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England World T20 squad

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guildfordbat
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Mike Selig
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Post by ShankyCricket Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:07 am

First topic message reminder :

At the moment, I'd go with

Craig Kieswetter(wk)
Luke Wright
Ben Stokes
Eoin Morgan
Jonny Bairstow
Jos Buttler
Samit Patel
Stuart Broad(c)
Graeme Swann
Danny Briggs/Steven Finn
Jade Dernbach


Steven Finn/Danny Briggs
Stuart Meaker
Ravi Bopara
Chris Nash


I will write a blog about England's limited overs sides and will explain more in detail there.

Thoughts?

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:57 pm

Luke Wright has always had a lot of criticism from fans, but he played an important part in our T20 triumph. IIRC he scored useful runs against WI, Ireland, NZ (pretty much the only times he batted) and chipped in with a wicket in the final when he was called on to bowl an over. He also fielded rather well (and picked up a run out in the final with a pin-point throw to the keeper from long-on). As a n°6 who can whack a few, bowl the odd over, and with his fielding I think he's not that bad an option.

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:58 pm

Our Super Eights consist of Sri Lanka, West Indies and New Zealand.

Expect SL and WI to go through.

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:59 pm

I like Wright, he'd be in my first choice XI for the tournament, certainly.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:00 pm

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Our Super Eights consist of Sri Lanka, West Indies and New Zealand.

Expect SL and WI to go through.

crikey that's even better than I'd hoped for, I'd be disappointed if we didn't win all three of those...

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:00 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:can't agree with that at all Fists, we're an excellent T20 side, have been for a while now (in fact the best in the world for a while now). KP's absence alone doesn't make us "pretty ordinary".

In those conditions, MFC? In England we are fine, but over there I'd say yes, we are pretty ordinary looking.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:01 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:can't agree with that at all Fists, we're an excellent T20 side, have been for a while now (in fact the best in the world for a while now). KP's absence alone doesn't make us "pretty ordinary".

In those conditions, MFC? In England we are fine, but over there I'd say yes, we are pretty ordinary looking.

won in India, won in the UAE, didn't play any in SL did we?

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:05 pm

I'm talking about on paper. By all means I'll give that squad chance to prove me wrong.

I can't wait for the tournament, I think it's a fabulous event, though it's a shame that our premier player and perhaps the premier player in world cricket won't be a part of it.

P.S. Get that China review up Wink

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Post by Mike Selig Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:07 pm

I would expect England to beat SL, but WI will be a tough proposition if their batting fires. Anything over 160 will be tough to chase given the Narine factor.

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Post by mystiroakey Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:08 pm

cook>>bell>>Lumb..

but what do we know!!!

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:09 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:
Fists of Fury wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:can't agree with that at all Fists, we're an excellent T20 side, have been for a while now (in fact the best in the world for a while now). KP's absence alone doesn't make us "pretty ordinary".

In those conditions, MFC? In England we are fine, but over there I'd say yes, we are pretty ordinary looking.

won in India, won in the UAE, didn't play any in SL did we?
The MoTM against India and MoTS in the UAE is not here. Wink

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:09 pm

I think SL could be a danger too, Mike. Jayawardene, Dilshan and Chandimal are all dangerous customers, as of course is Malinga with the ball. We will certainly need to be on our game to beat them.

The Windies, as you say, could depend on how their batting goes. Narine will be a huge player at this tournament, I'd imagine.

You can never discount NZ, either, though admittedly I'd be disappointed if we didn't beat them.

We could quite easily lose all 3, but realistically I'd back us to win 1 and lose 2.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:11 pm

mystiroakey wrote:cook>>bell>>Lumb..

but what do we know!!!

I don't think Cook is a T20 player mysti, sorry. Especially in these conditions you need your openers to blast off, something Cook isn't really capable of (fine player though he is). Bell instead of Lumb is more arguable, I'm guessing Lumb is in good form?

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:12 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:I think SL could be a danger too, Mike. Jayawardene, Dilshan and Chandimal are all dangerous customers, as of course is Malinga with the ball. We will certainly need to be on our game to beat them.

The Windies, as you say, could depend on how their batting goes. Narine will be a huge player at this tournament, I'd imagine.

You can never discount NZ, either, though admittedly I'd be disappointed if we didn't beat them.

We could quite easily lose all 3, but realistically I'd back us to win 1 and lose 2.
Agreed. We should beat NZ but not the other 2.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:13 pm

[quote="Fists of Fury"]I think SL could be a danger too, Mike. Jayawardene, Dilshan and Chandimal are all dangerous customers, as of course is Malinga with the ball. We will certainly need to be on our game to beat them.

