..

Thats the way your mind works. I used the Lions in case people would claim that it is Munster bias that DOC gets selected for Ireland
Clive Woodward & Geech didn't seem to have a problem with his arm span.

And Ulster/NZ don't have a problem with having a 6 foot 5 (how small!) second row!

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:Ronan O'Gara has more caps than the rest of the team put together for the Baa-Baas game.
The cuppard is pretty bare when it comes to locks after POC, DOC & Ryan. Leo is getting on a bit as well.

Its a feicing Baa-baas game Sin, there are no caps or ranking points. It should be used to prepare for the tour so what is ROG needed for other than to boost his confidence after a shoite season.

Tuohy and Toner have had excellent seasons followed by McCarthy and Stevenson. The cupboard is not bare but these players deserve their chance, not to warm the bench whilst DOC flops around giving away penalties.

Eh, its a warmup game for the tour. Some players haven't had a game for over a month and need gametime. O'Gara has played about 3 games of rugby since January.

I wonder why..

They'll need more than a Barbarian game to warm them up to the standards required in NewZealand I'm afraid. Let's just see a warm up of stale strategy, that might help the warm up greatly.

So lets paly a warm game using a game plan that has no bearing on how we will play in NZ

I give up I real do ................

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:Ronan O'Gara has more caps than the rest of the team put together for the Baa-Baas game.
The cuppard is pretty bare when it comes to locks after POC, DOC & Ryan. Leo is getting on a bit as well.

Its a feicing Baa-baas game Sin, there are no caps or ranking points. It should be used to prepare for the tour so what is ROG needed for other than to boost his confidence after a shoite season.

Tuohy and Toner have had excellent seasons followed by McCarthy and Stevenson. The cupboard is not bare but these players deserve their chance, not to warm the bench whilst DOC flops around giving away penalties.

Eh, its a warmup game for the tour. Some players haven't had a game for over a month and need gametime. O'Gara has played about 3 games of rugby since January.

Why does ROG need gametime. IMO he isn't good enough to be in the match day squad anymore. I would be more inclined to say "Ronan, take the summer off and get ready for next season".

He is short on gametime and lacking match practice.
He does not posses the assets needed to beat New Zealand.
We have viable alternatives in his position.

If it was down to Eddie/Declan/Sin e we would be putting how the team out in their 40's because we cant be sure that the players coming through will be good enough.

We need to be absolutely certain they are going to make it otherwise we cant risk it.

Sin é wrote: O'Gara has played about 3 games of rugby since January.

Then on what basis is he deemed up to International rugby in 2012?

Because he has 100+ caps? Because he was in 3 Lions tours? Because he won 2 HECs?

It's a false economy to pick on reputation. Your picking someone based on how good they were in another place and time that no longer exists and never will again.

The reason ROG has played 3 games is because his body and mind aren't up to the rigours of Pro12 Rugby let alone International rugby against the AB's.

geoff998rugby wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:AS I say this reluctance to give the up and coming players a chance is the bain of Irish rugby.

Anywhere else, in the World, Tuohy would be ahead of DOC.
Talk about shooting ourselves in the foot - we do it all the time

There is a difference geoff.

What difference

Pretty sure i explained it in what you left out of the quote.

I personally want him in the squad ahead of DOC to see what he can do. I just have reservations as to whether he will be able to maintain the intensity of International rugby. Based on what i have seen Tuohy seems to run out of gas early, that may be due to an old injury, putting to much effort in or that he does'nt have the fitness levels required. I dont know what it is, its just a feeling that i have.



So, its not that i DONT want him in the squad, i just feel that he may not cut it. Thats the difference.

Rava wrote:Sin é never has so much crap been written by you on one subject in the history of this forum.

What I can't understand is your reluctance to actually admit the real reason you think DOC should play ahead of Tuohy.

I'll spell it out for you, shall I?

Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)

I've closer connections to Tuohy (family is from my own county) than O'Callaghan who is from our detested neighbouring county.

All this illustrates is how biased your mind works.

At least I'm respectful to Tuohy - the bile streaming out of some of you about O'Callaghan, O'Gara & Murray and bringing in a Munster v Ulster attitude illustrates perfectly how some of your minds works.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote: O'Gara has played about 3 games of rugby since January.

Then on what basis is he deemed up to International rugby in 2012?

Because he has 100+ caps? Because he was in 3 Lions tours? Because he won 2 HECs?

It's a false economy to pick on reputation. Your picking someone based on how good they were in another place and time that no longer exists and never will again.

The reason ROG has played 3 games is because his body and mind aren't up to the rigours of Pro12 Rugby let alone International rugby against the AB's.

Because the rest of the options are poor.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote: O'Gara has played about 3 games of rugby since January.

Then on what basis is he deemed up to International rugby in 2012?

Because he has 100+ caps? Because he was in 3 Lions tours? Because he won 2 HECs?

It's a false economy to pick on reputation. Your picking someone based on how good they were in another place and time that no longer exists and never will again.

