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England World T20 squad

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Post by ShankyCricket Sat 02 Jun 2012, 10:07 pm

First topic message reminder :

At the moment, I'd go with

Craig Kieswetter(wk)
Luke Wright
Ben Stokes
Eoin Morgan
Jonny Bairstow
Jos Buttler
Samit Patel
Stuart Broad(c)
Graeme Swann
Danny Briggs/Steven Finn
Jade Dernbach


Steven Finn/Danny Briggs
Stuart Meaker
Ravi Bopara
Chris Nash


I will write a blog about England's limited overs sides and will explain more in detail there.

Thoughts?

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Post by Mike Selig Thu 19 Jul 2012, 11:55 pm

Quoting their ODI SRs at me has about as much relevance as quoting their test SRs, i.e. not very much.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 19 Jul 2012, 11:56 pm

Mike Selig wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:cook will just whack it like every other t20 player out there that plays the game mike!!

That is not an answer. Nobody at that level "just whacks it" - they pick an area they know they can score if the ball's in a certain place, and then back themselves. You really don't understand anything about the higher forms of the game if you think otherwise. Take any other international T20 opener in that situation:
- Gayle: can pull from that length, or come down the wicket and hit over the top.
- Shewag: naturally stays inside the line so can hit that through extra-cover - bowl a bit straighter and it's well known to be his problem ball
- Watson: murderous pull shot from that length, anything fuller and he can drive in a variety of areas
- Warner: either his short arm jab, or stay inside the line and through extra
- Dilshan: tendancy to stay inside the line, but with deep point and third-man that's a problem ball for him. Pull shot not a strength early on.
Etc...

I am not basing my analysis on Cook's test cricket - go and watch him play domestic T20, how often does he come down the wicket and hit the bowler back over his head?

so your baisng it on his doemstic record then? your starting to confuse your points mike- by he way you are taking the just whack it to literally.

what about the odis RR, why is cooks so much better than bells- add the fact that he is an opener into the equation as well

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Post by skyeman Thu 19 Jul 2012, 11:57 pm

mystiroakey wrote:[quote="

But the most important pasrt in this is that i dont think it will dilute his test game becusue he has the all round cricket brain that is so few and far between- that is why certyain players cant play more formats rather than ability
[quote]

I agree with you on the dilution subject.

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Post by Mike Selig Thu 19 Jul 2012, 11:58 pm

Eh? I'm basing it on HOW COOK PLAYS! NOT HIS RECORD!

Sorry if I hadn't made that clear.

What about the test SRs?

What about you answer the question? You say Cook has more shots. That situation, where is he hitting his boundary?

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Post by ShankyCricket Thu 19 Jul 2012, 11:59 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
Mike Selig wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:cook will just whack it like every other t20 player out there that plays the game mike!!

That is not an answer. Nobody at that level "just whacks it" - they pick an area they know they can score if the ball's in a certain place, and then back themselves. You really don't understand anything about the higher forms of the game if you think otherwise. Take any other international T20 opener in that situation:
- Gayle: can pull from that length, or come down the wicket and hit over the top.
- Shewag: naturally stays inside the line so can hit that through extra-cover - bowl a bit straighter and it's well known to be his problem ball
- Watson: murderous pull shot from that length, anything fuller and he can drive in a variety of areas
- Warner: either his short arm jab, or stay inside the line and through extra
- Dilshan: tendancy to stay inside the line, but with deep point and third-man that's a problem ball for him. Pull shot not a strength early on.
Etc...

I am not basing my analysis on Cook's test cricket - go and watch him play domestic T20, how often does he come down the wicket and hit the bowler back over his head?

so your baisng it on his doemstic record then? your starting to confuse your points mike- by he way you are taking the just whack it to literally.

what about the odis RR, why is cooks so much better than bells- add the fact that he is an opener into the equation as well
Not domestic record. But "watching" him bat at domestic level.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:01 am

so what are saying mike- you have seen cook,trott and bell at doemstic level- but cook is just lucky

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Post by ShankyCricket Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:05 am

The thing with Cook is that the domestic bowlers dont quite know what line and lengths to bowl at him. If you come around the wicket and not give him room, which is what most international bowlers will do, then he will struggle to score. Cook also doesnt have the power to launch spinners for sixes on slow tracks. Bell uses his feet pretty well against spin and that gives him an advantage over Cook when it comes to hitting over the top.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:09 am

To be honest i think this debate is revolving around your bell love. and my cook love. Bell for me just doesnt have the same head as cook. Cook is your padraig harrigton , your nick faldo over your lee westwood.