The Windies, as you say, could depend on how their batting goes. Narine will be a huge player at this tournament, I'd imagine.

You can never discount NZ, either, though admittedly I'd be disappointed if we didn't beat them.

We could quite easily lose all 3, but realistically I'd back us to win 1 and lose 2.[/quote]

Oh the negativity Wink

Seriously though, SL's bowling is average (they've got one bowler) so I expect us to chase anything upto 160 fairly comfortably. WI rather depends on how well their batting fires, as Narine will do well in these conditions you think. NZ I'd be very disappointed if we lost to, we're stronger in all departments.

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Post by Mike Selig Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:16 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:I think SL could be a danger too, Mike. Jayawardene, Dilshan and Chandimal are all dangerous customers, as of course is Malinga with the ball. We will certainly need to be on our game to beat them.

Absolutely. But I think England start marginally as favourites for that one. Malinga aside, SL's bowling attack is rather average. In particular their spinners aren't all that, and so I would back England to get 150 at least. Dilshan I think if you bowl straight to he'll do something silly. Jayawardene is a quality player and an obvious dangerman.

If England lose to New-Zealand then they should be made to swim home.

For me, England-WI and England-SL could go either way, but you'd hope England win at least one.

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:17 pm

My XI

Kieswetter
Wright
Bopara
Morgan
Bairstow
Buttler
Patel
Broad
Swann
Briggs
Finn

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:18 pm

Yeah pretty much agree, though as we know T20 can be a total lottery.

I am feeling particularly negative of late, though. I think we present a far less formidable prospect to our opponents without KP, too. Alas.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:21 pm

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:My XI

Kieswetter
Wright
Bopara
Morgan
Bairstow
Buttler
Patel
Broad
Swann
Briggs
Finn

so you'd drop the bloke who scored 99 in the last game? Makes sense, esp. for Luke Wright who's never done anything at the top of the order for England (though I think he's a decent option at 6). Just looking at the squad England don't see Wright as an opener anyway, so it's irrelevant. I'd be surprised if England go in with three spinners too.

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:25 pm

As i have said, I really don't rate Hales against spin. Hope he proves me wrong as I am sure he will play.

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:26 pm

Mine:

Kieswetter
Hales
Bopara
Morgan
Bairstow
Wright
Buttler
Broad
Swann
Briggs
Finn

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:30 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:Mine:

Kieswetter
Hales
Bopara
Morgan
Bairstow
Wright
Buttler
Broad
Swann
Briggs
Finn

interesting Very Happy
I certainly think Wright and Bops can get through 4 overs between them (though if they can't you're in real trouble as Kieswetter is the next bowling option Very Happy) but I quite like Dernbach in T20s. Given I also want Finn and Broad, that unfortunately rules out Briggs (don't think we can go with Broad at 7 in T20s) so Patel has to come in as a second spin option, which brings us to the team I think England will play anyway: Kies Hales Bops Moggs Bairstow Buttler Patel Broad Swann Finn Dernbach

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:32 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:Mine:

Kieswetter
Hales
Bopara
Morgan
Bairstow
Wright
Buttler
Broad
Swann
Briggs
Finn
I'd go along with that thumbsup

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:35 pm

As good a T20 bowler as he is, I still feel Dernbach is too much of a lottery to be relied upon for a major tournament. Also I think we will need 2 specialist spinners. Patel is not a wicket taking option. Briggs looks good to me.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:39 pm

does Briggs bowl in PPs at all? If we only go in with two seamers at least one of the spinners will have to bowl in the PP you'd think, and Swann isn't that comfortable there (Patel has done so before I guess).

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Post by VTR Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:39 pm

Someone may have mentioned it but will IPL experience have a bearing? You look at our pool, the other teams have plenty, we have close to none.

Could be a huge factor, and the reason I expect Windies to do very well in the tournament.

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:41 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:does Briggs bowl in PPs at all? If we only go in with two seamers at least one of the spinners will have to bowl in the PP you'd think, and Swann isn't that comfortable there (Patel has done so before I guess).
Wright can do that. He can also bowl at the death. Cam White in the World T20 anyone? Ravi's cutters should prove useful too.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:43 pm

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:does Briggs bowl in PPs at all? If we only go in with two seamers at least one of the spinners will have to bowl in the PP you'd think, and Swann isn't that comfortable there (Patel has done so before I guess).
Wright can do that. He can also bowl at the death. Cam White in the World T20 anyone? Ravi's cutters should prove useful too.

Wright bowled a really good over in the T20 final (as I mentioned in a previous post) but not sure I'd trust him (or Bops) in a PP...