The reason ROG has played 3 games is because his body and mind aren't up to the rigours of Pro12 Rugby let alone International rugby against the AB's.

Because the rest of the options are poor.

The option you're picking is poorer.

Difference to what - that doesn't compute with my original post

As I say this reluctance to give the up and coming players a chance is the bain of Irish rugby.

Anywhere else, in the World, Tuohy would be ahead of DOC.
Talk about shooting ourselves in the foot - we do it all the time

My point was anywhere else in the world he would be given the chance to prove himself on the field of play. There might be reservations whether a player can make it or not, but anywhere else in the world the player would get a fair crack of the whip so I really dont understand the point you are making.

Sin é wrote:
All this illustrates is how biased your mind works.

At least I'm respectful to Tuohy - the bile streaming out of some of you about O'Callaghan, O'Gara & Murray and bringing in a Munster v Ulster attitude illustrates perfectly how some of your minds works.

There's posters from Ulster, Leinster and Munster here and not one, except you, believes O'Callaghan and to a lesser extent ROG is up to it. I think that says more about you than anyone else.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote: O'Gara has played about 3 games of rugby since January.

Then on what basis is he deemed up to International rugby in 2012?

Because he has 100+ caps? Because he was in 3 Lions tours? Because he won 2 HECs?

It's a false economy to pick on reputation. Your picking someone based on how good they were in another place and time that no longer exists and never will again.

The reason ROG has played 3 games is because his body and mind aren't up to the rigours of Pro12 Rugby let alone International rugby against the AB's.

Because the rest of the options are poor.

Under the current selection policy we dont know because the options are never given a chance

I give up, I really do..

Sin é wrote:

Rava wrote:Sin é never has so much crap been written by you on one subject in the history of this forum.

What I can't understand is your reluctance to actually admit the real reason you think DOC should play ahead of Tuohy.

I'll spell it out for you, shall I?

Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)

I've closer connections to Tuohy (family is from my own county) than O'Callaghan who is from our detested neighbouring county.

All this illustrates is how biased your mind works.

At least I'm respectful to Tuohy - the bile streaming out of some of you about O'Callaghan, O'Gara & Murray and bringing in a Munster v Ulster attitude illustrates perfectly how some of your minds works.

What a nerve you have my friend. What bile. As far as I can see all the comments about DOC ROG and Murray are rugby related. Your history of defending Munster players to the death does you no favours and making out that my comments make me biased is so far off the mark as to be contemptible.
The only bile that has streamed out of anywhere recvently was from yourself in relation to Sexton.

I thought that you were directing your message towards me geoff. My apologies if i didnt fully understand what you were saying.

As for bloodening players for the next 6N and RWC, i am all for it which is why i cant understand ROG going. Time to say thanks to him and get him into coaching as soon as possible i feel.

Siné,

Are you telling me that you, a Tipperary man living in Dublin feels some sort of a connection with a guy born in Bristol and now living in Antrim just because his Mam and Dad were born in the same county which you no longer live in.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:
All this illustrates is how biased your mind works.

At least I'm respectful to Tuohy - the bile streaming out of some of you about O'Callaghan, O'Gara & Murray and bringing in a Munster v Ulster attitude illustrates perfectly how some of your minds works.

There's posters from Ulster, Leinster and Munster here and not one, except you, believes O'Callaghan and to a lesser extent ROG is up to it. I think that says more about you than anyone else.

That's it really. It cannot be made more simple for you Sin E...

Meanwhile, on a tangent somewhere......

red_stag wrote:Siné,

Are you telling me that you, a Tipperary man living in Dublin feels some sort of a connection with a guy born in Bristol and now living in Antrim just because his Mam and Dad were born in the same county which you no longer live in.

smug

red_stag wrote:Siné,

Are you telling me that you, a Tipperary man living in Dublin feels some sort of a connection with a guy born in Bristol and now living in Antrim just because his Mam and Dad were born in the same county which you no longer live in.

Well picked up on.

If that doesn't give you an insight into this guys mindset, nothing will.

Tribal to the lasht.

More rope, Sin E???

I'll say one thing for you Irish blokes, you definitely know how to have an arguement.

aucklandlaurie wrote: I'll say one thing for you Irish blokes, you definitely know how to have an arguement.

An argument? Pah we just call this a quiet Tuesday

aucklandlaurie wrote: I'll say one thing for you Irish blokes, you definitely know how to have an arguement.

Now, all we need to do is to convince the ABs to have a debating comp with us instead of playing a rugby match !!

aucklandlaurie wrote: I'll say one thing for you Irish blokes, you definitely know how to have an arguement.

That's fighting talk...

red_stag wrote:Siné,

Are you telling me that you, a Tipperary man living in Dublin feels some sort of a connection with a guy born in Bristol and now living in Antrim just because his Mam and Dad were born in the same county which you no longer live in.

