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England World T20 squad

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guildfordbat
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Post by ShankyCricket Sat 2 Jun - 22:07

First topic message reminder :

At the moment, I'd go with

Craig Kieswetter(wk)
Luke Wright
Ben Stokes
Eoin Morgan
Jonny Bairstow
Jos Buttler
Samit Patel
Stuart Broad(c)
Graeme Swann
Danny Briggs/Steven Finn
Jade Dernbach


Steven Finn/Danny Briggs
Stuart Meaker
Ravi Bopara
Chris Nash


I will write a blog about England's limited overs sides and will explain more in detail there.

Thoughts?

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Post by ShankyCricket Thu 16 Aug - 20:38

Well, if KP is not in the side because of a rift with a player who should not be in the side anyway, then its an awfully depressing day for cricket.

Which deluded idiot would want an average opening batsman like Strauss over a world class player like KP?

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Post by Hibbz Thu 16 Aug - 20:38

I think it's less important to have him back for the T20 series (much as I'd like him to be) because with or without KP I reckon Bangladesh have a better chance of success.

T20 in the sub continent is not going to suit England at all.

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Post by ShankyCricket Thu 16 Aug - 20:41

Well, if this World T20 was not held in Asia, then maybe I'd have given us an outside chance. Just dont see who is going to score runs against spinners on slow and low pitches in SL.

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Post by Hibbz Thu 16 Aug - 20:45

But Shanky don't you see if they don't have KP they'll cruise through with unity and team spirit.

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Post by ShankyCricket Thu 16 Aug - 20:46

We did beat India at Kolkata on a turning pitch in the one off T20 last year WITH KP. KP was the MoM in that match.
We also won the T20 series in the UAE against Pak and no prizes for guessing who the Man of the Series was. About time we realise the importance of KP rather than just saying "Oh its a team game. There are other players blah blah blah".

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Post by ShankyCricket Thu 16 Aug - 20:48

Hibbz wrote:But Shanky don't you see if they don't have KP they'll cruise through with unity and team spirit.
Laugh
Is he a batsman or a bowler?

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Post by Hibbz Thu 16 Aug - 20:53

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:We did beat India at Kolkata on a turning pitch in the one off T20 last year WITH KP. KP was the MoM in that match.
We also won the T20 series in the UAE against Pak and no prizes for guessing who the Man of the Series was. About time we realise the importance of KP rather than just saying "Oh its a team game. There are other players blah blah blah".

I think the ECB will realise it soon enough but I'm very doubtful if they'll admit it ever.

Kevin has been more reticent already than I thought he would (or than I would in the same situation I'd think) and it still hasn't been enough.

Must be pretty close to giving them the two fingered salute and heading off to earn some real big dollars and some real adulation in the IPL.

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Post by Hibbz Thu 16 Aug - 20:54

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:
Hibbz wrote:But Shanky don't you see if they don't have KP they'll cruise through with unity and team spirit.
Laugh
Is he a batsman or a bowler?

I'm pretty sure he's the bloke that starts the sing-along on the plane home once you've been knocked out in the early stages.

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Post by JDizzle Thu 16 Aug - 21:10

It's still not as bizarre as Australia claiming they picked Steve Smith for an Ashes Test because "he made the team laugh". Very Happy

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Post by chrisss Fri 17 Aug - 17:47

Is Kieswetter's place safe? Since the t20 world cup, he's made scores of 6,16,4,18,58*,10,12,14, 31,17 and 3, so hardly a bunch of great performances.

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Post by skyeman Fri 17 Aug - 19:16

chrisss wrote:Is Kieswetter's place safe? Since the t20 world cup, he's made scores of 6,16,4,18,58*,10,12,14, 31,17 and 3, so hardly a bunch of great performances.

Just got a fantastic ton for the Lions.

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Post by Shelsey93 Fri 17 Aug - 20:37

chrisss wrote:Is Kieswetter's place safe? Since the t20 world cup, he's made scores of 6,16,4,18,58*,10,12,14, 31,17 and 3, so hardly a bunch of great performances.