He rarely ever makes the wrong decisions any more. Bell is still slightly flakey/ I think cook will do the right thing for team- As long as we have powerfull hitters after him its all good- because he will play the shots required to score quick enough, just becausre he doesnt at other levels just tells me that he has a brain!

Do you guys not see this as being relevant

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Post by Mike Selig Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:12 am

I have seen all 3 bat at domestic and international level numerous times. They are all fine players in their own right, but Bell clearly has the larger range of scoring options of the 3.

Cook has very few scoring areas - this is not a criticism! Graham Thorpe had few scoring areas and we know how good he was; hell, S. Waugh had even fewer scoring areas... What he does have is tremendous understanding of his game, great patience, concentration and endurance. In tests this means he will wait and wait until the ball is in his area and then put this away. In ODIs he has to go looking for his area more (e.g. with the "pick-up" shot, or staying slightly inside the line to slash through point), but because of the way the game has gone this last year and because he has 10 overs with only 2 fielders on the boundary (and 2 have to be catching) he can score at a SR of between 70 and 100 comfortably.

From what I have seen he plays T20 exactly as he does ODIs domestically, but because bowlers bowl far more loose balls, and tactics are far less well thought out, his SR goes up.

At international T20 level he won't be able to rely on the odd bad ball, and the odd creation. He will be facing teams and bowlers who know exactly where he scores and how, and who will be good enough to make sure he can't (most international bowlers can put 12 balls on the spot - they won't manage the 36 required at the start of a 50 over game though). I just don't see where his other options are coming from: in 5 years I've watched him I can remember him hitting a medium-pacer over the top (straight or throw cover) about twice. I can remember even fewer pull shots off the length Watson or Warner play it (he is hampered here because he is tall).

So I put the question to you again: with the field as set and ball as described, where is Cook getting a boundary. I can see him try the pick-up over mid-wicket, but the length isn't there, and it is a 1 out of 2 shot. That means he needs to try it every 3 balls.

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Post by skyeman Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:14 am

mystiroakey wrote:To be honest i think this debate is revolving around your bell love. and my cook love. Bell for me just doesnt have the same head as cook. Cook is your padraig harrigton , your nick faldo over your lee westwood.

He rarely ever makes the wrong decisions any more. Bell is still slightly flakey/ I think cook will do the right thing for team- As long as we have powerfull hitters after him its all good- because he will play the shots required to score quick enough, just becausre he doesnt at other levels just tells me that he has a brain!

Do you guys not see this as being relevant
[quote]

But Cook in IT20's would be like a mini cooper compared to Bell's Ferrai.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:18 am

sorry mike but as i have said previously cook has all the shots- he will play them- i have explained this so many times- yet you keep asking where he will score. Is this not clear enough for you.

you are basing all of your assumptions on the unimportant but more importantly impossible to gauge stats(ones your just picking out of your head) "1 out of 2 shot" "12 balls" , blah blah ,etc etc.

You cant blank out real stats- real 100% factual stats(rr's averages etc) and then base it on your what if stats!


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Post by mystiroakey Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:19 am

cook is a rolls royce mate, bell is an alfa romeo

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Post by skyeman Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:27 am

mystiroakey wrote:To be honest i think this debate is revolving around your bell love. and my cook love. Bell for me just doesnt have the same head as cook. Cook is your padraig harrigton , your nick faldo over your lee westwood.
[quote]

Wrong, i would say i am more a Cook heart . But from my watching them both i feel that Bell would perform the better in IT20's.

But not saying that Cook could not cut the mustard.

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Post by Mike Selig Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:30 am

mystiroakey wrote:sorry mike but as i have said previously cook has all the shots- he will play them- i have explained this so many times- yet you keep asking where he will score. Is this not clear enough for you.

You have never said what shot he would play to that ball with that field. Saying "he has all the shots" (which as I say is a nonsense, he clearly doesn't have the "down the track and over cover" shot) is not an answer. I have given you 5 international openers and Bell and told you where you could expect them to hit such a ball. Please provide me with a precise answer as to how Cook is going to score a boundary in such a situation.

