Irish Summer Tour Squad

by clivemcl Mon 21 May 2012, 12:05 pm

First topic message reminder :

RELAND SUMMER TOUR SQUAD (New Zealand 2012):

Backs (13):

Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
AN Other

Forwards (16):

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster) *
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Mike Sherry (Garryowen/Munster) *
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
AN Other
AN Other
AN Other

by Mcgavin Sean Tue 29 May 2012, 12:41 pm

red_stag wrote:Sin é has announced Ireland's team to take on New Zealand in the Guinness Summer Series

01 Marcus Horan (c)
02 Mike Sherry (c)
03 John Hayes (c)
04 Donnacha O'Callaghan (c)
05 Paul O'Connell (c)
06 Donnacha Ryan (c)
07 Peter O'Mahony (c)
08 James Coughlan (c)
09 Conor Murray (c)
10 Ronan O'Gara (c)
11 Simon Zebo (c)
12 James Downey (c)
13 Keith Earls (c)
14 Johne Murphy (c)
15 Felix Jones (c)

When asked about bringing Hayes out of retirement Sin é was heard to remark "Sure he played 3 matches this season, same as ROG - he'll be grand. He is there for experience and will make a great captain along with the other liginds"

In other news Ireland and Leinster flyhalf Jonathan Sexton has been missing for several days. Anyone with information regarding his whereabouts should contact the Gardaí.

LOL Very good stag especially the piece about Sexton

by Mickado Tue 29 May 2012, 12:41 pm

Sin é wrote:Anyone come up with the name of an established international lock who is 6'5" or under yet?

Dean Mumm

by SecretFly Tue 29 May 2012, 12:42 pm

Extra Inch Powder..that's what the Pharmacists need.

Give it to them young enough and ...well, they might end up with big - Whistle

hands. Which would be a bad batch of course because we'd be after the extra inch in the head.....Oops! It's untalkable about, this subject.

by BoyneRFC Tue 29 May 2012, 12:42 pm

Sin é wrote:Anyone come up with the name of an established international lock who is 6'5" or under yet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Bortolami

by Sin é Tue 29 May 2012, 12:43 pm

Rava wrote:
Mickado wrote:Brad Thorn

He's like all the American Presidents. He has all sorts of people scouring the archives to see whereabouts in Munster is his ancestral home.

And why would they be doing that?

For the record, my family are in the same spot for about the last 400 years. No need to scour any archives - just visit the local graveyard.

by geoff998rugby Tue 29 May 2012, 12:45 pm

As I say when all else fails the 'off on a tangent' card is played.

Apparantly believing that 2 fine servants of Irish rugby, ROG and DOC, are pass their sell by date and should no be included in front of Tuohy, Toner and Madigan is showing a narrow minded provincial bias Rolling Eyes

Hey ho ..................................

by BoyneRFC Tue 29 May 2012, 12:46 pm

Dean Mumm and Marco Bertolami. Both 6"5.

Over to you.

by Rava Tue 29 May 2012, 12:50 pm

Sin é wrote:Anyone come up with the name of an established international lock who is 6'5" or under yet?

From the past - Gordon Brown (Scotland) 30 caps + 8 B&I Lions

From the present - Ian Gough (Wales) 64 caps

by red_stag Tue 29 May 2012, 12:50 pm

Right so thats Dean Mumm, Marco Bortolami, Lionel Nallet, Pascal Pape, Brad Thorn.

It is certainly around the minimum height you would want from a lock but it is hardly too small*

*Incidently Willie John McBride was only 6 foot 3

by BoyneRFC Tue 29 May 2012, 12:53 pm

Sin E's off lads.

by SecretFly Tue 29 May 2012, 12:55 pm

BoyneRFC wrote:Sin E's off lads.

I await then his alter-ego DOD. DOD doesn't fight with stats.. he's more street. Wink

by red_stag Tue 29 May 2012, 12:57 pm

Secret,

DOD is just taking the pish. He's usually decent banter and when he acts like a Siné alter ego he knows he is taking the pish.

