Cleverly opponent for October 15th

Over on boxingscene:

http://www.boxingscene.com/cleverly-vs-simcic-play-cardiffs-motorpoint-oct--56518

Should put a lot of minds to rest, and calm those worries that the fearless one was going to face anything other than a top class opponent. His opponent has only one loss and has even beaten one Tomas Adamek. No, not Chad Dawson...

Cleverly is officially the biggest joke in boxing right now.

is anybody even slightly surprised? i wonder if he will still spend the whole build up saying he wants hopkins or has he got bigger fish to fry now bhop has lost

Melkor wrote:Cleverly is officially the biggest joke in boxing right now.

Just about sums it up. I'm boycotting Cleverly until he fights someone of note. Got a strong feeling that he'll get found out when/if he does.

I love that he has a win against "Tomas Adamek" on his record. It turns out however it was against some Kossak electrician... or something.

2 fights in 1 year for a young Champion, one against a nurse and another against this guy.

Cleverly is our answer to JCC Jr. (without the drug use or exciting future fight).

Who else went on Boxrec to see who this guy is?

Really hope this fight doesn't happen, terrible opponent.

Great this means I will have to spend the next three months cleaning up threads blaming Cleverly for everything from the decline in boxings popularity to the great fire of London. There really is no such thing as a victimless crime.

Can't think of a better man for the job though, Jeff. You are true inspiration to us all!!

Great comment on boxing rec though: -

18 more of these and he ties the great Joe Calzaghe

As I have said on countless occasions struggle to imagine anyone is surprised by this. Warren has a long established way of operating, if a fighter is decent or likely to leave him he will deliver big fights as he did for Hatton and Khan when they started grumbling. If a fighter is seemingly happy to trot along fighting guff that is what Warren will deliver because eventually they will earn a level of kudos and respect just on sheer bloody longevity, eventually that fighter will have made enough money to be let off the leash and by that point they will have either gained enough experience to win against top guys or will have made Frank enough money that it does not matter if they lose.

Given Nathan is off limited talent and even more limited personality or marketability I am amazed that anyone would think the tried and tested business model would change for him. I am equally amazed anyone gets wound up by it, my view on Nathan is wake me up when he fights someone, and will remain as such.

Joke of a fight for a world belt. Personally (as rowley said above and stealing my thunder again) the blame - most of it - should be levelled at Warren. He chooses the fights and I doubt if Cleverley can demand anything. He has zero marketability and cannot hold Warren to ransom. If he decides to leave Warren will let him go quickly.

I just don't get it, where is the pride of fighting genuine top level fighters, or does Cleverly quite simply have none?

Nothing to do with pride. Warren has zero confidence in him and will not match him with anyone above lower euro standard. Warren will probably call out Hoppo for Clev in 3 years time and claim Hop ducked him.

That claim would seem only mildly silly in comparison to Warren's famous proclamation that Haye ducked Matt Skelton a few years back, Az.

Whilst I totally agree with that assessment Azania, the likes of Froch etc. I struggle to believe would not at least genuinely TRY to get the best in the ring and show a bit of pride in terms of being unhappy with Warren feeding him tomato cans. He's just happy to sit there and take it.

Then there's the lies that he comes out with "Karpency was my toughest fight" Get out of it, what utter tosh, the man laid on the ropes for 12 rounds in an absolute mismatch against a male nurse. Bellew and Murat were clearly tougher fights, but he's clearly happy to just milk his "title" almost in the same mirth as the likes of Povetkin. To me, it's a disgrace and whilst a fair amount of the blame should be lying in Warren's corner, to me, it's impossible to not throw at least some portion of the blame in Cleverly's corner.

It is a difficult one Alex because fighters in the past such as Hatton and Khan have proven that if you should some displeasure with your career path you can secure better opponents but they are in a slightly different position to Nathan in that both had marketability, profile and a fan base, they also could be confident if they did choose or threaten to leave Frank they would have no shortage of promoters willing to take them on. Couple that with the confidence they would be able to compete in a higher level which perhaps Nathan does not have yet and whilst you would like to think Nathan is unhappy about this his circumstances and opportunities to make a stand are a little less strong than those that have gone before him.

rowley wrote:Great this means I will have to spend the next three months cleaning up threads blaming Cleverly for everything from the decline in boxings popularity to the great fire of London. There really is no such thing as a victimless crime.

azania wrote:Joke of a fight for a world belt. Personally (as rowley said above and stealing my thunder again) the blame - most of it - should be levelled at Warren. He chooses the fights and I doubt if Cleverley can demand anything. He has zero marketability and cannot hold Warren to ransom. If he decides to leave Warren will let him go quickly.