So far I have written 3 (I think) fairly coherent and reasoned posts on this debate: the first one where I start with pointing out that Bell has already opened in T20, the second where I spell out in detail what Cook's limitations are and set out a concrete situation where I think he would struggle to score, and the 3rd one the one you answered to above. You have responded in order as follows:
1) calling my post "laughable" and then saying "you're miles off mate"
2) saying "he'll just whack it"
3) completely avoiding the question.

I am arguing using precise and concrete hypotheticals, because Cook hasn't played an international T20 yet. I attach little relevance to domestic records, and even less to records in other formats, beyond noting that they imply certain things about the players involved. The "1 out of 2" I quoted is because I actually understand a bit about cricket. The pick-up shot is very difficult to play, particularly on slow wickets. With a deep square-leg out you are extremely unlikely to hit more than 1 out of 2 for a boundary.

So at the risk of repeating myself, the field is set as set out earlier and the bowler bowls 4th stump, just back of a length. Cook needs a boundary, what shot does he have to get him one? Precise answer, more than one shot accepted.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:31 am

you are basing all of your assumptions on the unimportant but more importantly impossible to gauge stats(ones your just picking out of your head) "1 out of 2 shot" "12 balls" , blah blah ,etc etc.

You cant blank out real stats- real 100% factual stats(rr's averages etc) and then base it on your what if stats!

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Post by skyeman Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:35 am

Mike Selig wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:sorry mike but as i have said previously cook has all the shots- he will play them- i have explained this so many times- yet you keep asking where he will score. Is this not clear enough for you.

You have never said what shot he would play to that ball with that field. Saying "he has all the shots" (which as I say is a nonsense, he clearly doesn't have the "down the track and over cover" shot) is not an answer. I have given you 5 international openers and Bell and told you where you could expect them to hit such a ball. Please provide me with a precise answer as to how Cook is going to score a boundary in such a situation.

So far I have written 3 (I think) fairly coherent and reasoned posts on this debate: the first one where I start with pointing out that Bell has already opened in T20, the second where I spell out in detail what Cook's limitations are and set out a concrete situation where I think he would struggle to score, and the 3rd one the one you answered to above. You have responded in order as follows:
1) calling my post "laughable" and then saying "you're miles off mate"
2) saying "he'll just whack it"
3) completely avoiding the question.

I am arguing using precise and concrete hypotheticals, because Cook hasn't played an international T20 yet. I attach little relevance to domestic records, and even less to records in other formats, beyond noting that they imply certain things about the players involved. The "1 out of 2" I quoted is because I actually understand a bit about cricket. The pick-up shot is very difficult to play, particularly on slow wickets. With a deep square-leg out you are extremely unlikely to hit more than 1 out of 2 for a boundary.

So at the risk of repeating myself, the field is set as set out earlier and the bowler bowls 4th stump, just back of a length. Cook needs a boundary, what shot does he have to get him one? Precise answer, more than one shot accepted.

Could be wrong but i think he has played 4 IT20's ave 15 s/r 112.


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Post by mystiroakey Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:37 am

Mike i think you have clearly missunderstand this debate pal. Cook will off course be trying to play more shots in the 20/20 format. You think he wont(isnt that our argument)- i cant give you examples of shots he doesnt play that much in the other formats- but i believe he is a winner that will just pick up that bat and play for the team in anyway physically possible fro him- we would see a much bigger range if he was given the chance. I thought this was very clear, lets not treat this like a quiz

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Post by Mike Selig Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:37 am

I'm not basing anything on stats, real (but irrelevant, such as their domestic records or their records in other formats) or imagined.

12 balls is a 2 over spell, you will very rarely see a seamer bowl 3 straight overs in a PP. I was in Kent recently and they expect 10 out of 12 balls to land on the spot, so it seems reasonable that in international cricket 11 or 12 is the minimum.

Perhaps you could answer the question?