He is certainly tamer.

by geoff998rugby Tue 29 May 2012, 12:57 pm

Julien Pierre - France

by Rava Tue 29 May 2012, 12:57 pm

Sin é wrote:
Rava wrote:
Mickado wrote:Brad Thorn

He's like all the American Presidents. He has all sorts of people scouring the archives to see whereabouts in Munster is his ancestral home.

And why would they be doing that?

For the record, my family are in the same spot for about the last 400 years. No need to scour any archives - just visit the local graveyard.

Sin é wrote:
Yep. I've an attachment to players whose roots are from the same place as I am. Not an unusual phenomenan. You may have noticed that a few American presidents turn up every now and then to see where they came from and players like Simon Easterby wanted to play for Ireland even though he was brought up in England.

It works the other way as well as claiming them as our own.

Just following your tangential thread Sin Wink

Pretty much a tongue in cheek comment but designed to give you something to cling too when you get backed into a corner.

by Sin é Tue 29 May 2012, 1:00 pm

BoyneRFC wrote:Dean Mumm and Marco Bertolami. Both 6"5.

Over to you.

Dean Munn hasn't played international for 2 years (and up to that he was a bench option). Australia now have two 6'7" locks.

van Zyl (6'7") seems to have relegated Marco Bertolami to the bench.

by **rodders** Tue 29 May 2012, 1:02 pm

Would you say 6'7 is the minimum now then Sin, or should we knock an inch off to better suit your argument?

by red_stag Tue 29 May 2012, 1:04 pm

Has lineout throwing got harder? Why this concern.

There are 7 inches in difference between Shane Williams and George North yet both well.

Will 1 inch really make that big a deal? I think not.

by geoff998rugby Tue 29 May 2012, 1:05 pm

Didn't you know Something magical happens between 6ft 5" and 6ft 6".

Not only does it make you better in the lineout it makes you fitter, smarter, a better tackler, a better passer and a better ball handler.

Its quite incredible really

by Sin é Tue 29 May 2012, 1:06 pm

red_stag wrote:Right so thats Dean Mumm, Marco Bortolami, Lionel Nallet, Pascal Pape, Brad Thorn.

It is certainly around the minimum height you would want from a lock but it is hardly too small*

*Incidently Willie John McBride was only 6 foot 3

Yea, and outhalf's didn't need to tackle back then. Wink

And Gordon D'Arcy was big enough to be an inside centre.

The game evolves (and most that you mention are at the end of their international careers).

by Sin é Tue 29 May 2012, 1:08 pm

geoff998rugby wrote:Didn't you know Something magical happens between 6ft 5" and 6ft 6".

Not only does it make you better in the lineout it makes you fitter, smarter, a better tackler, a better passer and a better ball handler.

Its quite incredible really

6'6" is the absolute minimum for interantional rugby. (Ryan is 5'7").

by Rava Tue 29 May 2012, 1:09 pm

Sh1t I missed the goalposts being moved ...... AGAIN Rolling Eyes

by geoff998rugby Tue 29 May 2012, 1:09 pm

Yawn...................................................................................

Broken Record

by Rava Tue 29 May 2012, 1:10 pm

Sin é wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:Didn't you know Something magical happens between 6ft 5" and 6ft 6".

Not only does it make you better in the lineout it makes you fitter, smarter, a better tackler, a better passer and a better ball handler.

Its quite incredible really

6'6" is the absolute minimum for interantional rugby. (Ryan is 5'7").

And this is in which rule book?

by Sin é Tue 29 May 2012, 1:14 pm

red_stag wrote:Has lineout throwing got harder? Why this concern.

There are 7 inches in difference between Shane Williams and George North yet both well.

Will 1 inch really make that big a deal? I think not.

Comparing a wing to a lock is like comparing a scrumhalf to a prop - crazy!

Would Shane Williams make it if he was starting out now? Experience can do a fair bit for your game (I presume you give players a few games to settle in).

And for the record - 6'6" is the minimum (you may remember Leinster ran their campaign Route 6 Foot 6. (i.e., only considering peole with potential at 6 feet or over and thats for the club game).

by **rodders** Tue 29 May 2012, 1:16 pm

Sin é wrote:
6'6" is the absolute minimum for interantional rugby.

Can you quote a legitimate source for that?

Statistically are locks taller at International level than club/provincial level?