I think that's putting an Az spin on Rowley's post.

Warren is indeed the one shouldering most of the blame as the guy actually arranging fights, but Rowley specifically uses Hatton and Khan as examples of where a boxer genuinely presses Warren for better/tougher fights and gets them. Yes Hatton was eminently more marketable and Khan had more potential of defecting, but the point is nobody believes Nathan is genuinely pushing for tougher fights.

As a result he'll hide behind Warren, and the fact this chump is ranked #3 by the WBO (despite being #68 on boxrec), and pick up his cheque. Bellew would've been a better match up than this ffs.

rowley wrote:It is a difficult one Alex because fighters in the past such as Hatton and Khan have proven that if you should some displeasure with your career path you can secure better opponents but they are in a slightly different position to Nathan in that both had marketability, profile and a fan base, they also could be confident if they did choose or threaten to leave Frank they would have no shortage of promoters willing to take them on. Couple that with the confidence they would be able to compete in a higher level which perhaps Nathan does not have yet and whilst you would like to think Nathan is unhappy about this his circumstances and opportunities to make a stand are a little less strong than those that have gone before him.

Extremely fair response and an angle I neglected Rowley. That said, I would presume that let's say for example Matchroom would be more than willing to add a relatively well known British boxer that holds a world title and would genuinely give him decent match ups if he decided to actually start making waves with Warren that is a clear route he could go down. Then again, I suppose you just need to look at James Degale and worry a little at what your future could be like standing up to Warren.

His fight with Bellew showed he isnt ready for the best in the division. He needs more experience. He doesnt have the drawing power or the talent to be fast tracked either. I think he will have to be taken along quite slowly.

manos de piedra wrote:His fight with Bellew showed he isnt ready for the best in the division. He needs more experience. He doesnt have the drawing power or the talent to be fast tracked either. I think he will have to be taken along quite slowly.

Which sadly is the reason he shouldn't be holding a world title.

It doesnt really bother me to much that he holds a title. With 4 world titles per weight its inneviteable there will be fighters holding titles that are not the best in the division. Its the fault of the governing bodies and the sport itself to allow a scenario like that to emerge.

manos de piedra wrote:It doesnt really bother me to much that he holds a title. With 4 world titles per weight its inneviteable there will be fighters holding titles that are not the best in the division. Its the fault of the governing bodies and the sport itself to allow a scenario like that to emerge.

Agree partially, but it perhaps doesn't bother you, but it annoys me. When I try to talk about boxing with casuals (On the rare occassion it does happen) it infuriates me when they believe certain things that are SO not true it's beyond belief and makes a mockery of the sport.

manos de piedra wrote: Its the fault of the governing bodies and the sport itself to allow a scenario like that to emerge.

Think this is the reason I found myself defending Clev last time round, people were speaking as if Cleverly was killing boxing single handedly, he is not exactly rescuing it but is a product of the system no more, my opinion is our fury would be better directed at the system that allows four governing bodies, because if you remove that if Clev or any other fighter wants to call themselves world champion they have to beat the best in their division to do so.

The situation bothers me, but not really the individual fighter. The WBO in their infinite wisdom rated Cleverly as the most qualified opponent to fight for their title, so I blame them far more. The idea that to hold a world title means you have to fight te best should only matter if the world title means something to begin with. Nowadays it doesnt, they have all lost their credibility so why should fans put any stock in their meaningless titles?

rowley wrote:

manos de piedra wrote: Its the fault of the governing bodies and the sport itself to allow a scenario like that to emerge.

Think this is the reason I found myself defending Clev last time round, people were speaking as if Cleverly was killing boxing single handedly, he is not exactly rescuing it but is a product of the system no more, my opinion is our fury would be better directed at the system that allows four governing bodies, because if you remove that if Clev or any other fighter wants to call themselves world champion they have to beat the best in their division to do so.

The WBC seem to have an active policy of discouraging this as they will strip you for fighting other champions, or for no reason if they decide they like another fighter more. You can normally be compensated by a newly created diamond or silver belt though.

manos de piedra wrote:

rowley wrote:

manos de piedra wrote: Its the fault of the governing bodies and the sport itself to allow a scenario like that to emerge.

Think this is the reason I found myself defending Clev last time round, people were speaking as if Cleverly was killing boxing single handedly, he is not exactly rescuing it but is a product of the system no more, my opinion is our fury would be better directed at the system that allows four governing bodies, because if you remove that if Clev or any other fighter wants to call themselves world champion they have to beat the best in their division to do so.