Yep. I've an attachment to players whose roots are from the same place as I am. Not an unusual phenomenan. You may have noticed that a few American presidents turn up every now and then to see where they came from and players like Simon Easterby wanted to play for Ireland even though he was brought up in England.

It works the other way as well as claiming them as our own.

Billy Keane regularly tells us that we should have a soft spot for Sexton because his Dad is from Kerry!

red_stag wrote:Siné,

Are you telling me that you, a Tipperary man living in Dublin feels some sort of a connection with a guy born in Bristol and now living in Antrim just because his Mam and Dad were born in the same county which you no longer live in.

Wow that is a sucker punch and a half!

Ian Keatley will feel hard done by but nobody would have him starting in an Irish game even in a parody post...

Mickado wrote:Ian Keatley will feel hard done by but nobody would have him starting in an Irish game even in a parody post...

Eh Mick he's from Leinster. Thats why he doesnt play well. . . .obviously.

aucklandlaurie wrote: I'll say one thing for you Irish blokes, you definitely know how to have an arguement.

We haven't even started Laurie!

Rava wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Rava wrote:Sin é never has so much crap been written by you on one subject in the history of this forum.

What I can't understand is your reluctance to actually admit the real reason you think DOC should play ahead of Tuohy.

I'll spell it out for you, shall I?

Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)

I've closer connections to Tuohy (family is from my own county) than O'Callaghan who is from our detested neighbouring county.

All this illustrates is how biased your mind works.

At least I'm respectful to Tuohy - the bile streaming out of some of you about O'Callaghan, O'Gara & Murray and bringing in a Munster v Ulster attitude illustrates perfectly how some of your minds works.

What a nerve you have my friend. What bile. As far as I can see all the comments about DOC ROG and Murray are rugby related. Your history of defending Munster players to the death does you no favours and making out that my comments make me biased is so far off the mark as to be contemptible.

The only bile that has streamed out of anywhere recvently was from yourself in relation to Sexton.

There is constant and unwarranted digs given at DOC, ROG & Murray.

As for Sexton, all I ever said about him is that I don't like the wee bugger. Not my fault that people keep twisting that into hate.

red_stag wrote:

Mickado wrote:Ian Keatley will feel hard done by but nobody would have him starting in an Irish game even in a parody post...

Eh Mick he's from Leinster. Thats why he doesnt play well. . . .obviously.

Jones, Downey and Murphy must be hard to take then...

Mickado wrote:

red_stag wrote:

Mickado wrote:Ian Keatley will feel hard done by but nobody would have him starting in an Irish game even in a parody post...

Eh Mick he's from Leinster. Thats why he doesnt play well. . . .obviously.

Jones, Downey and Murphy must be hard to take then...

No thats a different issue entirely they play for Munster . . . . <usual Siné change of subject (still waiting for all those people who named O'Callaghan a better scrummager than Tuohy etc)>. Anyway we'll take back Reddan, Cronin and Ross from you. Munster uber alles. Grr I hate Leinster. Grr I hate Ulster.

Brad Thorn

Listen Mick we all know that O'Connell is better than Thorn and Thorn is a better scrummager than Toner and Ryan is ahead of O'Callaghan for Munster while Cullen is partnering Thorn (and previously Hines don't forget)!!!!!!

So its pretty clear from that that Tuohy is inferior to O'Callaghan.

Mickado wrote:Brad Thorn

He's like all the American Presidents. He has all sorts of people scouring the archives to see whereabouts in Munster is his ancestral home.

Do you think Sin E would be this way if he still lived in Munster or because he is in behind enemy lines is he now over compensating?

Personally I think it would save a lot of time just to stuff a big red sock down there.

Sin é wrote:
There is constant and unwarranted digs given at DOC, ROG & Murray.

As for Sexton, all I ever said about him is that I don't like the wee bugger. Not my fault that people keep twisting that into hate.

Saying someone is not playing well or shouldn't be selected is not an unwarranted dig. What the flip are you talking about? This is a sports forum, we are talking about rugby related issues?

Anyone come up with the name of an established international lock who is 6'5" or under yet?

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:
There is constant and unwarranted digs given at DOC, ROG & Murray.

As for Sexton, all I ever said about him is that I don't like the wee bugger. Not my fault that people keep twisting that into hate.

Saying someone is not playing well or shouldn't be selected is not an unwarranted dig. What the flip are you talking about? This is a sports forum, we are talking about rugby related issues?

Where I live doesn't have an awful lot to do with rugby either Better have a word with the rest of the Stepford girls.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:
There is constant and unwarranted digs given at DOC, ROG & Murray.

As for Sexton, all I ever said about him is that I don't like the wee bugger. Not my fault that people keep twisting that into hate.

Saying someone is not playing well or shouldn't be selected is not an unwarranted dig. What the flip are you talking about? This is a sports forum, we are talking about rugby related issues?

Where I live doesn't have an awful lot to do with rugby either Better have a word with the rest of the Stepford girls.

That's keep avoiding the point when you can't win,lol that's just completely standard from you