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:37 am

your right he has played 4 games, obviously we cant base anything on 4 games anyway

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:39 am

mystiroakey wrote:Mike i think you have clearly missunderstand this debate pal. Cook will off course be trying to play more shots in the 20/20 format. You think he wont(isnt that our argument)- i cant give you examples of shots he doesnt play that much in the other formats- but i believe he is a winner that will just pick up that bat and play for the team in anyway physically possible fro him- we would see a much bigger range if he was given the chance. I thought this was very clear, lets not treat this like a quiz

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Post by Mike Selig Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:39 am

mystiroakey wrote:Mike i think you have clearly missunderstand this debate pal. Cook will off course be trying to play more shots in the 20/20 format. You think he wont(isnt that our argument)- i cant give you examples of shots he doesnt play that much in the other formats- but i believe he is a winner that will just pick up that bat and play for the team in anyway physically possible fro him- we would see a much bigger range if he was given the chance. I thought this was very clear, lets not treat this like a quiz

Do you think you could engage in a debate without being insulting?

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Post by Mike Selig Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:42 am

skyeman wrote:
Could be wrong but i think he has played 4 IT20's ave 15 s/r 112.

Correct. Apologies, I didn't see those games. Fairly poor stats then in the one area which counts, but as mysti points out fairly irrelevant given small sample size.

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Post by skyeman Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:49 am

Was he not dropped dropped for his then lack of scoring options and too many dot balls.

54 balls faced 25 scoring shots 29 dot balls

Arguement over.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:54 am

look its been a good debate(for me) but it really pararrells on the debate I had with 606ers after the oz ashes during the 1 day series before the 50 over WC . Eveyone was saying cook didnt have the game for odi's as well, i was fighting his cause..

I admit to being wrong about bell in the past. and i admit to being very tamely insulting. I will try and chill out with you lot in the next heated debate.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:55 am

skyeman wrote:Was he not dropped dropped for his then lack of scoring options and too many dot balls.

54 balls faced 25 scoring shots 29 dot balls

Arguement over.

thats not relevant to the cook of today, and even back then its his RR that is key.This argument is not over.

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Post by skyeman Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:56 am

mystiroakey wrote:look its been a good debate(for me) but it really pararrells on the debate I had with 606ers after the oz ashes during the 1 day series before the 50 over WC . Eveyone was saying cook didnt have the game for odi's as well, i was fighting his cause..

I admit to being wrong about bell in the past. and i admit to being very tamely insulting. I will try and chill out with you lot in the next heated debate.

Fine to me thumbsup

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Post by Mike Selig Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:58 am

mystiroakey wrote:Mike i think you have clearly missunderstand this debate pal. Cook will off course be trying to play more shots in the 20/20 format. You think he wont(isnt that our argument)- i cant give you examples of shots he doesnt play that much in the other formats- but i believe he is a winner that will just pick up that bat and play for the team in anyway physically possible fro him- we would see a much bigger range if he was given the chance. I thought this was very clear, lets not treat this like a quiz

Not "won't", "can't". If Cook did have all those shots tucked away somewhere we would have seen them by now, in a less-pressured situation. There is no way you can play a completely new shot in a pressure situation.

Let me expand a bit: learning a new skill (let's take Pietersen's switch-hit as a running example, but you could also use James Anderson's in-swing, Broad's round the wicket wide of off-stump, or a number of things) involves several stages. First you have to mentally commit. Then you pracitce - hour after hour in the nets. Once you're commited and confident you can play the shot, you try it in a match situation in training. Then you try it in an actual match where the pressure isn't as great as it can be - in Pietersen's case this was when he hit Murali's full toss for 6 over point (become square-leg) when KP was already well past 100. If that doesn't go well, then it's back to stage 1 or 2 (were you totally commited? did you practice it enough?). If it does then what remains is to try it when you feel you need it: for KP this was against Styris in the ODI.

We know this is how Cook operates also because it's how he's played most of his "new shots" up until now as well: think the sweep (when he first came onto the scene he didn't play it) or the pick-up. So if he did have these shots in his locker somewhere, then he'd have played them either in a county game, or towards the end of an ODI with the win already tucked up (say in the UAE at the end of his century).

There is of course a stage 0: you need to have the ability to play the shot in the first place. It is possible Cook could learn a few new shots and turn himself into an international T20 player in a year or 6 months time - I have no idea, I am not nearly qualified enough to comment on someone like Alastair Cook's potential limits (I don't see what he does at training, so I don't have much info, and in any case I wouldn't be nearly so arrogan as to presume I could judge such a guy's potential). I do however think I can comment on what he is capable of right now, based on what I see and what others closer to Cook have told me; and right now, having never hit a ball over cover in any kind of cricket match I can't see how Cook can do that in an international game, under the upmost pressure.