Did little wrong in the recent limited overs matches against WIndies and Australia - kept well enough barring a bad missed stumping, and was rarely needed with the bat. He also seems to be in pretty good form.

The job of the openers is to get us off to a start, as they did in West Indies. Overall figures needn't be spectacular but if they get 15 off 7 every match they'll have done well.

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Post by chrisss Fri 17 Aug - 22:25

skyeman wrote:
chrisss wrote:Is Kieswetter's place safe? Since the t20 world cup, he's made scores of 6,16,4,18,58*,10,12,14, 31,17 and 3, so hardly a bunch of great performances.

Just got a fantastic ton for the Lions.

But how are first class runs relevant to whether he should be in the t20 team?

Shelsey93 wrote:
chrisss wrote:Is Kieswetter's place safe? Since the t20 world cup, he's made scores of 6,16,4,18,58*,10,12,14, 31,17 and 3, so hardly a bunch of great performances.

Did little wrong in the recent limited overs matches against WIndies and Australia - kept well enough barring a bad missed stumping, and was rarely needed with the bat. He also seems to be in pretty good form.

The job of the openers is to get us off to a start, as they did in West Indies. Overall figures needn't be spectacular but if they get 15 off 7 every match they'll have done well.

Kieswetter doesn't score quickly though- he has a strike rate of 113 overall, and a strike rate of 110 in the last 2 years. And again, how are the recent ODIs relevant? Cook and Trott score lots of runs in ODIs, but they're not going to picked for the t20 team are they?

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Post by Shelsey93 Tue 21 Aug - 9:52

Squad has been named, including a couple of surprises. Michael Lumb is picked as the spare batsman, Luke Wright is named rather than James Anderson and Danny Briggs rather than James Tredwell.

Full squad: Broad (c), Bairstow, Bopara, Bresnan, Briggs, Buttler, Dernbach, Finn, Hales, Kieswetter, Lumb, Morgan, Patel, Swann, Wright




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Post by Fists of Fury Tue 21 Aug - 9:55

Pretty average team. They'll be lucky to get past the quarter finals, in honesty.

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue 21 Aug - 9:55

India big favourites, for me.

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Post by Shelsey93 Tue 21 Aug - 9:59

Fists of Fury wrote:Pretty average team. They'll be lucky to get past the quarter finals, in honesty.

Apart from their aren't any quarters Very Happy

As I said in an earlier post I have England amongst the favourites (because of the bowling and recent T20 record more than anything), but India, Pakistan (if it turns) and Sri Lanka are also up there. Outside shots for South Africa (not the best T20 side).

I don't think Australia or West Indies have what it takes to win this tournament.

New Zealand are rank outsiders for me - less chance than Bangladesh.

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue 21 Aug - 10:01

You know what I mean. Make it out of the group (maybe) and then fail.

Our bowling? Looks very poor to me, I imagine the sub-continent batsmen will give us a pasting, perhaps Finn being the exception. Swann can usually hold his own, but I have little faith in the others.

Likewise the batting. Who, Morgan aside, is going to make big scores at a quick rate?

We shouldn't be considered amongst the favourites based on that squad, in my view.

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 21 Aug - 10:02

Shelsey93 wrote:
Fists of Fury wrote:Pretty average team. They'll be lucky to get past the quarter finals, in honesty.

Apart from their aren't any quarters Very Happy

As I said in an earlier post I have England amongst the favourites (because of the bowling and recent T20 record more than anything), but India, Pakistan (if it turns) and Sri Lanka are also up there. Outside shots for South Africa (not the best T20 side).

I don't think Australia or West Indies have what it takes to win this tournament.

New Zealand are rank outsiders for me - less chance than Bangladesh.

Sad but true Sad
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Post by Shelsey93 Tue 21 Aug - 10:06

Fists of Fury wrote:You know what I mean. Make it out of the group (maybe) and then fail.