How tall were Trevor Brennan, MOD and Mike McCarthy?

by Sin é Tue 29 May 2012, 1:17 pm

Rava wrote:Sh1t I missed the goalposts being moved ...... AGAIN

Yep, your in too much of a hurry to find something that you can argue with. If you read back a couple of pages you will read where I said that POC & DOC were up against it anyway a they were on the short side of what is desirable.

In another post I said the ideal height seems to be 5.7"-5.8" (because after that they can be a bit like Bambi on ice) which was how Richie Grey was described once.

by BoyneRFC Tue 29 May 2012, 1:20 pm

I honestly don't know why anyone pays this guy any attention at all.. he has been like this for the years Ive been on here.

He is the definition of a WUM. Even his own ilk distance themselves from him.

by **rodders** Tue 29 May 2012, 1:21 pm

Sin have you ever actually watched a game of rugby?

by red_stag Tue 29 May 2012, 1:22 pm

rodders wrote:Sin have you ever actually watched a game of rugby?

In which Munster/Ireland were not playing.

by **rodders** Tue 29 May 2012, 1:24 pm

No I literally mean any game of rugby ever stag.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue 29 May 2012, 1:25 pm

Sin é wrote:Anyone come up with the name of an established international lock who is 6'5" or under yet?

Pascal Pape. Great player for France. Roussouw for South Africa who had a fantastic world cup.

by red_stag Tue 29 May 2012, 1:26 pm

rodders wrote:No I literally mean any game of rugby ever stag.

Rugby in Tipperary is very different. Its a game of 15 flankers running around after the ball.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 29 May 2012, 1:27 pm

The lad's a toon.

by **rodders** Tue 29 May 2012, 1:28 pm

I thought Brad Thorn had a decent RWC too Rory ... Wink

A shorter lock will have a mechanical advantage in the scrum but will have to work harder at the lineout. As long as you have at least 3 good lineout options thats what matters.

by Mickado Tue 29 May 2012, 1:29 pm

Route 66 was actually open to people who are 6ft5

https://www.606v2.com/t13819-leinster-launch-route-6-6-initiative

You wrote the article! Laugh

by **rodders** Tue 29 May 2012, 1:30 pm

red_stag wrote:
rodders wrote:No I literally mean any game of rugby ever stag.

Rugby in Tipperary is very different. Its a game of 15 flankers running around after the ball.

Thats were Kidney gets Irelands gameplan then..... Whistle

by Sin é Tue 29 May 2012, 1:31 pm

rodders wrote:
Sin é wrote:
6'6" is the absolute minimum for interantional rugby.

Can you quote a legitimate source for that?

Statistically are locks taller at International level than club/provincial level?

How tall were Trevor Brennan, MOD and Mike McCarthy?

My parents were married so I'm legitimate Smile

Just look at the height of all the top international locks now playing and they average about 5'7". The most highly rated up and coming lock, Richie Grey is 6'10". Courtney Lawes is 6'7". That is who Tuohy will have to compete against internationally.

Brennan (6'5"). MOD 6'5" Mick McCarthy (6'3").

by **rodders** Tue 29 May 2012, 1:32 pm

Mickado wrote:

Route 66 was actually open to people who are 6ft5

https://www.606v2.com/t13819-leinster-launch-route-6-6-initiative

You wrote the article!

god you couldn't make it up if you tried.... laughing

by BoyneRFC Tue 29 May 2012, 1:39 pm

........I am convinced the last laugh is on us for humoring him and granting him with any kind of audience..

by Sin é Tue 29 May 2012, 1:40 pm

rodders wrote:
Mickado wrote:

Route 66 was actually open to people who are 6ft5

https://www.606v2.com/t13819-leinster-launch-route-6-6-initiative

You wrote the article!

god you couldn't make it up if you tried....

Jennifer Ladyboy quote:
Chabal is useless in the 2nd row. Or anywhere now. Thorn is a freak of nature. Don't know what stamina pills he is on but he is phenomenal.

Nallet is in the same mould as Thorn (Enforcer) You have to be a special player to make it as a lock internationally at under 6'6".