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Post by Mike Selig Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:59 am

mystiroakey wrote:
I admit to being wrong about bell in the past. and i admit to being very tamely insulting. I will try and chill out with you lot in the next heated debate.

Fair does. Apologies from me also if I got insulting in return. Anyway it's well known I enjoy these debates... thumbsup

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Post by skyeman Thu 16 Aug 2012, 8:41 am

Interesting . . . Cricketicc have extended the deadline for teams to submit their final 15 man squad for the World T20 until 24th August.


ICC extends deadline for final selection for World T20 by 6 days following request from 'several of its members. Not England though.

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Post by Shelsey93 Thu 16 Aug 2012, 11:00 am

skyeman wrote:Interesting . . . Cricketicc have extended the deadline for teams to submit their final 15 man squad for the World T20 until 24th August.


ICC extends deadline for final selection for World T20 by 6 days following request from 'several of its members. Not England though.

England have picked their squad but not yet announced it. I think we can fairly well guess 14 of the players, so the question will be who is taken as the 15th player (most likely a batsman and perhaps one who bowls).

KP has absolutely zero chance of being involved. They wouldn't drop a man for messing them about and being a destructive influence, then say actually, having retired from limited overs internationals and made us work out how to replace you, we're now going to forgive you and work out how to get you back in!

Any international comeback will come after the next round of central contracts. If it happens at all, most likely when the Tests in India start.

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Post by ShankyCricket Thu 16 Aug 2012, 11:07 am

Shelsey93 wrote:
skyeman wrote:Interesting . . . Cricketicc have extended the deadline for teams to submit their final 15 man squad for the World T20 until 24th August.


ICC extends deadline for final selection for World T20 by 6 days following request from 'several of its members. Not England though.

England have picked their squad but not yet announced it. I think we can fairly well guess 14 of the players, so the question will be who is taken as the 15th player (most likely a batsman and perhaps one who bowls).

KP has absolutely zero chance of being involved. They wouldn't drop a man for messing them about and being a destructive influence, then say actually, having retired from limited overs internationals and made us work out how to replace you, we're now going to forgive you and work out how to get you back in!

Any international comeback will come after the next round of central contracts. If it happens at all, most likely when the Tests in India start.
Well, then we have absolutely zero chance of winning it.

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Post by Shelsey93 Thu 16 Aug 2012, 11:20 am

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:
Shelsey93 wrote:
skyeman wrote:Interesting . . . Cricketicc have extended the deadline for teams to submit their final 15 man squad for the World T20 until 24th August.


ICC extends deadline for final selection for World T20 by 6 days following request from 'several of its members. Not England though.

England have picked their squad but not yet announced it. I think we can fairly well guess 14 of the players, so the question will be who is taken as the 15th player (most likely a batsman and perhaps one who bowls).

KP has absolutely zero chance of being involved. They wouldn't drop a man for messing them about and being a destructive influence, then say actually, having retired from limited overs internationals and made us work out how to replace you, we're now going to forgive you and work out how to get you back in!

Any international comeback will come after the next round of central contracts. If it happens at all, most likely when the Tests in India start.
Well, then we have absolutely zero chance of winning it.

Not zero - we have a good bowling line-up and a reasonable batting group. But of course we are a better T20 team with KP in it. But that simply isn't the point - England are right not to pick him at the moment.

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Post by ShankyCricket Thu 16 Aug 2012, 11:37 am

Shelsey93 wrote:
shankythebiggestengfan wrote:
Shelsey93 wrote:
skyeman wrote:Interesting . . . Cricketicc have extended the deadline for teams to submit their final 15 man squad for the World T20 until 24th August.


ICC extends deadline for final selection for World T20 by 6 days following request from 'several of its members. Not England though.

England have picked their squad but not yet announced it. I think we can fairly well guess 14 of the players, so the question will be who is taken as the 15th player (most likely a batsman and perhaps one who bowls).

KP has absolutely zero chance of being involved. They wouldn't drop a man for messing them about and being a destructive influence, then say actually, having retired from limited overs internationals and made us work out how to replace you, we're now going to forgive you and work out how to get you back in!

Any international comeback will come after the next round of central contracts. If it happens at all, most likely when the Tests in India start.
Well, then we have absolutely zero chance of winning it.