Our bowling? Looks very poor to me, I imagine the sub-continent batsmen will give us a pasting, perhaps Finn being the exception. Swann can usually hold his own, but I have little faith in the others.

Likewise the batting. Who, Morgan aside, is going to make big scores at a quick rate?

We shouldn't be considered amongst the favourites based on that squad, in my view.

I think that as a bowling group the 5 that will take to the field - Broad, Finn, Dernbach, Swann and Patel probably are better than most attacks around the world. India have top batting which puts them as amongst the top favourites, but their seam bowling is pretty woeful and I can't see a big difference between Ashwin/ Jadeja and Swann/ Patel. Similarly SL struggle for bowlers Malinga aside.

In terms of batting I think people would have said similar things in 2010 - Lumb, Kieswetter, KP, Collingwood, Morgan, Wright, but in the event it did the job. An in-form Morgan is a real threat, whilst I think (I know I'm in the minority here) that Bopara can come good too. And then we have Bairstow and Buttler. As some have said its a bit of a waste not having Prior, but I don't see what else could be done given how mediocre his England one-day record is.

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Post by Mike Selig Tue 21 Aug - 10:08

It's a pretty well balanced side. You've got the openers whose job will be to maximise the PP (50/1 or 2 will do nicely, but it's crucial to score as this will typically be the best time for batting). Bopara will play 3 and his role will be to anchor the innings. Morgan at 4 is the key, he'll need to play very well if England are to get close to retaining their title. Then you've got the finishers in Bairstow, Buttler and Patel. The bowling attack is balanced: Finn to be aggressive up front, Swann and Patel/Briggs is a decent spin combination and plenty of options for the death overs.

I think West Indies will do pretty well TBH - explosive batting and arguably the form spinner (with Ajmal) in Narine who'll be tough in these conditions. I can't see them winning, because their batting will have a shocker in there somewhere, but I can see them getting to the semi-finals quite comfortably, along with England, India and one of Pakistan (question marks over their batting?), Sri Lanka (still overreliant on very few players, bowling fairly average) or South Africa (there's nothing wrong with their team, but they never seem to do well).

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue 21 Aug - 10:09

I'd say that Jadeja and Ashwin are a heck of a lot more difficult to knock out of the park than Patel, who is a pretty ordinary bowler.

Bopara can come good, absolutely, but he rarely scores in excess of a 100 strike rate. He is good for a run a ball 30.

The key with that batting line-up when we won it was the pitches. Each of those batsmen thrive on striking through the line of the ball, and the conditions suited that perfectly. The sub-continent will likely prove different, so the likes of Kieswetter, Lumb and Wright may struggle for success, I think.

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Post by Shelsey93 Tue 21 Aug - 10:20

Fists of Fury wrote:I'd say that Jadeja and Ashwin are a heck of a lot more difficult to knock out of the park than Patel, who is a pretty ordinary bowler.

Bopara can come good, absolutely, but he rarely scores in excess of a 100 strike rate. He is good for a run a ball 30.

The key with that batting line-up when we won it was the pitches. Each of those batsmen thrive on striking through the line of the ball, and the conditions suited that perfectly. The sub-continent will likely prove different, so the likes of Kieswetter, Lumb and Wright may struggle for success, I think.

I can't see Lumb or Wright playing unless there is an injury.

As Mike says with Pakistan the batting is a big question mark, and so they really want low-scoring games where Ajmal and Afridi can win it for them (I notice in a typical bit of Pakistan selection Rehman's been left out Rolling Eyes ). With Sri Lanka they are indeed over-reliant on their (very strong) top-order and Malinga. India struggle for seam bowlers.

As regards South Africa they lack spinners, and batting consistency - having said that Levi, Amla, Kallis, de Villiers, Duminy, du Plessis, A. Morkel, Botha, Peterson, Steyn, Morkel should be a good team when you look at it on paper.