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Post by Shelsey93 Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:45 pm

Dernbach has bowled some good death bowling spells for us. I'm not convinced by him totally, but in T20 cricket I think he's worth his place - particularly as our frontline bowlers struggle with that.

To add to the England v Australia stuff, lets not forget that we didn't just beat Australia recently, we absolutely hammered them. The only player that wasn't there was Dave Hussey. I see no reason why England would be worse than Australia in Asia, and the seam bowling is certainly much better.

West Indies? At some point they'll make a massive total, but they'll also flop enough to rule them out of contention too. Gayle aside I think the other batsmen can be managed by a good bowling attack - which NZ weren't in the recent series. Narine should come into it, definitely.

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Post by Shelsey93 Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:46 pm

VTR wrote:Someone may have mentioned it but will IPL experience have a bearing? You look at our pool, the other teams have plenty, we have close to none.

Could be a huge factor, and the reason I expect Windies to do very well in the tournament.

No, don't think it'll be a factor at all. The IPL is a pretty odd competition - a lot of very top players, but also a lot of very average players. Here you won't encounter so much very average stuff, so the matches will be completely different.


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Post by Mike Selig Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:47 pm

Briggs can do OK in a PP, so can Swann.

I would tend to think 2 spinners is a must, but the stumbling block is I don't rate Wright.

On the whole I think Patel can do a job in T20, he won't set the world alight but like Yardy he'll generally keep things tight and pick up the odd wicket.

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:48 pm

I do think Dernbach is worth his place based on his performances but a guy with his inconsistency for a major tournament? I am not so sure.

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:50 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Briggs can do OK in a PP, so can Swann.

I would tend to think 2 spinners is a must, but the stumbling block is I don't rate Wright.

On the whole I think Patel can do a job in T20, he won't set the world alight but like Yardy he'll generally keep things tight and pick up the odd wicket.
If you don't rate Wright, Patel can replace him. 3 spinners not a bad idea either. The pitches in SL for Ltd Overs matches have been very very helpful to spin of late.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:51 pm

Dernbach actually has a very good T20 record: 11 wickets at a shade under 20 with an eco rate of 6.7 (means he'll usually get 1/2-27 off four overs). I'd be happy with that, and I don't ever recall him being really slapped about (like, 9 runs per over or more) in a T20?

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Post by Mike Selig Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:51 pm

Shelsey93 wrote:
To add to the England v Australia stuff, lets not forget that we didn't just beat Australia recently, we absolutely hammered them. The only player that wasn't there was Dave Hussey. I see no reason why England would be worse than Australia in Asia, and the seam bowling is certainly much better.

Mike Hussey. Did Cam White play in England? I think he'll be the key batsman for Australia TBH.

Another of Australia's problems is where do you bat Wade? I imagine Australia will go for:
Warner
Watson
Bailey
D. Hussey
White
M. Hussey
Wade
Christian
Hogg
McKay
Starc/Cummins

It's a good batting side, but the bowling looks distinctly average.

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Post by Mike Selig Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:52 pm

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:
Mike Selig wrote:Briggs can do OK in a PP, so can Swann.

I would tend to think 2 spinners is a must, but the stumbling block is I don't rate Wright.

On the whole I think Patel can do a job in T20, he won't set the world alight but like Yardy he'll generally keep things tight and pick up the odd wicket.
If you don't rate Wright, Patel can replace him. 3 spinners not a bad idea either. The pitches in SL for Ltd Overs matches have been very very helpful to spin of late.

I wouldn't mind 3 spinners TBH. Or 2 spinners, and then a combo of Patel/Bopara (who I think will prove very useful taking pace off the ball).

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Post by Gregers Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:53 pm

Before anyone else has a go at Lukey he is Sussex's top scorer in t20 this year. On form he should go

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:54 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Dernbach actually has a very good T20 record: 11 wickets at a shade under 20 with an eco rate of 6.7 (means he'll usually get 1/2-27 off four overs). I'd be happy with that, and I don't ever recall him being really slapped about (like, 9 runs per over or more) in a T20?
I know but I am not sure I like the idea of judging a player based on a handful of T20 matches. I'd also consider his ODI performances.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:54 pm

do you think Aus will go in with just the three specialist bowlers Mike? Seems a tad risky to me. Yes, Watson should do well, but let's not forget how England targeted him in the T20 final, and your only real back-up option is Dave Hussey (who I actually expect to do a fair bit of bowling for Aus). Would think a proper bowler in place of Christian could be a better option.

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:55 pm

Australia's best side doesn't include Bailey IMO.