The WBC seem to have an active policy of discouraging this as they will strip you for fighting other champions, or for no reason if they decide they like another fighter more. You can normally be compensated by a newly created diamond or silver belt though.

Haven't they just allowed this policy to splip with someone though? Can't remember who it was but it basically seemed they'd rather the publicity of such a big name holding their belt than strip him for fighting someone ranked by another body?

I hope they have. They stripped Ward recently but then reinstated him after their number 1 guy Dirrell got injured. I think Danny Garcia holds the WBA/WBC at the moment also. They also stripped Nishioka recently enough for reasons Im not sure of of but I suspect because they wanted a Mexican champion.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:His fight with Bellew showed he isnt ready for the best in the division. He needs more experience. He doesnt have the drawing power or the talent to be fast tracked either. I think he will have to be taken along quite slowly.

Which sadly is the reason he shouldn't be holding a world title.

Exactly. If he's not ready then he shouldn't hold the title.

What I can't understand is how he gets away with fighting these guys continually. I mean, shouldn't he be made to fight someone with a high contender status or risk being stripped? How can someone be allowed to hold a world title to ransom in this manner?

According to the WBO, the guy he is fighting next is the 4th best light heavyweight in the world. So that kind of puts in perspective the credibility of the title and the organisation it represents. As fans, I think there is no point in attaching any significance to it. Cleverly is the WBO world chmpion for what it is worth, which is very little. His only obligation is to fight opponents that they approve. If the title isnt credible in the first place then what use is it for fans to attach any to it? If anything its the very world title itself that is giving Cleverly licence to fight these guys because the WBO are the ones ranking them.

The sad fact is Cleverly is the WBO world champion, this guy is ranked either 3rd or 4th by the WBO so, as far as Warren is concerned (or as far as his marketing is concerned) this guy is a genuine WBO/world ranked contender. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying he is, but it's all about how they can market the fight. Casual fans can be lured into him being a genuine contender that's for sure.

As already mentioned, they'll both milk the WBO strap for as long as humanly possible until they have to face a live contender, but up until that point... expect more of the same.

Yahoo sports described Clev as one of the top 5 paper champions. Very true. But his route is not unique. Many current belt holders have been gifted belts when matched against plodders who aren't even the best in their house.

Personally I dont give belts much credibility. I just want to see good fights. The belt is incidental.

Does Clev not have to fight his mandatory?

Funnily enough, if Cleverly were to say he was fighting Yusaf Mack (who we're all describing as an easy fight for Froch at 168) then it would probably be his toughest and most experienced opponent to date!

Froch and Cleverly are rightly held to different standards. One has proven himself world class, the other hasn't. We have been spolit with Froch and now expect so much better from him. Cleverly continues to meet expectations!

azania wrote:Yahoo sports described Clev as one of the top 5 paper champions. Very true. But his route is not unique. Many current belt holders have been gifted belts when matched against plodders who aren't even the best in their house.

Personally I dont give belts much credibility. I just want to see good fights. The belt is incidental.

Think Paulie's inclusion is a little harsh...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/boxings-5-most-obvious-paper-champs-fans-071800932--box.html

Still haven't ever seen a LIVE fight and Cardiff is right next door. I won't be paying for this mismatch!

Number 68 in the world

But he's number one in Slovenia .... out of one

bhb001 wrote:Froch and Cleverly are rightly held to different standards. One has proven himself world class, the other hasn't. We have been spolit with Froch and now expect so much better from him. Cleverly continues to meet expectations!

Think you best speak to Gordy about that statement.....However for Cleverly to be allowed to continue to fight such poor opponents says more about the state of boxing than anything else. I'm no boxing expert by any means but I do love the sport which I feel is being crippled by all the blood suckers, mis matches and poor results recently. A "champion" should be just that which means defending that title against the best out there...but alas it's not and I can't see it being that way for a long time to come.

I fully accept and understand that Cleverly's predicament is a symptom of the greater problems in boxing rather than the root of them, but I don't think he should be totally sheltered from criticism of yet another disappointing title defence because of this.

Of course, nobody expected the likes of the 175 lb elite (Hopkins and the like). Truth be told, I doubt that many people expected a unification against the profoundly average Shumenov, either. But honestly, would it have hurt to take on, shock horror, the WBO number one contender / mandatory rather than the number four? Would it have been too much to ask that Cleverly defend his title against someone who is at least established in the twelve round class, rather than having only just graduated in to it one fight ago?