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Post by Shelsey93 Tue 21 Aug - 10:21

Fists of Fury wrote:I'd say that Jadeja and Ashwin are a heck of a lot more difficult to knock out of the park than Patel, who is a pretty ordinary bowler.

Ashwin certainly, but an on-form Swann is in the same class. Jadeja is a bit of an enigma - looked great against us, and has had the odd other good game, but in his last 10-15 ODIs has been very, very ordinary.

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue 21 Aug - 10:23

Seriously do you think England have a better side than Australia?

Aussie line up : Watson Warner Mike Hussey David Hussey, etc

England : Hales Kieswetter Bopara Morgan


I know who I'd rather have.

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue 21 Aug - 10:24

Jadeja is not in the India squad, guys.

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Post by Mike Selig Tue 21 Aug - 10:25

Shelsey93 wrote: I notice in a typical bit of Pakistan selection Rehman's been left out Rolling Eyes

Has he? How utterly daft.

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Post by mystiroakey Tue 21 Aug - 10:26

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Seriously do you think England have a better side than Australia?

Aussie line up : Watson Warner Mike Hussey David Hussey, etc

England : Hales Kieswetter Bopara Morgan


I know who I'd rather have.


Not that side... id rather stick taylor bairstow kp mogs and even cook!!

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue 21 Aug - 10:26

I agree with everything that has Fists said.

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Post by Shelsey93 Tue 21 Aug - 10:31

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Seriously do you think England have a better side than Australia?

Aussie line up : Watson Warner Mike Hussey David Hussey, etc

England : Hales Kieswetter Bopara Morgan


I know who I'd rather have.

Yes I do. Why? The best spinner Australia can find is Brad Hogg, the pace attack will struggle in Asia, they seem to get badly stuck when the openers get out. Of course, you have selected England's top 4 and Australia's 4 best.

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Post by mystiroakey Tue 21 Aug - 10:32

I cant deal with that team...

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Post by Mike Selig Tue 21 Aug - 10:33

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Seriously do you think England have a better side than Australia?

Aussie line up : Watson Warner Mike Hussey David Hussey, etc

England : Hales Kieswetter Bopara Morgan


I know who I'd rather have.

I would say England have a more balanced side.

Australia have serious power at the top of the order, and fantastic players in the Husseys lower down. White makes a welcome return and based on his IPL form is going to be a key player. Smith's omission IMO is a mistake, he brings quick runs at 7, a few overs, and absolute brilliance in the field.

However Warner is not a good player of spin (and I suspect we'll see spin in the first 2 overs in almost half the matches, and in the first 6 in 80% at least), and I don't think much of Bailey.

Australia's main problem is their bowling: Christian (who will probably bat 7) is a very average bowler. Hilfenhaus is a nice pace for those pitches. Cummins is exciting but could go all over the place. Starc I think could do ok. But the real worry has to be the spinners - when your best spinner is a 40year old Brad Hogg (who may well do ok) you know you're struggling. Doherty and D. Hussey...?

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Post by mystiroakey Tue 21 Aug - 10:33

Btw what ever we put out we will win v Oz. I just really truely want cook in and as captain, with KP, bairstow and mogs..(maybe taylor- i have seen alot of him when he really goes at it- he has ever shot in the game)

That would crush any team

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue 21 Aug - 10:33

I think Aus have a stronger batting unit than us, certainly.

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue 21 Aug - 10:34

Shelsey93 wrote:
Fists of Fury wrote:You know what I mean. Make it out of the group (maybe) and then fail.

Our bowling? Looks very poor to me, I imagine the sub-continent batsmen will give us a pasting, perhaps Finn being the exception. Swann can usually hold his own, but I have little faith in the others.

Likewise the batting. Who, Morgan aside, is going to make big scores at a quick rate?

We shouldn't be considered amongst the favourites based on that squad, in my view.