Tuohy may be special enough. I don't see him enough to know, plus he has been out a lot.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue 29 May 2012, 1:44 pm

Not sure why you are quoting Jennifer. You really do shift the argument don't you?

by **rodders** Tue 29 May 2012, 1:45 pm

Sin fair play mate, you moved your goalposts so many times you've ended scoring against yourself Very Happy

by eirebilly Tue 29 May 2012, 1:46 pm

There are many aspects that make up a good lock and height is just one of them. That said, the game and the players are developing so having that extra height is an added bonus.

You can all laugh at Sin é but there is merit to what he is saying.

by Sin é Tue 29 May 2012, 1:47 pm

red_stag wrote:
rodders wrote:Sin have you ever actually watched a game of rugby?

In which Munster/Ireland were not playing.

What is the point of this quesition. Munster & Ireland would have to play other teams. Rolling Eyes

For the record, I saw Schmidt's mistake in not starting Thorn instead of Toner at the weekend Wink

by red_stag Tue 29 May 2012, 1:50 pm

There is merit Billy.

However such an obsession between 6 foot 5 and 6 foot 6 is hard to take seriously.

I can understand height being a factor when there is a real tangiable difference - say Richie Grey v Dan Tuohy height for example.

6.5 to 6.6 is too small to be the only issue. And for him it is the ONLY issue it seems.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue 29 May 2012, 1:53 pm

eirebilly wrote:There are many aspects that make up a good lock and height is just one of them. That said, the game and the players are developing so having that extra height is an added bonus.

You can all laugh at Sin é but there is merit to what he is saying.

No eirebilly, there isn't. Sin is suggesting that Tuohy is too small (at 6 foot 5) yet the proof speaks against him. Nallet, Thorn, Pape, Roussouw.. all of these guys played in the world cup, and played well. Sin laughs at the fact that arm span would play a bigger role than height. Well the facts suggest that some people have a bigger arm span than their height (Michael Phelps the swimmer is 6 foot 4, 6 foot 7 arm span) and others have smaller arms than their height.

If a 6 foot 5 player is good in the line out, and offers more around the park than the other options, what reasoning is behind him not being selected other than someone suggesting he is too short? Not one actual reason has been given as to why Tuohy isn't good enough other than he is 2 or 3 centimetres smaller than some other guys. Which is a poor reason.

by **rodders** Tue 29 May 2012, 1:55 pm

eirebilly wrote:There are many aspects that make up a good lock and height is just one of them. That said, the game and the players are developing so having that extra height is an added bonus.

You can all laugh at Sin é but there is merit to what he is saying.

Billy there is no merit to what Sin is saying. Hes making up a hypothetical minimum height for a lock.

Obviously height is an advantage in the lineout but that has to be balanced against standing jump height, ape index, quaility of the lifters etc.

Notch also pointed out that you need quick feet to manouvre in front of your opposite jumper, a disadvantage for a taller lock.

There are so many gaping holes in Sin E' argument that you could spend all day pointing them out.

by Sin é Tue 29 May 2012, 1:56 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Not sure why you are quoting Jennifer. You really do shift the argument don't you?

Because Jennifer agrees with my point that you'd have to be a very special player (POC & Thorn are special players) to make it as an international lock at 6'5".

I don't think Tuohy is that special.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue 29 May 2012, 1:57 pm

He also undid his own argument yesterday by pointing out that McLaughlin was selected by Leinster (6 foot 4) to make up for Thorn's weaknesses in the line out. People also pointed out a number of back row players (Parisse, Harinordoquy, Read, Croft) who are excellent line out operators. But apparently the fact they play in the back row means they don't count. Because of course, they aren't competing against other second rows when they jump..

Rolling Eyes

by Rory_Gallagher Tue 29 May 2012, 1:59 pm

Sin é wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Not sure why you are quoting Jennifer. You really do shift the argument don't you?

Because Jennifer agrees with my point that you'd have to be a very special player (POC & Thorn are special players) to make it as an international lock at 6'5".

I don't think Tuohy is that special.

Yeah, I see that, but you replied to rodders/Mickado who pointed out the article YOU wrote suggested that players at 6 foot 5 and over could go for that Leinster program. Quoting Jennifer didn't actually fix the fact you are twisting your own article..

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