SA vs England 3rd test: Build up, announcements and match thread.

by **Biltong** Wed 20 Jun 2012, 11:08 am

First topic message reminder :

England

A Goode; C Ashton, J Joseph, M Tuilagi, B Foden; T Flood, D Care; A Corbisiero, D Hartley (capt), D Cole, T Palmer, G Parling, T Johnson, J Haskell, T Waldrom.

Replacements : L Mears, J Marler, M Botha, P Dowson, L Dickson, O Farrell, B Barritt.

Lancaster said: “I am really pleased for Alex [Goode]. He has worked hard in training and has been pushing Mike Brown and Ben Foden close so we are looking forward to him bringing his footballing skills to this Test. Danny Care likewise has bided his time in a very competitive position, knuckled down and deserves his chance, as has James Haskell, who has played this season for the Highlanders at No 7.

“We felt that the pack got some momentum in the second half last week so we have gone for Alex [Corbisiero] and Tom [Palmer], but I am sure Joe Marler and Mo Botha can make an impact from the bench.

“The guys did the shirt proud in Potchefstroom on Tuesday and I have no doubt that the 22 involved on Saturday will rise to this final challenge as we look to end this almost 12-month season on a high.”

South Africa

Gio Aplon, JP Pietersen, Jean de Villiers, Wynand Olivier, Bryan Habana, Morne Steyn, Francois Hougaard; Tendai Mtawarira, Bismarck du Plessis, Jannie du Plessis, Eben Etzebeth, Juandre Kruger, Marcell Coetzee, Jaques Potgieter, Pierre Spies

Replacements: Adriaan Strauss, Werner Kruger, Flip van der Merwe, Ryan Kankowski, Ruan Pienaar, Elton Jantjies, Bjorn Basson

Looking at this team it loses a lot of physicality.

Comparing a first choice backrow of Schalk Burger, Juan smith and Willem Alberts to Jaque Potgieter, Marcell Coetzee and Pierre Spies it is clear that South Africa will have to play wider and take less contact in the ruck situation, if not England will easily be able to dominate the contest at the breakdown.

Looking at the midfield combination of Frans Steyn and Jean de Villiers compared to Wynand Olivier and Jean de Villiers it will be far inferior due to no creativity at all between the two midfielders, but also no kicking out of hand and defensively Olivier is weak.

Aplon at the back does add some creativity at 15, yet even though he is as gutsy as hell at 75 kg, he will be targeted by big runners.

All in all this will be a litmus test for this Bok team. One I sincerely hope they pass.

Problem is looking at the players out of this match be it injuries weddings etc. not having Coenie Oosthuizen, Andries Bekker, Willem Alberts, Schalk Burger, Juan Smith, Frans Steyn and Patrick Lambie makes this a decidedly easier test for England.

by timhen Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:02 pm

I want to see Haskell offering himself up a lot more in the 2nd half, Lancaster put faith in him despite his midweek performance and a player of his experience needs to front up.

I also want to see some moves with Tuilagi making runs backed up by the front row or dummies to him that give the outside backs some space to work with.

by Hood83 Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:03 pm

Knackeredknees wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Lets be honest once SA woke up on 20 minutes its been one way traffic. England couldve had 8 more points early on, without them I cant see them doing better than keeping the game tight....but theyll have to get some attacking threat back in their game to even do that.
dont want to blame it on OF coming on solely but they havent had anything to offer with the ball since then...partly down to SA being much more aggressive and having much more of the ball and territory

But that little fact won't stop all those desperate to put the boot into him

I doubt it will change the minds of those desperate to have him play irrespective of how average his form is.

by nathan Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:04 pm

nathan wrote:
Knackeredknees wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Lets be honest once SA woke up on 20 minutes its been one way traffic. England couldve had 8 more points early on, without them I cant see them doing better than keeping the game tight....but theyll have to get some attacking threat back in their game to even do that.
dont want to blame it on OF coming on solely but they havent had anything to offer with the ball since then...partly down to SA being much more aggressive and having much more of the ball and territory

But that little fact won't stop all those desperate to put the boot into him

to be fair, he deserve's criticism as all players do when playing to their best. Nothing to say he won't improve though.

like his kicking...

by timhen Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:05 pm

My god, the kicking game is gash!

by timhen Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:05 pm

Now that's a better kick chase

by nathan Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:05 pm

lovely Ashton#!

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:05 pm

Spies is pretty weak.. Foden just threw him into touch.

by EnglishReign Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:05 pm

What a hit, son!

by thebluesmancometh Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:05 pm

WOW

Ashton where did that come from?Aplon is a small boy but what a timed hit that is!!!

by welshy6 Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:07 pm

timhen wrote:I want to see Haskell offering himself up a lot more in the 2nd half, Lancaster put faith in him despite his midweek performance and a player of his experience needs to front up.

I also want to see some moves with Tuilagi making runs backed up by the front row or dummies to him that give the outside backs some space to work with.

i want to see haskell get smashed.
sorry him and ashton are my least favourite players along with pocock (grrr) and genia
but fair play england doing ok so far, if you are going to lose though make sure its by more than a point as its very irritating!!!

by nathan Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:08 pm

knock on by SA!