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Post by Shelsey93 Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:56 pm

I don't rate Cameron White that highly to be honest. Had a good run in 2009, but has flattered to deceive for so much of his international career.

Also another who profits from the strange workings of the IPL - you can see off the 1 or 2 strike bowlers that a team has, and play the other rubbish stuff easily. Different in the World T20.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:57 pm

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:Dernbach actually has a very good T20 record: 11 wickets at a shade under 20 with an eco rate of 6.7 (means he'll usually get 1/2-27 off four overs). I'd be happy with that, and I don't ever recall him being really slapped about (like, 9 runs per over or more) in a T20?
I know but I am not sure I like the idea of judging a player based on a handful of T20 matches. I'd also consider his ODI performances.

ODIs and T20s are very different for me. An eco rate of under 7 is pretty good in T20, but fairly rubbish in ODIs.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:58 pm

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Australia's best side doesn't include Bailey IMO.

isn't he their captain though? kind of suggests he'll play...

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Post by Mike Selig Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:00 pm

Gregers wrote:Before anyone else has a go at Lukey he is Sussex's top scorer in t20 this year. On form he should go

Scored mainly at the top of the order, where he is unlikely to bat for England, and against medium-pace bowling which he is unlikely to face even if he batted at the top of the order (it will be pace and spin - the two things he can't play that well).

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Post by VTR Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:00 pm

Shelsey93 wrote:
VTR wrote:Someone may have mentioned it but will IPL experience have a bearing? You look at our pool, the other teams have plenty, we have close to none.

Could be a huge factor, and the reason I expect Windies to do very well in the tournament.

No, don't think it'll be a factor at all. The IPL is a pretty odd competition - a lot of very top players, but also a lot of very average players. Here you won't encounter so much very average stuff, so the matches will be completely different.


Doh I thought it was in India not Sri Lanka! Agree in that case (and disagree with my own original point!)

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:01 pm

White is a very good one day international player. Was a bit out of form but I see him doing well. Assuming that they are not willing to drop the captain, I'd go with :

Watson
Warner
M Hussey
D Hussey
White
Wade
Maxwell
Bailey
McKay
Hogg
Cummins/Starc

ShankyCricket

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Post by Mike Selig Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:01 pm

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Australia's best side doesn't include Bailey IMO.

I agree, but he'll play because he's captain.

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Post by Gregers Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:01 pm

Luke is pretty damn good against pace, spin less so but he is a lot better this season. He should open in any case, just let him hit out if it comes off it does if not then we have others who can carry on the hitting

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:04 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:
shankythebiggestengfan wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:Dernbach actually has a very good T20 record: 11 wickets at a shade under 20 with an eco rate of 6.7 (means he'll usually get 1/2-27 off four overs). I'd be happy with that, and I don't ever recall him being really slapped about (like, 9 runs per over or more) in a T20?
I know but I am not sure I like the idea of judging a player based on a handful of T20 matches. I'd also consider his ODI performances.

ODIs and T20s are very different for me. An eco rate of under 7 is pretty good in T20, but fairly rubbish in ODIs.
I know. I know. But I was not talking about his statistics. More to do with his temperament and how he has lost the plot on so many occasions against good batsmen whenever they have gone after him. Can't really argue if he plays, tbh given his T20 record but I am still not quite convinced. Would prefer the extra spinner.

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Post by Shelsey93 Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:07 pm

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Australia's best side doesn't include Bailey IMO.

I think making him skipper was a ridiculous decision from Inverarity, who I tend to think tries to be too clever too often - too much chopping and changing, best players not always selected and stupid decisions like that one. But now he's done it he has to play and I guess he'll bat three:

Warner, Watson, Bailey, M. Hussey, D. Hussey, Wade, Maxwell, Hogg, McKay, Starc, Cummins would be my line-up.

But the squad is really a rubbish selection. Only 4 seamers, including no Harris? (in my view the best Australian bowler in all forms of the game) Hilfenhaus included? (T20 not his best suit)

There have to be questions about Bailey (is he good enough to command a place in the side?), White (has he had enough chances?), Christian (overrated?), Starc (can he hold his nerve at this level?), Hilfenhaus (T20 bowler?), Cummins (can he stay on the field?), Hogg (a tournament too far?) and Doherty (a threat to the best?).. Too many questions for me.


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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:07 pm

Gregers wrote:Luke is pretty damn good against pace, spin less so but he is a lot better this season. He should open in any case, just let him hit out if it comes off it does if not then we have others who can carry on the hitting
Which he isn't. I agree with Mike's assessment of his batting. What I do like about him though is his temperament.

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