Even allowing for fighters being fast tracked to fragmented versions of so-called 'world titles' and the questionable contender lists each body puts forward, Cleverly's run of defences has been shocking; Kuziemski, Bellew, Karpency and now Simcic.

If the general feeling is that he should be spared criticism for not fighting the likes of Hopkins, Dawson, Pascal etc as he's young and inexperienced regardless of whether he holds a belt or not, then I'd agree. But seriously, are we to believe that Simcic was the best option available? The line of "well, it's not his fault there are so many belts about or that he got one so early" can only stretch so far, I'm afraid.

Chris should perhaps clarify I am in no way absolving Cleverly from blame, my issue was and is that I feel the reaction we had to endure last time was completely disproportionate, got to the point where he was being excluded from lists of top ten Brits and you could genuinely get the feeling boxing was broke and Cleverly had broken it single handedly. However I would agree that there is enough gap between the elite and what is actually being delivered to mean a level of criticism is fair.

However I think the problem is Warren knows Cleverly is either just not that good or has not really shown the improvements many expected when he completed his studies and so Frank is petrified of moving a guy who labored against an inexperienced domestic level fighter like Bellew up in anything other than baby steps.

88Chris05 wrote:I fully accept and understand that Cleverly's predicament is a symptom of the greater problems in boxing rather than the root of them, but I don't think he should be totally sheltered from criticism of yet another disappointing title defence because of this.

Of course, nobody expected the likes of the 175 lb elite (Hopkins and the like). Truth be told, I doubt that many people expected a unification against the profoundly average Shumenov, either. But honestly, would it have hurt to take on, shock horror, the WBO number one contender / mandatory rather than the number four? Would it have been too much to ask that Cleverly defend his title against someone who is at least established in the twelve round class, rather than having only just graduated in to it one fight ago?

Soulan Pownceby, Kiwi boxer ranked 88 in the world by boxrec

I don't mind him steering clear of the top guys for now but he should be taking learning fights not just racking up pointless defences against tomato cans. I'd rather see him in with a 200 year old Glen Johnson than the guy he is set to be fighting. Also I don't see how he was ready to fight Braehmer for the title 2 years ago who would comfortably be his best opponent but since that fell through the level of opposition has gone down considerably.

Oh I agree Jeff, and you're right insofar as some of the comments regarding Cleverly around the time of the Karpency fight were ridiculous. No doubt some will go over the top upon hearing this news, too.

But Christ alive, Cleverly doesn't half harm his own cause when he's forever mentioning the likes of Hopkins, Dawson and Shumenov between fights when really, deep down, I suspect he knows that this is the type of opponent who will be served up for the forseeable future.

Maybe he is going for JC's record, being massaged their like King tried to with Valuev.......

Quick question....does Cleverly deserve a shot at the big names in the division with who he has fought so far? Please disregard the title he holds

Its a poor fight alright. I dont know maybe this is doubling up as a mandatory defence? Wasnt he supposed to have a mandatory defence soon?

My issue is I just dont think a world title should automatically mean anything anymore or mean you have to fight the best simply because all the organisations count for little. A world title now is at best a reflection you are maybe top ten in the division but not a guaratee of anything more. Having said that, Cleverlys last few defences have been even by Euro level standard. This next guy isnt even rated top 25 or so in the Euro rankings (I assume he qualifies) which has guys like McKenzie and McIntosh in there. So its bad, very bad.

Ive been saying for a while thatI thought a Bellew rematch would have been a good option to take if Cleverly wasnt going to go after top ranked opponents. It would give a good idea of whether Cleverly has improved, it would provide a good test and it would definately get a bit of interest going for it after the first fight being a good close fight and there being genuine needle there. Looks like Bellew and Warren have split though so it probably wont be coming. Otherwise fighting the guy Braehmer he was originally supposed to fight or else the current European champ would be viable options. But it actually appears as if Warren has become even more cautious. I remember after Calzaghe scraped by Rei he did a similar thing and lined up some domestic fights against the McIntyres and Staries. Either that or he is really struggling to put fights together and needed someone just to fill a gap.

Yep this is a Joke alright.

Go on Simcic 'ave 'im!!

Can’t wait till gordy gets hold of this news, will only be a matter of time before we are told how Cleverly is a sky hype job and things were better in the golden age of the light heavies when giants like Mark Prince, Maurice Core and Nicky Piper bestrode the division.

Nathan Cleverly is not in the same league as Nicky Piper. You will all understand that Clev is a comlpete Sky hype job once he is KO.

P.s

Eubank, Benn, Watson and JC would all beat Clev with one glove ties behind their back.

Lots of Love

G

(Have I gone to far?)