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:10 pm

I really like Coetzee. He seems to offer a lot of continuity and pace at flanker. He has a big future with SA.

by trebellbobaggins Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:10 pm

I think that tackle was Englands high point of the series. Very good.

At least they are in this but I just can't see any way to beat sa here.

by nathan Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:10 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:I think that tackle was Englands high point of the series. Very good.

At least they are in this but I just can't see any way to beat sa here.

With Walsh reffing it could be anyone's game!

by nathan Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:13 pm

Was that SA player allowed to play the ball whilst laying on the floor?

by thebluesmancometh Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:13 pm

Walsh that is a poor yellow, noone was on the deck with the ball, it was anyones, Hartleys on his feet and when he loses his feet goes down behind the ball!!

I'm not having that!

by welshy6 Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:13 pm

thats a bit harsh as there was a knock on there, but if that didnt happen then deserved yellow

by timhen Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:14 pm

Argh, sloppy discipline back again.

Too many penalties in the last 10.

by Hood83 Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:14 pm

REally Walsh, really?

by stormers1 Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:15 pm

Did Walsh just miss 2 knock ons and ended up carding Hartley??

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:15 pm

It was a yellow. From the replay, Hartley knew what he was doing.

by nathan Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:16 pm

Walsh call's a not straight line out. He's learning!!

by welshy6 Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:17 pm

yeh it was a yellow i totally agree but there was an sa knock before

by thebluesmancometh Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:17 pm

Rory I disagree.

There was no ruck, the ball was yards behind the player on the ground, and there were Englishmen beyond it, Hartley has the right to drop on the ball as IMO it was out.

by trebellbobaggins Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:17 pm

Walsh went yellow quickly there.

You have to know he will do you if you are away and he is the ref unless you are perfect.

by Knackeredknees Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:18 pm

Well what a suprise ignore the knock on by both sides then make the wrong call to screw England, lucky we won the line out

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:19 pm

There were two knock ons, but it was certainly infringement at the ruck. Bluesman, how on earth was that not a ruck?

Not to mention the fact he wasn't on his feet..

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:19 pm

Plus I think it was a yellow, England (especially Haskell) have been pretty cynical at the breakdown.

by nathan Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:20 pm

how is that brilliant tackle, he came in with his shoulder¬!!

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:21 pm

nathan wrote:how is that brilliant tackle, he came in with his shoulder¬!!

He clearly used his arms..

by nathan Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:22 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
nathan wrote:how is that brilliant tackle, he came in with his shoulder¬!!

He clearly used his arms..

one of them did, the other didnt.

by trebellbobaggins Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:24 pm

Dear god. We win it and then be pinged right away again. Nigthmare to watch.

Just not winnable is it,

by Hood83 Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:25 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
nathan wrote:how is that brilliant tackle, he came in with his shoulder¬!!

He clearly used his arms..

He made no attempt to wrap with his left arm, might have been his teammate got in the way though.

by nathan Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:25 pm

GRRRR! why rush out of the line like that!

i take that back.

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:25 pm

One thing is certain.. Walsh doesn't understand what offside is..

by trebellbobaggins Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:26 pm

Oh god Peterson In the right place and a missed tackle again. Makes hm look good for doing nothing. We don't need to make it easy for them.

by EnglishReign Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:26 pm

Can't we send Hartley back off? We're better with 14

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:27 pm

What is the point in Steyn starting at 10 when he can't get the scoreboard moving? There are better options.

by Knackeredknees Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:28 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:One thing is certain.. Walsh doesn't understand what offside is..

He does know it, it's wherever a SA player tells him it is

by maestegmafia Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:28 pm

What happened?

Score 14-11.

I'm reading BBC live text. England were winning. There were some scrums...!

by nathan Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:29 pm

really, what's the point in kicking like that

by thebluesmancometh Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:29 pm

There is a common theme with the refs on these tours, the SH teams play to their bias so much better!

by trebellbobaggins Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:29 pm

Sa walking all over England now. It was bound of happen.

Can we develop this team? Hope so. Ideally Without this ref. How this guy got to ref England so much is hard to know with his past history,

by GLove39 Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:30 pm

When did Morne Steyn forget how to goal kick? 11 points at goal missed today

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:30 pm

Knackeredknees wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:One thing is certain.. Walsh doesn't understand what offside is..

He does know it, it's wherever a SA player tells him it is

He has been just as bad for both sides, enough with the asinine comments about the referee.

Flip me, these forums love to whine about the referee these days.

by EnglishReign Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:30 pm

Christ, Walsh didn't even see that knock on. Thanks Nigel

by nathan Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:30 pm

maestegmafia wrote:What happened?

Score 14-11.

I'm reading BBC live text. England were winning. There were some scrums...!

Walsh if reffing, should explain the game. He's been useless for both teams.

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:30 pm

Once again, Cole is an immense breakdown operator. Very handy player.

by **Pal Joey** Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:31 pm

plus 20 in the last 2 matches... so 31 points missed. Erm

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:32 pm

Also Ashton is showing just why he is so dangerous at times. He needs to be used more. He hasn't very much space though.

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