I think that as a bowling group the 5 that will take to the field - Broad, Finn, Dernbach, Swann and Patel probably are better than most attacks around the world. India have top batting which puts them as amongst the top favourites, but their seam bowling is pretty woeful and I can't see a big difference between Ashwin/ Jadeja and Swann/ Patel. Similarly SL struggle for bowlers Malinga aside.

In terms of batting I think people would have said similar things in 2010 - Lumb, Kieswetter, KP, Collingwood, Morgan, Wright, but in the event it did the job. An in-form Morgan is a real threat, whilst I think (I know I'm in the minority here) that Bopara can come good too. And then we have Bairstow and Buttler. As some have said its a bit of a waste not having Prior, but I don't see what else could be done given how mediocre his England one-day record is.
And we all know who was the chief contributor?
Hales is nowhere near the same class, I'm afraid and is decidedly average against spin bowling. The batting basically rests on Morgan and Bairstow.

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Post by mystiroakey Tue 21 Aug - 10:35

t20 specialists yawwwnnn.


It doesnt exist yet(the game hasnt been around long enough to get any first system yet). Get a high quality 50 over side together and you will win - as long as every one is a team player and reacts to the situation quickly!

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue 21 Aug - 10:36

Shelsey93 wrote:
shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Seriously do you think England have a better side than Australia?

Aussie line up : Watson Warner Mike Hussey David Hussey, etc

England : Hales Kieswetter Bopara Morgan


I know who I'd rather have.

Yes I do. Why? The best spinner Australia can find is Brad Hogg, the pace attack will struggle in Asia, they seem to get badly stuck when the openers get out. Of course, you have selected England's top 4 and Australia's 4 best.
I think they will be Australia' top 4 too? Headscratch

Anyways, its the batsmen who win matches in T20. Our batting looks very very average to me. On those pitches, I'd say even Pakistan have a stronger line up.

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Post by mystiroakey Tue 21 Aug - 10:37

Pakistan are the best team on there day out there!

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Post by Mike Selig Tue 21 Aug - 10:38

Fists of Fury wrote:
Bopara can come good, absolutely, but he rarely scores in excess of a 100 strike rate. He is good for a run a ball 30.

Just picking up on this, I would say that is fine from Bopara. England should be aiming for 50 in the PP, 50 in the "middle 8" (which is where Bopara will be hoped to play his run-a-ball 30) and 50-60 in the last 6 with Morgan, Bairstow, Buttler coming to the party.

50/2 off 6 (both openers out)
100/3 off 14 (Bopara out - Morgan on 20 not out, having played himself in nicely)
160/6 off 20 (Morgan smashes it around with help from the finishers)

I would back England to defend 160.

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Post by Mike Selig Tue 21 Aug - 10:39

mystiroakey wrote:t20 specialists yawwwnnn.


It doesnt exist yet(the game hasnt been around long enough to get any first system yet). Get a high quality 50 over side together and you will win - as long as every one is a team player and reacts to the situation quickly!

Oh mysti... Do we want to start the whole should Cook be playing T20 thing again? Hug

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue 21 Aug - 10:40

I quite like the squad. As people have said reallistically there's no way KP was going to be picked for this: with his retirement from limited overs cricket earlier this summer followed by his latest - ahem - misdemeanours, there was too much ground to bridge for this one, nor do I think he should be forgiven so quickly.

I assume Lumb has been making runs recently for Notts, hence the recall? My worry with him is that he's a poor player of spin (but he won't be in the first choice side anyway). Hales and Kieswetter is a good opening partnership, Bopara has done well over the last year and a bit in limited overs cricket, Morgan is a fantastic T20 player, and in Bairstow, Buttler and Patel we have the firepower to finish the innings well.

Then the bowling, which let's be honest is England's strength. Swann and Patel/Briggs is a pretty good spin combination, while with Finn they have pace, Dernbach gives the variations and is a very fine T20 bowler, as is Broad. Teams will struggle to post big scores against that bowling attack you feel.