Not zero - we have a good bowling line-up and a reasonable batting group. But of course we are a better T20 team with KP in it. But that simply isn't the point - England are right not to pick him at the moment.
Reasonable batting line up? Morgan aside, how many of them can play spin? If we are expecting Hales, Bairstow and Buttler to win us the World T20 then thats a tad unrealistic IMO. And we are right not to pick him? Even though he has apologised and and retracted all his IPL demands? Just seems like an ego problem with the ECB.

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Post by msp83 Thu 16 Aug 2012, 7:32 pm

Other than Morgan and perhaps Bairstow, who else in England cricket possess the ability to score consistently well at a strike rate over 125? There is only one man, and that man is the unwanted, discarded, humiliated Kevin Pietersen. England has a superb bowler in Graeme Swann who is pretty good at T-20s as well, and conditions should be favorable to him, but he and Morgan alone can't really win it for them.

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Post by msp83 Thu 16 Aug 2012, 7:35 pm

With an inform Kevin Pietersen in there, England could have come into contention if most of the other parts also clicked along with him, but with him being cast aside England squad has to work at 5000% to be anywhere near a chance to be even in contention. Remember there is no Paul Collingwood or Ryan Sidebottom either.

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Post by Guest Thu 16 Aug 2012, 7:40 pm

KP wont be there guys come on......they announce the squad in next few days....there isnt enough time for them all to kiss and make up..

move on

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Post by msp83 Thu 16 Aug 2012, 7:51 pm

Pietersen's international career seems almost over anyways. But England would be a better side because of that isn't it?

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Post by Guest Thu 16 Aug 2012, 7:52 pm

yes we would be better with him...

however he wont be there!!

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 16 Aug 2012, 7:54 pm

I think they need to bring him back, go out on the lash for a team building excercsie and tie him up naked to trafalger square- Then the balance will be restored

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Post by Guest Thu 16 Aug 2012, 7:56 pm

i cant see him playing for england for the forseeable if ever again.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 16 Aug 2012, 7:58 pm

CF i am sure he will be back next test seroes

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Post by Guest Thu 16 Aug 2012, 7:58 pm

Laugh no he wont

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 16 Aug 2012, 7:59 pm

do you have inside info CF

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Post by Guest Thu 16 Aug 2012, 8:00 pm

no im just being realisitc and listening to everything thats being said....

obviously if you think he is coming back, you must be right, but i personally cant see him playing for england again.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 16 Aug 2012, 8:02 pm

why must i be right. I am hoping they can sort this out. I am basing this on common sense and good will! at least pettersson is apoligising- its a starting point

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Post by Guest Thu 16 Aug 2012, 8:04 pm

yes but the time he took to apolgise considering he denied it, will make things worse...the players dont trust him, if you listened to interviews during the week, the players are happy that he isnt playing..the fact that he slagged off flower and strauss to the saffers make things even worse and to be honest the IPL thing is dreadful as well...got in contact with delhi before the ECB is just plain stupidness....

mysti i hope he comes back as he is a very good player, however if he dosent then it isnt the end of the world as clearly the players dont trust him anymore and all these events have made his position in the side and the changing room untenable.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 16 Aug 2012, 8:08 pm

I think if they cant sort this out. He will come back but only once strauss has gone. I am hoping they can all just get together and deal with the issues. All of them can lay in to KP on a personal level, we dont need apoligies on twitter or youtube- He needs to sort it out with the players in the team, thats the important thing here.

And then let the players decide!

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Post by JDizzle Thu 16 Aug 2012, 8:26 pm

I'm putting my cards on the table and making a bold prediction; Kevin Pietersen will be in our T20 squad for the WC. Watch him never play for England again now...

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Post by ShankyCricket Thu 16 Aug 2012, 8:32 pm

It might not be the "end of the world" in Test cricket though we'd be obviously weakened rather seriously.
But without him in the World T20, I reckon Bangladesh have a better chance of winning the WT20 than us. The batting line up just isnt good enough.

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Post by JDizzle Thu 16 Aug 2012, 8:35 pm

To say we can't win in it without KP is slightly exaggerating for me, as T20 is such a lottery it is very much on the day and it only takes one player to have a big tournament and you can go far and beat anyone on the way. But if there is one format where he is clearly our best player it is T20 and it is in this format where his absence weakens us most.

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