I think we'll make the semis at least, and after that anything's possible.

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Post by mystiroakey Tue 21 Aug - 10:42

Mike Selig wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:t20 specialists yawwwnnn.


It doesnt exist yet(the game hasnt been around long enough to get any first system yet). Get a high quality 50 over side together and you will win - as long as every one is a team player and reacts to the situation quickly!

Oh mysti... Do we want to start the whole should Cook be playing T20 thing again? Hug

i need to keep shouting it from the roof tops!!! I just want our odi side to do it!!! Cook is the main man at the moment(as a captain)

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue 21 Aug - 10:42

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:
Shelsey93 wrote:
shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Seriously do you think England have a better side than Australia?

Aussie line up : Watson Warner Mike Hussey David Hussey, etc

England : Hales Kieswetter Bopara Morgan


I know who I'd rather have.

Yes I do. Why? The best spinner Australia can find is Brad Hogg, the pace attack will struggle in Asia, they seem to get badly stuck when the openers get out. Of course, you have selected England's top 4 and Australia's 4 best.
I think they will be Australia' top 4 too? Headscratch

Anyways, its the batsmen who win matches in T20. Our batting looks very very average to me. On those pitches, I'd say even Pakistan have a stronger line up.

I'd be very surprised if both Husseys are in Australia's top 4. Plus, you kept going on a while ago about how rubbish David Hussey is against spin, so surely that rules him out? Pakistan are great on their day, but don't think they'll be consistent enough overall.

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue 21 Aug - 10:42

I think scoring 160 will be our problem, Mike. As shanky says Hales is far too hit and miss, and looks so uncomfortable against spin. Likewise, Lumb and Kieswetter succeed more where they can hit through the line - I envisage them getting frustrated at the ball not coming on to the bat as they'd like before inevitably having a slog and getting out.

Ravi should do well without being exceptional, given his wristy style, and Morgan as usual should succeed. I'm yet to be convinced of Bairstow and Buttler's quality against good spin bowling.

I just think that, whilst we have plenty of potential, we are a pretty ordinary side on the face of things.

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Post by mystiroakey Tue 21 Aug - 10:44

Anyway i take it the side has been picked!! so i will start concentrating on that!

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue 21 Aug - 10:45

I don't intend to discuss the KP issue over here but surely at least Bell should have been picked over Lumb?

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue 21 Aug - 10:46

can't agree with that at all Fists, we're an excellent T20 side, have been for a while now (in fact the best in the world for a while now). KP's absence alone doesn't make us "pretty ordinary".

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Post by guildfordbat Tue 21 Aug - 10:53

Shelsey93 wrote:

I can't see Lumb or Wright playing unless there is an injury ....


Pretty much agree with that.

No issue with Lumb being there as back up.

However, I have concerns over Wright's selection. The selectors seem to view him as almost having the X-factor but not quite. Sort of a poor man's Flintoff. Like Shelsey, I can only see him playing in the event of injury or, perhaps, desperation. Even then, I don't see him being an automatic replacement for anyone and feel he would disrupt the balance of the team. A mistaken and rather wasteful squad place in my view.

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Post by Mike Selig Tue 21 Aug - 10:54

Fists of Fury wrote:I think scoring 160 will be our problem, Mike.

I've outlined how I think England will try to get there. I don't think it's unrealistic. My worry would be scoring 50 in the PP if sides open up with spin. And scoring 50 in the middle without losing too many wickets, this is where Bopara and Morgan will be key. If England have plenty of wickets in hand going into the last 6, I don't think 10 an over will be too much of a problem.

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Post by Mike Selig Tue 21 Aug - 10:56

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:[...] surely at least Bell should have been picked over Lumb?

I would tend to agree. But Bell hasn't been in very good form against SA has he? Although he did well in the ODIs earlier in the summer.

I don't comprehend the Wright selection, but then I think he's hopeless (at this level, he is clearly a very good county T20 player).

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